Ellis names camp roster ahead of SheBelieves Cup

The Equalizer Staff February 8, 2017 708
As promised, Crystal Dunn is returning to U.S. shores for the SheBelieves Cup. (Photo Copyright Patricia Giobetti for The Equalizer)

As promised, Crystal Dunn is returning to U.S. shores for the SheBelieves Cup. (Photo Copyright Patricia Giobetti for The Equalizer)

Jill Ellis has called in 25 players for training camp ahead of next month’s SheBelieves Cup. The roster includes NWSL No. 1 overall pick Rose Lavelle who was in multiple camps over the last year but has yet to be capped. Fellow rookie Jane Campbell is also on the list plus the uncapped pairing in midfield of Sarah Killion and young Brianna Pinto. The 16-year old Pinto began the year in U-23 camp, was brought to the senior camp afterwards and is not a heartbeat from dressing for a full national team contest.

Amy Rodriguez, who did not play last year due to maternity leave, is on the roster after participating in January camp. Sydney Leroux, who also had a baby in 2016, has yet to be called back in but is training toward a return.

{RELATED: Solo tells 60 Minutes Sports she wants to be at France 2019}

Alex Morgan and Crystal Dunn, both of whom recently signed to play in Europe, were also called in. Meghan Klingenberg and Mallory Pugh are both on the roster after missing January camp through injury.

Notably absent from the roster is Megan Rapinoe.

“January gave us a chance to see some new faces in with the veterans, and get some quality time on the training field,” Ellis said. “A player’s performance in that camp and positional depth guided our selection for this pre-camp, and from here we will select our SheBelieves Cup roster.”

Ellis will trim the roster by two players before the U.S. opens defense of the SheBelieves Cup on March 1 in Chester, Pennsylvania against Olympic gold medalist Germany. The round robin tournament continues with matches against England (March 4, Red Bull Arena) and France (March 7, RFK Stadium). All match days are doubleheaders with the two other teams facing each other before the U.S. play.

Ellis’s side beat all three teams last year to claim the inaugural SheBelieves Cup.

The full roster is:

GOALKEEPERS (3): Jane Campbell (Houston Dash), Ashlyn Harris (Orlando Pride), Alyssa Naeher (Chicago Red Stars)
DEFENDERS (7): Julie Johnston (Chicago Red Stars), Meghan Klingenberg (Portland Thorns FC), Ali Krieger (Orlando Pride), Kelley O’Hara (Sky Blue FC), Becky Sauerbrunn (FC Kansas City), Casey Short (Chicago Red Stars), Emily Sonnett (Portland Thorns FC)
MIDFIELDERS (9): Morgan Brian (Houston Dash), Tobin Heath (Portland Thorns FC), Lindsey Horan (Portland Thorns FC), Sarah Killion (Sky Blue FC), Rose Lavelle (Boston Breakers), Carli Lloyd (Houston Dash), Allie Long (Portland Thorns FC), Samantha Mewis (NC Courage), Brianna Pinto (CASL)
FORWARDS (6): Crystal Dunn (Chelsea Ladies FC), Alex Morgan (Olympique Lyonnais), Christen Press (Chicago Red Stars), Mallory Pugh (UCLA), Amy Rodriguez (FC Kansas City), Lynn Williams (NC Courage)

  • DNG

    7 forwards(including Lloyd)? Looks like Ellis will be sticking to the 3-4-3.

    • k

      She already confirmed her plans for a three back. And now just imagine one with Long and Kling

      • DNG

        After Sullivan’s injury I fully expect Long to move back to central midfield. Klingenberg is most likely going to be used as a wingback which I find ridiculous. I’m not a huge fan of Heath there due to her pace and Klingenberg is noticeably slower

        • Som Termanni

          Ellis said at the NWSL draft that the Long-at-CB experiment would continue through #SheBelieves. At that point Sullivan was already injured.

        • kernel_thai

          Maybe Killian gets a shot at Sullivan’s role. Most likely tho its Brian with Mewis off the bench.

          • DNG

            I’d like to see Killian get a shot. Mewis for me just isn’t a tempo setting player like Long or Brian. Killian was pretty good for SBFC in the pivot.

      • Arcie Tillydee

        I love Kling, but she doesn’t have the pace to play in a 3-at-the-back. Of the defenders called in, I’d say only Krieger Short have that kind of pace to cover the greater amount of ground needed in that formation (and I’m not yet convinced the latter has the accompanying rapid decision-making). Maybe Sonnett…she’s reasonably pacey, which I tend to forget (since the “other Emily” here in Portland is a fair bit faster).

        • DNG

          I think O’hara has the recovery pace as well but I’d guess we’re going to see Klingenberg tried there anyway. Tobin even is an odd choice for wingback.

          • Arcie Tillydee

            Ah, good point: Kelly’s got the speed, for sure.

            Looking at the call-ups, I’m not that convinced Ellis is planning on sticking with 3 at the back anyway. It just doesn’t seem like the right mix…

          • DNG

            It’s a mystery to me how Ellis who claims to be committed to a 3 back could go to SBC with such little wingback depth. Ohai would have been a good choice for that role.

          • DNG

            It also makes me wonder just how well Ellis understands the 3 back systems.

          • Arcie Tillydee

            Not well, IMO. It’s pretty basic to 3@tB that your outside defenders need pace AND quick decision-making. You also really should have quality, dedicated d-mids in front of them, probably in a double pivot. Ellis has never seemed to value the concept of a dedicated d-mid at all, so…

          • DNG

            Well she did call up Sonnett who can play as one of the 3 CB and I actually have wondered if Krieger could transition to CB as her pace starts to fall off. She might be able to play as an outside CB as well and her 1v1 defending skills would be a boon too in that position. I’d probably play with 2 defensive minded CMs in a 3-4-3 but I think a sole pivot in a 3-5-2 would work fine as well. I don’t really agree with the wide forwards she’s used in the 3-4-3 either. I’d much prefer she uses 2 attacking mids that can help link up with the 2 CMs.

          • kernel_thai

            I like Krieger and still think they would have been better served with her starting in the OG run with O’Hara providing an offensive spark off the bench. That said, I have to wonder at Krieger’s current role as a late game defensive sub. That spot would be better used for a defender who is 10 years younger who the team could develop.

          • DNG

            I don’t like the use of using Krieger as a kill the match sub. I would think about playing her as part of the 3 CBs as either a starter or a backup not a sub. She might be a good veteran leader too and has experience captaining her club. O’hara really should not be part of the back three at all. She’s an OB/WB/utility player.

        • CED

          LOL..Krieger… Short is quick but has the touch of an anvil

          • Breakers fan

            I need to see more of Short to determine the level of veracity in your proposal about her touch. Not willing to disagree or agree with you yet. I tend towards disagreement, but am not totally confident in that assertion.

          • mockmook

            Always smart to tend toward disagreeing with CED until given evidence 😉

    • kernel_thai

      She starts four of the six forwards not including Lloyd as Dunn/Pugh will play a midfield spot. So she is carrying 9 middies for three spots…got to figure two will be cut unless she just takes two keepers

      • DNG

        I don’t know how Ellis views the wingback position but I’m having a difficult time finding players on this roster I’d play there other than Dunn, O’hara and Heath. I don’t think that position is really suited to Heath’s game either.

        • kernel_thai

          Klingenberg fits better in the 3-5-2 than the 3-4-3

          • DNG

            Klingenberg would presumably be a wingback in both so I don’t think that is a huge change. The big change in those formations is the midfield and forward structure. Klingenberg is too slow to be a wingback in my opinion. She can’t recover against any player with decent speed.

          • kernel_thai

            Kling shouldn’t be here at all. Sh hasn’t played since September…why test her back here? Foolishness. Also don’t see A-Rods value in a 3-4-3

          • DNG

            Honestly, even at 100% healthy, I don’t see a place for Klingenberg in a 3-4-3. She may be there to provide a LB option in the event they need to change formations but she’s kind of a wasted roster spot in a 3 back.

        • guest

          Dunn is a fantastic wing back. Watch the u20 WC final game. She saves them many times. Recovery speed, 1v1 ability on the flank are great qualities in a wingback in a 343. Frankly I don’t think she is technical enough to play forward in a more technical and sophisticated style into which I would like to see the team evolve to keep pace with the world.

          • DNG

            Completely agree

          • #1Fan

            I agree. have said so many times. Again…flamed for it 🙂

          • DNG

            It seems we are virtually alone in this belief. At least on this forum.

          • rkmid71

            Not alone. I’ll vote in support of DNG and #1Fan on Dunn at wingback.

          • Fred

            Your a idiot. Dunn is complete waste in the back. Glad your not coaching this team.

          • guest

            Waste how? Contributes to attack in key games differently than ohai or other possibilities how? She is a great world class wingback as others also have seen. She is a rather one dimensional forward. No insults necessary to make your point.

            I am really looking forward to seeing how La Velle manages at the highest level, Hoping there is enough support that her sophisticated game can be best leveraged. She should click with Brian.

          • #1Fan

            Im with you on this guest. She could be best in the world at wing back. No chance of that at striker.

          • mockmook

            “WB” in a 3-4-3 (if that is what they use) is not really a “back” — it’s a OM, and is expected to go up and down the sideline and be very much involved in the attack.

            Regardless, even a WB in a 3-5-2 is expected to be very involved in the attack.

          • Steglitz49

            A sort of female “Magic Dwarf”?

            Now that he has announced his retirement, maybe Crystal can inherit his cloak?

        • Bill

          Where/how would you play Heath?

          Sometimes the way to organize is put the consistent best players in their best positions and churn the weaknesses to find the rising game. A lot of the weaker plays have a wider delta between their best and worst ( and performance deltas between being in top shape and not) so fill those in 2019?

          • mockmook

            For me, Heath is a tweener (for a 3 back system).

            Not quite fast and aggressive enough to be the “mid” Wing in a 3 back formation.

            Not quite deadly (and again, aggressive/selfish) enough to be an elite forward wing

            JE may actually be on to something by contemplating making her an OB in a 4 back. But, JE (and Heath) needs to commit to that for it to work.

            Bottom line, Heath does have the nice blend of skills as an OM in a mid 4, so this change to a 3 back system is not suited to her. But, I don’t think JE is really committed to 3 backs. Time will tell.

          • Bill

            Thank you for the thoughtful response

          • mockmook

            No problem.

            And, just to be clarify (if it needs clarification), I see TH as best suited as an OM in something like a 4-4-2, a definite starter.

            I don’t think she is better suited than, say, Ohai or Dunn to run the whole sideline as a WB/OM in a 3 back system.

  • Squeak

    What does this sentence mean?

    “The 16-year old Pinto began the year in U-23 camp, was brought to the senior camp afterwards and is not a heartbeat from dressing for a full national team contest.”

    What does “not a heartbeat from dressing” mean?

    • Arcie Tillydee

      I suspect it means they hit the “t” key instead of the “w” key.

      • Squeak

        Ahh…a typo. Didn’t even dawn on me that would be the case. Thanks!

        • mockmook

          Still, an odd phrase.

          We don’t want to be thinking a player has to die for a sub to get in.

  • guest

    no ohai

    • guest

      why are we sticking with ARod? I guess she has a guaranteed contract this year but still… she has NEVER been good internationally. in a bazillion caps she has a shamefully low goal tally for a forward.

      • sam

        WNT is still a big old mean sorority. Sucks for Ohai, would have rather seen her on the roster than ARod.

        • DNG

          Ohai and Arod do not play the same position. Ellis called in 6 CMs for essential two positions if she sticks to the 3-4-3. One of those CMs should have been replaced with a wingback.

          • kernel_thai

            If it’s still 3-4-3 then she has called two back-up 9s (Williams/ARod plus Lloyd who kinda plays there. Rod doesn’t help her at either wide forward or wide mid. Maybe Ellis is pulling another formation out of the hat.

          • DNG

            The 3 upfront tend to stay very narrow so Arod might be able to play up there. She’s also a good pressing player and can drop deep to hold up the ball assuming she hasn’t dropped off too much. Playing Press as a wide forward in this formation shouldn’t be as big of a deal as it was at the WC and even there she wasn’t horrible.

        • Esk22

          Doesn’t surprise me. JE opens a lot of can of worms if she cuts a USWNT player coming back from pregnancy, when the CBA provides a lot of protection for them and the USWNT generally gives returning players a lot of leeway to get back to peak fitness. JE is in a much better position to cut ARod later in the year if she isn’t up to snuff. If she does it now, it pisses off the players association and invites a lawsuit for discrimination. Doubt that JE is going to do that for Ohai, who isn’t likely to crack the starting lineup. I really doubt the last roster spot was Ohai vs. ARod. More like Ohai vs. the other lesser known players on the roster. I bet when Sydney comes back, then ARod will be very vulnerable if she isn’t logging a lot of international minutes.

      • Steglitz49

        Good PR.

      • guest

        I think the last time ARod scored was the 2014 Algarve cup.

  • kernel_thai

    Well pretty disappointing from the the let’s blood some new players standpoint. The two main additions seem to be Short & Williams. After that u get one of Killian/Pinto/Lavelle. Not much change, Jill.

    • Arcie Tillydee

      No Menges is my main disappointment, but I still think she will break in at some point.

      • Som Termanni

        Considering Jello’s choice’s, Menges is either about 4-8 years too old or 6-8 years too young to be considered.

  • Cc W

    No Pinoe – I’m sure her kneeling is affecting her time on the team. Her days are numbered.

    Tough for these players who are being moved off the squad. Engen must have realized that she can’t live on a small salary from Boston so now has to go get a job to live on for the rest of her life. Pinoe will soon be in the same situation, Hope is already there – selling her home and moving to a state with a lower cost of living – she knows her career is basically over as well. She has another year of rehab for her shoulder – unlikely she plays again.

    New players will take their spots and their money. I hope they are planning for the future.

    • kernel_thai

      Or at at least promising she won’t do it again is affecting it.

      • Cc W

        Have you heard her say she wasn’t going to kneel again? It feels like USS is done with any controversy – and all the current players are falling in line – or out.

        • kernel_thai

          Which is my point.

      • DNG

        Where do you play Rapinoe in the 3-4-3? The forward line is the only real option for her and there is already a huge logjam there. Would not be surprised if the younger legs took her spot for soccer reasons.

        • kernel_thai

          She backs up Heath on the left. Of course the best choice to back up Heath is Ohai who can play either side or outside forward. They seem to be stretched on the outside but lots of inside players.

          • DNG

            Rapinoe does not have the legs to play wingback and is pretty poor defender.

        • CED

          The bench

    • guest

      Oh please.. Hope is married to a retired NFL player and has been on the national team with endorsements for what, 15 years? They don’t have to worry about money or ever finding real jobs again.

      • CED

        He was an average player, retired in 2019 and tight ends are not highly paid, even less so back then. Solo’s endorsement deals weren’t Alex level and she has been come more and more toxic year after year. Solo is Uranium now. Yes, she will need to get a real job or live at a very low level for the next 40 or 50 years. Somehow doubt given her bad judgment in life in general that she wisely invested her money.

        • guest0

          retired in 2019

          your insight into the future is to be commended

          • CED

            Retired 2010…mistype 0 and 9 next to each other. Point is he was not a high paid player, he was mediocre.

        • rkmid71

          Uranium is a valuable mineral. Solo more like radioactive waste. Best sent to Yucca Mountain.

  • Tony

    Two forwards Dunn/Pugh and only one true flank midfielder Heath?
    Yet she cuts Ohai and Pinoe

    • Drew

      From what I can tell it’s as flank midfielders Heath /Dunn or Pugh as starters. Other is back up or going play forward. Heath is clear #1.

  • Jim

    Her starters right now are
    Naeher
    Short/Long/Sauerbrunn
    Heath, Brian, Mewis, Dunn
    Morgan, Press, Lloyd

    • Guest

      Yes but Kling and Pugh were not around. Also, when has Ellis ever favored Dunn and Press?

      • Heather

        Anyone with a brain would start Press and Dunn.

        • wosofan

          Dunn for sure.

        • guest

          Anyone with a brain would start Press and Dunn
          where is the evidence that Ellis has a brain?

      • Som Termanni

        Didn’t “Long, Dunn, Press to Short. Ohai!” happen last year?

    • AlexH

      Didn’t Long just get married? I wish she changed her name because it looks like we will have a few years of “Long passes to Short who boots it long….” from the announcers. I’m waiting for JE to call in Who, What and I Don’t Know for the next camp.

      • kernel_thai

        Hoping Sauerbrunn marries someone named Wright. : )

      • Steglitz49

        Some change their names, like Nécib to Cadmuro and Fenninger to Veith, Lira Alushi and Celia Sasic, while others stay with their maiden name for obvious reasons.

    • kernel_thai

      Maybe
      Short/Long/Sauerbrunn
      Heath/Lloyd/Brian/Pugh
      Dunn/Morgan/Press

      • guest

        Dunn Morgan Press Pugh is a LOT of speed for defenders to deal with. i think ELlis plan is to just throw a bunch of speedy scorers and lloyd and hope she doesn’t need a back line. we know she doesn’t give an F about defense.

        • kernel_thai

          Her plan is based on the fact that she can keep the ball in her attacking end by pressing good European sides who r good at holding onto the ball. I think this is dubious at best. If she can’t dominate possession and get easy shot due to the pressure, think she will find that a team made up of nine offensive players plus Sauerbrunn isn’t going to defend very well.

          • Steglitz49

            The reality is that top WNT are getting more even than ever. By WC-19 it may well be that the top 12 are almost interchangeable, which means that composition of the groups could be even more ciritcal than it was in WC-15.

        • Steglitz49

          She was rumbled in Brasilia, wasn’t she?

    • Steglitz49

      any Wide, Round and Rotund, as well?

  • #1Fan

    so Pinto further along now than Sanchez . interesting.

    • Paul Klee

      Maybe Ellis agrees with my opinion that Sanchez quit late in matches in the U-20 WC.

      • #1Fan

        Maybe. Strange that she would have her in camps since though. I just think we are desperate for CMs

      • kernel_thai

        To be honest, none of the U system players from this years WC should be on the senior team including Pugh. This isn’t about talent because certainly some of them have NT level skills already. To me this is about how u develop talent and part of that is having team success at the youth level. Im really afraid Pugh is being mishandled by Ellis. By handing her a role player role on the NT, Pugh has bypassed the valuable experience of earning ur way onto the NT through ur YNT accomplishments. If u throw out what Pugh did on the NT last year, I doubt she gets this call up based on her U20 performance. Now in many cases that would be fine but Pugh isn’t projected as a role player on the NT…she is considered the future star. She hasn’t shown me star potential at the YNT level so why would I think she will suddenly become a star on the NT? I think at this point she really needs to show some super star power at UCLA.

        • Paul Klee

          Too be honest I don’t really care that much about YNT competitions. The US player pool is so huge I think you could take a a random selection of 30 of the top 150 US women put them in a two year residency and they would be competing for major tournament podiums. Part of the problem is Jill Ellis has too many players to choose from.

          • kernel_thai

            But the true test comes against players from other countries. All I read before the U17 & U20 was about the young US stars and how the 20s had a starter from the NT on their squad. What I saw either this was all hype or US development really has no clue how they stack up against the rest of the world.

          • Steglitz49

            To be fair, it is not that easy to know who is who in the rest of U17 and U20 WoSo.

            Granted, given how tightly the SFs of the U19 Euros in 2015 were contested, maybe they should have been more aware but it was the North-Koreans who put paid to US U20 hopes and then Japan rubbed salt into the wounds.

            U17 is probably even harder to find out about and assess.

          • rkmid71

            There is no excuse. U17 may be harder to find out about and assess, but the thing the USA knows for sure is that they’ve never won the competition. Some years didn’t even qualify. The U20s got thrashed by Japan 5-0 and didn’t score any goals in some pre tournament friendlies. It hard to see this was anything other than all hype. No idea for what purpose. If US development had no clue after that evidence, they are out to lunch..

          • #1Fan

            So why have they not done that ? they have never won the U17 WC. Its not a residency issue. No one else in the world has residency and yet they do better than we do at U17 level. I think we overrate our players massively basis HS and Club competitions that are mismatches the majority of the time. We glorify kids who are successful at a level that is inconsistent, full of bad teams and elite ONLY in name. Just because mom and Dad can pay 7k per yr for travel soccer , does not make it elite

            I dont think we do have as many players to choose from as you do. I think thats the issue. We have invested in some players who have no real upside and no business being in these programs. Why? Because its not objective in many cases. We take the kid who is on the strongest team because her team wins. We dont scout players properly and we rely heavily on people who have a huge conflict of interest

            What is going unsaid is that the biggest endorsement for Pinto is coming from BJ Snow., a branch off the JE coaching tree , who has done less than nothing of note with the U17 team for 2 cycles. That vote clearly counts for a lot more tha the visual evidence of what other players have done at the Pro or College level.

            You really should care about YNTs becasue that is a great indicator of how kids perform when NOT in optimal conditions – best team, in comfort zone etc.

  • AlexH

    Oh so NOW Jill decides to move on from Rapinoe. She couldn’t have done it when she was manifestly unfit and the WNT had tons to play for, but now that she is presumably recovered and the US has a pefectly good opportunity to test her against some good competition with no actual risk JE pulls the trigger……

    • Cc W

      Very true!

