Lynn Williams, Rose Lavelle added to list of Federation Players

The Equalizer Staff April 6, 2017 333
Lynn Williams will have her NWSL salary paid for US Soccer for the first time in 2017.

Lynn Williams will have her NWSL salary paid for US Soccer for the first time in 2017.

A day after the USWNT Players Association and US Soccer announced a new collective bargaining agreement, US Soccer and NWSL announced a list of 22 players who will play this season as Federation Players. Reigning MVP Lynn Williams and No. 1 overall pick Rose Lavelle were added to the list as was Casey Short. Allie Long is also marked as a new federation player although it is believed Long won a contract sometime in 2016. An NWSL spokesperson said Long is marked as new because she was not part of the initial list in 2016.

Sidney Leroux and Amy Rodriguez, both of whom missed 2016 after getting pregnant, are both on the list as federation players.

Dropping off this year’s list are Whitney Engen, Jaelene Hinkle, Heather O’Reilly, Christie Rampone, and Hope Solo. Engen and Hinkle were dropped from the team and Solo was suspended and had her contract terminated last summer. The suspension is over but Solo also had reconstructive shoulder surgery and told 60 Minutes on Sports she would probably not be ready to play again until the end of the year. O’Reilly and Rampone have retired from the national team thus giving up their place as Federation Players.

The Thorns have the most Federation Players with five. Long is joined by Tobin Heath, Lindsey Horan, Meghan Klingenberg, and Emily Sonnett. The Spirit are the only team with none.

The full list for 2017 is:
Boston Breakers: Rose Lavelle*
Chicago Red Stars: Julie (Johnston) Ertz, Alyssa Naeher, Christen Press and Casey Short*
Houston Dash: Morgan Brian and Carli Lloyd
FC Kansas City: Sydney Leroux, Amy Rodriguez and Becky Sauerbrunn
North Carolina Courage: Samantha Mewis and Lynn Williams*
Orlando Pride: Ashlyn Harris, Ali Krieger and Alex Morgan
Portland Thorns FC: Tobin Heath, Lindsey Horan, Meghan Klingenberg, Allie Long* and Emily Sonnett
Seattle Reign FC: Megan Rapinoe
Sky Blue FC: Kelley O’Hara
Washington Spirit: None

  • DNG

    The team seems to be a little light on center backs at the moment. Lots of center forwards though.

    • #1Fan

      its a truly amazing system, it really is

      • DNG

        It’s nuts. I count 9 central attacking players: Lloyd, Horan, Press, Morgan, Williams, Arod, Leroux, Lavelle, Brian. I understand that Lavelle and Brian will probably be played deeper but there is one b2b in Mewis and one tempo setter in Long and no true defensive midfielders. It really seems like the method of player selection is pick as many goal scorers as the team can hold and convert attacking midfielder to deeper roles. I give credit to Mewis, Long and Brian for performing reasonably well in those roles. Mewis seems like a pretty decent B2B mid and Long has been a pretty good deeper-lying tempo setter. Meanwhile only 3 CBs were allocated and only two of those have played significant minutes in the last 6 or so matches.

    • Silver Frost

      Yes, but they will all play on the wing, as per the Ellis system.

  • Scott

    How much money is Dunn getting from Chelsea?

    • washfan

      Not sure but she will take one of these NWSL allocations away from someone when she returns in 2018. I hear the NWSL allocation pay is going up. If she make same she is still probably happy because she is not playing for the Spirit this year where she didn’t want to be.

      • guest

        agree Dunn will be allocated when she returns to play in NWSL

        disagree that she will take away a slot from existing list of 22 allocation players. USSF has previously allocated up to 26 players so current 22 still allows for growth and adding additional allocated players.

        Dunn is currently on a tier 1 base contract with USWNT and was also previously an allocated/federation player so when she returns to play in NWSL she will also be an allocated/federation player.

  • Guest

    Williams, Short Long earned allocations.. Lavelle, Leroux, Rodriguez were handed them?

    • guest

      Pregnancy. And a very strategically planned “come bacK” by leroux. I suspect if they don’t perform this year, they will get dropped next year. I hope so anyway.

      • guest

        unless they get pregnant again which would hold their spots for another two years.

        • guest

          I think ARod planned her pregnancy the way she did for a reason. Timing worked out perfectly for her because she wasn’t making the OG squad and probably would have been Engen-ed during 2016. Now she gets to collect pay for at least one more year.

          • CED

            Bingo….Leroux is the same. They were both fringe and the end of the bench among the forwards.

    • TsovLoj

      Man, you can’t screw somebody over for getting pregnant. I’m totally okay with her retaining the slot. If she sucks this year and it gets pulled after that, that’s different.

      • Gary Diver

        Merit or Tenure?

        This is one of the problems with treating USWNT like a university tenure system.

        Is there any other women’s professional sports league (or situation) that is not merit/performance based? What other sport guarantees a woman athlete who takes time off to have a child to have her roster spot protected?

        Most basketball fans were shocked that Candace Parker was left off the OG16 US women’s basketball team. One of the most dominate American women’s sports teams does not have a tenure system and the fierce competition for slots make that team what it is – the world’s best.

        • guest

          Um, no women’s professional league can fire someone for being pregnant. Because they are all employers, and there are laws against that. USSF is an employer of the USWNT. Until that is not the case, they’re subject to the laws of the land, just like any other employer.

          Even the NCAA has rules like this around pregnancy: “Additionally, no athlete should lose her scholarship simply for becoming pregnant but, instead, presented with a standard amount of time to recover and meet her athletic benchmarks–as in the case of any other recovering athlete–as well as an extra year in which to meet her academic obligations.”

          • #1Fan

            look as soon as the federation EMPLOYS players, thee things are going to happen.

      • guest

        leroux had her kid over six months ago

      • guest

        leroux should have her club spot reserved not a national team spot. national team spots should be pay to play just like the usmnt who don’t get any paternity to hold their spots for two years.

        • brah say what

          Brah, paternity to hold their spot? You do understand that being pregnant and giving birth is a medical condition right? Leroux has mentioned online that her abdominal muscles ripped as part of being pregnant. Without alarming your no doubt delicate masculine sensitivities, giving birth often involves bleeding and lots of stitches, either from a C-section (which is a surgery) or from ripping that happens in places you really don’t want ripping to happen. Not to mention hormonal changes and milk production and more. There’s a reason when people come back from pregnancy quickly they are touted as superhuman.

          • AlexH

            In what sport do you get to hold your roster spot if your abdominal muscles get ripped apart? If a player gets pregnant they should get paid for the remainder of their contract and get some severance that includes medical insurance for the balance of their pregnancy and a bit beyond and then earn their spot back on the team.
            MNT players don’t get to automatically come back after a medical condition, they have to prove they can play first. It’s not fair but that’s sports. People that aren’t willing to accept that risk should go work for the Post Office.

          • #1Fan

            I understand your point, but its wrong. The USSF employ the players. so they have to abide by certain contract laws. In a regular job, maternity leave and terms are covered. No equivalent provision exists for men. MNT players are employed By Clubs and abide by different rules and contracts.

          • AlexH

            Then don’t “employ” them. Hire them as contractors or something. At the end of the day sports isn’t a “regular job” it’s a zero sum game. I’m all for the players getting more money and benefits but not at the expense of the quality of the team. The WNT exists to win and everything else needs to be put into that context.

          • #1Fan

            that is a different issue and one I agree with, BUT not employing them would probably mean the NWSL would fail. Your most desirable players would go abroad, Clubs would only release them in FIFA windows and this camp to camp dynamic would change. The ability to market them on social media would change. It would be a market driven dynamic.

            The USSF is petrified of that. The US soccer bubble would burst.

            Real talent would get paid commensurate with value, bu the USSF would not be artificially pumping up the mkt like they are now.
            Im guessing Lynn Williams will be one of the highest paid strikers in the womens game and yet where does she rate in world terms?

          • AlexH

            I get that, but I think that there can be a happy medium that allows the NWSL to exist but still allows the WNT to field the best team possible.
            I’m no lawyer but I believe that the collective bargaining process allows for wiggle room with the labor laws. For example the NFL and NBA can ban adults under a certain age from playing which would be illegal if they were a non union business and just did it themselves.
            My hunch is that the pregnancy clause is a nod to tenure rather than women’s rights and could be modified if both sides wanted to do it. After all if it were just a matter of law why bother putting it into the agreement to begin with?

          • #1Fan

            of course it is. Those terms were proposed by women for women. a situation that rarely occurs. The leverage is there and the USSF has to agree to it in a world where we are positively discriminatingto pay for the past.

          • AlexH

            I find it ironic though that the victims of positively discriminating to pay for the past are other women.

          • #1Fan

            I agree. thats the joke. The Equal pay slogan was so awful given THEIR OWN SISTERS were receiving far less for the same work in the NWSL.

            All this was, is an example of the privileged few WITH leverage, using it to get a better deal. I have no problem with it, but the characterization of it being this victory for womanhood is hilarious

          • guest

            Well, first of all, plenty of players have their roster spots held when they are hurt – presumably as a sports fan you see examples of this every day. It’s the right thing to do, and a club would have a hard time attracting and retaining players if they got cut as soon as they got injured.

            Second, I hope we can agree that bearing human life is a bit different than tearing a muscle. I suppose we could tell pregnant players they can either get an abortion or retain their job and be able to pay for things, but my guess is that would be rather unpopular for obvious reasons….

          • CED

            A team will not hold a roster spot for someone who is out of contract that is injured. That’s what this case amounts to. Her contract was for allocation in 2016, she missed the entire year, they still paid her. That’s what any team is obligated to do under the contract. She should be guaranteed nothing for 2017 b/c she is out of contract technically.

          • guest

            the uswnt players should have their nwsl club spots held for them not national team spots. just like it works for the usmnt. the uswnt should not be treated like a club team. there should be equal opportunity based on performance.

        • guest2

          re ” leroux should have her club spot reserved ”
          allocation/federation subsidized player is her club spot

          Leroux has not yet returned to (or been called up for ) national team USWNT
          once Leroux does return to national team from pregnancy leave (under terms of old CBA) she would be back at same (pre pregnancy) tier level for at least 3 months.

          • guest

            lerous’s pregnancy was completed over six months ago. of course she didn’t come back yet. she is not going to risk losing her spot. she is waiting for the new usnwt allocations for 2017 first.