  • EllisgoingEllis

    I’m still laughing at LONG playing CB and Broon playing outside back.

    • Anson

      Allie Long is listed as a midfielder. I understand what your saying, though. 3 back defense is easy to beat especially if you don’t have defenders and this team doesn’t have any defenders!!!!! Mark my words…..no defenders!

    • guest

      Dunn used to be a defender now she’s an attacker, at least Ellis is planning ahead JE’s game time decision and in game management is poor as evident in the olympics wasting two sub, subbing O’hara for Rapinoe then playing Heath in fullback.

  • guest

    So we bring up a kid who failed at her own age group? watch the first kickoff of the u17 Japan game where she plays a square ball to the right that is intercepted for an immediate counter. That’s full WNT tactics? She doesn’t even dominate club soccer. She did not handle either the Japanese or Ghana speed of play. So we bring her up? I don’t get it. These guys can’t admit failure and move on to correct mistakes. Instead we perpetuate them.

    Seems like they can now keep the status quo by saying see our YNT program didn’t fail because really the objective is to grow players for the WNT. See, we have 3 brought up from the U17 failed WC team. While the team failed, the program did not… carry on BJ strong work!

    • Bill

      Yup and proven player Ohai was cut. This coach sucks.

  • AlexH

    So basically any team that decides to put 10 behind the ball and just lump it to a speedy forwrad has a punchers chance to beat us now. our backline is really rocky and JE doesn’t seem to want to fix it.

    • Ashley C

      Because Jill struggles with tactics. Especially in game tactics.

      • kernel_thai

        Add rosters to the list. Starts with WCQ where Johnston doesn’t make it then gets added but doesn’t play a second. Then Dunn gets cut from the WC roster on the cusp of her MVP season. Then Rapinoe not only makes the OG roster but plays even tho 6 months later Ellis deems her not yet fit to play.

        • Steglitz49

          I thought it was Engen who did not play a second. As for Pinoe, I contend that other forces were at play and JE found it easier to go with the silverbacks.

          • kernel_thai

            That was WC…Johnston got added to the WC qualifier roster when Dunn got injured but Ellis didn’t use her once despite all the lopsided matches against CONCACAF foes.

    • Steglitz49

      It was not any old forward and not any old passer.

  • GT

    Thrilled to see Killian’s name. Overdue in my book. I also would have liked to see Dahlkemper included as well (perhaps instead of Sonnett or Short).

  • wosofan

    Pinto needs to get off this roster now.

    • Silver Frost

      I must be getting old because I don’t know who Pinto is.

  • Som Termanni

    Imagine being an uncapped midfielder in the NWSL for 4 years, performing well, and seeing a 16-year-old with an international lowlight reel on the senior team roster. That should be at the top of articles going forward when a quality US NWSL player retires at 26 and people still can’t figure out why.

    • guest

      I agree total travesty. This alone should contribute to the NWSL failure.

    • #1Fan

      When I alluded to this I was flamed. It says a lot about the perceived level of competition that kids who play ECNL soccer are deemed good enough at the expense of women who train and play for a living. Let alone College players who have excelled versus higher level competition. I bet Ohai, Colaprico and others are scratching their heads.

      • Som Termanni

        If all they’re doing is scratching their heads, they’re wasting time. They need to be on the phone with their agents trying to get transferred out of this tomato can league ASAP. The NWSL is demonstrably not a place for NT-caliber US players unless they were already on Ellis’s wish list as teenagers.

        • rkmid71

          I think that’s what S49 has been saying for a long time. Top college players should be looking (unless they were on JE wish list as teenagers) at Euro leagues or Asia or others if they want to keep playing soccer and have a great int’l experience at the same time.

          • Som Termanni

            S49 is nuts. He says that because he believes Europe is inherently superior in every way and he has a Japan fetish. Leagues that pay players more than the NWSL have an advantage, and right now that’s almost every other major league. The NWSL’s sole advantage was forcing the USWNT to play in it, and attracting quality US talent with the lie that it’s a path to the NT roster. Both are exposed right now, six weeks from the first-ever nationally televised NWSL season opener.

          • rkmid71

            S49 likes Japan’s 2011 “Golden Generation” team and believes Miyama has never gotten her due. Everyone would agree that soccer in Europe (broadly speaking) is superior, That’s where the money is, at least in BroSo. In WoSo, beyond the $ advantage (slight?) for most players, there is the experience of playing in same clubs as top Euro men’s players (i.e. the best in the world). That’s worth something if you love the game plus just the life experience of living overseas. Plus, in WoSo, Germany, France and England are 3 of top 5 WNTs in the world. Sweden, Norway, Netherlands and Spain are all in top 15. The WoSo players there aren’t bad. If more US players go overseas, I think that means fewer Euro players bother coming to the US to play in NWSL. And #1 player in world Marta plays in Sweden. Only a few Brazilian players are in NWSL.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you. The Golden Generation was something else, the likes we may never see again.

            Sweden knocked Norway, NL and CH out to get to play in OG-16. To be fair, a screw-up by the NL in defense opened the door for the Swedes so, maybe, the USWNT should gang up on the NL?

          • Steglitz49

            “Nuts!” — Steglitz acknowledges the grace and blessing bestowed on S49 by being compared favorably with Brigadier Geneneal Anthony ‘Tony’ McAuliffe who commanded the 101 Airborn Division during the defense of Bastogne.

            Please can s/he be likened unto a Pegasus too?

          • Steglitz49

            Hear hear! Verily and forsooth. Hound’s tooth.

            Thank you for remembering me in dispatches.

          • guest

            I am guessing the teenaged stand outs that aren’t favored are hoping there will be a change of guard in the next decade and may go to Europe in hopes of becoming that much better when another coach steps in.

          • rkmid71

            I would delete “in the next decade”. Perhaps if you meant by 2020, 4 years from now. Change in guard might be the only road to meaningful improvement. It’s not about any one coach though, it’s the program in general.

        • DNG

          If you are implying that the NWSL in a tomato can league, I don’t agree. Complains that NWSL performance doesn’t actually matter is a valid criticism.

          • Som Termanni

            It wasn’t one last year, but it’s flying down that path at breakneck speed now. Double it if the WNT doesn’t show up for the openers.

          • DNG

            I don’t agree many teams seem to be getting stronger year over year. Washington is an exception that torpedoed their roster for what seems like politically motivated reasons.

          • mockmook

            More likely the roster torpedoed itself for political reasons (if that is what is going on).

          • DNG

            I’m sure there was at least some fault on both sides and I have no intention of taking sides since we likely will never know the particulares. Whether it was justified or not It was ultimately management’s decision to deconstruct the roster.

          • Som Termanni

            How many more players need to leave for other leagues—or outright quit soccer—before quality of play is affected, do you think? The league’s somehow getting stronger by losing Little, Morgan, Dunn, Engen, O’Reilly, Lawrence, Buchanan, Kyle, Belanger, Fletcher, Winters, Edwards?

          • DNG

            You looking for reasons to support your narrative. Lawrence and Buchanan never even played in the NWSL. Morgan and Dunn are not gone for good. O’Reilly said she wants to return and even Engen didn’t completely shut the door by retiring completely. For every early retirement there seems to be a young player coming up to take their place.

          • Som Termanni

            “Lawrence and Buchanan never even played in the NWSL” because they’re off getting paid! “Morgan and Dunn are not gone for good” and yet they’re gone off for half or full seasons to get paid! “O’Reilly said she wants to return” but has no contract to do so and is missing at least half a season to go get paid! “even Engen didn’t completely shut the door by retiring completely” and yet she’s skipping the entire season to do literally anything but be involved with the NWSL! Edwards was a Sermanni WNT callup before her injury but somehow disappeared from Ellis’s list—hung in the league for years getting paid peanuts, stayed ignored, and retired for a day job! Fletcher jumped through hoops for 8 years for 1 cap and finally gave up to go to religious school!!! This is not a sustainable path for a so-called professional league to remain competitive!

          • Som Termanni

            It does nothing, nothing, nothing for a league to grind through four years of quality young talent at less than $39k/year before they bang off for literally anything but soccer! Nothing! The lie of the NWSL as a WNT path is the only thing that makes it as competitive as you say it is, and it’s coming apart before the money shows up.

          • #1Fan

            in most countries the passage to a Full cap is based on sustained and consistent excellence at a level. It just so happens that lvael in the USA is a YNT or NT training camp and invites to those are rare.

            I ask you, what did Ohai do wrong to be passed over?

          • Som Termanni

            About as much or little as Williams did to make the roster. Since Ellis doesn’t consider Ohai to be mid material, her main crime was apparently not being better than ARod, who hasn’t played in a year and will be 33 in ’19.

          • #1Fan

            I happen to agree, and thats the issue I have with this. Whatever Ohai did in the NWSL it bought her almost no equity.. It seems so random to me.

          • DNG

            On top of this, my second biggest issue with Ohai missing is that she seems to be the type of player that could be an effective wing back in a 3 back system. This roster Ellis just called in has almost no depth at that position.

          • Som Termanni

            Fleming’s just come out saying she won’t bother with this dumpster fire league because Europe’s better, even if Vancouver gets a team in it.

          • Steglitz49

            A wee tad bit arrogant? Inviting vengeance from the soccer gods?

          • Som Termanni

            Add Lloyd and Betos to the list, but sure, the NWSL is the most competitive league where the best players thrive. Or something.

          • Anson

            The NWSL is not the Best League in the World! Winning the NWSL is not even considered a feather in you cap. The money sucks, the Coaching sucks and the now the teams suck! US soccer is to blame!

          • mockmook

            What was the list the year before, and the year before that?

          • #1Fan

            I agree with DNG. The league is not a pushover, but it is ignored in terms of assessing performance. Again, aid this MANY times. performance in a controlled NT camp environment is rated FAR FAR FAR more relevant than dominating the same players in any league. I include youth leagues and professional ones in that .

          • rkmid71

            If true (and it seems obviously true), by definition, that makes one highly skeptical of the “controlled NT camp” …if league performance doesn’t measure up After all, no-one can observe the controlled camp. Especially when that’s how Boxx makes the WC team (and doesn’t play), how Rapinoe makes OG team (not fit), etc, Some players don’t even bother to play in the league (Wambach) or play when they feel like it. I agree same in youth. I’ve seen U20 YNT players do nothing in games and their teams routinely beat — of course, those results mean nothing to them individually once they’re part of the club.Maybe they would exert more effort if a member of the USSF coaching staff was watching?

          • #1Fan

            Ha. often they are and the excuse/reason is ” well she does not have the players around her to shine” . How about shining in spite of that? there are so many pre conceived ideas in the USSF that many many players start MILES behind others for no soccer related reason. They have to do it 5x as long and 2x as good to get a sniff. I have no idea why, but its an indictment of the process.

            I see no evidence that it is really changing. I want the coach to say ” im calling up xyz because she excelled in the U17 WC or she was instrumental in the success her College team had or her NWSL team was lost when she did not play. I rarely hear that. In fact the Colapricos and Ohai etc seem to have a hard time sticking . I cannot figure out why.

          • wosofan

            In Camp evaluation would seem to be the only reason.

          • rkmid71

            I get it. The “controlled environment”.

          • DNG

            I can see both sides of that argument though. Houston was arguably just as good(some have claimed better) of a team when Brooks played DM instead of Brian last year. I don’t think it’s an inditement of Brian’s ability that she has not been the star that was originally envisioned when she came into the league 2 years ago(personally I think she’s still been very good).

          • #1Fan

            Except with Brian there is a bigger sample size vs top competition.

          • DNG

            I was talking about the argument more generally not specifically for Pinto. I think there are situations where a good player could get stuck playing for a team were it’s not a good situation for them. The NWSL players don’t really have the option to move to another NWSL team as free agents.

          • #1Fan

            im not talking about Pinto either 🙂 A good pro makes the best of it . There are only so many times you can use the good fit argument before you become the bad fitting piece

          • DNG

            Make the best of it sure but you were talking about shining in difficult circumstances in which case I think the circumstances are important in evaluating. I agree that you can use that “excuse” only so many times but that would also require a decent sized sample.

          • #1Fan

            I think when evaluating, you have to go by what you see. I dont liike the idea of watching kids play and then making excuses for performances to then select them again and again. That is happening for sure. The YNT system is becoming far too static. Its the same kids over and over with very little evidence that they are doing better. We have become complacent in exaplainig things away. So far, I have seen almost no casualties from the U17 or U20 Wc. They are selecting the same kids and I find that shocking to say the least. The YNT system needs a massive shake up.

          • DNG

            I agree that you need to evaluate each player on what you see and I agree that the federation doesn’t give enough players a real shot. I would think crashing out of the U17 WC with the type of performances we saw would be reason enough to evaluate more players in those age groups but I guess that was too much to hope for. You could say that the full NT got pretty complacent as well over the years. We’ll see shortly if Ellis is actually serious about giving NWSL players a real chance. Ohai’s omission when the selected team is short fast wingbacks is surprising to me.

          • #1Fan

            Ohai selection now feels like lip service and now we are back to business as usual. I aslo think that now Gibbons et al are pros, they almost cannot be selected given the CBA rollover. I could be totally wrong in that. There are YNT camps upcoming. i think we will see very little in the way of new faces.

          • DNG

            It does feel like lip service but Lynn Williams and Allie Long have managed to stick around. Probably longer than most thought when they were first called up. Hopefully the federation insists on a much less restrictive CBA but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

          • mockmook

            I don’t know. The coaching/tactics for the U-20 and U-17 teams was so horrible, I don’t know how to properly evaluate the players.

          • Breakers fan

            Yes. If you can somehow – and it’s very, very hard for most — gain entrance into a NT camp you have entered magicland. But then you must play well. We have some “casualties” who can attest, to date, that magicland isn’t magical for everyone.

          • #1Fan

            I dont agree. I dont think you have to play well necessarily.

          • Breakers fan

            “play well” …I know what you’re saying. You certainly can’t suck day 1 and repeat that over and over. You caught their eye *by playing well*, unless they’re completely insane. I think what you’re saying is that if a player is earmarked as having special, rare, exceptional potential (by doing a bunch of things quite well, otherwise the earmarking would have happened) they are more tolerant of some mistakes, than a player they don’t view in that way. If that isn’t how you feel it works can you articulate how you think it does?

            Remember the Jessie Fleming article with Herdmann interjecting that the optimum way a very talented, athletically gifted young player can progress most rapidly is by playing with……the best, with… pros…..over in Europe or wherever. You and some other posters agreed that that is true – that *that* is the best path to help a young gifted player advance the most effectively, the fastest and best. Seems to me they’re doing precisely that with Pugh, Pinto, Sanchez, but it appears now you and others who appeared to promote that strategy, agreed that it was the best, now don’t like it. Again, if I’m misrepresenting your thinking correct me. And please refer to all the things I wrote on this thread that agree that others besides Pinto probably should have been chosen for this camp. I’m not someone you need to convert. I’m just trying to reconcile the apparently contradictory views that people put out there.

          • #1Fan

            The best SOCCER development would be become a pro. College is not there to develop soccer pros. So If any of these kids want to be the best they can be then a full time commitment to it a the right pro Club is the way to go. It has to be abroad becasue the NWSL has no ability to take HS kids.

            The elevation of kids to the US NT is a separate issue. If they have shown you that they can play a that level TODAY or in the near future, then Im all for it. I dont think that you develop players by elevating them to levels that they have shown no ability to date to play at. The NT is about current performance in my opinion, not future development. Thats what youth teams are for. Dominate there and EARN a spot higher up the ladder. Scrimmages just dont count to me. The US does not need to push kids up the ladder on the say so of a group who have shown us ZERO when it comes to developing successful youth teams.

            I think that the two views are not inconsistent with each other

          • Breakers fan

            Would you have an age minimum, based purely on principle, what you believe in, for when a female in the United States would, at the earliest, receive her first full national team call-up? Let’s say this player, like you have told me Pugh and Sanchez did, dominated her age groups for years. When would you permit that first call-up to happen, at what age for the player? Again, part of me is right here with you on this. Would you like to hear your view from someone who has been living within the system, so to speak, for years now. Thanks.

          • rkmid71

            I would say 18-19. At least HS graduate. And then only if they accomplished something exceptional. Like playing a major role in leading the U20s to a WC win or short of a win willing the US to a high finish with an exceptional performance. Or even a 18-19 yr old freshman in college doing the same for her college team in College Cup. It’s not like Mia Hamm days. We don’t need 15 yr olds on the NT no matter how good you think they might become. I recall the Dream Team conceded to put one token college player on the roster (Laettner). But he never played. Why is this any different? Lebron made it on Olympic team about that age — but he was Rookie of the Year in the league. And he still spent most of first OG on the bench.

          • Breakers fan

            Thanks. Makes good sense. Nothing against these individuals who have been called up. They should not feel guilt. They should be proud of what they’ve done. They just receive the phone calls here.

            Next question: Pugh. In your mind. What has happened to date. Your thoughts. Your answer would indicate that, despite how she’s risen in the ranks at her position, that they have made a mistake. Is that how you feel? I would have been fine if they’d waited with her. But I acknowledge that she has done very well. But……seems like around ever corner there is another “but”……she may have done even better had she been allowed to develop solely with her peers for another couple years. Is your feeling that they didn’t handle her correctly from the day they first called her up? (even though many would say their decision has proven to be the right one)

          • rkmid71

            The jury’s still out, but Pugh might be just a good player, not a great player. The competition has taken her more seriously and adjusted from her early days on the team. Although it often doesn’t sound like it, I’m actually a fan of Pugh. She has an unselfishness to her play that i think the USWNT needs — she plays with her head up, good anticipation and good decisions most of the time. And I like her explosiveness/acceleration. I would play her instead of Lloyd in AM any day. My questions about her are more about mentality, the intangibles, dealing with adversity, work ethic, wanting to do the extra to get better every day. Winning consistently takes something extra. It’s less about her development anymore — now she has to execute and perform, it’s about winning. I know she’s still new to the team, but what is she doing to make that happen. The USWNT had its worst team performance in history at the 2016 OG — in her first big event. She did pretty well, but again was it just a coincidence the team sucked? Why haven’t her teams won more? Something is missing. I think they’ve essentially given her huge opportunities and development priority — and I wonder about others if given the same opportunity. I’m not sure what happened with the U20s,but they looked woeful also despite all that prep and Pugh was part of that..I guess If someone is capable of more, I expect more.

          • #1Fan

            No age limit.

          • Breakers fan

            No age minimum, more precisely, I think you mean. Interesting.
            Then, do you agree with the Pugh call-up(s)? The Sanchez one(s)?

          • #1Fan

            I don’t yet see what others seem to. Sanchez did poorly in camp from what I hear. She is not in this group right ?

          • Breakers fan

            Just mentioning her as a young player who has gotten called up, since you said you have no age minimum, to see if you agree with the call-up. I see that you don’t, which is fine. I guess I’ve seen a lot more in her than you have. Not saying she’s the next Marta, just that for a 15, 16, 17 year old I have been very impressed. I’m totally fine with her not being brought back now. Glad, actually. No harm in her playing otherwise and elsewhere for a while.

            Do you also disagree, knowing what’s happened since, with bringing Pugh in?
            Or, you could put it another way: Knowing how Pugh did in her age group before she was ever called up, but not knowing how she would do after being called up (which we all do know now) would you, if you’d been a decision-maker, advocated for her to be called up?

          • #1Fan

            I get you. I guess my point is I have no problem with a kid being great at 15, 16 , 17 whatever. I just dont think that means that the automatic next developmental step is a Full NT Camp. I feel the same with Pugh. People say , well she was a success. But I still could argue it was not a positive developmental step.

            I was not overly impressed with either of them in The WCs they played in.

            Kilnsmann was very careful with Pulisic as is Tuechel at Dortmund. I dont see them rushing these young men in to full time starting roles because its not always good for their longer term development.

          • Calci0

            The NWSL is probably the most competitive WOSO league in the world.

          • Steglitz49

            Indeed. But the other leagues are more fun.

          • Calci0

            If you like 8-0 games, sure….

          • Steglitz49

            I presume you refer to the men’s WC-14 semifinal between Brazil and Germany in Brazil because it seems that all America enjoyed Japan losing 2-5 in the WC-15 final while the row slept and later just yawned.

          • Steglitz49

            Tinned pineapple?

      • DNG

        It makes no sense to me how Ellis rates Pinto higher than Colaprico. I just don’t understand the selection process.

        • #1Fan

          🙂

          Potential is a very tantalizing thing. The problem I have is this philosophy is not employed THROUGHOUT the National teams. It feels like now we need to have a IT player to talk about even it IT makes no real soccer sense.

          • DNG

            Getting players to realize their potential should really be the job of the clubs now that there is a stable league in place. NT selections should be the best players from that pool to fulfill the vision of the manager. I just can’t put my finger on exactly what type of team Ellis want the team to be. I’m totally fine with the team playing very direct too. Just make sure the direct players can break down a bunker when needed and move on from players when it’s time to move on.

          • #1Fan

            Not if those players are College/Club players. I agreew tioh your point though

          • DNG

            You’re right but like I think you said of sticking out in the youth tournament for Pinto, I think that same criteria should be applied when bringing up college players to the full team. I am not against Ellis calling in lots of players to experiment and gather information over the next year. How much can we really learn from the usual starters smashing Thailand 9-0.

          • kernel_thai

            Ellis is always talking about how import camp is to her decisions. Well Pugh and Klingenberg weren’t in camp. Neither has played meaningful soccer in months so I guess camp performance doesn’t mean that much.

        • rkmid71

          Isn’t it to allegedly give her the “experience” of the USWNT? And maybe JE thinks she will catch lightning in a bottle and Pinto will be another Pugh and actually prove she’s just as good? Or maybe she has been kicking the veterans rear end in training. What had Pugh done before? Certainly not lead the U17s or U20s to any accomplishment or even her ECNL team. And chose not to play at UCLA per USSF request.

          • Som Termanni

            Pugh at 16, after her U17 team embarrassed itself at WWC qualifiers worse than Pinto’s did in group, then went to the U20s and played enough to win a CONCACAF Golden Boot. A logical progression, sort of how a youth system is supposed to work. She didn’t fail out of a tournament and then would up straight on the bloody senior team!

          • #1Fan

            I dont think either embarrassed themselves. The point is they are given repeated opportunity at the expense of others? The question you should ask is why? Pinto did not fail out of the event, the team did.

          • rkmid71

            Som Termanni said the “team” embarrassed itself, not the players. But a player worth their salt has to own that as part of such a team. Also, winning the Concacaf Golden Boot is almost meaningless to me. Almost any US forward in her position would have done the same. Doesn’t Summer Green hold a bunch of scoring records for YNTs? I think the answer to “why” is that somehow those two players fit JE’s particular image or prototype — and therefore, even lack of team results doesn’t change things much. Basically,it’s like a coach’s playing favorites even in the face of repeated team failure and that player’s inability to influence team outcomes. They accept the team failure (citing development) rather than admit they might be wrong about players, pointing to other reasons outside their control — like teams and players from other countries getting so much better.

          • #1Fan

            If you are correct, then Pinto has become prototypical in Ellis eyes on VERY limited showings and vs whom ? I thought Sanchez was the prototype and she is not in at all. I assume she is healthy. its a hard one becasue it s a great achievement, but it is very hard to understand what differentiates her to the degree that a failure to dominate is overlooked for potential. Pugh and Sanchez were both dominant in the ECNL .

            I agree on the scoring stuff, they are meaningless numbers in CONCACAF

          • rkmid71

            Presumably based on the VERY limited showing in the January camp? Maybe her individual player assessment from the U17 WC was stellar? We’re not like other countries. I don’t see the need to bring in unproven 16 yr olds, when we have a huge pool of proven pro and college players.

          • #1Fan

            I watched the games. Stellar would be very hard to justify when we could not get any foothold in the center of the park vs Japan or Ghana. I go back to the word dominant. I would expect a candidate for the FULL NT to be a dominant presence in the U17 world cup. Im not looking to cut up tape to find signs that she can play, Im talking jumps off the page in at least 2 of the 3 games. I never saw that. To answer the Camp question IF she jumped off the page in camp, I would be even more skeptical and send her back to the U18s or U19s to see if she could dominate there before I put it down to any more than playing with better players.

          • guest

            I watched the japan game again I didn’t dvr the Ghana game and cant find it on the net. If anyone has a link for it i would appreciate it. Saw nothing remotely stellar in her play against the Japanese despite the commentators arguing to the contrary. I agree with below. The midfield was weak. Pinto was a big part of that weakness. When she didnt turn it over, she did not do anything exceptional than all of the top 20 HCM HER AGE in the country wouldn’t have been able to do. taking up a kid who on the opening whistle played a square ball to be picked off by the japanese for a dangerous counter should have immediately ruled her out. That was a really poor and childish decision. back to school not rewarded with the highest honor.

          • Som Termanni

            > Also, winning the Concacaf Golden Boot is almost meaningless to me

            Fine. Is it more or less meaningless to you than Pinto creating more than twice as many turnovers as chances in a loss to Ghana at the U17 WWC?

          • rkmid71

            Less meaningless.

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press embarrassed herself at the age of 27.

            Christen Press
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            Knockout Stage
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

          • guest

            She was terrible as a 16 yo in the u20 WC. She started at the 10 with Horan as the 9. Pugh was completely out of her league there. Then moved to wide forward and they moved Horan out of position as the 10 instead of the obvious move Lavelle up to the 10. Lavelle and Horan were the class of that team that went out in the first knock out game if I remember correctly. Korea DPR I think. Pugh has not been able to carry a team to success in difficult circumstances. That doesn’t mean she won’t someday, but she hasn’t yet.

          • #1Fan

            Not disagreeing. My question is why the repeated chances. I think Pugh is a VERY direct player. Good at 1 vs 1s but I have never seen the ability to combine effectively with others.

            Just my 2c

          • DNG

            How many americans would you say excel at combining with others are on this roster? Not many on that list of forwards. I suspect Pugh will improve in the right environment.

          • #1Fan

            I agree, but my question is still, why so any chances ? When i read teh reporst from some people I feel like I should be seeing a player who is much more rounded than I have seen so far. What earns you the right to “learn on the job” as opposed to being told to go away and get better.

          • DNG

            It’s an inconsistency I think needs to change now that the league has been pretty stable for 4 years. As others have said the coach and federation seems to cherry pick those whom they wish to give that chance. On some level it seems like Pugh is less incentivised to actually try and get better if US Soccer is going to act like she’s already here and a guaranteed starter.

          • #1Fan

            well put.

          • CED

            Your blind than.

          • DNG

            Do you have many examples of Pugh combining around the box in order to break down a defense. I can’t think of many off the top of my head. Only a few players on the USWNT actually look to combine as a first option. Pugh’s first choice seems to be to run at defenders.

          • guest

            I completely agree. I have had experience too with my child and the YNT program. What I saw was that some kids are invited, but not even put on the field during the camp for a fair evaluation, much less given repeated chances in the face of failure. While some kids are put on a pedestal and it is assumed that they are the best. It seems almost arbitrary on which kids are given this elevated treatment. Waste of the federation’s money to run camps like this. My opinion at least one of the 01s at the WC has no future at the highest level. Yet is going to be shoved ahead. I think the Summer Greene analogies are accurate.

            I agree that Pugh is very direct. The extent of her combinations is generally dribble to the endline after flying by a defender or two and cutting the cross on the ground to the 6 or PS. That’s all good, but very one dimensional and not in the least bit creative. There are creative magicians in the youth ranks. However, they aren’t called or they are one and done’s because they aren’t fitting with the “system”. What system is that exactly? What type of players are we looking for exactly?

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you for sharing your experience.

            It has long struck me how handsome and personable most females in sport are as opposed to the males. I contend that non-sports features like looks, deportment and interpersonal skills play a bigger part for the girls than we like to think.

            I call it the “huntsmen’s ball test” — would a redneck squire this lady to the Huntsmen’s Ball? — and the answer is an overwhelming: yes!

            Unfortunately, in a huge country like the US with so many girls playing soccer, at some point decisions will be arbitrary. That is no excuse for not letting plyares play and at least feel they got a fair chance.

          • Breakers fan

            Excited to hear that “there are creative magicians in the youth ranks”. I mean that completely sincerely. I hope they are noticed and given a chance. I doubt you will want to do this, and it’s completely your choice whether to do so, but do you feel like naming them? If you decline I will respect that decision.

          • guest

            Sorry can’t do that someone will say they suck or whatever don’t want to expose them to that. You might be able to find some of them from below. But there is one 03 who is way on the radar and combines very well especially for age, A couple of 02s (I think they may even be 03 play ups) who have been to camps and played with boys, These youngers have very well deveoped soccer IQ in addition to solid technical foundations to carry off their ideas. An 01 comes to mind and not one who went to the WC but one that has been consistently to several camps even playing up- I will look forward to watching her in couple years at the ’18 u17 where I will be surprised if she isn’t a starter. An 00 who I saw standing out playing up and completely fun to watch last year and I think was invited to a camp or two. I did look at a couple you tube videos after being intrigued at the event since she was unknown. That one is very interesting as she plays a very unusual male-like incredibly skillful type Samba game- probably one of the kids whose eval in the database was “doesn’t fit with our system”. A 99 who was in the mix early in the cycle and fell out of favor oddly. Has been extraordinarily successful in club soccer scoring and creating goals like no other. Has been playing up. Seems to fit the profile of tall and athletic with good looks, but is inexorably out of favor. Another similar 99 highly regarded and will impact the west coast in a couple months. And a 98 who is about to impact college soccer on the west coast. Her game is all about her combining with players to create opportunities. She has been to a very few camps I think from time to time. Not sure why she hasn;t stuck other than the don’t fit into our system excuse. maybe an athleticism question too but shes Pirlo with more style. Just off the top of my head.
            I would be surprised if i couldn’t make up a team of players that I have seen in the last year that couldn’t have beaten the U17 wc team handily. And pulled some younger players in just as old BJ did.

          • Breakers fan

            Hey, thanks a million for this. I *completely* understand your reasoning and in fact I agree with it, for not putting names out there. Just potentially adds too much pressure onto a young person. I’m sure they already have enough of it. I’m just thrilled that these players are out there! And I hope they keep playing, enjoying the experience, and that one day they are given the chance they deserve. Seriously. Though I don’t know who they are by name, I will definitely be rooting for them.

          • guest

            Sure. Honestly, I wish I could name them and get it out there how good they are and get the community to raise some noise back to the feds. I wonder if some that have one camp experience a year or less aren’t seen as personality issues or something because they are so much better, productive and entertaining, than what I see get consistent invitations I can’t believe there isn’t some thing else happening.
            Thanks for prompting me to think about this again.

          • Breakers fan

            Fascinating material. IF personality enters into this — and my guess is that the players you are thinking of here don’t have super-controversial ones — then I would be horribly dismayed at the nature of the brass of the YNT system. If there is corruption at that level, if clearly great players, ESPECIALLY ones who play in the style they keep saying they want to move towards, are getting snubbed for dumb, corrupt, extra-soccer reasons, then I will be really upset.

            All those players can do is keep playing and hope that their quality, or the USSF’s notion of “the system we want to pursue”, or however they phrase it, comes around to matching their games. That’s all the players can do. I hope they don’t get so discouraged that they quit the sport. Do you think there’s a danger of that happening with any of them?

          • guest

            I assure you these are real kids. Some have been in topdrwaer soccer articles and are out there right now so I guess its ok to name some of them. Someone will argue with me on my assessment so let me start with these are my opinions I fully admit it and I am sure others may see these players differently.

            The 03 Alexis Missimo has been written about on numerous occasions mostly on topdrawer so I guess don’t have an issue naming her. She is a UT commit as an eight grader (they have something like 4 8th graders committed now- I was OK with Missimo because as a Texan maybe she’s a long time legacy and has been dreaming about going there, but the others not as sure). I saw her at the u13 USYSA nationals.

            Regarding losing her: Unlikely. Missimo is interesting because she has had paternal soccer protection the same as Chrsitian Pulisic. A smaller physical late bloomer kid, In the topdrawer article about her written by Parchman, saying that she will be underrated because of her size. That doesn’t appear to be true fortunately.

            It is possible that she may have been lost in the “travel” ranks (where early puberty is king) had she not been managed by her soccer dad coach at Solar Chelsea. I see a pattern in how many creative late bloomers are probably lost without the protection of powerful relatives. Emmerson Hyndman and his grandpa at FC Dallas also come immediately to mind. Since some of the best and notable smaller, but often sometimes only late bloomer, and destined to be average or above average in size, playmaker technical kids seem to have soccer protection from coaches/parents, I can only assume that many, without such support, are lost.

            To your question as a corollary, I don’t think the following kids will be lost. One 98 has a notable father/coach also protecting her and is about to launch to a PAC12. The 01 is getting a lot of love right now from the feds and I think will be possibly on the pedestal in a few years which may be ok although I am like #1 fan and don’t think the pedestal is a great thing for lots of reasons. I think she may have been excluded as an 01 on this u17 WC roster because she is smaller than those who were chosen. Canniff’s height, but probably spots 15-20 pounds to her.

            The 99s are going to soccer powerhouses. One Catarina Macario (not exactly a playmaker though more a skillful and creative 9, but with the extra dimension of being able to combine) has been extensively written about due to her ability and Brazilian heritage and will probably rise up as she is now seeking American citizenship. She is back strong now from an ACL and fell off a little in the press due to her absence. The other 99 is going to a super power school and will declare herself in another year.

            The 00 is interesting in regard to your question and may sadly, in fact, be lost. I don’t think the feds have any idea what to do with a kid like this. I saw her playing up – she definitely looked younger against mine(I admit that I did in fact “stalk” her ECNL page and noted her birthday and a few accolades). I had several kids playing in the event and had watched a lot of soccer that weekend in hot weather. This kid really stood out and caught my sweaty annoyed self’s attention along with that of our sideline which was buzzing.

            Truly magical with the ball. My defender kid, who is well respected in her own right, was being scorched by this kid. Not only on the dribble, where she had amazing skill, quick and explosive with well above average speed, but she was making kids fall down with deception -not just with straight ahead speed like Pugh. Once the defender leaned she was done for- sliced and diced. Also creative with crazy scorpion kicks, back heels, flicks with every part of her body and unexpected penetrating passes also. There was a second kid with a high soccer IQ on the team and they were combining in crazy ways up and down the field. That second kid was at several camps in older age groups and has a great future too as an attacker. I have not seen a girl with this kind of touch and movement before. She really looked like a boy in her play style- controlled, ball appeared stuck to foot, and precise as I haven’t ever seen before in a girl. I hope she sticks with the game. Could be a quicker Tobin Heath someday although she would be wasted on the flank. One camp after the time I saw her. Just checked yesterday and no commitment is listed on the spreadsheet or topdrawer.

          • Breakers fan

            Thank you, thank you, sir. I love this stuff! I really thought what you said yesterday was totally above board and real. Never crossed my mind that you didn’t mean *exactly* all that you wrote until it was questioned, then my mind started overworking, I think. Anyway, appreciate everything you wrote. Fascinating. About this last player, the 00 who may be lost…….we can’t let that happen, if we can do anything about it. So, she’s 16 or 17 now. Not committed to any school. First, how odd is it that someone of that caliber hasn’t committed yet? That she hasn’t committed – any chance that means her parents simply can’t afford to send her somewhere unless she gets maybe a full ride?
            You said she HAS BEEN called into at least one YNT camp? Is that right? You also speak about adults, be they parents, grandparents, a mentor who steps forth, sometimes “saving” these kids. Is it possible she lacks such a figure? I talked about “we can’ let this happen”. I of course can’t do anything, but could you in some way reach out to her, if only to provide encouragement, in case she may need it? You have me very excited about this player. i want her to have every chance that every other good player has, and I’m just thinking of how to help her, if even in the smallest way…. even a social media sort of anonymous reaching-out could potentially do some good. What do you think? Realistically, I admit that many other factors are so much more significant and at work but you never know what may help a kid.

            Will look into the player you named to see if I can see some footage of her – thanks for that!

          • Breakers fan

            Couple other questions about her — do you think any prominent D1 program scouts were at that same tournament in which you saw her play?
            And you compare her to Heath – is she kind of tall like Heath – meaning closer to 5’8″ than 5’2″? Just curious. Thanks.

          • guest

            She looks taller and Heath-like but you be the judge. pretty sure they list heath at 5’6″. I just decided to google her since you have my interest piqued and I suspect this is now buried now deeply enough that not many will seize the opportunity to trash the poor kid which even though she won’t know it will probably make me feel badly anyway.

            She, or her family, posted some you tube videos with her name on them so I feel ok sending the links.They aren’t the greatest and it can be hard to pick her out they don’t circle or point to her. But there is some slow mo to clarify.

            There is one from CASL recently. There are two games shown. The vid says 4 goals and 2 assists in 3 games. three goals and one assist are shown. Frankly they are all pretty amazing.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_obXaf_NGE

            This is an older one but it’s longer and shows some of the scoprions flicks, backheels and ankle breaking etc that I saw. Neither of these are the events where I saw her.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrh52D24Q-8

            One of the 01s has a older video highlights with her name on it so I am OK posting that too. These two kids share a lot of characteristics. Including seemingly being outed.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7utYc9QM4g

          • Breakers fan

            many thanks. Have watched the first 2 so far. Criminal (!!) that she wasn’t in Jordan last Fall. ‘Nuff said. Is she the player who hasn’t committed anywhere yet? I have to think it’s not from lack of interest…..

            Will check the next video now.

          • Breakers fan

            I like player #2 as well. Only a Sophomore. I like her soft touch, her relaxed play, and the skills we see here.We are exposed to less play other than goals than we are with the 1st player but doesn’t mean the quality isn’t there. Thanks very much for this. I appreciate what you’ve done. You didn’t have to, so thank you.

          • guest

            It was easy actually since I remember their names. I just feel a little weird posting their videos, but i didn’t like being called a liar. They are both sophomores. Yes the first is not publicly anyway committed. There were prominent D1 college coaches at the game I watched. I personally have never seen a more creative player and I wonder if they just don’t know what to do with that flash? She makes Heinrichs seem like a hypocrite when she says we are looking for players who are strong on the ball and then they pass on her.

            The second is also a nice player. Maybe even better in person actually.

          • Breakers fan

            I really appreciate it. That first player especially I will now never forget. The notion that Heinrichs and co. may not “know what to do with that flash” – you may be right, but if that’s the case then I find that pathetic and inexcusable. Revolting. I have little sympathy for them if they are knowingly passing on players like this or ones close to her.

            The second one, yeah, I wish they’d shown more of her play other than the goal shots, though those were very good too.

          • guest

            Glad someone validated my opinion; thanks for confirming your opinion that #1is a magical player and from the highlights #2 is at least interesting. I think #1 fan knows the YNT landscape at this age better than I do. But she is the same birth year as Pinto one year behind in school.

            With the YNT performance in the midfield what might have been comes to mind here…

          • Breakers fan

            So darn easy to validate that opinion. 🙂 I’ll be rooting for her. Imagine – Pugh and Fleming and Sanchez could potentially have a year or two with her if she becomes a Bruin…

            And to your last sentence I can only respond “indeed.”

          • mockmook

            Thanks for posting the videos.

            The first girl is outstanding technically and they both exhibit high soccer IQ.

            I can see why you are impressed with them.

            But — there’s always a “but” 🙂

            Would need to see how they defend etc to say whether they are being unfairly bypassed. Still, they both show enough that they should at least be seriously evaluated.

          • guest

            Yes that’s fair enough. However I saw #1 at an event between the two videos. She was playing up against 99/98 players. Her coach moved her around a good bit, from midfield to forward, but she spent the majority of her time as a box to box midfielder (#8). Her defense was outstanding actually causing problems all game. She has very quick feet and was poking the ball away and generally disrupting and annoying our players. She is also very good in the air. I don’t understand how Heinrichs can say we are looking for kids who are strong on the ball and technically sound and let these kids go. I am a little concerned for #1 since there is no commitment listed. I hope she doesn’t end up at a second tier school because she’s been largely overlooked by the soccer coaches. #2 going to Duke so will have plenty of time to show if shes of the quality.

          • #1Fan

            Mentioning names is fine, but highlight videos are dangerous because the take the touches out of the context of the game. Ive seen McInroy play a few times. Just my opinion, she needs to learn to play simple and use the skills and flair effectively vs better competition. She has potential and needs to be guided well. The best thing about her is a little anecdote. I know that after our teams played she sought out our coach and asked him for an honest assessment of her game and how she could improve. Love that attitude. I think she will do well in time.

          • guest

            I really appreciate the insight. The story is great and I hope that character helps carry her through challenges. No sure when you saw her I saw her near the end of the 15/16 season and she was playing up against our team which is a highly ranked champions league team. Certainly adequate competition. She did not often lose the ball at all and used her skill well. No kid is perfect, but she wasn’t that kid who dribbles and loses it every time. In fact she played a lot of one touch passes that were unusually skillful. If after contacted your coach she made some adjustments then good for her. Maybe she is making progress. Well thanks again always great comments.

          • rkmid71

            And it also always depends on the competition. Like other leagues, ECNL has a very wide variation in team quality. If this was top team against another top team, that would mean more. The biggest difference between top teams and lower teams is athleticism and speed/quickness. Many can look good against lesser teams.

          • guest

            Also forgot another 01 uber skillful high soccer IQ kid that has recently been dropped off the camps list. More athletic than her Pirlo esq 98 clubmate, This same club seems to breed creative midfielders. Unfortunately also known for these players having a lukewarm reception by the USSF. Tons of potential to possibly become a Iniesta type playmaker. Great first touch and excellent off the ball movement. Deception and finishing. I don’t think will be lost because just committed to a ACC powerhouse. Will have a chance to shine with other similarly talented players around her.