    • Guest

      Lavelle has been in camp with WNT for a year now. Obviously she would not have gotten a spot if she was doing poorly and she would not continue to be called in if she wasn’t doing well

  • Guest1

    Someone tell me why Sydney Leroux is allocated?
    What did she do earn this.

    • guest

      Pregnancy. Someone tell me what Rapinoe did to earn this other than lie about her fitness and not even dress for any of the post-OG friendlies because she couldn’t keep up. Truly insulting to the league players.

      • ABCDE

        They aren’t going to lose against Russia but I want them to.

  • AlexH

    So does anybody know how much freedom Jill has to call up players that are not on “The List”?
    Inquiring minds want to know but it seems that nobody on the inside wants to talk about pesky little details like the ways in which this new CBA allows/prevents the USA from fielding the strongest team possible.

    • Bruce

      There are no published reports that speak to this level of detail yet, AFAIK. I’d expect that the limitations have as much to do with budget (for camp/roster bonuses and associated costs) as much as anything.

      • AlexH

        True, but somebody could commit a random act of journalism and actually ask.

        • #1Fan

          its a Club. no journo benefits form angering the Club .

          • AlexH

            Well so much for the noble 4th estate bravely pursuing truth and letting the chips fall where they may 🙂

      • kernel_thai

        Supposedly the number of floater call ins were increased in the new CBA so Ellis could call more floater to this new limit. It’s a moot point IMO. It sticks in my mind that the old limit was like 8. How many times r u going to remove more than 8 player u r already paying under contract and replace them with 8 new player u have to pay additional money to? This was just lip service to a bigger problem.

    • CED

      The same stupid system exists which discourages new people to be called in. It makes little economic sense to call in players when they have to pay the allocated players regardless if they play or not. It’s evenn more so now with higher guaranteed salaries. Thus, there will be few new call in of NWSL players, What you will see is call in of college players or U players b/c they don’t have to paid…ie… Sophia Smith and Pinto. They did it with Pugh. She only got a chance in reality b/c of injuries and pregnancies. When Pugh “stuck” it cost them nothing, if they had called in a NWSL player the same time as Pugh, that stuck it would have cost USSF 2 roster bonuses, the floater fee, they would have maxed out the floater days early in 2016 which means they would have had to offer a contract….some total it would have cost them 100K or more.

  • Gary Diver

    Rose Lavelle

    Could someone compare Rose Lavelle soccer income this year with and without Tier I allocation contract. Is the promotion worth a 100% in income?

    • Rdalford

      USWNT base contracts had three levels (Tier 1 $72k, Tier 2 $51k, Tier 3 $36k) under old CBA/MOU. NYT report on new CBA mentions approx 30% increase. The full details of new CBA have not been published
      but IF we assume that the new CBA also has multiple tiers, then Rose as a newly contracted player would most likely start at lower tier ( not Tier 1 ).
      My assumption Rose may well start as tier#3 at $36k X 1.3 = approx $46.8k or perhaps tier#2 at $51k X 1.3 = approx 66.3K for the base USWNT contract

      The allocated/federation player amounts for playing in NWSL are separate from in addition to the base USWNT contract amounts. Under old CBA/MOU these allocated/federation amounts for 2016 were $56k (for USWNT players in original 2013 group like Lloyd etc) or $46 (for USWNT players who became contract/allocated players after initial 2013 group). The NYT article is not clear if the 30% increase also applies to NWSL allocated/federation players amount. Using 30% increase then $46K would become approx $59.8K
      So my assumption (using 30% increase) would be that Rose might receive approx $60k as allocated/federation player.

      NWSL roster rules for 2017 have not (yet) been made public, but under old 2016 NWSL roster rules the max player salary was $39.7K
      Even as first round draft pick it is unlikely that Breakers signed Rose at the max player salary. My guess would be Breakers signed Rose for approx $30K

      Given all the IF’s (30% increase estimates based on NYT reports) and assumptions/guesses listed above it seems likely to me that NWSL salary situation for Rose MIGHT be approx $30k in not allocated and approx $60k as an allocated/federation NWSL player.

      Plus base USWNT tier x (my guess tier 2 $66.3K or tier 3 $46.8K) contract

    • kernel_thai

      Why would u give her a tier 1 contract? I would guess tier 3.

  • guest

    megan rapinoe get’s allocated for doing what? the uswnt corruption continues.

    • guest

      the uswnt doesn’t require it’s players to be in soccer shape before allocation again.

  • Gary Diver

    Isn’t one effect of the new CBA to make the income inequality gap between USWNT players and non-USWNT NWSL players much greater than it is already?

    “Allie Long is also marked as a new federation player although it is believed Long won a contract sometime in 2016.”

    I love the word “won”. How does one “win” Jill Ellis’ favor?

    So isn’t Jill Ellis in essence a GM who unilaterally determines who gets tenure and a guaranteed fat income 2 to 3 times the income of other NWSL players? Deciding who plays on her roster is one thing, deciding who has a super-guaranteed, super-lucrative contract putting them in a different universe from their NWSL fellow players, is other thing.

    Matthew effect: Those who have, get more; and those who have not get relatively less.

    • #1Fan

      2 3 times ? .. more lkike 4 to 20x

      • Gary Diver

        It is difficult to explain in words how bad and how unfair this system is for everybody except the “anointed few”.

        • #1Fan

          Is the system bad, yes. But i also think you have just as big of an issue with who is doing the anointing.

          • mockmook

            I certainly am biased by who the annointers are.

            But, even if it were the greatest talent evaluators, I would still see an unfairness in the system’s structure — too much stagnation due to the contracts.

          • #1Fan

            I agree. Maybe Im just paying more attention, but Ellis really has no clue and half decent GK saves that

            I like Aly Wags , but my goodness does she bend the truth. Shot at GK is now a clinical finish . LOL

        • CED

          What’s amazing is the stupidity has been perpetuated and even more ingrained. The general public applauds this entitlement and money grab, as well as the media, even sports media that knows better.

    • Rdalford

      re “Allie Long is also marked as a new federation player although it is believed Long won a contract sometime in 2016.”

      under my understanding of terms of old CBA,
      once Allie Long was named to the USWNT roster for 2016 OG then she would have been placed on tier #1 contract
      “Any player on the Olympic roster in 2016 will be a Tier 1 player (effective following pay period upon being named to the roster) if offered a contract”
      (old CBA/MOU wording in quotes)

      Engen who was also on OG roster is the counter example,
      Engen was not offered a contract for 2017

    • HOFCToDi

      Jill Ellis doesn’t get it.

      Manchester City Downed: 4/5/17

      player.fm/series/espn-fc-1203986/manchester-city-downed-4517

      2:49

    • HOFCToDi

      Since when has altruism been a characteristic of the USWNTPA?

    • Lorehead

      Remember, the NWSL salary cap also went up this year. However, the one really indefensible term of the last contract was not the one that said women with no clubs to fall back on got some minimal job security. It’s the one that said US Soccer would ensure that every member of the USWNT would get paid more than any other player in the NWSL and US Soccer would ensure the gap wouldn’t close.

  • AlexH

    I don’ think Williams or Lavelle did enough to deserve a ticket on the gravy train. RL has a lot of promise but she has only played in a few matches and LW had a great start against tomato cans and sort of petered out. I think both are good players and very well may be great but they aren’t all that now and it is a slap in the face to lots of other players who may be just as good or better that they have to continue fighting for crumbs.

    • #1Fan

      Lynn Williams is the most surprising to me. Maybe im missing something. I get the fact tht she is an elite athlete, but the player I have seen is well short of the quality I would expect of an International striker.

      I read a comment from Lavelle where she said players get noticed for their strengths. I agree. It seems being big, strong and fast IS currently enough to get noticed AND get a contract in spite of what is being told to youth players.

      I guess the conclusion is those traits have to be elite level, because those are LWs strengths.

      • AlexH

        It just underscores the stupidity of the system because it is impossible to truly determine who is the last one in and the first one out without the freedom to freely insert and remove players from the roster, and the clique system largely precludes that from happening.

        • #1Fan

          i am not saying this to elevate Sophie Smith, but I think she can replicate what LW does.

          • AlexH

            Well we probably won’t find out if you are right or wrong in any meaningful way. I would love to se SS and a whole lot of others get their chance to prove that they are better than LW during the next 1.5 years when absolutely nothing is at stake. Oh well…

          • #1Fan

            i think they will.

          • CED

            I posted about Smiths long ago when discussing the lack of good young MF’s in U system while several great forward prospects. Smith is younger than Pugh was when she first came in to camps last year. Won’t likely see Smith b/c unlike Pugh, who got a chance b/c of injuries, maternity leave, etc…those conditions no longer exist. Ellis will keep calling up Arod and Leroux, now Williams is in the mix who has never impresses IMO.

          • #1Fan

            There are several Smiths in the Youth system, becasue we glorify that skill set.

          • CED

            Sophia Smith. She has been tearing it up at all level of U system U-17, U-20, U-23…each time they move her up she’s impressing. From the games I’ve seen I like her over Sanchez, who has been hyped. I liked smith more even before this spell of being brilliant.

          • #1Fan

            Smith is much more physical than Sanchez. if you want a player who will press the ball and force errors from defenders, she is better. I want to see her playing really good competition. I have watched her in the ECNL vs organized teams and tbh, they contained her pretty easily.

            The deceptive thing about Smith and some other top end players is they often use Club play to work on certain things and do not play the same game they would at a higher level.

          • Guest

            There are several excellent midfielders but they don’t regularly get chosen

    • Kevin

      Lavelle has already showed me more in the last two games than Sonnett, Short, Engen (dropped) and Hinkle (dropped) did all last year, although they’re all defenders.

      Lavelle looks like part of the future of this team (WC 2019 and beyond). I’m not sure I can say that about several players “on the gravy train”.

      • #1Fan

        Im not sure I would go that far yet. She needs a team around her getting her on the ball to control the game. Im not sure I see who is going to do that yet.

      • kernel_thai

        But there is nothing wrong with making a player earn the contract. There r mechanisms in the CBA that require a player who is repeatedly called in to be given a contract. If Lavelle is indeed part of the Ellis Big Picture (rolls eyes) then shed have a contract thru service time this summer. Instead she earned it thru an average U20 performance, nothing world beating at Wisconsin and her performance in two NT matches that the US lost! All current leadership seems interested in doing is making it easy for a select few

        • #1Fan

          its all about the hype. She had a few decent cameos vs Eng, but I would not say she had a great overall game. Player evaluation seems to be about you tube clips now. A goal or a nutmeg and you are great.