            The 02s I will watch out for to see if they were included in the last camp or not. I think there has been an 02 camp this year, but I admit I didnt check the roster. I will update when I do

          • Breakers fan

            Thank you. Glad to hear of another great player. Strikes me as VERY ODD that players like this aren’t being kept on in camps, seeing how all the talk is about moving *towards* this kind of player. Very disheartening.
            You and #1Fan and rkmid are our only inside links to the youth scene so it’s great to hear about who is out there. Appreciate the upcoming updates. When and only when you think it’s ok release the names of the players could you do that too? No rush. Even if that takes years. I would just like to be able watch these players if I can. If you do provide updates can you reply to me at that time, just because right now so many people are ‘guest” I have no way of picking you out of a crowd, unless you were to choose a more specific guest name – your call. Thanks again.

          • #1Fan

            I have watched many ECNL games. There are maybe 7 kids who i have seen dominate games consistently. Kids who are clearly the focus of the other coaches to try and stop. Macario, Pugh, Sanchez, Bright is big powerful kid – similar to Cheyna Williams. Sample is a really good defender who can play out of press and does not panic.

          • mockmook

            I *completely* understand your reasoning and in fact I agree with it, for not putting names out there. Just potentially adds too much pressure onto a young person.

            Poppycock.

            No kid is going to be “pressured” by some comments on the EQ.

            I’m sorry, but this is the same technique that #1 uses — raves about all these great players being bypassed and never names a one. How does one separate comments like that out from total BS?

          • Breakers fan

            I just think it’s safer to avoid putting names out there. An example of “discretion is the better part of valor”. It’s his or her (the guest poster here) prerogative to treat this subject in the manner he/she chooses. Granted the EQ and whatever ripples it MAY cause out in the world (it’d be tough to do an accurate study on this) are probably small to non-existent but it all adds up when the internet is involved. I prefer protecting kids to having my whim to hear these names satisfied. It may be nothing but it’s more about them than it is about me here. You’re right I’m assuming the post wasn’t a complete fabrication. Possible that it is, though it passed my most basic smell test. Fiction writers have come up with pieces of writing in such a vein and I really hope it’s not one of those. It did seem slightly odd that this guest, with this amount of knowledge — pretty frickin’ deep and widespread knowledge of great unsung young players across the country who are maybe being mistreated — just popped up here in this thread for maybe the first time, so yeah, for now, all we have is the possible notion that great young creative players may be out there and we may never see them because they may never be chosen for camps. It felt convincing in all its detail, but again, a great writer could pull that off. So I hear ya…:-) I took it at face value in an act of good faith, with the hope that as time passes that maybe we’ll be informed, as in “THIS is one of the players I was talking about.” Let’s hope for that.

          • HOFCToDi

            2015-16 NCAA Sports Sponsorship and Participation Rates Report

            http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/PR1516.pdf

            328 Division I Women’s Soccer Programs (page 119)

          • Breakers fan

            He/she is talking about players aged about 14-17, not sure if you noted that. The info is in the post in which he/she gives birth date years. It’s definitely possible that what he/she writes is true. It’s a huge country with tons of players. I hope it’s true and that we see the players that are referred to someday.

            What I like about your post is how it shows how many graduating college Seniors who played soccer are out there. To think that the NWSL draft, with the teams’ absolutely meager resources to scout this country, picked precisely the best 40 players and that none beyond those 40 have a prayer to make the League. It’s ludicrous to think that that is true, in my opinion.

          • HOFCToDi

            Instead of relying upon an unnamed source, the following link documents the mentality of the college recruitment process:

            http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/02/as-a-womens-soccer-nation-we-have-a-skill-problem/#more-40665

          • Breakers fan

            I’ll check it out. The video there is cool – what a great goal. I still love the post made by an unnamed person, assuming it’s true and I think it is – who cares if we get an internet name attached to it. The person sounds familiar with some amount of the top levels of youth players here and thinks he’s identified some great playmakers, creative players with top-notch ball skills. That is enough to excite me. Just hope one day when he feels they’re old enough we get the names so we can enjoy what he has been enjoying.

          • HOFCToDi

            If that is the case, the so called player will emerge in the collegiate ranks whether in Division I, Division II, Division III.

          • Breakers fan

            I see where you’re coming from now…that no matter possible present-day YNT snubs, quality will come out, will emerge, the cream will eventually rise to the top. I think that’s true but…if such a player isn’t on a powerhouse college program, for whatever reason, it will one day take a brave scout to not care about that and give her a chance anyway – if we’re looking ahead to post-college and NWSL days.

          • HOFCToDi

            Rose Lavelle played for Wisconsin. End of story.

          • Breakers fan

            Christie Rampone played for Monmouth University – the 3rd variation of the story’s end.

          • rkmid71

            And with these players that emerge through the ranks. I imagine that would happen by conference as the coaches in those conferences will see first hand who the most impactful players are. There are about 30 D1 conferences. You could create a conference all star team. Maybe the P5 conferences get 2 teams. And you have a post season post College Cup showcase tournament with a big prize…you have an independent respected panel of experts (a technical committee) pick the all tournament 1st and 2nd team Players selected are invited to YNT or WNT camps — if not already in those camps I want to see who rises to the top in competition. D2 and D3 can also participate, but get fewer teams.

          • mockmook

            Looking back at the draft, I was struck by how few of the players went to “small” schools — the players almost all come from “big” universities (either by size or reputation).

            Marquette (Proffitt) seemed to be the “smallest” school represented.

          • Breakers fan

            Glad you noticed that. I didn’t really take a final look at the schools all the draftees attended. Fascinating, but not terribly surprising. It corresponds to the level of resources teams have, I would say. It would have been great had their been a couple small(er) school players chosen. I wish the draft were about 6, 7 rounds. I know in earlier pro women’s leagues it was. Let’s see how Proffitt does. And there is always the chance of a small school player catching on through Discovery or a tryout camp.

          • #1Fan

            The Ivys must be considered small schools surely

          • Steglitz49

            Margaret Purce chose Harvard over and idea of going to Virginia, I think. It was her dad who suggested that she should go to the academically best college. Now she got drafted in the first round. Maybe the Ivys will grow?

          • mockmook

            Small in size, but they have the academics, the dough, the reputation, the facilities to attract top recruits.

          • #1Fan

            Academics and reputation yes. The rest, not really.

            Dough – yes to travel and recruit but not to offer kids. No scholarships. Its all means tested. The best they can do is lower SAT/ACT requirements.

            Facilities – No

          • Steglitz49

            Margaret Purce did more thank OK, did she not? Now one has broken the barrier.

            Academically, Stanford and Berkeley are as good as Harvard and better than Yale.

          • Steglitz49

            Hear hear! Margaret Purce will not be the last one.

          • mockmook

            I understand your perspective, and I want to believe what people write.

            But, as much as I’m critical of the USSF, I find this type of criticism by omission to be distasteful and unfair — more unfair than the “outing” of allegedly super-talented kids will ever be.

          • Breakers fan

            Have to agree that names appearing in this jungle of posts in an article that will fade soon into the mists of this website would likely have zero effect out in the world but it’s not my call on whether to put names out there or not.I respect the decision made. Could be somewhat superstitious but I respect it still. As you know I too have superstitions about posting names at times. 🙂

          • guest

            Scroll down I named some names and posted a couple of videos. Just my opinion on these players and you would of course be entitled to disagree with my assessment.

            No troll here. You are right buried in this and unlikely to see the light of day. Also some are well written about and if you post a video on youtube with your name on it its fair game.

          • mockmook

            “You are right buried in this and unlikely to see the light of day.”

            I’m afraid you have lost me with that phrase — I don’t follow what you are saying.

          • guest

            You accused me of making up information on this site because I was reluctant to name names regarding creative kids some who may be overlooked. You said that naming names on a site like this wasn’t dangerous. This thread has a lot of comments and my comments are buried here within pretty deeply an unlikely to be widely read. If it matters to you I posted some names and videos of a couple kids whom I think may have been looked at and passed over. One of whom really impressed me more even than in these videos which themselves are pretty impressive. If interested continue down reading the recent comments between myself and Breakers fan. If not interested… carry on.

          • mockmook

            “You accused me of making up information on this site because I was reluctant to name names regarding creative kids some who may be overlooked.”

            I did not.

            What I did is maintain a healthy skepticism of any unverifiable info (and that info is just an opinion anyway, and not a fact).

            And, I noted how unfair it was to criticize a Coach or Organization based on “secret” players who are allegedly better.

          • Breakers fan

            Dude, my advice: don’t argue but rather just scroll down and watch the videos, and be thankful for them. They’re a gift from cyberspace. Doesn’t happen everyday.

          • mockmook

            Is it wrong to point out when I’m accused of something I didn’t do?

            Anyway, as noted in another comment to “guest”, I have watched the videos.

          • #1Fan

            Surely this is that nature of an anonymous forum? It is up to the reader to attach whatever credibility he wants to what is written. Naming names adds no more credibility. AS I wain above, I dont have much of an issue with WHO they choose, I have an issue with choosing the SAME kids over and over when there is no risk in widening the net. Im not criticism them basis secret players at all. Here is an example

            BJ Snow brought 2 kids into the last U17 Camp pre WC. Mclleland and Holland. They have never been invited to camp before. How can you do that at the last camp pre tournament? How do you keep essentially the same kids for 2 years then on the eve of the event, add 2 new names? surely thats the wrong way around, you ID for the first 18 months or so, then you focus on your selections? He ended up taking the GK to the WC, basis 1 camp. Does that seem right to you? On the CB, Holland, if she was so good and needed to be give a look, what has she not been invited to any camp since?

            My comments on youth are broaden the base. Evaluate more kids. Maybe the GDA will cure that

          • Guest

            Saw the u18 roster today. Yup same old same old.

          • Breakers fan

            No, it’s not wrong, sorry if I overstepped my bounds. I had already seen the videos and was grateful for them and didn’t want the guest who provided them to get alienated from any kind of harshness or negativity. Glad you watched ’em. I’m going to see what your response was…

          • rkmid71

            College should flush this out. Or not — they might just ignore college performance..Did you know that Jane Campbell’s 2016 save % was .745. That’s 9th best in the Pac12. Good enough to earn a callup to the WNT. Having been in the weeds for years, I think it’s accurate to say there are great players bypassed for unknown reasons. I don’t even think USSF would deny that. Especially given the woeful performance of the YNTs, why they don’t simply bring in more of those players into camps for a closer look is a mystery. The players they initially have chosen haven’t distinguished themselves. I’ve gone out on a limb and named one. I expect to name others (that I watched over the youth years) as it becomes obvious based on college performance and anyone can watch their games. These are players that I’ve witnessed repeatedly outperform players picked for the YNT pools. I expect that to continue.

            Separately, it’s a mystery to me why a player like Savannah Jordan isn’t getting more opportunity — a consistent proven scorer that assists as well. That alone is enough to give her a long look in my book. It’s not like the USWNT has great finishers. Maybe she didn’t score well on a beep test?

          • mockmook

            I agree that something is rotten in “Denmark”.

            But, I try (when I remember to) to name alternatives either in players or formations or tactics, whatever.

            The exclusion of Jordan also puzzles me. She seems to have a nose for goal, an “intangible” will to get off a good shot and to often score. If she wasn’t set on going overseas, I saw her as #1 in the draft.

          • rkmid71

            You mean Kæstur hákarl? Or is that Iceland? A b-school friend from Iceland convinced me to try it. Fortunately I did not gag “involuntarily”. The aquavit helped I think. Iceland men’s FIFA world ranking #20 (population 333,000) USA #29 (population 324 million). Iceland’s ranking in 2010, just before JK started as coach for USA in 2011, was #112 while USA was #18.

            Iceland women haven’t progressed as fast as men. They are #20, USA women #1. Iceland has more UEFA trained coaches per capita than anywhere in the world.

          • guest

            check these out these kids had a look (first) or two (second) and were then excluded
            first one is an 00, second 01
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_obXaf_NGE
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrh52D24Q-8
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7utYc9QM4gt

            #1 fan thinks that they are on the radar and might get invited back sometime, but we have all noted that they seem to stick with the same players as some sort of confirmation of their ability to identify talent. These kids should be the ones at repeat camps much less considered for wc roster. The second was too young and maybe we will see her jump up in status as the u17 (01). The first doesn’t seem to even be committed (2019) so I think is maybe being lost to the system.

          • rkmid71

            I don’t know about being lost in system. Maybe the YNT system if that’s what you mean. Maybe they don’t have the ideal club or coach connections. Might want to move to Colorado. In terms of college though, it makes no sense to me why either a player or a college would “commit” in 8th or 9th grade. What does that even mean? NOTHING. Maybe that they physically developed early so can stand out more easily? Just because a good player doesn’t commit early doesn’t mean they’re lost. To me, it means they’re smart. Purce was in the YNT system, so going to Harvard was a bit less risky from a soccer perspective. Otherwise the perception (incorrect I might add) might have been no one at Harvard or any non Power 5 college is good enough for the NT…notwithstanding examples like Akers, Rampone, etc.

          • guest

            Gotta say, I think that the days of Monmouth etc producing national team players are probably limited if not over. I think there will be more spread among the power 5 than in the past, but the non power 5 players hitting the regular NT in my opinion will be rare. The examples that you are citing are from another era.

            I think #1 fan has some insight as to why she isn’t a regular in the YNT ranks. Her club regulalrly sends kids to YNT camps and one was on the u17 WC team. She is flashy and although I did not see her turn the ball over often and she used her magic very efficiently against my kid’s team, I can see her irritating the “play simple” crowd. Personally, my observation was that she captivated many of us on the opposing sideline and maybe this is what we need- a little more style in WoSo to add some fun and entertainment.

          • Breakers fan

            The key is “I did not see her turn the ball over” – any scout worth his salt would focus on that aspect of her game as well. I’m very disappointed in their decision to date on this player. Hope it changes. The conservatism, if that is what it is, is pretty weak and unconvincing to me. And the word “flair” – I don’t really like it. What she has is ball control skills. She uses those moves to keep the ball and get away from defenders. It’s practical.

          • guest

            She has a command of the ball that I have seen in no other girl. She also moves very fluidly with rare balance and coordination. They may be highlight videos from a few games, but there is plenty there to see in how she moves with the ball which is highly unusual. She is very two footed also. CASL goals with both feet. Barcelona youth scouts say they only need to see a kid moving with the ball at his feet for a few minutes to see what they need to see. Even more impressive actually in person. I really am confused on this one. The u18 roster (00) birth year just came out and she isn’t on it…

          • Breakers fan

            You described her quite well. I completely agree with you. If she were a California or…Colorado (from what I see) girl what are the odds she’s on these teams? Very disappointing news you report here.

            Fascinating about what Barcelona youth scouts say.I think the essence of that is true. I said that about Dunn here a couple years ago – some players you really don’t need a lot of time seeing them. Others – it helps – just to confirm or refute your initial thoughts.

          • rkmid71

            It’s interesting, to me at least, that the NFL (really all the big money sports) has many many players from lesser name colleges. Hall of Famers like Rampone. And the NFL invests millions in scouting and player evaluation and often doesn’t get it right. Do you think WoSo is different and all the top players go to Power 5 schools? Many factors go into how players choose colleges. The talent pool has never been deeper and more widely spread. In another era, there weren’t as many top players and UNC got many of them (hence all the National Championships). DiCicco found Rampone in an era when the talent pool was smaller and more concentrated. On a recommendation of a coaching friend/colleague, gave her a shot, and turns out she’s a Hall of Famer. There’s got to be even more Rampone’s out there today.

          • Breakers fan

            Note: I did some research of my own and on player #1, from the San Diego videos, she has a “hudl” page with a bunch of videos of her goals. On that page it says she is class of 2018. Is it possible you’re mistaken about what year she’s in?

          • guest

            On the sideline we got a team brochure that said 2019. I just checked the PF team page and it says 2019 also

          • Breakers fan

            Interesting, thanks. I guess the “hudl” page is in error, then – which is odd. Makes more sense she’d be 2019 if she isn’t committed yet.

          • guest

            here’s the ECNL link. Not sure what’s up there.
            http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/member-clubs/

          • Breakers fan

            Right – 2019 there- one page is in error, hard to know which, but would guess hudl is wrong.

          • #1Fan

            Not fair…I dont really rave about many youth players. Show me where I rave about a bunch of youth players ? point is that there should be a lot more rotation. There are many good players in the top youth leagues I feel that the USSF should be giving as many of them a look as possible. Thats my position on the matter

          • rkmid71

            Agree about broadening the pool. There must be something hindering such a common sense choice. As you say above, I do think the GDA is an attempt to concentrate the talent and make it easier to ID players. HS can be lame and not helpful to player with NT aspirations — but that’s not always the case. I think GDA should be more flexible, at least at the beginning so as not unnecessary exclude some players that want to play HS.

          • guest

            The best players will want to play in the DA. They will work and sacrifice for the chance at the holy grail. The USSF will get the top I think. It’s the next level that receives tons of accolades in high school name in paper, but is a role player at the ECNL level that will waffle. The next tier kids will want to play on the “A” team and may fill in most rosters. With the sub rules being more restrictive.

            Possibly there will be a wider standard deviation in talent in the DA (as if that could actually be measured, but you get the point I suppose). Will be interesting to see how this goes come tryout time.

          • #1Fan

            They will tell you they are, by allowing them to re-apply once HS is over.

          • HOFCToDi

            You are a moron.

          • HOFCToDi

            You are a clueless moron.

            FIFA Top Ten Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Assists Provided
            Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998) – 3
            Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 1

          • Breakers fan

            Interesting. Will watch for this going forward. Not disagreeing, just something I haven’t really noticed, per se. That said, my first image of her is one of charging forward, which can and does have great results at times, as her speed enables success with this tactic fairly often, and did to a much greater degree, I’m sure, throughout her life, to this point.

          • #1Fan

            OK, so then what is the criteria for selection? Is it now make a YNT WC roster and then hope for a golden ticket irrespective of performance AT said WC? Thats a very dangerous road.

            I get that the coach can do whatever they want, but this “maybe they saw something” response is hard to understand. the point being to be considered NT worthy at 16 the MAJORITY of us should see something. It should be that obvious.

            AS an exercise for the devoted., I would love you to go back an watch the U17 WC games and tell me if it was obvious that she was a standout player in those games.

          • rkmid71

            Criteria for selection? No matter what they say, I don’t really think they have any set criteria. At the moment, it’s whatever JE wants it to be and could change day to day or week to week. And the hype machine then rationalizes the choices after the fact. It takes a VERY LONG time before actual performance becomes a factor in dropping someone — that much is obvious. Mockmook says we can’t even properly evaluate actual player performance because the coaches are so bad. So the end result is that as long as the same coaches are still there, the players are never really accountable and actual performance is meaningless. Can you imagine the hype if those YNTs had actually won the WC? Btw — I like the Belgium 6 criteria. I would be explaining choices against those criteria.

        • Breakers fan

          It has something to do with the (really) long-term look at the team. Doesn’t mean it’s right or that she’s better *now* than a bunch of other midfielders. I’m with you here, trust me. I wish K. Mewis could get another look but we can deduce that Pinto has impressed them to a good enough degree that for now they want to get her as much experience with the Senior group as possible. That’s the route they’re going, with her.

          • #1Fan

            I dont agree on that. A really long term look does not need to be implemented by handing out roster spots to 16yr olds. The development can take place at other levels. Its a dumb plan for many reasons – the most glaring one being the lack of a single dominant performance ON AGE in a meaningful YNT game. The coach can do whatever she chooses, But this policy has no sense and totally undercuts any form of merit based selection. If a U-16 ECNL game is equal in relevance to a College or NWSL game , then they need to hire 200 more scouts and go to more ECNL/College games 🙂 There are players performing at the same level as she has in that environment week in week out.

            The Pinto has impressed THEM is not really true. If it was, why was she no on the U-20 team? I think the reality is that Pinto has impressed Snow and he has talked her into a U-23 camp. At that pioint Ellis saw something she liked. All fine and dandy, but no one is going to convince me that this HAS to be done NOW. There has been no PLAYING evidence that this is a matter of urgency based of her inability to find a challenge at her own age.

            I think she has some potential I disagree with the manner in which they are developing it and I think it could backfire in a major way. This is not how you groom talent AND keep your existing pool of potential NT players hungry and motivated. it re-reinforces the perception that this CLUB has back channels to membership that have nothing to do with performance AND that is not a good thing ESPECIALLY when membership of this club has huge financial ramifications.

          • Breakers fan

            Last paragraph is, in particular, powerful. Thank you for that – very insightfully and incisively said. I agree with you. I wasn’t so much defending their move as trying to explain it. One can deduce perhaps that even at age 24 or 26 the USSF may have, evidence at present showing, written off many very good players and I bet they’re wrong in doing so, – not evaluating correctly. Nevertheless, I am excited to see Pinto. I do put some faith in their evaluation of her. Not saying she needs to be in camp at age 16. Just saying I want to see her play more now. I may go back and look at game film of her. Have you seen her play a lot? Your thoughts on her?

          • Steglitz49

            Given the huge number of young ladies playing soccer in the US, the write-off of many of those aged 24-26 is inevitable and will to som extent be arbritrary.

            What is fascinating is how handosme, comely and charming the majority of ladies in sport are. Maybe those are selection criteria along the way to success.

          • #1Fan

            Seen her play ..a lot. Good young box to box midfield player.