          • kernel_thai

            It’s partially about Ellis selling development. Look we developed her and she’s technical so we’re handing out money. My opinion is still u’ll have a better NT if u make the players fight to get there and stay there. If it’s based on Jill Ellis’ latest pipe dream this team is due for a rude awakening.

          • #1Fan

            France spanked them. If that was not an awakening then I dont know what is.

          • HOFCToDi

            2017 SheBelieves Cup
            USA 0 FRA 3

            Allie Long is not development but a defensive disaster.

          • HOFCToDi

            Development?

            Emily Sonnett did not even play at the 2017 SheBelieves Cup.

        • guest

          agree with
          “nothing wrong with making a player earn the contract”

          as you note under old (and one expect the new) CBA once a player is repeatedly calling in they must be put on contract.
          allocating young players (Sonnett last year / Lavelle this year ) before they earn/demonstrate (thru club or WNT play) they are going to stick at USWNT player level is not necessary

    • CED

      Lavelle was always going to be allocated b/c she was #1 pick. That’s the anointment process. Sonnet was anointed as the #1 pick as well and has yet to do much. It’s the stupid system. Jordan Morris has shown more for club and still is fringe MNT, while Pulisic is now firmly 1st choice b/c he showed well for Dortmund and MNT. MNT you earn your spots and nothing is guaranteed, WNT you’re anointed before you show you deserve it.

      • guest

        ” Lavelle was always going to be allocated b/c she was #1 pick ”

        Zakiya Bywaters – #1 pick from 2013 , Tiffany McCarty #2 pick in 2013
        illustrate that being #1 or #2 does NOT guarantee allocation.
        Kristie Mewis, #3 pick in 2013, did – after receiving multiple call-ups and playing with FCKC in NWSL – earn uswnt contract/allocation status mid season in 2013.
        my point,
        in the past, high draft pick did not automatically mean allocation

        • CED

          OMG are you really that ignorant on why this is apple in oranges. A high pick that has been around the NT during their jr or senior year of college always gets allocated…Morgan Brian, Dunn, Sonnett, Lavelle..

          Bywaters was never in NT contention…she was persona non grata essentially after U-20’s b/c she got just 3 caps for U-23, after she was no longer eligible for u20’s… she got 1 call into camp after the draft as a courtesy call and did not impress. Her NWSL career has been a disaster getting released bu chicago before 2016 season

  • truf

    Wow, Syd and Amy….when’s the last time they played a match for this team?
    They are not the future of this team.
    Rose and Lynn are obvious additions and important to this team moving forward.

    • Kevin

      Sydney I can kinda understand. ARod I can’t. ARod has never impressed me as being USWNT caliber.

    • guest

      Another dude commenter on a women’s soccer site who doesn’t understand employment law and pregnancy.

      • truf

        Amy’s second child was born 10 months ago, Syd’s over 7 months.
        They must have shown something in camp, but there’s no law that protects them at this point. The details of the new contract have not been made public, hopefully they will no longer get paid only half their wages. And there’s no way in hell they are getting a full year post birth.

        • HOFCToDi

          “There’s no way in hell they are getting a full year post birth.”

          They just did.

          • truf

            What’s your source? please post.

            “The new CBA includes bigger match bonuses, better per diem allowances, and increased financial support for players who get pregnant.” increased does not mean longer. if you’re suggesting they negotiated 2 years of maternity leave, you should reference your information. I”d be shocked. that is not good for the success of this team.

          • HOFCToDi

            Read the article noted above.

          • truf

            what article “noted” above?

          • HOFCToDi

            Are you freakin’ illiterate?

            “A day after the USWNT Players Association and US Soccer announced a new collective bargaining agreement, US Soccer and NWSL announced a list of 22 players who will play this season as Federation Players.”

          • truf

            What the F are you talking about? We are talking about Maternity leave, when you chimed in with your nonsense. You have two ears and two years. Read and think before you post.

          • HOFCToDi

            You don’t have a freakin’ clue what you are talking about. Leroux and Rodriquez were allocated last year and have been allocated this year.

          • truf

            you make zero sense. Amy and Syd were both on contract last year despite being pregnant. Amy gave birth 10 months ago, she’s legally not covered by USsoccer due to her pregnancy. that’s done. Now she has to earn it.

          • HOFCToDi

            You are so naïve since the veteran protection system is fully enforced with the new CBA.

          • guest

            amy and sydney just got allocated again for the full uswnt 2017 year where they will be back to full salary even though they both haven’t played at all. the uswnt corruption continues.

      • CED

        WNT is based on 1 yr contracts of allocation. USSF paid her last year on leave, her contract was up come 2017. Of course you’re another chick commenting on Woso site applauding entitlement of WNT pretending it’s some quest for equality. You people are utterly pathetic, you like the WNT would cry their entitled eyes out if USSF actually treated them with modicum of equality. Playing for NT is not a full time job, when will you sycophants realize that

        • guest

          lol entitlement because they are asking for more money. Why do you follow women’s sports if you view asking for more money as entitlement?

          • CED

            Playing a sport for your country is not a full time salary job., it’s pure entitlement to think so. If your sport is economically not viable too bad. Let’s pay the national hand ball team, water polo, etc..All the other economically not viable sports in the US. The rest of the countries in the world manage without this asinine soccer entitlement system of anointed arrogance.

          • #1Fan

            I understand countries giving grants to athletes for training. I understand them funding expenses. I dont understand paying them multiples of what that same job pays professionally. as a base entitlement.

            We already know what a female pro soccer player earns..its 60 k MAX

            If win bonuses mean they make 2 MM in a year from winning the WC, then great. but to pay them such a big retainer is pure jokes. i

          • CED

            Exactly, grants from countries or like what USOC does are often just to supplement people who have other jobs. The stipend/grant allows them to take maybe work less hours to train and those stipends get bigger the year before OG b/c training time is more and thus more time off from their real job. This system is asinine, destructive, and gives the false notion to the general public the NWSL is a viable league. USSF original sin was contracts in 2000, they should have just made it per game. They should have done it now. Instead of paying 94K Tier I(basing on 30% increase number being floated), just pay people 5K/game assuming 20 games a yr comes to 100K. About the same cost, but gives you total freedom, like MNT to call in people, cut people on a per game basis on performance. Fosters pure competition without protected and anointed players.

          • guest

            they uswnt were actually asking for equal pay with the usmnt. it turns out they were just lying and had no intention of giving up their guaranteed salaries for pay to play like the usmnt.

      • guest

        sydney leroux pregnancy was over six months ago.

    • #1Fan

      Lynn ? I dont see that at all.

      • Guest

        Morgan and Press are both nearing 30. What other forwards in the league should be replacing them at the moment besides Williams?

        • #1Fan

          i think there are better College players. There are not better athletes though. She also plays for a coach who emphasizes what she does well. On serious note is she a lot better than say Cheyna Williams? I dont think so.

          • Guest

            She finishes chances better than Cheyna Williams and seems somewhat quicker. I’d say she doesn’t fit that well into the system that WNT is trying to progress towards but considering they are still no where near that yet and are still relying on individual brilliance, she is the best bet

          • #1Fan

            i think she gets better chances becasue of how Riley plays. I think C Williams in that system would also thrive.

            The LW I saw at she believes was frankly useless. Could not trap a ball and missed some clear chances.

            Can she improve, sure. But the system pays her as if she is already at the very top of the game. Is she in the top 20 WoSo strikers in the game. I think not .

          • kernel_thai

            U can certainly make a case for giving Williams a tier 3 based on two pro seasons, one of which she was as good as anyone and seven NT appearances which were all more than cameos. Hard to justify Lavelle tho.

          • Kevin

            It’s extremely easy to justify Lavelle. She’s one of the best young prospects we have coming up and is most likely going to be seeing significant minutes in 2017.

            She’s a lot easier to justify than Sonnett. She’s had over a year to prove herself and just doesn’t look good enough. She panics under pressure causing her to make a lot of bad turnovers and is the worst player on the team with the ball at her feet in my opinion.

          • CED

            All the defenders panic under pressure, have poor distribution, etc…That’s why it’s bizarre Ellis playing a 3 back which requires defenders who are great on the ball and under pressure.

          • Gary Diver

            You’ve hit the nail on the head. USWNT does not have any defenders who feel comfortable with the ball, especially if they are pressed. Usually when Sauerbrunn gets the ball, the first thing she looks for is another back to pass the ball to as it is a hot potato. And Johnston is panic central whenever she is under pressure. How often does she either give the ball away or kick it out of bounds?

            A great soccer team needs a couple of defenders who are confident with the ball under pressure. USWNT, under Ellis, has none.

          • AlexH

            Not only can’t they move the ball upfield (or quickly around the back) but they are also SLOOOOOOOWWWWW. JE of course makes the problem worse by insisting on a high line and allowing them to make deep forays into the attack.

          • Silver Frost

            I seem to recall JJ is another Ellis convertible player. JJ used to be a great midfielder.

          • HOFCToDi

            Julie Johnston played centerback for the U-20 USWNT at the 2012 FIFA U-20 Women’s World Cup.

          • kernel_thai

            U don’t pay people for being prospects…u pay for results. I was never in favor of Sonnett getting allocated last year and she had a much better resume’ than Lavelle. Johnston and Dunn didn’t get handed their contracts and both had much better sheets than either Lavelle or Sonnett Now this doesn’t mean I don’t think Lavelle deserves to be on the NT….they just should make her earn it thru call ins and league performance.

          • Kevin

            Where does it say that you pay people based on previous service? It might be a trend, but it’s not a rule.

            Why not pay them based on expected contribution during the current contract (year)?

            Lavelle is most likely going to play significant minutes this year, so why shouldn’t she get paid?

            And who in the world is getting snubbed?

            She’s far more deserving than ARod.

          • kernel_thai

            Because it’s opinion over fact. U have a player who scored 11 goals in a league last year and some new forward in high school who u think might be able to score goals on the International level. Picking the young forward over a proven scorer is nothing but a hunch and while it’s ok to make a hunch sometimes it’s a lousy way to to decide who gets a $50,000 contract in a sport where that’s a ton of money. If Lavelle is the real deal it won’t take her long to prove it.