          • DNG

            Seems to be a player Ellis would want to develop quickly but like you I am skeptical this is the most effective way. I probably haven’t seen her play nearly as much as you but I wasn’t saying that she(or any U17 player really) needed to be moved up to the full team when watching the U17s last year.

          • guest

            I have seen her many times also. I have yet to see her even take over an ECNL game much less stand out positively in a competitive u17 WC match. She came on I think at the NTC event in 2015 and scored maybe her only international goal ever in that event, I think maybe against Japan, I don’t remember for sure. It was an impressive strike from a late run out of the midfield at about 20 yards out and I think that moment secured her future. There are better box to box midfielders on 2000 brth year ECNL teams right now much less NWSL teams, yes JMHO.

          • Breakers fan

            and….what you saw was….? If someone said “Pretend you’re a scout employed by the USSF. You have found a player they aren’t aware of but you think perhaps they should be. Write a paragraph giving your description of her, (Brianna Pinto here) as a player.” What would be your paragraph? This only works if you’re fully honest, You’re allowed to give praise if you see it. You take it from here, if you want to.

          • #1Fan

            Good one. Unfortunately I think i alrady wrote it 🙂

            promising B2B Cm, perhaps LB/RB. needs to work on her game to realize potential . I see her as a potential NWSL player but I dont project her as a NT starter .

          • Breakers fan

            Thanks. But I think real scouts get a little more detailed in their descriptions, don’t they? 🙂 Can you flesh it out a bit? What are her specific strengths, right now? Specific weaknesses at this time?

          • #1Fan

            I think the USSF scouts are going to give you a bunch of numbers like Beep test and scores in technical testing . I dont have those. I will tell you that my report above should tell you something. to me , she does not stand out in any way. I cannot name one ++ quality that I can say …she has this. by the same token I cannot give you a – – and say ..she really needs to get better at this.

            She is 5’4′ so not tall. Not particularly fast. Solid at most things. i think she has one goal and maybe 5 assists in 20 or so YNT games

          • Breakers fan

            Ok, thank you. So you must be absolutely flabbergasted at this development, provided your evaluation corresponds to reality. Is that fair to say? Not saying you’re wrong, just that your evaluation and what is happening with her are very much at odds with each other.

          • #1Fan

            Go watch the games on you tube. Interested in your opinion. I’m not at all surprised. I don’t think they are good at evaluating talent and they seem headline driven

          • Breakers fan

            Good point. Form my own opinion.

            just checked – sadly, only 2 minute highlight videos of the games of the U17 WC just played are on youtube now. Do you know of a place where one can watch the entire games? I may have to see if some other games in which she played are available…..some other tournament…maybe the one they have had out in California the last 2 years, around this time of year? That’s when I first saw her – 2 years ago. It’s a 4 team round robin tourney with I think Mexico, Japan and Canada. Maybe those are archived, will check.

          • Breakers fan

            Ok, I see that all the NTC U17 Invitational games, full-game videos of them, from the last 2 years are on youtube. That’s about 6 games I can see Pinto in. (I assume she played in 2016. I know she did in 2015) I saw all 3 in 2015 at the time, on-line, but I wasn’t focused on her. That’s where I first saw Sanchez and was really impressed with her. I’ll get back to you on this.

          • #1Fan

            Nice!! Iook forward to reading your opinion.

          • Breakers fan

            AND I see that the next U17 NTC Invitational starts in 2 days out in Carson,California. Other teams there will be Japan, England and Korea – assume South, but not sure. Games WILL be shown on ussoccer.com, which is great.

          • DNG

            I made this point below but is a player like Pugh more incentivized to become the best player she can be if she has already become a regular on the roster and consistent starter? What constitutes impressing them? It seems to be the case to me that some are chosen and given all the advantages while others have to claw for table scraps to even get an opportunity. What does that do to the motivation of the NWSL players who are not “favored”?

          • rkmid71

            Yael Averbuch says, “I can’t foresee a time when I won’t feel like I want to do everything it takes to give myself a chance to be there.” She’s 30 years old and still playing. 26 caps for WNT, now with FCKC The opportunity cost is too high for many/most. More would sacrifice longer if USWNT selection and politics was not so random, non merit based. You’ve even had legal barriers (CBA) restricting competition.

            We’ll find out about Pugh relatively soon (latest 2019 in France). It’s moving beyond the up and coming youngster. At some point it’s not about potential. Either she delivers (hasn’t carried any YNT or club team to a title yet) or nothing special. Nothing special yet. It’s about intangibles. “Being the best player she can be” requires enormous sacrifice. Tom Brady is the best QB of all time — that’s defined by 5 Super Bowl titles, 4 Super Bowl MVPs, 7 Super Bowl appearances. 12 Pro Bowls, 14 division titles in 15 years as starter. It’s very difficult to win consistency in today’s NFL with free agency, etc. It doesn’t matter who’s on his team. Btw — he was back up in college and 6th round draft pick. Nobody thought he’d amount to anything in the pros– too slow, not athletic enough.

          • Breakers fan

            This is a big question with these young players. Either you sort of earmark who you think the best young players in your country are and try to”play them up” by pitting them against the best, intentionally and knowingly perhaps “ahead of schedule” or you don’t. You have to choose a path between the 2 options. This came up, in a sense, with Fleming and whether UCLA is good enough or whether she “should” go to Europe or Japan or somewhere other than the American college scene. This has been discussed with Pugh and the NWSL. But those are different too in that they involve a big life decision – college, 4 years with your peers, or skip that. But the idea in purely soccer terms is similar.

            What would motivate Pugh more? Who knows what makes her tick? Why couldn’t she be just as motivated by practicing with the Senior team, with that experience motivating her to try to keep up with them, surpass them, as she plays with them day in and day out for stretches at a time? Is it in her nature to get cocky, complacent, rest on her laurels, to think she’s “all that” by pointing to her jersey when her peers ask her how she’s doing? I don’t see her that way. At the same time, and I’ve argued this before, argued it in the Fleming situation, I would also be totally fine if they let her stay playing with her peers for a few more years and didn’t give her any NT call-ups. Would you advocate doing that with her? I think she’ll develop either way. I’m glad she’ll be able to still go to UCLA and play there, glad that’s not forfeited by NT play. I see what you and #1Fan are saying – that others have paid their dues, reward them for that. A lot of me feels the same. But…..part of me is ok with Pugh getting these call-ups, due to what she’s shown to date, what her potential is and how best to develop a player – having them train with the best in your country. I’d be fine with either route. Pinto…..I’d prefer they wait a few years. Sanchez the same, though I see her as being as good if not better than Pugh, personally.

            If you’re the head coach of a national team would you *ever* bring in a 16 or 17 year old to your national team? Make one a starter if her play suggested it? Keep giving her call-ups? Or, would you, for all the factors that have been brought up here, never do that, always wait until someone is at least… 18? 19? 20? 21?

          • HOFCToDi

            In a nutshell, maybe Mallory Pugh actually cares about a college education.

          • Breakers fan

            I remember seeing a video of her doing calculus in a hotel room during NT training camp – further than I ever got in math. She’s got a good head on her shoulders.

          • John Maynard Keynes

            “In the long run we are all dead.”

          • HOFCToDi

            The USWNT has plenty of options in central midfield for the 2019 FIFA Women’s World Cup:

            Killion, Mewis, Brian, Horan, Lavelle, Sullivan

  • wosofan

    WHERE THE HELL IS OHAI?????

    • guest

      All is great because we have a bright future with the kids who failed at their own age!

      • kernel_thai

        And under this regime, failure is rewarded with promotion.

        • wolf

          That’s the new American way.

          • Halliburton

            indeed

        • Silver Frost

          Or take a year off to have a baby and come back and start.

          • Steglitz49

            Good PR for WoSo. Don’t knock it.

    • guest

      Below Tobin Heath, Crystal Dunn, Mallory Pugh as wide midfielders.
      Below Alex Morgan, Carli Lloyd, Christen Press, Lynn Williams, Amy Rodriguez as forwards

      • Som Termanni

        Below an 11th-grader as bench relief!

        • kernel_thai

          But Pinto is the proof that development is working : )

          • Som Termanni
          • CED

            No she isn’t. She was horrible in the U tournies this fall. The U system MF is even more woeful than WNT, in the inability to control the ball, pass, and coordinate an attack with any creativity.

          • kernel_thai

            It was sarcasm

          • Breakers fan

            I respect your opinions and that you have high standards. I can’t help but wonder, nevertheless, if you think any players on the USWNT are any good? If so, can you please name who you do like as players?

          • Steg Watch

            CED is extremely negative. Nobody is good enough. I may have to do a CED Watch as well.

          • rkmid71

            I’m pretty sure CED likes Pugh and some others. Though he/she rightfully thinks our midfield at both USWNT and YNTs has sucked for a long time. From my perspective, the notable exception being the semis and finals of the WC with Heath, Brian, Holiday, Rapinoe. Holiday retired. Rapinoe injured and not fit. And even Brian not fully fit for most of last year. Only Heath of that group stayed the course. Getting the midfield right is a huge priority in my book. Losing Sullivan hurt. Long is not the answer I like Brian and Heath and Sullivan (in the short window we saw her) — assuming all fully fit. Brian’s got to step up her game again. I want to see what Lavelle, Killion can do. I don’t want to see Lloyd anywhere near the midfield. I don’t know why they call her a midfielder.

          • DNG

            It’s odd to me but I think CED overrates Pugh while being a very harsh critic on many others.

          • kernel_thai

            The key there is seeing what players like Killion and Lavelle can do against three quality teams. Instead Im going to learn what A-Rod and Klingenberg can do. Also not sure the place u want to test Pugh’s knee is against Germany and England.

            Now if u buy into the Ellis theory that the US offense is now solely based on relentless pressure creating endless chances in the attacking third then it really doesn’t matter if u start Killion, Lavelle or my mother in the midfield. Maybe Ellis doesn’t buy in either.

          • rkmid71

            So JE is trying to replicate the old Nolan Richardson “40 minutes of hell”. Sweden notwithstanding, the goal being simply to shoot more than the other team with odds being that you’ll score more goals if you shoot more. I hope she has the right players for that strategy and pray you’re wrong about seeing more of ARod and Kling instead of Lavelle and Killion. Maybe ARod is good for that strategy. Kling not so much. Come to think of some others might not be so good: Long, Johnston, Horan, Lloyd, Mewis, Brian, Heath, Pinto?, etc. We need to get O’Reilly back. She’s the real beep test champ.

          • kernel_thai

            Well the extreme take on this is Ellis called up Campbell because she heard she’s taken PKs for Stanford : )

          • mockmook

            “Maybe ARod is good for that strategy.”

            She was good against China at the WWC.

            But, its asking a lot to expect that in her first games back — as a sub seems legit (for now).

          • HOFCToDi

            CED has been infected by Steglitz49.

          • HOFCToDi

            CED stands for ……….

            Certified
            Extraordinary
            Dumbass

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        • Movement

          Pinto may not even be wearing her big-girl panties yet.
          Ohai should be ahead of her, as should Ashley Sanchez.
          C’mon, what’s it gonna take to have a Sanchez on this roster?

        • guest

          Tom Sermanni > Jill Ellis.
          He had one BAD game.
          Jill had one good game when it mattered (Germany in 2015)

          • HOFCToDi

            Tom Sermanni was an idiot. 2014 was the worst performance ever for the USWNT at the Algarve Cup.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algarve_Cup#Participating_nations

          • Som Termanni

            Ellis’s smartest move was inventing her own home-pitch cup to avoid going into another Algarve.

      • kernel_thai

        Sure but do the Math…Ellis seems to be playing with 3 forwards and two wide mids. Of the forwards u put ahead of her only Press plays wide mid and she is wasted there. That leaves u only Pugh, Dunn and Heath covering two spots for three matches.

        • guest

          I know this but Ellis doesn’t seem care. If Tobin gets hurt were stuck with two forwards playing out wide. Ellis just doesn’t like Ohai. She never has. respond was just pointing out where Jill thinks she stands in terms of others.

          • Scott

            Tobin is basically going play 90 in any game that matters. Dunn or Pugh will play other wide spot. I actually prefer Dunn. Ellis likes Pugh.

      • Movement

        She scored her goal one second faster than Williams.
        Lynn Williams is a poor woman’s Alex Morgan. Ohai is the more “unique” type of player that adds an additional element to the team.

        But I think both Williams and Ohai should be called in.
        Ohai should be above A-Rod right now. She is a better goal scorer and finisher, and is better at getting down the flanks and sending crosses, plus she hustles even more than A-Rod at getting back and pressure, etc.

    • Movement

      Time to root for these European powers to SMOKE the USWNT at the Sheba-Leaves Cup, so Jill Ellis is eventually gone, and a new coach will come in and rightfully adore the awesome game (and overall spark) of Ohai.

      • HOFCToDi

        Get a clue, dumbass.

        Sunil Gulati only cares about FIFA World Cup Qualifications.

    • mockmook

      Houston?

  • Guest1

    Just wait until Casey Short benched for Meghan Klingenberg. You know it’s going happen.

    • John

      Well it’s a trade off Meghan is better offensively/technical player but worse defensively. Casey couldn’t even pass well against Romania or Switzerland.

    • CED

      Short is mediocre to poor in all honesty.

      • Steglitz49

        A graduette of Avaldsnes and a member of the 1st XI of the Toppserien. What more could you ask?

  • wosofan

    Happy about Lynn Williams call up though.

    • Som Termanni

      She’d better start producing, though. http://i.imgur.com/pkrxw88.png

      • VaFan51

        For me, Williams is all but a lock for this squad for a long time to come. Goal-scoring is only part of a F’s job — or else A-Rod would not have been on this team for years.
        Because of the dearth of woso matches over the past few months, I have been wearing out my DVR, watching some NWSL and WNT matches and, as a result, it is increasingly apparent that Williams does pretty much everything well — passing (especially), moving without the ball, getting to the end-line and making great centering passes, playing pressing defense, and creating chances. I really do want to emphasize her skill at passing the ball, both in attacking runs and laying off with her back to goal.
        Finishing is often the last part of the F package to be, well, finished — ask Lloyd, Morgan, A-Rod, etc. IMHO, Williams ought to hire Press as a tutor on the focused work-ethic that results in improved goal-scoring and that would take care of that.

        • #1Fan

          Great goalscorers are born with that instinct. I dont think you can coach it.

          • VaFan51

            Some truth to that, but it’s also true that focused hard work can do wonders. Press is Exhibit A. And let’s not forget that Williams is 23 year old and was the top scorer in the NWSL last season. Nice start.

          • #1Fan

            ill take the other side of that. Dunn was the Top scorer as well. There is no way i would call her a great finisher. NWSL is full of volume shooters , some score more than others, but i think technical finishing is not good. and thats instinctive – when to blast, when to chip, when to place,etc.
            Daly is as good finisher in terms of that as I saw last year.

          • HOFCToDi

            A comparison of international tournament performances:

            Christen Press
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            Knockout Stage
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Christen Press outdone by Crystal Dunn.

            Crystal Dunn
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals – 1, Assists – 1

            Crystal Dunn
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals – 1, Assists – 0

            Crystal Dunn
            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            Knockout Stage
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

          • guest

            I agree completely with you position on finishing. I got flamed for saying Dunn is a better wingback than forward in part for the reason you stated above regarding her finishing ability.

          • Breakers fan

            I’ll call Dunn a good finisher. Better than many others. Look at her goals on tape. The sheer # of goals she’s scored for the NT and in the NWSL 2 years ago when she was played in a position TO score, tell you that she can finish. But agree that she still needs to work on it. She has hit some amazing shots too – the NWSL final goal from that improbable angle. The game-winner from distance against England in the top right corner square, a bunch of very good left-footed goals – she’s pretty good.

          • DNG

            She’s a volume shooter able to get in good positions often but not really a player who finishs a high percentage of her chances regularly though she is streaky like most other forwards.

          • Breakers fan

            Fair. How many female soccer players first “are as able to get in good positions” to shoot as she is? Very, very few, if any, to the same extent. Also, how many women finish a high % of their shots, of ones who take a good number, ones who are relied on, counted on by their teams to take shots and score? Press is the only one I can think of who is better than her here and is within all those same categories.

          • Breakers fan

            I will add that in only 1 year of her life has Dunn been “a volume shooter”. All her other years aren’t even remotely in that ballpark.

          • DNG

            That was also the year she scored 15 goal no?. How many goals has she scored in other years. Volume shooter don’t mean she takes a lot of shots all the time. It means she is usually a less efficient scorer than her peers. Morgan is a volume shooter too. Excluding last year in the NSWL Press was very efficient by comparison to both. That doesn’t necessarily mean Press is definitely the best forward(I think she is) since that’s only one job of a forward. Getting into position often is obviously another.

          • Breakers fan

            Yes, same year. In most other years she was playing defender or asked to be a distributor – at UNC when they won the national title. Last year she scored a lot for the NT but not a lot for Washington but it seemed she was given a different role, that seemed clear to many observers, and it’s possible it contributed to her wanting to go overseas. But let’s also recall that in the big game , the NWSL final,. she rose to the top, as great players do in big games.
            As you may have seen in my post I too named Press as better than her in terms of accuracy. Keep in mind that Dunn hasn’t really been a true forward/striker until very recently, in comparison to Press who has played there her whole life, as far as I know – not a knock on Press at all – I’ve praised her scoring abilities for many a year, just a comparison. Dunn is now just learning the position in depth.

          • DNG

            I can’t get onto the NWSL website to check but just from the Thorns I believe both Allie Long and Lindsey Horan scored more goals more efficiently from MF/AMF roles. Mcdonald, Morgan, Dunn, and Williams are all volume shooters. I’ll have to get back to you on the other players like Groom and Ohai among others. Mcdonald in particular got on the end of a lot of good chances last year.

          • Breakers fan

            Thanks for the research. I probably won’t alter my view of Dunn and Dunn vs. others regardless of what numbers come back but I’ll look at them for last year if you want to provide them.

          • DNG

            In the regular season Long scored 6 goals on 19 shots last year. Horan 5 on 32. Dunn scored 2 goals total and I’ll have to wait to check but I think it was on over 30 shots. WoSo stats only has the first 11 games for her where she was 0 for 19. Dunn did have a great final though.

          • Breakers fan

            And a great semifinal and led the league the year before and scored a lot for the NT. Kudos to the others for what they did too.

          • DNG

            I would say that Allie Long’s sample size is bigger than Dunn’s. Dunn has one year of good production at the professional level. Let’s see where she goes from here and how she does at Chelsea and NWSL in the future.

          • Breakers fan

            Do her goals for the national team count for anything? Or don’t they fit into a desired category? With Dunn’s goals vs. Long’s let’s look at who was more responsible for creating the chances in the first place, or is that meaningless?

          • DNG

            I tend to count NT goals on a case by case basis. The high variance in the competition they play makes it difficult to identify quality. Take for example Carli Lloyd. She scored 17 times for the NT last year and I don’t think you believe she was one of the top two forwards on the team(maybe my assumption is wrong). The only goal from Dunn that I thought was excellent last year was the one against England. The rest of the teams were more or less overmatched.

            I don’t think chance creation is meaningless so you make a good point there. I thought Dunn did pretty good there last year even if she was a little inconsistent. I would expect Dunn to create more than Long though considering Long played as a 6 most of last year. Another caveat about long last year was that she scored a bunch of her goals on set pieces. But I would still point to previous season as evidence of her being a good finisher in the NWSL. We’ll have to wait some more to see on Horan but I think she can improve a lot on last year too.

          • Breakers fan

            Thanks for that. If we go down the road of ‘which goals count?” it’s a pretty slippery slope,. becomes subjective immediately. You have to do it for every player throughout history and each person doing it has his own criteria and results. Though I get the point this “imbalance” has always been and will always be. You’d have to even start looking at whether club teams are “good enough” to say this or that goal/assist counts. This approach can be a way more of shaping a narrative that serves the interests and preferences of the narrative maker, above all. A way of making who he wants to look best look best. You talked about wanting to rule out subjectivity in assist determination. That should happen here too. Even if against a weak opponent it doesn’t mean the soccer actions that the goal scorer executed were easier than those demonstrated by a goal scorer against a much better team – that goal may have been a tap in or a PK or just a goal where the skill level was clearly lower. So in that regard it’s more about what the player did than who it was against, though the latter is a factor too, admittedly. Glad you brought up the set pieces aspect from Long – that was honest. Though those aren’t all necessarily gimmees either.

          • DNG

            I’d say that all of our analyses are subjective but I think they are still needed when judging good play in soccer. There is just too much of the game that can’t be quantified in statistics defensive play for example is very difficult to judge through statistics. A defender playing for a team who doesn’t possess the ball very well is going to have more chances to make tackles than one who plays for a team who does. I can come up with more examples of statistics needing context but I think this illustrates my point that at least right now, subjectivity is a necessary “evil”. This is one of the reason why I like it when intelligent and dedicated posters like yourself disagree with me. It’s something of a check on my views even if I am a bit stubborn sometimes.

          • Breakers fan

            Good point about subjectivity being unavoidable in soccer analysis and message board posts. But when you start talking about goals and assists I think you have to go by the rules first. The numbers count. If you want to break each one down, fine, but I feel the subjective criteria should be, as I said, what soccer skills were shown before who was the opponent. That involves subjectivity but it doesn’t allow the analyzer to automatically dismiss certain goals and automatically praise others based just on the name on the jersey. Dunn’s done what she’s done. Each person is free to form his own opinion, evaluation of it. Mine is probably higher than most people’s.

            here is a great example of a defender who I think could be studied: Kassey Kallman. People often say the Breakers defense was awful but that’s a pretty broad, general statement. Kallman has impressed me a lot for 2 years but I worry that her NT chances have been unduly influenced by 2 numbers – goals against the Breakers, and the Breakers win-loss record. I think if one made a video of every play she was involved in and compared it to the same video for every other centerback in the league one would then be able to compare them at least much better than just looking at those 2 numbers., To me a truly competent National Team would have someone doing that kind of in-depth analysis when deciding who to call up. Get past the glaring numbers to the actual play.

          • DNG

            It’s not about the goal and assists to me on the NT. Just about every forward who plays up top scores for the NT. The question of judging which skill used on a particular goal would work against any competition is just too difficult of a question for me to answer. So I judge the goals against stiffer competition with greater weight than I do to the others. I’d take the one Dunn goal against England over her 5 goal performance against Puerto Rico any day. It’s an imperfect analysis, sure, but it’s applied to all players my favorites included.

            The Breakers defense was all time awful. They conceeded over 2 gpg over the course of the season. That does not mean that all of their defenders are terrible players. Instruction, tactics, and Organization are vital to a teams success and I think Beard got too much of that wrong in his first year in the league.

            And I 100% agree that a competent technical director for the NT, or any team really, would look at more than just the raw data and I’m sure many do.

          • Breakers fan

            I think it could be done. You aren’t giving yourself enough credit. Goals against good teams I bet are often largely due to build-up play as much as or probably often more so than they are due to some great individual action by the goal scorer. To do what I suggest would just amount to sitting down and looking at each goal. You can’t get overwhelmed and think it’s too hard. Not telling you to do it and I don’t think I will but if we’re evaluating forwards or goals-scored I think you need to count the numbers but get beyond them too. Whether everything Dunn did to get all 5 goals – combine all of that – and compare it to her England goal – I don’t know what I feel would represent a greater amount of soccer skill all together.
            In men’s leagues, what’s normally the worst gpg against number during a season for the worst defending team? Though over 2 is bad you can get a lot worse I would have to think. If 2 point whatever it was is all-time awful I would be shocked, for a pro league, men’s or women’s. Not sure I want to look it up but I bet there have been a good number of worse seasons. I maintain my feeling about Kallman perhaps deserving a look, as a player far from terrible. She got nothing but praise at Florida State and KC and she didn’t just regress since then. Something was wrong with the Breakers in giving up goals – again, one would have to look at each one and try and determine the causes – I feel you’re right when you talk about tactics and organization. Beard didn’t do a good job there, I think.

          • DNG

            Build up play is precisely what is so much easier for the USWNT when they play overmatched teams. The problem is that poor team concede too many big chances way too easily coupled with goals that happen due to poor keeping. To be fair mistakes by defenders and keepers lead to goals against good defensive teams as well but there is usually a significant difference in the volume of chances. Too often in these matches the USWNT plays against poor teams we just don’t see any credible resistance to the USWNT’s attacks. Dunn’s goal against England was a decent bit of play but only resulted in a goal because of a world class strike because defenders were in place to cut off her route to the goal and close the passing lanes. Some of the teams the US plays are not organized well enough to do either. So it becomes difficult to judge whether or not a more competent defender/defense would have stopped a similar attack before it even becomes a good chance.

          • Breakers fan

            The only point I’m trying to make here is when you’re engaged in the business of rating and evaluating forwards to look at specific plays, soccer actions, the best you can, subjectively. Don’t put one forward’s play, no matter who it is, as necessarily higher than another’s based solely on the name on the jersey of the opponent. That’s how I would do it, anyway. You may prefer another method, the one you’ve said you use. Just 2 different methods of evaluation.

          • DNG

            The name on the jersey is unimportant(sort of). How well a team plays against the US is the important part. And you’re right that it’s only one piece of the puzzle.

          • Breakers fan

            My whole thing is that zeroing in on what a player does, seeing it, tells you the most about him/her. Not looking at a stat sheet and seeing a number. Yes,count all goals – give credit for them all – and then you learn more, a lot more, by watching what the forward did and of course not only on the goals but in the whole game. An obvious proposition but for hardcore stat-heads who feel you don’t really need to see games but can just look at a piece of paper with numbers on them afterwards — (I don’t think you’re one) – one hard to accept. I’m more into the qualitative than the quantitative but acknowledge that yes a forward needs to score.

          • DNG

            This is where I got the stats. I only used Long and Horan’s because the Thorns are the only team with all of their games recorded

            https://amj2012.shinyapps.io/wosostats/

          • DNG

            According to Tonysocref here are the statistics from last season not including the playoffs. Everyone was much more efficient than Dunn. Ohai was probably the only player that played a similar position though.

            “Here’s what the NWSL site has for the players you listed.
            Player Goals/Shots/Shots on Goal
            Long 6/29/14
            Horan 5/29/17
            McDonald 10/39/17
            Dunn 2/37/14
            Williams 11/70/34
            Groom 8/48/25
            Ohai 11/51/31”

          • Breakers fan

            What is the position Dunn played last year? Seemed like a midfielder more than a forward, thus more likely tougher (further from goal) shots, correct? Everyone else there save Long and Horan are forwards. These do nothing to alter my view of her, due to her rampant scoring for the NT, and the year before when she played forward, but thanks to Tony soccerref for the research and you for relaying. She is learning the forward position.

          • DNG

            I would consider Dunn more of a wide forward than a flank midfielder. I don’t think she adds nearly as much to build up as say Heath for example. The distinction isn’t that important though, what matters is how important her role is to her team and how she plays. I thought her play over last year was pretty good and very good in the playoffs but I couldn’t call her anything close to a great goal scorer in the NWSL last year. She was just barely better than Heath with her efficiency and Heath is a notoriously poor finisher.

          • Breakers fan

            Yeah, definitely an off-year in the NWSL in the scoring dept. last year for her as I’m sure she would agree with but that said she clearly had a significantly different role from the year before. She’s a very young player who has had a pretty remarkable, rapid rise in the US women’s soccer landscape. A work and a player in progress, just one on our team who will need 10 more to have it be a great team.

          • DNG

            It was very different and it led to her getting less opportunities in transition which is where she scored the majority of her goals 2 years ago. I still think she missed a lot of chances she would have buried the year prior though. Maybe somewhat ironically I think Ohai scored a majority of her goals last year in transition similar to Dunn’s 15 goal season. I think that style works better in the NWSL style of very up and down, direct matches.

          • Breakers fan

            As you know from playing soccer shots on goal are a very fickle thing. Such minute variations can and do lead to such different outcomes. I think to truly judge a player you would need a pretty darn big sample size compiled over many years and even then you would have to look at how each goal was scored – how singularly responsible the goal-scorer was, as opposed to say just receiving a great pass for a simple tap-in. What were Ohai’s shooting stats the 2 years before as long as we’re looking at players in their entirety?

          • DNG

            Not sure and can’t check on Ohai. Generally speaking I agree with you on needing a larger sample size. So far the only evidence for Dunn though has last year as the outlier. We’ll have to see how the next couple of years go for her.

          • Breakers fan

            Here are Ohai’s 2014 and 2015 stats. Sorry, I should have done this before posting:

            2014: 46/22/4
            2015: 39/21/4

            Yes, we shall see. Position should be kept in mind too, as we know. Uncertain where Dunn will be played for club or country.

          • DNG

            I don’t expect Ohai to keep up her pace from last year this year btw. I think I read that Dunn played CF against Rosengard this weekend in a friendly.

          • Breakers fan

            Interesting – do we know how many minutes she played and if she scored? I can look it up.

          • Breakers fan

            I just read a small report about the match. Looks like she played the whole game. She didn’t score, but they said her best chance was a good play by her to create a nice chance but she then missed the shot wide. Oh well, we move on.

          • tonysocref

            Here’s what the NWSL site has for the players you listed.
            Player Goals/Shots/Shots on Goal
            Long 6/29/14
            Horan 5/29/17
            McDonald 10/39/17
            Dunn 2/37/14
            Williams 11/70/34
            Groom 8/48/25
            Ohai 11/51/31

          • DNG

            Thank you

          • #1Fan

            I agree with you re Dunn , but here is the WoSO dilemma. The game is not at the level where you get really punished for missing chances becasue you only get 3. Im not sure we are even close to that point.
            A player who get 7 chances to score an buries 2, is probabaly more effective in more situations that a player who will score 1 but only get 2 chances.

            in basketball terms , a player who can get their own shot is preferable to a knockdown spot up shooter who has to come off 3 screens.

            So in WoSo, a Morgan who punishes teams over the top is a mega star and yet she is not the most clinical finisher. Dunn is the same. heck lloyd is similar ( without the speed)

            Its a reflection of the state of the woimens game. Most teams score goals that rely on speed and/or long shots ( reflection on the standard of GKs especially in the air) ewer teams pass it around you for tap ins

          • HOFCToDi

            Exhibit A

            Calendar Year 2016
            FIFA Top 10 Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored
            Christen Press – 0

            Calendar Year 2014
            FIFA Top 10 Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored
            Christen Press – 0

            History does repeat itself.

        • guest

          Press has been obsessively shooting hundreds of shots per day since she was 6 years old. It’s just ingrained muscle memory for her at this point. I think that window has passed for Williams.

          • VaFan51

            Disagree about the conclusion. It is my understanding that Press has upped her finishing practice over the past year or so, and we have seen a significant improvement in her scoring game as a result. Again, Williams led the league in goal-scoring last year, with or without muscle-memory. so it’s not like she is starting from scratch.
            With the spectacular exception of Alex Morgan, nobody comes into the WNT and is an immediate and consistent goal-scorer. Once upon a time, Lloyd couldn’t hit a barn with her shot. Let’s not pronounce that Williams has reached her ceiling at the age of 23 after four (4) int’l. caps.
            Obviously, the proof will be in the future. Will LW have a sophomore slump? Will she dedicate herself to the sort of preparation that characterizes the players who get to become USWNT regulars? With the WNT, she’s running with a pretty fast crowd who should be excellent role-models. Personally, I have a lot of confidence in her.

          • #1Fan

            You can work on the mechanics of striking the ball,and that will add something, but the ability to consistently choose the best option for a given situation is an innate skill that very few have.

          • #1Fan

            yes for striking, but not for picking the right shape, timing and placement.

          • mockmook

            LW’s cheeky PKs tell me she has some of that instinct.

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press still can’t hit the broad side of a barn.

            Christen Press
            International Women’s Friendly
            18 Sep 2016
            USA 3 NED 1
            Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 2, Shots on Goal 0

            foxsports.com/soccer/boxscore?id=32516

            Christen Press
            2016 Rio Olympics
            12 Aug 2016
            USA 1 SWE 1
            Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 2, Shots on Goal 0

            rio2016.com/en/football-womens-quarterfinal-fb-3

            Christen Press
            2016 Rio Olympics
            09 Aug 2016
            USA 2 COL 2
            Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 4, Shots on Goal 1

            rio2016.com/en/football-womens-first-round-group-g-fb-5

            Christen Press
            International Women’s Friendly
            9 Jul 2016
            USA 1 RSA 0
            Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 2, Shots on Goal 0

            foxsports.com/soccer/boxscore?id=26928

            Christen Press
            International Women’s Friendly
            5 Jun 2016
            USA 2 JPN 0
            Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots 2, Shots on Goal 1

            foxsports.com/soccer/boxscore?id=26862

            Christen Press
            International Women’s Friendly
            2 Jun 2016
            USA 3 JPN 3
            Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots 2, Shots on Goal 0

            foxsports.com/soccer/boxscore?id=26754

        • Som Termanni

          The only forward with at least 4 caps in 2016 and fewer goals per match was Mal Pugh (0.23), but Pugh had 7 assists (0.41). Williams has 0.

          Tobin Heath (0.27) and Sam Mewis (0.29) had more goals per cap from mid.

          • VaFan51

            My faith in statistics and number-crunching re: soccer and most other sports is paper-thin. Zero assists for Williams? What, then, is this?
            https://youtu.be/voItZ7F6i0o

          • Som Termanni

            Gee golly gosh I don’t know but you better tell Sunil and Jello because they have her down for a big fat old goose egg on her assists column. http://www.ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/stats/2016-statistics

          • Som Termanni

            And even if we’re charitable and give her an assist, that’s 1 out of 20-odd US offensive goals scored in 4 tomato can friendlies. Press had 4 in the same number of minutes. Dunn had 4 in 30 more minutes. The only forward who had that many minutes and no assists was Morgan, who played fewer than half as many minutes as Williams and still scored 2.

          • VaFan51

            Yeah, I saw that. Doesn’t seem like a tough call, does it? But this is just another reason why decimal points don’t really make a good measure of a player’s value or potential.

          • Som Termanni

            At some point potential has to turn into production. If Jello is bringing in high schoolers to breathe down players’ necks, 23 is the new 28.

          • HOFCToDi

            “At some point potential has to turn into production”.

            Calendar Year 2016
            FIFA Top 10 Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored
            Press – 0

            Calendar Year 2016
            FIFA Top 10 Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Assists Provided
            Press – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            Knockout Stage
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

          • HOFCToDi

            “At some point potential has to turn into production”.

            Calendar Year 2016
            FIFA Top 10 Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored, USWNT Assists Provided
            Christen Press – 0, 0
            Crystal Dunn – 1, 0

            Christen Press
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Crystal Dunn
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals – 1, Assists – 1

            Christen Press
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Crystal Dunn
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals – 1, Assists – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            Knockout Stage
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Crystal Dunn
            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            Knockout Stage
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

          • HOFCToDi

            You should vet the individual match reports instead:

            ussoccer.com/matches/wnt/2016/161023-wnt-v-sui#tab-1

          • stats incomplete

            USA v Switzerland match report does give assist to Williams

            USA – Crystal Dunn (Lynn Williams) 63

  • wosofan

    Can Lavelle finally play in this tournament so we can see how she actually stacks up to the other members of the team and other top level international teams?

    • CED

      The reason she hasn’t played is b/c she doesn’t stack up even in training but has been anointed by U system so she keeps getting called up. To be in this many maps and never get capped means something, especially considering the mediocre to be kindly, play of the MF for years.

      • guest

        Ellis noted in January that Lavelle in prior camps had always been dealing with injuries so Jan was first camp when she was not dealing with an injury. We will see whether she makes she roster earns a cap.

        • Arcie Tillydee

          Agreed. The question mark for Lavelle at the senior/pro level has always been her outright pace (iffy…not slow but no speedster, either) and her ability to make up for any lack of foot speed with soccer IQ and fast decision-making. She’s very good at the latter traits at the NCAA level and at junior international levels…but still has to prove she can deal with the next level’s greater demands. My money’s on “yes,” but there are no guarantees. I certainly hope she handles the transition, ‘coz she plays damn pretty football (and I think this is the right direction for the team: into more technical play).

        • CED

          So that excuse which is nonsensical is she is an injury prone player. A player made of glass that is suppose to be a CM,. no thanks. The fact is Lavelle was always overrated and has not shown well. Btw, if she is injured why bring her to camp? It’s not the purpose to come to NT camp to rehab , especially if you’re not a a allocated player. The excuse is utter BS!

          • guest

            your “fact”
            Lavelle was always overrated and has not shown well
            appears to be an opinion.
            – oh – maybe it’s an alternative fact

            I stand by my opinion
            We will see whether she makes she roster earns a cap

          • CED

            You’re clueless as expected. Lavelle never gets capped b/c she is mediocre at best and the WNT MF sucks and she still can’t get in.

          • Breakers fan

            If at age 22 you’ve scouted Lavelle that thoroughly and accurately, with however much exposure to her game you have had, to know not only the current state of her game but her ceiling, then my hat goes off to you. Of course only the passage of years of time will reveal the answer to us.

          • Breakers fan

            Just want to add that “getting in” comes up against the mind of Jill Ellis, no matter how good or bad the current players who do get minutes are vis-a-vis a challenger to them . Dunn couldn’t “get in” to the roster of the ’15 World Cup. Does that mean she wasn’t good enough to? Again, the mind and pencil of Jill Ellis must be traversed. (to coin a phrase. Sounds like an album title, “Traverse the Pencil”)

        • kernel_thai

          The NWSL is a bit of a cart/horse league. It is quite possible Lavelle is on the allocation list to give Boston an allocated player The detail of whether she can earn that allocation is secondary.

    • HOFCToDi
      • guest

        Morgan and Williams who can’t hit the broad side of a barn… with no Lloyd, Press or Dunn who are the only ones who actually score goals. yeah we aren’t scoring any goals with this lineup. Press and Williams actually have some chemistry at least.

        • HOFCToDi

          Christen Press can’t the broad side of a barn.

          Christen Press
          2016 Summer Olympic Games
          Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 6, Shots on Goal 1
          Penalty Kicks Attempted 1, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

          Christen Press
          2016 Rio Olympics
          12 Aug 2016
          USA 1 SWE 1
          Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 2, Shots on Goal 0
          Penalty Kicks Attempted 1, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

          Christen Press
          2016 Rio Olympics
          09 Aug 2016
          USA 2 COL 2
          Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 4, Shots on Goal 1
          Penalty Kicks Attempted 0, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

          Christen Press is the quintessential international fraud.

          4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
          78 caps
          2 head coaches

          Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

          garbage time
          prima donna
          selfish shot hog
          tomato cans

        • HOFCToDi

          You are a moron.

          If it wasn’t for Sydney Leroux, Christen Press would be NOTHING! Spoon feeding at its best.

          ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/tournaments/2014-concacaf-womens-championship/141024-wntvmex#tab-1

          ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/tournaments/2015-fifa-womens-world-cup/150608-wntvaus#tab-1

          Christen Press
          FIFA Women’s World Cup
          Goals 1, Assists 0

          Christen Press
          CONCACAF Women’s World Cup Qualifying
          Knockout Stage
          Goals 1, Assists 0

          Christen Press
          Olympic Games
          Goals 0, Assists 0

          Christen Press
          CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
          Knockout Stage
          Goals 0, Assists 0

          Christen Press
          SheBelieves Cup
          Goals 0, Assists 0

        • HOFCToDi

          You are a moron.

          Calendar Year 2016
          FIFA Top 10 Ranked Opponents
          USWNT Goals Scored
          Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 6
          Horan (DOB 26 May 1994) – 2
          Dunn (DOB 03 Jul 1992) – 1
          Heath (DOB 29 May 1988) – 1
          Johnston (DOB 06 Apr 1992) – 1
          Lloyd (DOB 16 Jul 1982) – 1
          Mewis (DOB 09 Oct 1992) – 1

          By the way, Christen Press is not on the list.

          ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/lineups

          Christen Press is the quintessential international fraud.

          4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
          78 caps
          2 head coaches

          Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

          garbage time
          prima donna
          selfish shot hog
          tomato cans

        • HOFCToDi

          Sunday, 21 Feb 2016
          TSG announces CWOQ Best XI, Awards
          ussoccer.com/v~13.17/~/media/images/wnt/gallery-images/2016/02/160221-wnt-v-can/photo-gallery/160221-wnt-vs-can-photo-gallery19.jpg?h=600&w=786&la=en&hash=BF5ABEEA5BE7034EF13FA4F320F9E7BB8E549331&yocs=6_&yoloc=us

          concacaf.com/article/tsg-announces-cwoq-best-xi-awards

          By the way, Christen Press is not on the list.

          Christen Press is the quintessential international fraud.

          4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
          78 caps
          2 head coaches

          Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

          garbage time
          prima donna
          selfish shot hog
          tomato cans

        • HOFCToDi

          Friday, 11 Mar 2016
          Morgan, Solo and the USA Sweep Awards at 2016 SBC
          ussoccer.com/v~13.17/~/media/images/wnt/gallery-images/2016/03/160309-wnt-v-ger/160309-wnt-vs-ger-gallery20.jpg?h=559&w=800&la=en&hash=B1A7B6E0C01C796F4C31CF422F0CC370A4D5CF89&yocs=6_&yoloc=us

          ussoccer.com/stories/2016/03/11/13/17/160311-wnt-morgan-solo-and-the-usa-sweep-awards-at-2016-shebelieves-cup

          By the way, Christen Press is not on the list.

          Christen Press is the quintessential international fraud.

          4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
          78 caps
          2 head coaches

          Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

          garbage time
          prima donna
          selfish shot hog
          tomato cans

        • HOFCToDi

          USWNT Career
          FIFA Top 10 Ranked Opponents
          USWNT Goals Scored
          Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 34
          Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
          Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3

          Christen Press is the quintessential international FRAUD.

          4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
          78 caps
          2 head coaches

          Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

          garbage time
          prima donna
          selfish shot hog
          tomato cans

        • HOFCToDi

          Calendar Year 2016
          FIFA Top 12 Ranked Opponents
          USWNT Goals Scored
          Press – 0

          Calendar Year 2016
          FIFA Top 12 Ranked Opponents
          USWNT Assists Provided
          Press – 0

          Christen Press is the quintessential international fraud.