          • Kevin

            That’s a pretty bad comparison. It not the first time they’ve seen these players. They’ve been in the system for a while now.

            So give me the facts… who are the proven players that deserve it over Lavelle?

          • DNG

            Lavelle most likely won’t be directly competing with Ohai(who I assume you’re talking about). She’s a central midfielder that played out of position because Ellis. No matter her goal record last year, I just don’t see Ohai as a wing in a more progressive offense. I think she’s clearly limited as her touch and combination play just isn’t very good. That being said Williams and Short seem to be around for good so who knows what Ellis wants.

          • Kevin

            Wait a minute, so you’re comparing Lavelle and O’Hai?

            I know you’re a huge fan of O’Hai, but they’re completely different players. I was far more impressed with Lavelle than O’Hai in the limited time both played with the national team, but that’s irrelevant. What matters is Ellis’ opinion.

            These players have been in camp together and obviously Ellis currently favors Lavelle over O’Hai…

            …so why in the world should O’Hai get allocated over Lavelle if Lavelle is going to see a majority of the playing time and O’Hai might not even play in the foreseeable future?

          • DNG

            I’m not comparing them. I was guessing that KT was because KT was talking about a player that scored 11 goals in the league last year getting beat out. Lavelle is not really a proven player yet. I’m not really a fan of Ohai’s game as a flank attacker. I like her as a wingback in 3 back formations.

          • Kevin

            Yeah, I knew you weren’t comparing them. I thought he was talking about Williams originally, or possibly hypothetically because he mentioned a high schooler. I didn’t realize he might be talking about O’Hai until you pointed it out, although I should have because he’s her biggest fan on here.

          • Silver Frost

            Hinkle was allocated, but where is she now? And Mewis the Elder?

          • HOFCToDi

            LIFO

          • DNG

            I think this is a fair criticism of Sonnett. She was probably given a contract before she was ready. I’m not someone who’s impressed with Johnston’s performance though. I think she more or less lucked into the right place right time scoring goals to acquire acclaim in a world cup year. All while being at best a passable defender and never great. Her prowess on set pieces is something else I find to be overrated too. She’s a one trick pony there who can be pretty easily dealt with if you have someone play zone on the near post. The difference between her and Renard even in this one areas that we’ve been told JJ is great at is a giant chasm and the rest of their abilities aren’t even close to comparable. Johnston is the definition of an average CB to me who’s not much better than her NWSL competition if at all. If we don’t like the NWSL options why not look torwards college.

          • kernel_thai

            Johnston falls into the exact same category as Sonnett…little practical experience on a high level at CB. Both have the skill sets but just need the experience which comes from playing the position over time.

          • HOFCToDi

            Want to have a long career in soccer? Play in goal or central defence

            espnfc.com/blog/tactics-and-analysis/67/post/3056495/soccer-age-curves-show-goalkeepers-and-central-defenders-peak-latest

            As this chart shows, players generally peak between the ages of 25-28, but there are differences by position.

            soccernet.espn.go.com/design05/images/2017/0216/fcpositionsgraphic170216_576x324.png

          • rkmid71

            Lloyd is off your charts completely, even if she was GK or CB.

          • HOFCToDi

            So will Krieger, Sauerbrunn, Rapinoe in calendar year 2019.

            Nobody circles the wagons better than the USWNTPA.

          • guest

            the uswnt executives, coaches and players all protect each others backs to stay on the money train.

          • HOFCToDi

            Shannon Boxx was off the charts in calendar year 2013.

            Shannon Boxx
            NWSL Minutes Played
            2013 – 123
            2014 – 245
            2015 – 231
            Total – 599

            2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup squads

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_FIFA_Women%27s_World_Cup_squads#United_States

            Nobody circles the wagons better than the USWNTPA.

          • DNG

            I think we might agree here. I think all of the prospective NWSL CBs are about even with Sauerbrunn being the only great central defender and clearly slowing down. I need Johnston to show me her upside before I buy in. I don’t think she reads the game well enough and that is essential since she doesn’t have the pace to recover. This list also makes me question the outright cutting of Engen too.

          • htm222

            oh please. You’d rather have Long than Sonnett on the back line?

          • Kevin

            Oh please, you’d rather have Sonnett on the back line than JJ?

          • guest

            Yep. depending on how she develops and if she even gets the chance. Long is a joke.

          • Kevin

            WOW! That’s all I can say is WOW!

          • mockmook

            Oh please, you’d rather have JJ on the back line than Naughton? 😉

          • #1Fan

            please dont be offended, but did you think he was that before the SBC ? Is she more of a prospect that Pinto, Howell or Sullivan? Or even Andrews. ? Im only asking to understand why you think this.

          • kernel_thai

            Of all the players I saw last year Sullivan was the only one I thought was a sure thing and that includes Pugh.

          • Gary Diver

            Let’s hope Sullivan has a full recovery!

          • DNG

            I like Sullivan but she wasn’t exactly tested in her CAPS and was injured for the March matches. I don’t think any of them are a sure thing. I don’t think any looked better coming out of college than Morgan Brian who can’t find a way into an attacking role.

          • Kevin

            No, I’m saying she’s playing right now ***in 2017*** and will most likely see significant minutes over the next few months at the very least.

            Do you think someone who is going to be riding the bench should get it over her if Ellis is planning on playing Lavelle? She saw significant minutes in the SBC and is starting tonight. So based on that she absolutely should be allocated over Pinto, Howell or Sullivan.

            I think Sullivan would have obviously been allocated if she didn’t get injured.

          • #1Fan

            i said better prospect, not allocated. The HS kids cannot be allocated, nor can a College player. My point being is Lavelle merely the tallest dwarf in the circus and therefore the lucky recipient of a windfall? Is she earning the honor because she is miles better than the rest? Or simply good timing?

            Its like the big break is getting a chance to play vs poor teams

            Pad those stats

          • Kevin

            Yes, I know high school and college players can’t be allocated. I never said they could. KT mentioned high school players, not me.

            You’re completely missing my entire point and I’m not ever sure where you’re going with this. The conversation is about who was allocated.

            As for Rose Lavelle, I knew who she was long ago. She’s from Cincinnati, as am I. She went to high school about 10 minutes from where I live.

            ONCE AGAIN, HERE’S THE POINT I’M MAKING…

            If Player A is already starting and playing significant minutes in 2017 and Player B isn’t and may not, why should Player B get allocated over Player A?

            Whether a player is a better prospect, has better NWSL stats or is a grizzled veteran is irrelevant.

          • #1Fan

            And my point is IF she is not outstanding yet, why does she need to be allocated at all? I bring up the other players for reference only. AS in is she MILES better than they are.

            Its not irrelevant because essentially we are handing safety nets to payers who have accomplished nothing, just like the HS players.

            And BTW , Does getting 3 starts equal starting? Esp when you get pulled at HT in one game? Ellis is experimenting.

            I dont think I’m missing your point at all.

          • Kevin

            You do realize they carry 23 players on most of their rosters, right? There’s 22 allocations, plus Pugh.

            If Lavelle is going to be playing major minutes and starting a lot of games, then she should be allocated, because she’s actually ***playing***.

            You’re not making any sense at all because either you’re not realizing there’s 22 allocations or advocating someone not even making the rosters deserves allocation, which is just stupid.

          • #1Fan

            Lynn Williams is MILES worse

          • Kevin

            Hence, the reason why I didn’t mention Lynn Williams.

          • DNG

            At least Sonnett is trying to actually work on working through pressure. All we get from Short and Johnston are automatic clears and it’s not like Johnston hasn’t made mistakes with the ball under pressure either. I hope we see Oyster and Dahlkemper get some more minutes.

          • mockmook

            There is no system the USA is trying to progress towards — that is all lip service.

          • AlexH

            And there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with looking at the talent that you got and then playing in a way that suits that talent. You just have to be up front about it.

          • DNG

            They have the talent to play in a number of different ways so that is one argument that I am not buying. Does the US produce a lot of route one burners on the front line, sure. But it’s not like they don’t have other options should they chose a different path.

          • DNG

            Lynn Williams is probably more effective than Cheyna Williams in a system designed to maximize her strengths. In terms of all around soccer skills L. Williams is quite poor and the chances of her tough getting significantly better at this point are slim.

          • #1Fan

            probably . in this case that probably equals at least a 180k diff in pay ….LOLOLOL

        • htm222

          There are some interesting college recruits. I’m a fan of Savannahs Mccaskill and Jordan. Neither are as mediagenic as Morgan and Press, though, if I’m being honest. I’m interested to see who emerges in the NWSL this year.

          • CED

            McCaskill…LOL..she’s a low skill player, bull in a china shop that works against lower level college teams.

        • CED

          The replacements are likely not coming from the league and it will be years b/c of the vet protection system. There are U players who actually fit the style Ellis claims she wants to play. The question is will they get a chance before 2019/20. No, Williams, Ohai, etc…the newest NWSL people to get looks don’t cut it.

          • #1Fan

            they really dont. Today is anew day. I find myself agreeing with CED. Going home to take my meds

        • mockmook

          Why just the league? Why not Jordan?

          As to the NWSL, how about Groom?

    • HOFCToDi

      It’s called maternity leave. The USSF does not want a lawsuit.

      • truf

        you’re like a broken record of falsehoods. Neither of them are on maternity leave.

  • Gary Diver

    Step Forward or Step Backwards?

    Can anybody come up with an argument that the new CBA is a step forward for American WoSo beyond a cash cow for the “anointed few”?

    • #1Fan

      was it intended to be anything else? I would say no. Much as we want to see a better system. that was never going to happen.

      This was all about getting a deal that the CURRENT NT players were happy with.

      If Gulati really cared about making a bug difference from the ground up this regime would be allowed to go out to pasture

      • kernel_thai

        If they had gotten a system similar to the MNT which they yelled they wanted from the mountain tops, it would have opened the door to a wider pool

        • #1Fan

          they never did. thats the point. they never wanted that
          they wanted thier cake and they wanted to eat it.

          These women want security. They dont want boom bust . they dont want the pressure of winning and performing to stay in the team. they all LOVE the Guaranteed camp life. Instagram takeovers, glamorous photos and projecting the “image” of a NT player . they get paid handsomely for doing that , with or without performance.