          4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
          78 caps
          2 head coaches

          Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

          garbage time
          prima donna
          selfish shot hog
          tomato cans

          • Steglitz49

            Tautology. Morons usually are clueless. A bit like the USWNT in Brasilia las year.

  • Ashley C

    Kling keeps getting slower and slower. It’s a concern.

  • Greg

    Kealia Ohai might as well quit NWSL. I guess it’s good thing she’s dating millionaire right? Amy Rodriguez got a spot over her.

    • guest

      Well considering they aren’t married yet I wouldn’t be counting on his money yet if I were her. He actually gave a very nice interview on her work ethic though and how inspiring it is. It’s a shame she didn’t get a call up.. I wonder if there are personality conflicts there with Ellis which is rumored to be part of S. Jordan’s issue

    • guest

      To be honest with you is Lynn Williams a lot better? Williams has contract and call ups now because she got MVP having one more assist.

      • Som Termanni

        Do we know Williams has a WNT contract? I doubt that considering the labor situation.

        • g2

          as you note, we do not know (yet) if Williams has/will have a USWNT contract for 2017

        • mockmook

          I seem to remember she got enough caps to earn a contract — but, I remember a lot of stuff that isn’t true 🙂

  • Tom

    WNT chooses who they want to succeed. Everyone else is screwed. Go play for nothing in the NWSL.

    • rkmid71

      I don’t think many would care that much how they choose if the USWNT was a dominant team consistently playing world class soccer. They are not. Notwithstanding the 2015 WC win (first in 16 yrs) and the fact they are still FIFA #1 ranked even after 2016 OG result. It certainly doesn’t look or feel that way. Other teams know it too. Greatness has not been found yet. But in my opinion, it is definitely possible given the huge US advantages in player pool and resources, no matter what other countries might be doing to get better. I do feel we are moving in the right direction, though it’s as slow as molasses like trying to turn around the Titanic.It’s about admitting shortfalls, failures, mistakes and constantly seeking improvement, new ideas, etc. — I don’t see that happening..

  • Tom

    Who’s spot will Sydney Leroux take?

    • Bruce

      Pinto is the logical choice.

      • #1Fan

        I dont think so . One is a CM , the other is a striker.

        • Bruce

          I say that because Pinto is a throwaway roster spot. Why not replace her with another player who may not see the pitch?

          Hell if I know what’s logical for JE, though.

          • #1Fan

            Throwaway from an allocated PoV ?

          • Bruce

            That’s half of it. In reality, I cannot see her there for anything but the PR value and “the experience”. Won’t get a cap. Doesn’t affect game day planning. Without a chance to compete for a job, she’s just occupying space.

          • #1Fan

            I disagree. I think there is a real chance she get a cap. the “experience” has been done already. this is real. Look at the other players who were asked to sty on form the U-23 camp..are they on the roster now?

          • Bruce

            God I hope you are wrong. I went back and watched some WC tape to see what I missed about Pinto. Still don’t see anything that would even get her on an NWSL roster. I just don’t get it.

          • guest

            Me too. I saw a couple of quick passes that any of the top 100 HCM in the US could make. The best in the first half of the japan game when she tracked back and tackled an unaware Japanese kid turned and made a good pass to I think Sanchez. But an expected level of play (and brief at that) not even remotely special. I saw zero special moments from her and a lot of bad ones. Seems an insane decision and must have made several hard working NWSL midfielders despondent.

          • #1Fan

            She is a good box to box CM who has a lot of developing to do. She could be really good, but she is short of that now.

            Another point I have hesitated to bring up is this …

            If she has not looked dominant on age in intl competition and yet she is lighting up the Full NT practices, what does that say about our team and the other CM players and prospects?

            Food for thought

          • Bruce

            Or maybe this is JE’s ways of saying that she has no faith in her youth system to nurture potential and she needs to bring every promising 16 year old into full NT camp or risk development failing off the rails.

            Troubling no matter how you look at it.

          • #1Fan

            so lets say you are right, is there only one ?

          • Bruce

            I can’t even begin to guess, but the space is limited due to the reality of the NT roster size, so maybe her plan is to give sacrifice a roster spot to save a promising young player from the system.

            Then again, maybe she has no plan. A pick like Pinto (rightfully) invites speculation.

          • Breakers fan

            I’m trying to understand here. If the Pinto promotion is a PR move, one felt to be necessary, or at the least very beneficial, what’s behind it and what are they afraid of (if they don’t make such moves from time to time)?

            I’ve read that this is a move to justify not changing the coaching staff at the YNT levels. As if the move says: “Look at how well they trained and coached this kid.. If they can get a 16 year old ready for Full team play, how bad can these coaches be?” I think that’s that position, correct me if I’m wrong.

            There could also be, I guess, concern about the YNT system as a whole. But…here’s where I’m confused. First, not that many Americans know the first thing about our youth national teams. So, they don’t care. Nor do they know who is brought into camp. The inside soccer world – which is fairly large – would know, probably, that our U17s and U20s didn’t have great WCs last Fall. They’re probably disappointed, most of them, but I bet most don’t dwell on it. They move on. The really hardcore fans are very concerned.

            My question is: IF this is primarily a PR move, that it’s mostly not about the talents of Pinto, or the potential they see in her, that she is 90% purely a pawn to serve other purposes, who is the audience they’re trying to win over? Whose minds will alter due to this move? Who that was saying “nay” before, will now say “yay”? Is it the parents of soccer-playing girls, who may now be tempted to, en masse, yank their kids from the sport after watching the U17 and U20 World Cups? Is it realistic to think that those results would have such an effect? I just don’t see the rationale behind the theory. Can you or anyone else explain it to me? Is there really some high-alert crisis in America with whether girls will continue to play soccer and be excited about it that bringing Pinto into camp addresses and helps to solve in a significant way? Also, how many people will marvel at Pinto to a point where it completely wipes out their memory of the U17 and U20 results? The argument doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

          • mockmook

            I thought the main point was that this is to save YNT coaches — so PR for them.

          • Breakers fan

            The logic being that people (are so stupid, and by “people” we mean…..who? soccer fans like us? to keep us from “revolting” on message boards?) will instantly forget and ignore the U17 and U20 results and now be all smiles when we see Pinto in camp? Is that the idea?

          • mockmook

            I think more for Gulati.

            Not saying I 100% believe this theory, but it does seem to be the best fit for the “facts”

            Otherwise, we have to conclude that JE is insane and Gulati doesn’t notice THAT 🙂

          • Breakers fan

            Hadn’t thought of Gulati. Perhaps, but the same logic would be in effect: That HE is so stupid that he will give this precedence over the World Cup results.

          • mockmook

            G has made some very questionable decisions (Ex: Sermanni), so his level of “soccer stupidity” is an open question.

          • #1Fan

            i think you are over analyzing it. there are several people in the soccer world looking at the WC performances and asking for changes at the very top. Heinrichs , Snow etc. PR move suggest that they are marketing to the world at large. i think this is to a much more select group. The mandarins inside the federation who help make decisions – hiring and firing. Many of these folks dont know enough about whats going on at youth level but showing them that kids fro those teams are progressing to the full team is evidence that in spite of results, we are doing a great job on the most important part of our mandate – developing full NT players.

            It is interesting to see the ECNL clamoring to take credit for Pinto development. A blatant PR move to say we dont need a GDA. its also interesting to note that in spite of all this so called success we do not have a technical director named yet for the GDA.

            Im not telling you this is the reason, but I would not be at all shocked if it was part of the thinking here. and it could be BJ Snow pushing for it to save his job.

          • Breakers fan

            I think that’s definitely plausible, perhaps even likely, at least to some extent. I hadn’t considered the angle of a sort of “inside, way inside, persuasion (snow, no pun intended) job”: Thank you for spelling it out clearly – first time I’ve seen someone flesh it out that well.

            ECNL vs GDA stuff is interesting.
            Lack of GDA technical director is disappointing but maybe they’re being really selective? Want to make sure they get someone worthy. I’m hoping for that being the reason. Hard to know, for me, where you look for someone for that job….

          • #1Fan

            They had a candidate and it fell apart. i dont think its a selective issue. I cannot believe anyone is dying to work for/with AH so reporting lines may be an issue

          • guest

            I agree with your first assessment that basically she was called up to make the point to the woso soccer community that the YNT staff are doing their jobs and no changes are needed. Our mission statement in the YNT programs is not to win trophies, but to ready a few super special players for the full team. BJ did that with three this cycle and 1 last. He’s a keeper…but until a camp announcement comes out, I will keep hoping that someone saw the light and fired him.
            Did you say something about an 01 NTC tournament in the next day or so? I know they were usually in february so I would expect one. However, I see no roster or coaching announcement for the 17s. What’s up?

          • #1Fan

            Not me. I think Breakers mentioned it. There are other YNT events upcoming Rosters out soon Im sure

          • Breakers fan

            Sorry about this – false alarm on the Tourney. I misread a google entry. Evidently no NTC this year, at least not in February. I was looking forward to it.

          • DNG

            Maybe but I think SBC roster is set at 23 which means that 2 players will probably be dropped for the actual matches.

        • mockmook

          I think Leroux may actually be better as a wing player (and she has played there for the USA).

          • #1Fan

            Agreed. I should have said forward.

  • Joke

    How are we suppose take this team serious with Amy Rodriguez still on this team?

    • wosofan

      It is required that she get called up.

      • rkmid71

        For 3 months correct? But it doesn’t mean she must be rostered. Did she have to be called into both the January camp and this camp per CBA?

        • another guest

          as you note, once a player returns from pregnancy leave then MOU/CBA provides for at least 3 months (at same tier – tier #1 in this case – as she was prior to pregnancy) at full salary – but technically does not require call-ups. However with USSF already paying ARod my assumption is USSF will give her ample opportunity to make/or not make USWNT roster.

          My assumption would be that ARod also retains her allocated (federation subsidized) player status for FCKC this season.

          • rkmid71

            Don’t forget they paid Rampone for a long time at full salary with no callups. We only recently found out she had retired from USWNT. I would bet she’s still getting paid until new CBA. I can see calling ARod up after SBC. But SBC is too valuable from an evaluation perspective to have her on the roster — even if there are PR benefits. Maybe the whole CBA dynamic is factor. I highly doubt she will be on the 2019 roster. I wouldn’t make an assumption about allocations just yet. And I had thought Rampone was getting sendoff at March 4 match in NJ. For some reasons, I thought she’d be on roster for that match.

          • kernel_thai

            I don’t think A-Rod has to be called up per the CBA. I think the guarantee is only that her contract be paid for at least three months at a tier 1 level (WC Roster). Now it’s a good argument that USSF wants the players they r already playing called in as opposed to leaving them home and replacing them with floaters.

          • Steglitz49

            Playing ARod is good PR. A young lady who has managed to have not just one but two kids while playing for the WNT and winning the WC — and luckily missing out on the Bomb in Brasilia, to boot!

            Likewise, Syd adds to that PR-strength. The day when Alex Morgan announces that she is expecting, the PR-mill will go into overdrive. (I don’t know they would handle HAO, though.)

          • Breakers fan

            I like this from your post: “SBC is too valuable from an evaluation perspective to have her on the roster”. I tend to agree with you there, though I do recall that fantastic FCKC season and know that ARod can be really good.
            Do you have any individuals in mind who you really wish were there in that forward spot? (or maybe another midfielder?)

          • Steglitz49

            ARod is good PR. WoSo must keep her in the limelight.

    • sudeep das

      Has to be a send-off gesture. Can’t see her fitting in technically.

    • Steglitz49

      Splendid PR.

  • Anson

    There is better talent than what JE invited. There are better professional soccer players than what JE has invited and there is better people than what JE invited. JE does not know what she is doing and as time goes on the incompetence will show up.

    • Steglitz49

      Name your own squad of 20+3 or at least a 1st XI + 3 replacements and 2nd goalie!

      Just type in a stream of consciousness. Blow punctuation.

    • guest

      Odd that JE is getting paid as USWNT coach – instead of posting on EQ

    • Breakers fan

      This is fine and dandy as a representation of your opinion, but I think you’ve gotta go further, complete it by naming who you feel she wrongly omitted. Can you please do that?

      • kernel_thai

        There is no way for us to know what she saw in Jan Camp but it is still possible to question some of the selections. Also, there may be some CBA constraints that r either contractual or her boss who signs the check has put on her. SO here r the layman questions.
        1. Where is the cover on the flanks? IN cutting Ohai she has left herself with Heath, Dunn, Pugh (coming off knee problems), Klingenberg (coming off back problems & not really fast enough. Beyond that there r Press and O’Hara who r both better in other positions
        2. Why so many CFs. Morgan, Rodriguez & Williams r center forwards. Press & Dunn would be two but r at least effective in wide forward positions. Lloyd thinks she is a CF. Rodriguez seems redundant here unless Ellis is planning to go to a 2front again.
        3. Like Ali Krueger but having a hard time seeing why u carry her if the 3back persists. At the worst u could be developing a young outside back here.
        4. Cant think of a single reason other than developmental horn tooting to have Pinto here.

        • Breakers fan

          I appreciate you digging in with specifics here. Your analysis makes sense to me, as does the part about possible CBA constraints being operational as well with some of the roster decisions. I do feel bad for Ohai, that she couldn’t have gotten some game minutes at this time. I do like O’Hara there but yes, they may see her getting most of her minutes at right outside back,I agree also about young outside backs vs. Krieger though I think she has another good year or two in her. As usual, Ellis moves more slowly with changes than I think we all would like.
          At the CF position, – not taking one away now, but questioning who was picked…. Savannah Jordan ..first, I’m not even sure if they were considering her due to her recent complete snubs at even lower levels, but I would have preferred her over A-Rod here, just due to their age difference. I would assume that Glasgow would have permitted such a thing if she had been invited.

  • tonysocref

    Just another roster to take with a grain of salt. Least we forget, Ellis is still handcuffed by the current CBA.
    18 of the players are currently under contract with the USSF.

    • Silver Frost

      Does that include A-Rod?

      • tonysocref

        Yes, she remained under contract at 1/2 pay during her maternity leave.

        • Steglitz49

          ARod has timed her life to perfection. Other WoSos must envy her.

  • Paul Klee

    So can we assume that the USWNT allocations and contracts will come from these 25 plus Rapinoe and LeRoux? These 27 minus Pugh and Pinot leaves 25, they have to have 24 under contract, that would leave only one of the following without a contract ( they could have 25) Williams, Short, Campbell, Lavelle and Killion. Unless I’m missing something like Rampone still being under contract?

    • tonysocref

      24 is the minimum under contract, with 18 of those at Tier 1 with no more than 4 at Tier 3 unless there are more then 24 under contract.
      In 2013 they started with 27 allocations (original 27).

    • kernel_thai

      It would be quite the move to allocate the Dash’s 3rd string keeper.

      • Paul Klee

        It would kind of force their hand. What I really want to know is: are there at least 24 contracted players as would be required by the CBA, was that requirement waived. Who are these players?

        • kernel_thai

          Harris, Naeher, ???? (Campbell, Franch)
          Johnston, Sauerbrunn, Sonnett
          Krieger, O’Hara, Klingenberg, Short
          Brian, Lloyd, Mewis, Long, Horan
          Rapinoe, Heath,
          Morgan, A-Rod, Leroux, Press, Williams

          So that’s 22…23 if u take both Franch & Campbell

          Other possibles r Ohai, Killian, Lavelle, Edmonds

          • CED

            The most likely scenario is everybody who was allocated in 2016 and not released like Engen and/or on OG roster(clause in CBA/MOU) is getting paid as allocated in the monthly salary disbursements. No new allocations were likely given until a deal is signed.

          • guest

            The allocation portion of USWNT salary is only paid during NWSL season and allocations for 2017 not yet announced and likely delayed till new CBA. The USWNT base (tier 1 etc) contract salary is paid over the full year so those monthly payments continue while new CBA is negotiated except for terminated Engen/Solo or retired HAO/Rampone

          • kernel_thai

            But u have to believe the announcement is all that has been delayed and that the teams know who will be allocated to allow them to plan their cap signings. Now I guess it is possible the league has also been told allocation might not happen without the CBA but Im fairly sure they have the names.

          • guest

            Agree that USSF (and Canada fed) talks with NWSL teams re allocated players and at a minimum the NWSL teams were informed in 2016 of players being dropped (e.g. WNY offer of contract to Hinkley was announced in Oct 2016) and logical that for roster planning the teams were informed re allocations.
            but given how little info has leaked out about potential CBA terms being offered by USSF, not clear how much info USSF may or may not be sharing with NWSL while negotiating cba.

          • kernel_thai

            So under that scenario do u allocate Rampone as a going away present? From last years group they lost Engen, Dunn, Solo, O’Reilly, Rampone (maybe) and Hinkle. Last year they allocated 23 plus added Sonnett after the draft.

          • guest

            Rampone is retired. For her to continue to be allocated and deny the opportunity to another player, for yet another year, would be a real travesty and make no sense at all.

    • Alternative Facts

      There is no contact. It expired.

      • Paul Klee

        Still, they are operating under the terms of the the last CBA/MOU

  • Silver Frost

    Allie is a midfielder again.

    • Don’t hate me

      they always list her as a midfielder but she tends to play defense… like Lloyd is listed as a midfielder but she moves to be a forward

  • sudeep das

    Andi Sullivan would have completed this roster. Really feel sorry for her. It’s not that often one gets to play against the best in the world.

    • Steglitz49

      Like Sweden?

      Why not throw Colombia into the mix while you are at it?

      • sudeep das

        That’ll be a mini World Cup then

        • Steglitz49

          Indeed. Judging by OG, the US, Canada, Colombia and Sweden, might have been just the ticket for PR.

    • CED

      No they can’t. The simple fact is even with all top 5 teams the attendance is pretty dismal for non US games and even the US games had mediocre attendance at 2 of the 3 games. The make the games double headers for a reason. An expanded tourney with non US double headers would have games with woeful attendance when US is not involved. The fact is the tourney is really at a poor time in the US. it comes right at the start of conference college bball tournaments. Also, first week of March means it’s cold in most of the country. They are taking a big chance with games not in warmth climates thus year. The attendance was just okay overall 51K over 3 games in 2016 with good weather. If it’s like 30 degrees in NJ for the games the attendance will likely be horrible.

      • guest

        Really don’t understand bringing the games to the Northeast this time of year… seems like a crazy gamble.

        • CED

          It makes little sense. Games in the southeast would be logical. Having one game in NC would have been great, a mini hype event for the the relocated WNY team.

          • guest

            I guess they figure attendance will be better in the NE than smaller southeastern cities or NC. CA would have been more logical also.

          • Rdalford

            SBC 2016 attendance
            3 March (in Tampa) 13,027
            6 March (in Nashville) 25,363
            9 March (in Boca) 13,501

          • Som Termanni

            March 3 was a Thursday. March 6 was a Sunday, in a 70k-capacity stadium. March 9 was a Wednesday.

        • kernel_thai

          Apparently the USSF brain trust didn’t get the notion that the location of the winter prep tournaments in La Manga, Cypress and Algarve was an attempt to train in warm weather.

          • Steglitz49

            Glory, laud and honor be to the Swedish WNT squad back 20+ years ago — and that British business man who lent a helping hand.

      • sudeep das

        Very good points about attendance (or lack of it) in non-US games and the cold climate.

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  • FawcettFan14

    I’d have chosen Ohai over Long. We have enough center mids: Brian, Horan, Killion, Mewis, Lavelle. Lloyd can’t really be included here as she is basically a forward in all but name at this point. But there aren’t any wingers except Heath (who likes to cut in) and Dunn (who is better floating around, not a pure winger). Perhaps Ellis intends to convert Kling into a winger based on her comment on Rapinoe. But still, it’s thin. And I really don’t get what Long brings that others can’t.

    And the Pinto thing is just bizarre. Why bypass the proven talent in NWSL who can’t buy a look in favor of a 16-year old?

    • Sara P

      The Pinto thing is marketing pure and simple. The only way for JE to keep her posse around is to point to how successful the development has been of our youth players. YNT results don’t matter, we are all about developing talent. Look at all the U17 and U20 girls that are ready to be a heartbeat away from the WNT? So, of course Snow, French, Heinrichs, et al, all deserve pats on the back, contract extensions, and promotions. NOTHING is going to change until the senior team fails to qualify for a WC, otherwise this incestuous, incompetent collection of coaches will continue to grab the big, athletic girls who can kill the beep test to be anointed as superstars and have no clue how to develop or coach technically and tactically superior players.

      • #1Fan

        very plausible explanation and one I think i wrote over a month aoo

        I dont think that the Pugh call up has anything to do with Pinto or any other young player. The more I think about it the more I think it has to do with providing evidence of a thriving Youth system given the events of last year. Taking it one step further, I would not be shocked if they used this as a reason to praise the outstanding work that the existing Youth team staff is doing and keep them all for another cycle. Its the only way to counter those that are criticizing the performances in Jordan and PNG.
        On Pugh, she has played a lot of soccer. Im not at all surprised that she may be taking time to recover.

        That was from a month back ..