          • Bill

            +1000

          • JL

            Right, because having fewer NT contracts available is guaranteed job security.

            What kind of dumb logic is that? Having fewer players required to be on contract is less security for the players. Less room for dead weight means players have to perform or their contract will be given to someone who is performing.

          • #1Fan

            The people in that room are only negotiating for themselves. they are the 22.

            I dont think its dumb logic at all.

            Security based system

            – term contracts ( irrespective of number above a certain lvl)
            – health benefits
            – protection for incumbents ( restricted selecction)
            – extra cost of selecting outside the allocations

            Merit based

            – game checks
            – performance bonuses
            – no selection restrictions

            Having a annual stipend is security. It almost guarantees you a one year look with the NT irrespective of form and continues to pay you even if your form dips.

            Whether it 24 or 22 or 15 it does not change the basic construct

      • Bill

        To me, if the union leadership wanted real power they would bargain in ways that expanded membership so the threat of strike was actually crippling to more than just the NT.

        But I wonder if the longevity of the players ( rarely most than 10-12 years) with many in the 6-8 year time with the NT leaves them so short term focused they don’t care about that in the same way a normal lifer union leader might.

        Also, they are members at a time of life when short term cash matters most. Add the longevity problem and too many of the 24 are extraction oriented and do not see the contradiction with their professed dedication to the ideals of building the women’s game.

        To many, $200K may be far more than their parents expected, and their graduating class peers hoped for. How many people can change their economic life trajectory in a meaningful way on a 10 year run of $50K per year above their sense of basic living expenses? Most people earning between $150-200K spend $150-200K.

        Next, their natural enemies are the NT coaches not the owners. As any union would, they seek to curb unfairness and bad judgments from their main threat to security. So coaches are frenemies they seek to control via the CBA rules and then placate as individuals in order to stay on the team

        Not a situation that naturally leads to anything more than a built in structural bias towards stalemate.

        • #1Fan

          +1000 back to you

      • Silver Frost

        What do you expect a union to do? Demand lower pay?

        • #1Fan

          Thats just it, The “union” does not represent 80 pct of its members. The only people negotiating were NT players FOR NT players

          • Lorehead

            It’s the United States Women’s National Team Players’ Association. Those are its only members.

            If it has a social responsibility to anyone else, then so does US Soccer and the NWSL, which among other things impose a salary cap to keep the salaries of those other players down. In any other line of work, that would be illegal.

          • DNG

            I’m curious as to your opinion on the argument of salary caps. Do you buy the argument that competition is the product and that they are needed. In practice, they seem to me to be a tool owners used to keep costs from raising too much taking advantage of there being little competition to the major American leagues. I don’t think the big 4 American leagues really need it at all to be successful like those owners argue. I’m less certain in a league like the NWSL which is still trying to establish itself. I think a luxury tax might work better for the NWSL in the future if the owners agree to it.

          • Lorehead

            It’s a reasonable argument.

            If we accept it, there’s an even stronger argument that we should have lower salaries and greater geographic parity of health-care services. Out-of-control medical costs and a shortage of services in rural areas are much bigger national problems than too many blowouts in pro sports.

            So it would, logically, be even more in the public interest to have a salary cap for doctors, too, and a system where, if a married couple work for a hospital in Seattle, it can trade the husband to a hospital in Kansas City, and if the wife requests a trade to Kansas City too, so she can live within a thousand miles of her husband, trade her to Rochester, New York instead because asking for a trade proves she isn’t a team player. (It’s already too hard to recruit nurses, though. I’ve got tremendous respect for anyone who sticks with it.) There’s already something like a draft for med-school graduates, although it’s a fairer system that lets the young doctors state preferences for where they want to go.

            I wonder how many of the people who accept the arguments that one kind of professional should be deprived of any control over their own careers, for the common good, would accept the same for doctors. Or their own profession.

          • DNG

            Thanks for the reply and you bring up some good points to consider regarding professional players rights. As it relates to the NWSL I still think some means of salary control is needed to keep the teams competitive but I think that a soft cap or luxury tax would work better. I don’t think the league should be trying to limit investment the finite way in which the salary cap does.

            The answer to your last question is not many in my opinion. I think the healthcare cost problem is a lot more complicated than the salaries of doctors though and fixing the healthcare in this country is going to be a difficult process that will upset special interest parties. The primary reason healthcare is higher in this country though seems to be because we on average pay more for services, medicine, ect… than every other developed nation. I’d try to attack that problem first.

          • Lorehead

            I’ll just say that I agree with your second paragraph. Both the ACA and AHCA did try to attack the problems you mention. I’ll leave it at that because I want to keep the analogy relevant to this discussion about WoSo.

            It is true that, when there wasn’t a salary cap, three women’s leagues spent themselves into bankruptcy, and when there was, it finally achieved financial stability, and has given the players substantial raises.

            A few years ago, I did my if-I-ran-the-NWSL post where I talked about how I would structure it. The salary cap would be based on the median team’s revenue, and would be a soft cap with a luxury tax. Subsidized players would still count against it. There would be a DP rule and, originally, a soft minimum, although I think the minimum salary is now higher than I proposed, so we can drop that.

          • Lorehead

            Separately, if we’re going to justify socialism for the owners, because that’s in the public interest, shouldn’t those privileges come with some kind of responsibilities? Or can, say, an owner get the taxpayers to build him a stadium because it’ll be great for the local economy, ask the whole city to support their team out of civic pride because it’s a cherished community institution, then move the team to another city because that will make him more money?

          • DNG

            I don’t really think that taxpayers building stadiums is often in those taxpayers interests. I am skeptical that they ever really pay off in the long run for the community. I think Paulson got into this on twitter with a reporter recently. And yeah, there is always the risk that the owner could just move the team for a more lucrative deal.

          • Lorehead

            So, we’ve decided that is okay. We’re going to allow team owners to collude to prevent bidding wars that would raise player salaries, which benefits the owners.

            We’re not going to pass a law that cities can’t get into bidding wars with each other to bribe team owners to move their teams there. Much less a law that, say, any league engaged in interstate commerce that avails itself of the public-interest exemptions from monopoly and labor laws must allow merit-based pro/rel, so that an enterprising new owner could start his own team, and if he’s good enough at running it, get that team into the NFL or NBA. Nor that a stadium built with public funds has to let the women play there, too. Instead, it’s as if, if you wanted to start a new bike shop, the existing bike shop owners had to hold a meeting and vote on whether they’ll allow any “expansion” of competition, but starting a new bike shop too close to any existing one is out of the question because every bike shop gets its protected geographic monopoly. And all bike shops have to share their revenues and follow the league regulations.

    • AlexH

      Probably not, but let’s be charitable and acknowledge that getting more money into woso is itself an achievement. The WNT should get a pay raise. It’s sad though that the closed shop of the WNT continues though.

      • #1Fan

        why should they get a pay rise? I actually dont see that as a given.

        • guest

          no indication (news reports or statements by USSF etc) that USSF ever offered anything but a pay raise.
          USSF and player association may have argued over how much of an increase and may have discussed different agreement terms etc but it has always been very unlikely that end result would have been any agreement at same or lower pay

          • #1Fan

            ell a broader agreement could have been and thats why I dont think a raise should have been a given. Shifting base pay to incentives could also have resulted in lower fixed cost.

            I would be happy with a system that said the US WNT COULD earn significant compensation via appearances, wins etc, but is very hard to take so called elite COMPETITORS seriously when all they want is a higher SAFETY NET to further insulate themselves from real competition . Especially at a point where they look as vulnerable as they ever have ON the field

          • mockmook

            Preach brother…

          • Lorehead

            Let’s put ourselves in their cleats for a moment.

            Your boss wants to change the terms of your employment: you can be fired at will, with no appeal or review, by the decision of your manager, as soon as he thinks someone younger is a better investment (and she thinks everyone slips with age).

            Not only that, your entire industry is a monopoly. Your employer is the United States National Whatever, and every job in your field is with it or one of its subsidiaries. If you get fired, you cannot apply for another job, because there are no other jobs for Americans. You could only do it as a part-time hobby, and maybe two Americans could get hired in France. Your career is over whenever they say it is.

            Your union wants to know how you feel about this contract.

          • #1Fan

            National team players should not be employees. When England decide to drop Wayne Rooney what happens. ? he goes back to man United.

          • Lorehead

            Oh, and your boss just said you shouldn’t be an employee. He compared it to England dropping Wayne Rooney, but of course you are well aware that there is no Man United for you to go to. The only other shops in the country are either amateur or operated by the company.

          • #1Fan

            Its an economic reality that currently Club WoSo in the USA does not generate enough interest or revenue to support big salaries. If you believe that an International federation should support its NT players at a level that is MULTIPLES of what the same job at Club level earns, then thats a fundamental disagreement we have over the structure of national team sports.

            No amount of your real world examples are relevant to me becasue they dont make any sense. I dont see it as a job to represent your country at a sport. I see it as a privilege. One that you should be paid to do on a game by game basis. I have no objection at all to them earning huge amounts on a per game basis if that is what the economy supports, but I do have an issue with selecting 22 or 24 players for a yearly contract at a level that dwarfs those doing the job in the NWSL.

            I dont think a NT should ever be a Club. I

            All these provisions and machinations are necessary for one reason only . WoSo is just no that popular at Club level.

            The thing I just dont get is what people find exciting about watching the NT play over matched opposition? Is it like going to the Coliseum in ancient Rome and watching the Christians vs the lions

            Given the USSF role in the game, why is some of money made at these games not being used to make the Girls Academy free. Or to hire 30 additional USSF scouts ? Who is “negotiating” for things like that? Or into coaching programs to develop more women coaches. Or to reduce the cost of Coaching licenses?

            Why is it an automatic that a huge chunk goes to the NT allocated players ?

          • Lorehead

            I notice you still haven’t said that you would be willing to live with the total lack of economic security you’re demanding these women do: your employer can terminate you at any time for any reason, with no recourse, and you can’t even get another job; you need to start over in a new career. Would that be good for morale at your workplace?

            The Thorns could afford to pay higher salaries, but the owners and US Soccer actively collude, as I said, to underpay the players. For that matter, if you believe the claims MLS made in its negotiations with the union, it can’t afford to either, yet it does.

            I’ve suggested in the past that, for the older players, there be some other kind of semi-retirement like an allocated salary in the NWSL or maybe a Legends team. That way, the players could have security without impacting the quality of the main team. This would mean paying the starters money, and then paying the veterans money on top of that. Another alternative would be for US Soccer to offer to pay the women so much that they’re willing to live with a total lack of any economic security. But that would mean paying them a lot more money.

            What you seem to want is for US Soccer to invest a lot of money in its development system. You also seem to want either other national teams to get better or for the USWNT to get worse. (As for scheduling better opponents, didn’t it just play England, Germany and France?) However, the changes you propose would cost more money and make the USWNT better, contrary to your goals.

          • #1Fan

            i live with it every day. I am an at will employee. They chose that life. I dont care how good or bad they are. i want the pay and selection to be open , transparent and the $$ to accrue to whoever plays. I dont want salaries. I dont think ANY other federation in the world pays their team the way the US does.

            Why do you not think money needs to be spent elsewhere as well? or is it only on the NT ?

            Its a fine discussion, but its not going anywhere. I want a fundamentally different system to you. I dont see it as a federations job to support a professional league.

          • Lorehead

            But I doubt you’re an at-will employee who has no other potential employers whatsoever. And specialized skills you needed thousands of hours of practice to learn. And is content with that. If so, glad you love your job, but does your monopoly employer have difficulty recruiting new talent into its industry?

            I’d love to see US Soccer spend more on the youth system.

            You keep saying that duplicating the men’s contracts is economically unrealistic, which is true. The implication, though, is that your ideas are not economically viable, either.

            You have this fantasy that US Soccer is going to dictate terms to the women, both cutting their pay and removing their job security. But they would never agree to that.

          • #1Fan

            we differ on the major issue. Playing football for your Club is a job. Playing for your country is not.

            If Womens Club soccer is not economically viable, that is market forces.

            its a pointless debate becasue we dont agree on that basis .

            Everything you are adding pre supposes the current conditions. I dont understand why the current conditions even exist.

          • Lorehead

            Presupposing your conditions, your proposal would not work. As you keep on saying, it’s not economically possible. The entire WoSo club system depends on subsidies from the federations. If those stop, playing for your club is not a job. You yourself say it cannot be one.

            So if playing for the NT isn’t a job either, playing WoSo isn’t a job and the only women who can do it full-time are a few heiresses.

          • #1Fan

            which is essentially what you have NOW at grass roots level. Look at the demographics of your team that represents America. Show me the kids who grew up dirt poor and ascended to the NT thru grit hard work and the game?

            I dont agree that federations around the world are paying for WoSo. Man City ? OL ?PSG ? you think thats federation money? I dont think it is.

            If the world at large does not care to watch and support WoSo , whose responsibility is it ?

          • Lorehead

            Hope Solo.

          • #1Fan

            you are debating a point I am not making. My point is why do we have contracts in the first place. USSF has created a system now that they can only continue to lose on.

          • Lorehead

            The reason we have contracts is so that women who make soccer their career know they have at least minimal economic security. USSF probably could have offered the USWNTPA more money in exchange for less security, but that would have been more expensive.

          • #1Fan

            I dont see that at all. Is there any security for an NWSL player ? there is only security for allocated players.

            And why do I care if its more expensive if it offers a higher floor for more players ?

          • #1Fan

            A national team that has to identify its players a year in advance and pay them is not a national team. Its a national Club. the question Im asking is why are we in this position in the first place. ?

            the only reason I can come up with is becasue womens soccer is not economically viable in the USA .
            Are there any examples of womens sports that are not economically viable , but competing at a national team level is ? I dont know, but thats the dichotomy here.

            A woman growing up , developing he skill you speak of over the years playing a game is unable to sustain that Unless she is one of 24 players. What happens if she is #30 ? What doe this agreement do to grow the sport?

            Is it not a bit strange to have a career perched on top of a profession that you cannot afford to do ?

          • FlyingSquirrel42

            The other possibility is that even if they *did* agree, the team’s stability and quality would decline sharply because we’d start to see the same thing we’ve seen in the NWSL – players who are good enough to be in the starting lineup and contribute on the pitch retiring young to get “real jobs” and pregnancy more often meaning retirement as opposed to just taking a break.

            (Cue the usual commentary about how the team already sucks, Jill Ellis needs to be fired, Christen Press is overrated, etc.)

            I’d like to see the NWSL players paid more, but do the USWNT players even have the standing to bargain on the NWSL-only players’ behalf? Regardless, given the shaky status of women’s club soccer, USSF has to kick in some extra cash if they want the best players to be willing to dedicate a good 10 or 15 years to the USWNT as their career choice.

          • Lorehead

            Realistically, nobody else is going to bargain on behalf of the NWSL players until they do it for themselves. Thus far, they haven’t tried because they don’t want the NWSL to go out of business.

            If it ever looks economically stable, we’ll see a NWSLPA form the next week.

          • USMNTfan4life

            I dont know if it would be that immense. Depends on how the federation spins it.

          • Lorehead

            “Bwah-ha-ha, our evil plan has come to fruition! Long have we bedeviled her, but now Christen Press shall be destroyed once and for all!”

          • Lorehead

            Also, contrary to a widespread misconception here, the men on the US national team make more for just showing up to their World Cup than the women do, and there is only a minimum number of contracts USSF can give female players, not a maximum. They are totally free to call up as many new players for as many matches as they want, if they are willing to pay them for the year..

          • #1Fan

            So why give any contracts at all ?

          • Lorehead

            The contract they signed says they have to. Less flippantly: without a contract, why play?

            A handful of people here are incredibly resentful of provisions in the contract that do not exist.

          • #1Fan

            why do any NT players in any other country play? Why do the NBA guys play ? Remember what happened when tiger Woods suggested the Ryder Cup golfers be paid?

            Messi was paying for security and travel of the Arg federation out of his own pocket. Why?

            I guess some people feel they owe it to their country to play for pride not just $$

          • Lorehead

            That really is a serious problem for other countries. It’s often been observed here that there are promising young players on some national team, but it’s young and inexperienced. Mostly college players from North America, in fact. You check up on them again in four years and—it’s Fast Times. I keep getting older, they stay the same age.

        • Silver Frost

          Why do men get million Euro contracts? Do I detect a bit of sexism here?

          • #1Fan

            because the leagues and TV revenue support it. The Federations dont pay players millions of dollars unless they win

          • Lorehead

            Or even if they win.

          • #1Fan

            Several do

          • Lorehead

            The bonus the women got for winning the World Cup was less than $2M, and, again, contrary to what some people here seem to believe, the men got paid more just to show up to their World Cup than the women did. And they really have lost all their games there before.

          • #1Fan

            Because the economics dictate that.

          • Lorehead

            Your ideas are less economically viable than mine. Your fantasy is that the women are forced to sign a contract that’s much worse for them than the one they just got, and get absolutely nothing in return. Then you want the USWNT to get better, but also their matches to be more even, and US Soccer to spend a lot more money on things that produce no revenue at all.

          • USMNTfan4life

            Mens World cup generates more revenue, therefore, their win binus isx snd should be higher.

          • DNG

            Why? FIFA is not some company that reports to shareholders. They push for tax exemptions in the countries where they select to host world cups. Their motto is: For the game, For the world. Not, For the men’s game, for the world. I think they have an obligation to help grow women’s soccer just like men’s soccer and a significantly higher women’s world cup purse would contribute to that goal.

            It’s not like they don’t make tons of excess money too. Almost 5 billion from the last world cup if I remember correctly. To be honest the 15 million dollar prize pool for the women is disgraceful. and the 500 million prize pool for the men is probably too small too.

          • Lorehead

            A lot of people seem to believe that, if FIFA raised the prize pool for the women, which it could certainly afford to do, that would mean a massive chunk of the payout would go to the players and be reinvested in the women’s side of the game. That sounds like a worthy thing for a charity dedicated to promoting soccer to do.

            But in any case, my point is that a lot of people here seem to think that the women get higher base pay but lower win bonuses. That’s not the case. They get lower base pay and lower win bonuses.

          • Lorehead

            The men don’t get million-euro contracts from their national team, and they get million-euro contracts from their clubs because those clubs mostly lose money, but are owned by rich sports fans who like blowing their money on BroSo and the prestige that comes from owning the local football team. There are some of those for WoSo, but fewer.

            I think the pertinent question to ask is: if either side has a responsibility to sacrifice for the good of the journeywoman in the NWSL, don’t both of them? If it’s just capitalism, then Becky Sauerbrunn and Carli Lloyd are fully justified in making the best bargain for themselves they can, and if you’re saying it’s a bad thing that doesn’t do enough for the rank-and-file of the NWSL, what you’re saying is they ought to form a union too and negotiate their own deal just like the NTers did.

            But if people should sacrifice when drafting an employment contract, for the sake of their social responsibilities, then US Soccer should have as well, instead of trying to drive a hard bargain.

        • Lorehead

          Why shouldn’t US Soccer give them one? They are literally a charity dedicated to equality between the sexes, or at least that’s what they tell the IRS on April 15.

          • #1Fan

            Its a fundamental difference . they should not be employees . I any commercially viable sport, they never are.

    • HOFCToDi

      Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    • mockmook

      No

    • Lorehead

      It’s bizarre to me how people demand more altruism from the players than from the notoriously corrupt multi-million dollar corporations that are, officially, charities, and not only that, operate with a special exemption from anti-monopoly laws because they’re so valuable to society.

    • Lorehead

      The minimum salary in the NWSL just doubled.

  • Frozen Blue

    How is Dunn compensated when she is called into the national team, is it per game?

    • DNG

      No she is still a contracted player she just doesn’t get the NWSL portion of her pay.

      • Frozen Blue

        Thanks I didn’t know she still got her salary.

        • mockmook

          Just like the other players, she will be in camps and at the games, so there is no reason her salary should be different (except the NWSL part).

          • Frozen Blue

            I just didn’t realize they were separate.

          • Frozen Blue

            It also makes more sense why Lloyd and Morgan are coming back for NWSL seasons, especially Lloyd who doesn’t seem to like her NWSL team, they draw three salaries.

    • HOFCToDi

      Based upon the previous CBA structure:

      National Team Salary
      Tier 1 – $72,000
      Tier 2 – $51,000
      Tier 3 – $36,000

      “In addition, any player on the Olympic roster in 2016 will be a Tier 1 player, if offered a contract.”

      NWSL Salary
      2016 – $56,000 (founding players)
      2016 – $46,000

      Crystal Dunn will not receive a NWSL salary.

      • Frozen Blue

        Thanks

      • Frozen Blue

        Do Lloyd and Morgan get their full NWSL salary if they only play part of the NWSL season?

        • HOFCToDi

          Here is the link to the MOU:

          media.philly.com/storage/philly/tannenwald/20160204_ussf_vs_uswnt_initial_filing.pdf

          Exhibit D, page 119 of 217

  • HOFCToDi

    Off Topic.

    I predict more Wenger Out banners than Ellis Out banners at tonight’s match.

    • Gary Diver

      Unfortunately, the hoi polloi does not care what is under the USWNT hood as long as they have some celebrities to worship and throw money at.

  • Gary Diver

    No Room in Inn

    It must be very depressing to be a young, talented WoSo player in the US, like Morgan Andrews or even Ashley Sanchez, to realize that nobody is going to get a real at grabbing USWNT brass ring until they are anointed by Jill Ellis. Nothing against Allie Long, but what has she done to cement a permanent position on the roster. And pray tell, please explain why Lynn Williams in now an anointed one.

    Canada is just beat Sweden 1-0 on a goal by Janine Beckie, who how has 15 international goals in 31 appearances. John Herdman, in spite of character defects, seems to get more out of her players than Ellis ever could. AND Herdman has gotten rid of nearly all of the dead wood and is giving 7 teenagers on his roster a chance to show him what they can do.

    • Ashley C

      “in spite of character defects”

      The ott hate for Herdman by some on here is so fascinating to me. You could say the same about Sampson given past comments but you don’t hear it around here. In fact, plenty of managers are that way in the men’s game and are applauded for it. The gag is that the USWNT needs a coach like Sampson, Herdman, Lair, etc in the future instead of Ellis.

    • HOFCToDi

      Jill Ellis is clueless. Who wants to play for a manager who sits on the bench and doodles in his/her notebook throughout the entire match?

    • HOFCToDi

      How many players allocated in calendar year 2013 were named to the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup roster?

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NWSL_Player_Allocation#2013

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_FIFA_Women%27s_World_Cup_squads#United_States

    • guest

      Solo was right. Ellis isn’t a leader. Herdman is. He actually inspires his players.

  • Gary Diver

    Does USSF/Gulati care anything about the state and structure of American WoSo? Or do they only care about labor peace and the public celebrity image of the USWNT roster?

    • guest

      they care about making money.

      • guest

        a uswnt fan game boycott due to uswnt corruption might be the only solution for change.

        • DNG

          This is the USSF’s fault too. They are absolutely complicit in the culture. Heck they’re the ones that start it with the youth team selections.

    • riz

      They wont be celebrities if they crash out of another cycle. So on a long enough timeline it’s a self correcting problem.

      • guest

        only a uswnt world cup disaster similar to the rio olympics or worse will abe able to end the uswnt corruption.

  • tonysocref

    Time for speculation.
    Unless the new CBA has decreased the number of minimum player contracts. Who is the 24th player that has received a contract?
    There’s only 22 players listed here as Federation players in the NWSL and one would have to guess that Dunn has been given a USSF contract.

  • guest

    it’s almost time for hope solo to enter into her fat elvis period.

  • HOFCToDi

    The USWNT’s new CBA, plus USWNT v Russia preview w/ Stephanie Yang
    Posted on April 6th, by Daryl in Soccer Podcasts

    totalsoccershow.com/podcasts/the-us-womens-national-teams-new-cba-plus-uswnt-v-russia-preview-w-stephanie-yang/

  • guest

    will megan rapinoe stand in support of the russian national anthem today even though russia is supporting syria’s assad in killing men, women and children with chemical weapons attacks?

    • guest

      No, she’s not a fan of Trump, I mean Putin, I hear.

    • Guest

      If you donate to one charity, are you then obligated to donate to every other charity in the world?

  • Paul Klee
    • guest

      look’s like the 3-5-2 has been abandoned for at least one game. maybe ellis is starting to feel some heat.

  • Silver Frost

    OK, five years down the road and NWSL has abandoned the idea of even distribution of WNT players. DC has NO WNT players! Thorns have 5! Next step is salary cap raised to 100k. Cue Paulson to act like a woso Steinbrenner.

  • #1Fan

    do these games tell the US anything?

    • Reality

      They tell us that it is a priority that Lloyd must get her 100th goal.

      • DNG

        This nightmare is never ending.

        • Reality

          If she plays every game for 90″ through 2020, I’m sure she will aim for 200.

          • guest

            carli lloyd is the tom brady of women’s soccer. she will play for the uswnt for another eight years until she is 45.
            #greatestwomenssoccerplayever.

          • DNG

            No she isn’t and Tom Brady is actually still a good quarterback.

          • guest

            carli lloyd needs to get on that tom brady diet real quick. lol.

          • Reality

            They will undoubtedly have a Carli Lloyd clause in the next CBA limiting contracts to those under 50.

    • DNG

      Of course not but the line up and team sheet is hilarious. Only Ellis would start a lineup with one natural center back.

    • guest

      “do these games tell the US anything?”
      if the attendance is good, then the revenue helps to pay the bills
      otherwise not much use

      to my eye USWNT looked fairly sloppy

      • DNG

        Fairly sloppy is probably kinder than what I said because that implies that they can clean up their performance. I thought they looked disconnected and created very little outside of the times they got in behind. I’m not sure this starting XI can be more connected and combine better.

  • guest

    i just can’t wait to hear the ex-uswnt puppets talking on fox in support of the new uswnt cba. they won’t say one thing about the cba not being equal to the usmnt pay to play cba. the ’99ers are the ones who started this tenured unequal system to begin with so they could all stay on the national team for over fifteen years each.

  • HOFCToDi

    Lineup Notes: U.S. WNT and Russia Face Off in First Friendly of the Year

    http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/04/06/17/28/20170406-feat-wnt-lineup-notes-russia-frisco-texas

    Tonight’s Starting XI: 1-Alyssa Naeher; 5-Kelley O’Hara, 4-Becky Sauerbrunn, 14-Casey Short, 7-Meghan Klingenberg; 16-Rose Lavelle, 20-Allie Long, 3-Sam Mewis, 2-Mallory Pugh; 10-Carli Lloyd (capt.), 19-Crystal Dunn

    Subs: 8-Amy Rodriguez, 11-Ali Krieger, 13-Alex Morgan, 15-Megan Rapinoe, 22-Megan Oyster, 23-Christen Press, 24-Ashlyn Harris

  • Gary Diver

    Off-Topic Alert: What is the formation and who are the forwards for tonight’s match against Russia?

    Starting XI: 1-Alyssa Naeher; 5-Kelley O’Hara, 4-Becky Sauerbrunn, 14-Casey Short, 7-Meghan Klingenberg; 16-Rose Lavelle, 20-Allie Long, 3-Sam Mewis, 2-Mallory Pugh; 10-Carli Lloyd (capt.), 19-Crystal Dunn

    • mockmook

      4-4-2 — follow the semi-colons…

    • Reality

      4-4-2 with Lloyd and Dunn at forward.

      • Gary Diver

        LLoyd and Dunn at forward? What kind of experiment is this?

        • Reality

          Lloyd chasing 100…Dunn auditioning as her partner.

        • #1Fan

          its not 🙂

      • DNG

        4231/433 is my guess.

        • Reality

          They showed a 4-4-2 in the FS1 preshow but who knows what will really happen with the formation.

          • DNG

            It’s playing like a 442. Lavelle and Pugh are pretty free though. Russia are an awful team though and they were nice enough to leave loads of space in behind.

          • Reality

            Lavelle gives me hope for the future of the midfield. Granted it’s Russia but I haven’t felt hopeful in a long time.

          • #1Fan

            Not me. I watched them get owned by France. Did you see this then? Beating crap teams is not the issue.

            In fact the BAD sign is how individual we become when its easy. We stop playing team soccer and go back to hero ball.

          • Reality

            Lavelle would be only part of the solution for the midfield, but she has demonstrated skill, vision and judgement beyond her years which is what gives me hope for the future. There are clearly other shoes that must fall before we can reach France’s level of excellence in the mid.

          • DNG

            I don’t think her decision making and vision is close to Brian actually. She does have potential though. I don’t think we have anyone remotely close to the player Henry is. Probably not Abily either.

          • Reality

            She is not at Brian’s level…yet. But she clearly has the potential to develop into a nice complement to Brian for the future.

          • #1Fan

            dont see it. Totally different type of player for the same position in my opinion. You choose. I dont see them being effective in the same midfield vs a good team.

            I think lavelle is another central attacking player. The US has too may.

          • DNG

            I actually think the US central midfield is missing a Mordic type player that can break line by dribbling. I don’t think Lavelle is close to being that player right now though.

          • mockmook

            Oh FFS, who are these great USA mids that you see who are so much better than Lavelle?

            And FYI, you guys have basically repeated the same comment about ten times in a row — so enlightening…

          • DNG

            I don’t know but that’s not really the point. There doen’t have to be someone better for me to think that Lavelle isn’t a CM or that she was just okay. If you don’t like it get over it. It’s fine if you don’t agree and you can just skip my comment.

          • DNG

            And with the caveat that both haven’t really proven much against the top teams yet. I do like Sullivan at central midfield more than Lavelle.

          • #1Fan

            Lavelle looks an exciting attacking prospect. thats all im saying. CAM for me, not CM . 10 not 6 or even 8. I think she would be a decent inverted winger in 433 as well or RCM in a 4231. I an totally see why Ellis played her wide, but NOT in 352

            I think there are better 6/8 s …not 10s

          • Reality

            “Totally different type of player for the same position in my opinion.” I disagree. They both have good ball handling skills and field vision which is essential for a midfielder and sorely lacking in our current setup. And I did say complementary insofar as Brian would be more focused on defense whereas Lavelle would be more offensively orientated. I get that you don’t like Lavelle, but your extreme position on her unworthiness is a bit puzzling.

          • #1Fan

            i like them both. Just not together. I dont think Brian is a defensive midfielder. She is going to break lines by passing more than Lavelle is.

            its not that I dont like Lavelle or anyone else, I just diont get the overreaction to beating up on weaker teams than she faced in College?

            If we are going to play teams like Russia, then yes, they could play together /

          • DNG

            I think you could play them together if you also play them with a real stopper at the 6.

          • #1Fan

            Maybe 4231 … As the 10 and 7 or 11 with a 2 way 8 and a stopper at 6

            Yes, that would def work. but not 433 or 442

          • DNG

            I think we agree. Is Brian at the 10 and Lavelle as an inverted winger what you were thinking? Both centrally in a 433 would probably not work but you could probably try Lavelle out wide there too.

          • #1Fan

            either really. I dont mind. I think I mentioned 433 below for Lavelle as a RW,

            Thing is, to achieve what we both think weld work , some eggs have to be broken

            Lloyd, no role.
            Heath/Dunn/ Press/ Williams/ Pugh/ Rapinoe/ A-ROD all fighting for 2 spots
            does Mewis/Long work as double pivots ? if not …who?

          • DNG

            I like Press and Horan as options for the 9. Heath, Dunn, Pugh and Lavelle could be the options for the flanks. As much as I love Rapinoe she really needs to work her way back into the team with professional performances. Arod doesn’t really have a spot anymore and if you play Horan as a 9 she can provide the hold up play Arod was used for. Williams is still too raw for me. I don’t think I’d definitely start Lavelle right now either. Not saying she can’t do it but we didn’t really see a lot of combination play from her. Lots of dribbling though.

          • #1Fan

            I would give Lavelle a run there. Why not? She looks a bit like a natural successor to Heath.

            The Horan 9 ship seems to have sailed.

          • DNG

            I like Lavelle. I would definitely give her a bunch of minutes out wide and she does appear to be similar to Heath and probably more direct too. I’m just trying to not pencil anyone in at this point so there are 4 players that I would like to see compete for the two flank spots.

            The no chance for Horan at the 9 is extremely frustrating considering what this team lacks up top. I’m guessing she’s going be used more as a back up 10 which isn’t a terrible role for her but seems like such a waste.

          • DNG

            As long as you’re not giving up at Brian at the 10 I’m not giving up on Horan at the 9. I think they’d be excellent compliments one another by the way and to wings like Heath and Lavelle

          • DNG

            They could also try moving Dunn to RB and KO to LB which would give them two pretty solid defensive and attacking fullbacks.

          • #1Fan

            I like KO last night. She has exactly what you need at that spot. Great fitness, neat on the ball , speed. No idea why she is not the full time starter at one FB

          • DNG

            Makes no sense to me either

          • Reality

            Well, I think the obvious answer is to play them together against both good and poor teams and see what happens. If it turns out well, it will be a qualitative improvement in our midfield. If it doesn’t, then they can be platooned as dictated by opponent and circumstance.

          • #1Fan

            there are variables that need to be clarified. when iI say not together, I am saying it in the context of the existing formations that JE seems to favor . 442, 352 4411

            Below, DNG has come up with a way that I think they could play together, but Im not sure JE would ever do it.

          • Reality

            Well we know that historically speaking, Ellis seems to be unaware of the utility of a real DM. So we are left with strategies that don’t include that asset. Any formation that might be employed is usually determined by the opponent. Given that Brian and Lavelle both represent imo our best midfield talent, it would behoove us to try to find appropriate formations that can use them together. This would of course would be dependent upon first giving them an opportunity to work together to determine their compatibility.

          • DNG

            Dunn has apparently been playing in the 9 role for Chelsea. Finishing issues aside I kind of like her movement up front. I would still want to look at a striker built more like Horan though.

    • HOFCToDi
  • #1Fan

    Pugh is showing you how far away she is, Get ball , sprint.

    • DNG

      It’s Russia and they can’t defend at all. She can run through this whole team team. Lavelle too.

      • #1Fan

        no joke , my daughter could.

    • DNG

      The Lavelle hype is going to be huge after this match.

  • Gary Diver

    A little dark humor from WNT Twitter:

    “I don’t have cable so when I saw #USAvRUS I was like “Danggg, we dun gone to war over this mess y’all!”. Then I realized it was soccer…”

  • Gary Diver

    Some people at WNT Twitter claim Rose Lavelle is playing an outstanding match. Any confirmation?

    • mockmook

      Some definite moments of brilliance in an overall above average performance

    • #1Fan

      As the resident cynic, lets just say that I’m not overly impressed. Final ball poor, too many touches and too many plaudits for a few back heels.

      Bottom line is Russia are awful. I really dont get all the oohs and ahhhs. Lavelle was unable to do this vs Big 10 defenses, She was also unable to do it at the SBc v real teams.

      Yes she has talent, but this is my consistent beef with the US press/piblic – she is playing vs worse competition than she did in College !! Why are people getting excited.

      there are College kids who could do what she is doing. HS kids even.

      Its not meaningful to me at all

      • DNG

        AW mentioned this but Lavelle and Pugh are not going to be able to dribble so freely against a compact good defense. I like the speed up top but the passing and combination could be a lot better. Without the space to get in behind I think this lineup would struggle to break teams down. I’ve read a couple of Lavelle>Brian already.

        • #1Fan

          to me there is no way Lavelle is a CM . No way. maybe a CAM or a CF in a 4411, but CM ..def not. I see dribbling and to be brutally honest, its not that good. She need a mobile 9 ahead of her so she can play little slip passes into seams.

          Putting her in to a team really boxes in you style of play. I tough defender man marking her i believe would snuff her out.

          • DNG

            I agree with you. I don’t see a CM and I’m now questioning how the Breakers are going to fit both Andrews and Lavelle in their midfield. I think you noted this already but Pugh has a long way to go too. She’s a pretty good slasher right now though.

          • #1Fan

            I am old school. I hate youtube soccer players. Lavelles final pass and decision making (back heel and one gorgeous pass aside) was not good.

            Youtube will replay the back heel and tell you that she played a great game.

            I thought she was ok, but far from great vs a very mediocre team.

            We are Very very rushed in everything we do .

          • DNG

            Generally speaking I like flair but I agree that Lavelle could have played better against this team which is very bad and even played to the US’s strengths early in this match. I think there is something there with Lavelle but she has a good amount of developing still to do. I think all the Lavelle>Brian is very premature and not really a fair comparison. As a passer Lavelle has not shown me she’s in the same ballpark.

            Rushed is the only way a lot of our players know how to play. Attack as fast as possible to catch the defense off guard. The team just looks and plays so disconnected from one another.

            On a separate note I do really miss Rapinoe. Unfortunately I’m doubtful she will ever get back to where she was a couple of years ago.

          • #1Fan

            I’m amazed how little we take the opposition into account. I heard terms like

            Hit the reset button

            Show what we are about

            Really?

            I saw a team that can beat a poor team without being wholly convincing.

            as far as formation, is this the end of 352? Is the Long experiment over?

          • DNG

            The Long experiment better be over and obviously I agree on the competition needing to be taken into account more. There are probably only 10-12 teams( probably fewer) that can really give the US an idea of where they are. The rest can be beat pretty easily with poor performances. I kind of just ignore the commentary as most of it is just fluffing up the team and that’s exactly what Fox and ESPN want. Even if I often disagreed with him, DiCicco did give honest opinions when broadcasting.

          • Reality

            I often watch the game without commentary…it’s more like actually being at the game. One can become distracted or even lazy in observation by relying on some of these commentators.

          • DNG

            And it didn’t look to me that Lloyd was doing much at all out there…

  • Gary Diver

    Maybe putting Lloyd as a forward where she can’t do any damage to the MF is a good idea.

  • brdn08

    All I took away from this game is that this team’s finishing seems to be getting worse. Multiple empty nets missed, a penalty not on frame, multiple post hits. To only score four goals in a game with such a gap in talent between the two sides isn’t good enough.

  • Gary Diver

    What does the new CBA says about USWNT players playing for NWSL? Are they required to play for NWSL?

    • Rdalford

      Some of the reporting on new CBA indicated that USWNT players would be required to play in NWSL with mechanisms (pro-rated allocation salary) to address players who play part of a season in Europe (ala Morgan, Lloyd etc).
      My guess is the CBA clause re playing in NWSL may be similar to what was in the old CBA where there were a couple of options for fulfilling the play in NWSL requirement so players needed to play at least 2 NWSL seasons and as noted a pro-rated NWSL allocation salary for playing partial NWSL season.

  • Gary Diver

    Roster Mobility and Flexibility

    How much flexibility does Jill Ellis actually have in choosing her WC15 roster? If in the spring of 2019 there are a few players without USWNT contracts demonstrably better than contract players, can Ellis put the better players on the roster even if it means bumping a contract player?

    • Rdalford

      old CBA had limit (8) on number of pro woso (non-USWNT contract) players who could be called up for a particular camp/match – but no limit coll/youth.
      Some reporting on new CBA indicate that this limit on number of pro woso players per camp/match has been adjusted (raised/removed/not sure)
      Ellis has previously noted this old (8) limit as an issue when she wanted to hold camp with more than 8 pro woso (non USWNT) players to see wider pool – so it appears this limit has been adjusted/removed in new CBA.

      even under the old CBA the USWNT coach/Ellis has always had the ability (but perhaps not the budget) to call in non USWNT contract players if/when the coach felt the non USWNT contract player was better selection for particular roster.

      For example, initially as Ellis looked at players for OG roster she called Allie Long (who was not on a USWNT contract) into camps/matches and eventually selected Allie Long for the OG roster. Per terms of old CBA (and perhaps new CBA) once a player is called in xx times in a year, they are put on USWNT contract (initially tier 2 or tier 3) and once a player makes OG (or WC) roster then and/or become a regular starter they are placed on a tier 1 contract.

      So technically, the USWNT coach/Ellis could (under old and likely new CBA) select non contract player(s) instead of a USWNT contract player
      – however –
      that choice may have budget impact (still paying salary of USWNT player the coach did not select or if USWNT player dropped from contract, paying 3 month severance, and new player being called in more than xx times will then also go on contract, etc) so available budget $$$ may in effect limit how often a coach can actually make such a roster choice.

      Some reporting on new CBA indicate that USWNT coach/Ellis may have additional flexibility in calling-up more non USWNT contract players but it will be important that sufficient budget $$$ be planned to allow coach/Ellis to actually exercise that flexibility.