      • guest

        Um they aren’t big
        Pugh and Pinto 5’4″ Sanchez 5’3″
        Pinto isnt even fast. So no physical qualities really at all. I don’t have to look past the intial 3 seconds of the japan USA u17 game to see that Pinto isn’t even really close. After a pass from center back to circle center, she plays a 20 yard square ball right that is picked off for a dangerous counter. Who plays square balls in the midfield beyond u13?

        • Sara P

          she boasts a 40 in the beep test, so call it physical ability versus technical or tactical ability.

        • Steglitz49

          Ze Lawd preserve us from midgets. Japan has no choice; ze YouESS Does!!!!!

      • rkmid71

        I’m not even sure not WNT not qualifying would do it. They didn’t qualify in 2011 out of Concacaf. It took a playoff with Italy that was very close. And now the 2015 WC win has bought them another 20 yrs no matter the results. Where is AlexH? He/she has taught us to “Drink”.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI3Bcgh4Jko

    • CED

      LOL…They have CM’s by number dbut not quality, the MF has been bad for years. It was horrible even in 2015 when they lucked into the Wcup, with help from refs

    • guest

      Where have you been? Long is a centerback now. I have my popcorn out… a back line of Sauerbrunn, Long and Short should be interesting. If only France could finish that should be a good game. What do they have to do to get Hegerberg French citizenship?

    • wosofan

      Long isn’t a CM right now so…

    • Steglitz49

      Lemmings chose cruise?

  • guest

    I know they were pregnant and all but watching another year of ARod and Leroux with the NT doesn’t excite me at all. They seem like ancient history and abby-ball era relics. When do we get to see some new talents? I guess the US is still waiting for the new Alex Morgan.

    • Reality

      Morgan’s single greatest year (2012) was during the abby-ball era. What the US needs are players who are not just fast and physical but also have abilities that transcend the USWNT “star” system where the emphasis is on individual glory. Technical skills in the context of a team oriented approach will expand the ability of the NT to play a versatile and complete game. Morgan herself appreciates this which is why she is now in France trying to improve her game. Whether Ellis understands this remains to be seen. She has made a series of changes based on retirement and injury, but whether this represents a real transformation of the USWNT is still in question.

      • guest

        I mean “the new morgan” in the sense of a young talent that is exciting to watch… and Morgan was one of the best in the world during that window when she emerged.

        • Reality

          Morgan emerged at a unique moment when social media was exploding on the cultural scene and she benefited from that timing. This is not to take away from her accomplishment in 2012 when she should have won the FIFA POY. At present, there is a lot of young talent in the NT system but the current management is not only having trouble identifying these young players but more importantly is not developing them properly. The emphasis remains primarily on speed, physicality and potential star power as opposed to balanced players who can contribute to a true team oriented approach.

          • Steglitz49

            Not speed. Acceleration. The key is acceleration.

          • HOFCToDi

            Pure gibberish.

            USWNT Career
            FIFA Top 10 Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored
            Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 34
            Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
            Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3

            Christen Press is the quintessential international FRAUD.

            4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
            78 caps
            2 head coaches

            Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

            garbage time
            prima donna
            selfish shot hog
            tomato cans

        • Steglitz49

          though Japan walked off with the silverware

      • Gary Diver

        “Morgan herself appreciates this which is why she is now in France trying to improve her game.”

        I think the theory of improving her game at this point in her career is a joke. Twenty-seven year old players don’t wake up with new skills sets or new soccer IQ.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOQzMd9Ffn8

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgA9KqWlY_w

        • Reality

          Morgan has spent her whole career in the USSF system where her strengths have been catered to and carefully nurtured. She is now in a very different environment where her strengths may not fit as well to the OL style of play and her ability to adapt will be tested. Morgan is not going to change her fundamental style nor gain significantly in skill acquirement. What I would hope is that her experience will enable her to be more flexible and diverse in her play on the pitch so that when she returns to the USWNT, she will be able to contribute more fully to the more progressive system that Ellis says she is trying to implement. Of course, there is still the continuing impediment of Lloyd to be reckoned with but that is another conversation.

          • kernel_thai

            If use been watching the OL matches, Morgan is looking to combine and move a lot more. This will help blend better with players like Press The other thing worth noting is OL built there 3back with Renard in the center with fast CBs Buchanan and Bathy on her flanks. I guess they didn’t realize ur supposed to move ur world class CB outside and put a non defender in her spot.

          • Reality

            “…Morgan is looking to combine and move a lot more.” This is certainly what she needs to focus on since heretofore on the NT, her primary mission was to speed down the field to get behind the defense. I would assume that Prêcheur is trying his best to integrate Morgan into his system…I wonder if Ellis is looking at his formation…

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ea46c5fae0275c6100ee04a90ccc5e4f4e08aebb5b42feeb8046c4d44b7acbe3.png

          • HOFCToDi

            Calendar Year 2016
            FIFA Top 10 Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored, USWNT Assists Provided
            Christen Press – 0, 0

            Christen Press is the quintessential international fraud.

            4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
            78 caps
            2 head coaches

            Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

            garbage time
            prima donna
            selfish shot hog
            tomato cans

          • kernel_thai

            Ellis would have Abily playing CB between Renard and Buchanan

          • DNG

            I know(think) you’re making a joke here but the entire reason Long is playing CB is precisely because the US does not have a CB in the team or coming up who can distribute the ball like Renard(She’s better than Long). If they did Ellis wouldn’t both moving Long from the midfield.

          • Breakers fan

            Look for CB Mandy Freeman’s distribution skills this coming year in the NWSL (Sky Blue). They were great at USC, and I’m hoping that will continue.

          • Reality

            Wherever Prêcheur plays Abily, I hope he lets her do the free kicks like in this week’s game…

            https://mobile.twitter.com/fifi5035/status/828251840072544261/video/1

          • Steglitz49

            Lyon is 2 letters more than OL but easier to follow. Get with WoSo.!

            Do you type AR or the Gunners when you refer to HAO or CH or Chelsea for Crystal? Maybe NL? Or BRA?

          • Steglitz49

            Alex Morgan is paid an allegedly 25,000€ per month by Lyon.

            Put that into your pipe and smoke it!

          • HOFCToDi

            Reality is a blithering idiot, a clueless moron, and a worthless troll.

          • Steglitz49

            Alexandra has the campaign medals. She has the WC = WoSo Cross, not to be confused with the VC.

        • HOFCToDi

          Wake up and smell the coffee.

          Calendar Year 2016
          FIFA Top 10 Ranked Opponents
          USWNT Goals Scored
          Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 6
          Horan (DOB 26 May 1994) – 2
          Dunn (DOB 03 Jul 1992) – 1
          Heath (DOB 29 May 1988) – 1
          Johnston (DOB 06 Apr 1992) – 1
          Lloyd (DOB 16 Jul 1982) – 1
          Mewis (DOB 09 Oct 1992) – 1

          By the way, Christen Press is not on the list.

          ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/lineups

          Christen Press is the quintessential international fraud.

          4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
          78 caps
          2 head coaches

          Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

          garbage time
          prima donna
          selfish shot hog
          tomato cans

        • HOFCToDi

          Wake up and smell the coffee.

          USWNT Career
          FIFA Top 10 Ranked Opponents
          USWNT Goals Scored
          Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 34
          Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
          Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3

          Christen Press is the quintessential international FRAUD.

          4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
          78 caps
          2 head coaches

          Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

          garbage time
          prima donna
          selfish shot hog
          tomato cans

          • CED

            Wake up and smell your obsession. Did you make a pass at Press and she blew you off? You’re obsession is that of a spurned psychopath stalker.

          • HOFCToDi

            CED stands for ……….

            Certified
            Extraordinary
            Dumbass

            Christen Press
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            Knockout Stage
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

          • CED

            Your a psychopath stalker. Take your seroquel. Press doesn’t know or car who the hell you are but your psychotically obsessed posting the same spam BS day after day after day for years. How goddam pathetic is your life! Wipe the cheetos and drool of your face, take your psych meds and come out you mom’s basement. Are you living with the dead body of your mother ? You’re a Norman Bates

          • guest

            HOFCToDi is a trolling bot, perhaps best just to ignore

          • HOFCToDi

            Your stupidity is unrivaled.

          • HOFCToDi

            Blah! Blah! Blah!

            CED stands for ……….

            Certified
            Extraordinary
            Dumbass

            Enjoy the goose eggs!

            Christen Press
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            Knockout Stage
            Goals – 0, Assists – 0

          • wosofan

            It really is creepy how much time he spends on it. Not liking a particular player is normal but obsession is scary.

        • Steglitz49

          It is funny how sports people like Diggins, Compton and Randall, who have achieved stuff for the US, don’t get a mention in dispatches States side but are the toast of the people back in winter Europe.

      • Steglitz49

        Alexandra the Great = Charlotte Kalla or, if you prefer, Jessica Diggins

      • HOFCToDi

        Reality is a blithering idiot, a clueless moron, and a worthless troll.

      • HOFCToDi

        Sunday, 21 Feb 2016
        TSG announces CWOQ Best XI, Awards

        http://www.ussoccer.com/~/media/images/wnt/gallery-images/2016/02/160221-wnt-v-can/photo-gallery/160221-wnt-vs-can-photo-gallery19.jpg?h=600&w=786&la=en&hash=BF5ABEEA5BE7034EF13FA4F320F9E7BB8E549331&amp

        concacaf.com/article/tsg-announces-cwoq-best-xi-awards

        By the way, Christen Press is not on the list.

        Christen Press is the quintessential international FRAUD.

        4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
        78 caps
        2 head coaches

        Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

        garbage time
        prima donna
        selfish shot hog
        tomato cans

      • HOFCToDi

        Friday, 11 Mar 2016
        Morgan, Solo and the USA Sweep Awards at 2016 SBC

        http://www.ussoccer.com/~/media/images/wnt/gallery-images/2016/03/160309-wnt-v-ger/160309-wnt-vs-ger-gallery20.jpg?h=559&w=800&la=en&hash=B1A7B6E0C01C796F4C31CF422F0CC370A4D5CF89&amp

        ussoccer.com/stories/2016/03/11/13/17/160311-wnt-morgan-solo-and-the-usa-sweep-awards-at-2016-shebelieves-cup

        By the way, Christen Press is not on the list.

        Christen Press is the quintessential international FRAUD.

        4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
        78 caps
        2 head coaches

        Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

        garbage time
        prima donna
        selfish shot hog
        tomato cans

      • HOFCToDi

        Christen Press
        2016 Summer Olympic Games
        Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 6, Shots on Goal 1
        Penalty Kicks Attempted 1, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

        Christen Press
        2016 Rio Olympics
        12 Aug 2016
        USA 1 SWE 1
        Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 2, Shots on Goal 0
        Penalty Kicks Attempted 1, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

        Christen Press
        2016 Rio Olympics
        09 Aug 2016
        USA 2 COL 2
        Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 4, Shots on Goal 1
        Penalty Kicks Attempted 0, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

        Christen Press is the quintessential international FRAUD.

        4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
        78 caps
        2 head coaches

        Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

        garbage time
        prima donna
        selfish shot hog
        tomato cans

      • AlexH

        Or perhaps Jill’s constant yammering about playing technical modern soccer is distracting her team of superior athletes and forcing them to be something that they are not. The USA did very well in the Abby ball era and the Carli ball era, and I would have no problem if we played ugly direct soccer on the attack and brutal thug ball on the back line so long as we win.

        • #1Fan

          This is a great point. Im not saying I agree, but I do think there is a lot of merit to your comment. The USSF is trying to change the style of soccer played. Problem is we dont seem to know the type of players that can play it. We dont know what they look like and we sure as hell are not developing them in large numbers.

          it is hard for the USSF to accept that the development system current produces far more athletes who are learning soccer as they go than it does well rounded soccer players who are surrounded by the game from a young age and start with a tactical foundation from watching it that allows them to build on. So many of out current youth “stars” come from backgrounds that are steeped in soccer. The GDA ia an attempt to change that but its wont address the fact that soccer is not a cultural saple in teh USA so to me it will have limited success.

          most off the fans of a NT just want to win. They dont care about style. Italy have been a perennial WC contender on the mens side and no one would say they played beautiful soccer all the time. Go watch tehg Brazil tem of 1982 or teh Dutch team of the late 70s and early 80s ..beautiful losers.

          we can argue as to whether the world leader in WoSo has an obligation to play attractive soccer or not, but I do think that the US players ( especially the older ones) are caught in teh middle of a shift in style and some of them are just not good enough technically or tactically to excel in it. Brian is miles ahead of most of them in this regard and she often looks like a fish out of water becasue she is just not on the same page as her more direct teammates.

          This also explains why (almost) a whole section of players seem to be getting bypassed for extreme youth. thee youth players are closer to the template that the USSF seem to want. problem is Im not sure they can really play that way at the highest levels of the game. In fact there is a bit of a backlash vs athletes in the YYNT set up , even athletes that can actually play well enough to dominate top teams in the ECNL on a regular basis. Just like your NWSL players who are getting bypassed , so are kids in the top leagues who regularly put up huge numbers relative to the kids they select. The selection process from top to bottom is not really merit based. There are ECNL teams with multiple YNT players on them who do not play attractive soccer at Club level and grind out 1-0 wins. If you watched the games you would struggle to pick out the so called elite talents, and yet those kids are repeatedly selected.

          What we do know is that the US produce some fantastic female athletes and I believe that they need to play a style that suits what they produce. We are caught in between. Lloyd is a great example of that- she is not a technician and she is not ideal for a fast paced pressing direct style either. yet she is the poster child for the team. It will be interesting to see where they go over the next cycle but whatever they do, they need to start establishing consistency of focus now. Its all over the map at present

          • Breakers fan

            Anybody here ever see Mimi Rangell of Long Beach St, play? She’s an example of this type of player(smart, very technical) that is being overlooked. CM for them but can also play left mid, left-footed, won Midfielder of the Year 3 straight years in the Big West. Her team beat national champs USC last year, to give you an idea of their quality. Not even drafted. She has a highlight reel on Vimeo for anyone who wants to check her out.

            And Serina Kashimoto, who declared for the draft, in effect saying “I want to stay in America and play in the NWSL” – as far as I know no one has gone after her. I would LOVE to see these 2 players in the NWSL. You know about Kashimoto – prototypical great Japanese player – as we both agree, probably as good or better than Lavelle, at least in terms of how we see her. It’s heart-breaking for me to see these omissions.

          • Steglitz49

            If Serina is Japanese that means a foreign player slot unless she has a Green Card.

            It is easy to forget that the WC-15 dice were loaded heavily in the US’s favor. Even so, if France had played smart, they would have had the run that England did and might well have beaten Japan, in which case the Final might not have been so peculiar..

        • Reality

          Time inevitably moves on and what once was valid is no longer so. In the past, we relied on speed and athleticism which other teams could not match at that time. The U.S. struggled to win in the WC2015 and then lost in OG2016 because we failed to make the transition to a more diversified and complete game. Our direct game alone is no longer capable of overpowering the better teams. Other teams have invested in younger players who match our traditional strengths. They also are more advanced technically and can employ a more diversified attack than we are capable of now. A reliance on “…ugly direct soccer on the attack and brutal thug ball on the back line…” is no longer sufficient now or especially in the future.

          What we need is a balance of strategies to fully take advantage of our enormous resource talent. That would certainly include our historical dependence on speed and and athleticism in a direct game, but would also incorporate more technical skills in a team oriented and diversified strategy that emphasizes passing, possession, and combinations in addition to a direct physical game.

          • #1Fan

            I am not convinced that the RoW could deal with a well coached direct pressing style that REALLY used our best athletic players. Liverpool do it . Dortmund do it. The athletic advantage the US have is still huge. Its no coincidence that among the US most effective players are the likes of Dunn, Pugh , Morgan – not really technicians.

            i dont think we have every REALLY committed to caching the best out of the traits we have. We are now searching to copy some ideal of the game that in reality changes ALL the time. The game evolves ( esp on the mens side) I feel the US women are a step behind in trying to copy others.

          • Reality

            I fail to see why this has to be a zero sum argument. It is not one or the other in terms of a direct game v. technical but rather the best of both worlds. We should be supporting, developing and identifying players who are not only athletic and fast but who also are capable of technical skills that will enable the NT to adjust to both a France and a Sweden. But unfortunately, we are still in the midst of an identity crisis and Ellis is still clinging to the past while making some half-hearted efforts to make a transition to the future.

          • #1Fan

            i dont see it as zero sum either BUT i will say that very few teams in world football do not have a prevalent style. Yes some can adapt, but many try and dictate their style odf play. The US should be a dictator. i reckon th e RoW would really struggle to adapt. Thats all Im saying. You want your players to be flexible, but you also want them to impose your plan.

            Within a pressing plan, there is room for different types of player. So its not a one type of player thing. Its a tactical thing.

            It si interesting to look at who the actual casualties are of the style change. Are there any ? Have any meaningful players in the prime of their careers been told that they no longer fit the plan? I cant thin of any. This suggests that we are still perhaps trying to fit some square pegs in round holes.

          • Reality

            And tactics should also be flexible enough to adapt to the particular opponent and circumstances of the game. That would require players who can be direct, play possession, or whatever is required.

            Since you asked, there should be one player who is told that they no longer fit any plan. As I have often remarked, Lloyd is a critical factor in holding the NT back. She is representative of the older generation on the NT that has relied largely on physical play to gain advantage. The illusion is that because she is able to score from set plays and poaching that this qualifies her as the greatest forward ever. I don’t think so. She lacks the experience and essential skills in technique and ball handling to be a true forward such as Morgan and Press. The younger players coming up are not only athletic but have more to offer in terms of soccer skills. Lloyd’s presence on the field, just like Wambach’s did, influences the style of play, inhibits a more balanced and diverse attack, restricts current players from being utilized appropriately and prevents new players from being utilized at all.

          • Breakers fan

            I think you answer my question above, here. I agree with you. Will be interesting to see how minutes are distributed at the SBC.

          • Reality

            I would add that the conflict in the USNWT between holding with the past and developing the future is directly reflected in the constantly shifting lineups and substitutions. Ellis cannot or will not make a definite commitment to one or the other, but has tried to straddle both worlds. Some of the veterans can no longer play to their previous standard and are limited in their technical ability. The newer players have not been able to successfully integrate themselves since they have not been allowed to play consistently in a settled position.

          • #1Fan

            you will see how she fits in at man City. That will be interesting. From a soccer PoV i dont see it as quite the coup the media does.

          • DNG

            It’s not but they can still set up the team around her to allow her to score goals. Only Chelsea ladies and Arsenal ladies are a real threat to MCFC

          • Reality

            Hah! That should be interesting to see if Lloyd adjusts to the team or demands that they adjust to her. 🙂

            http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/thegoalkeeper/No-deal-at-this-time-for-Carli-Lloyd-to-join-Manchester-City.html

          • Breakers fan

            I agree with a lot of this – was going to write the same thing myself. Would want to follow-up on one thing – you say Ellis is making “some half-hearted efforts to make a transition to the future”. What, to your way of thinking, would full-hearted efforts look like, be?

          • HOFCToDi

            Oh really?

            Eight midfielders under the age of 25:

            Dunn (DOB 23 Jul 1992)
            Killion (DOB 27 Jul 1992)
            Mewis (DOB 09 Oct 1992)
            Brian (DOB 26 Feb 1993)
            Horan (DOB 26 May 1994)
            Lavelle (DOB 14 May 1995)
            Sullivan (DOB 20 Dec 1995)
            Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)

          • Breakers fan

            My agreement had to do with the first part of his post about “style of play”. That we don’t currently play 100% direct. There is technical, skilled play and passing already in our team’s play. Then I asked him a question because I too feel like she’s making a pretty strong move towards youth, thus the question. The answer came back that the “half-hearted” nature, he felt, of the transition was due to an unwillingness to move on from Carli Lloyd. That’s what I also agree with but I know you don’t, so you don’t have to reiterate it, if you’re tempted to, with Lloyd vs. Press stats.

          • HOFCToDi

            I never brought up Carli Lloyd in the discussion whatsoever. Meanwhile, Christen Press did nothing for the USWNT during the 2016 calendar year aside from tomato cans and garbage time.

            As for the other argument, USA vs SWE:

            2016 Rio Olympics
            12 Aug 2016
            USA versus SWE
            Shots Attempted
            USA 27 SWE 6

            2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
            12 Jun 2015
            USA versus SWE
            Shots Attempted
            USA 12 SWE 9

          • Breakers fan

            I brought up Lloyd and was anticipating your response. If I got that wrong, apologies. The topic was “half-hearted” vs. “full-hearted” transitioning to the future and which is Jill Ellis engaging in.? The “half-hearted” view includes Lloyd as a major player. The “full-hearted’ one doesn’t.

          • HOFCToDi

            Midfielders under the age of 25:
            Eight
            (Dunn, Killion, Mewis, Brian, Horan, Lavelle, Sullivan, Pugh)

            Midfielders over the age of 25:
            Four
            (Lloyd, Rapinoe, Long, Heath)

            I’m not even counting Pinto into the discussion.

          • Breakers fan

            Roster facts granted. Moving on, do you feel that Ellis is engaged in a full-hearted transition into the future or a half-hearted one, based not only on who is on the roster but who receives playing time?

          • HOFCToDi

            As best as one can expect due to the restrictions of the current CBA. Come back to me the day the USWNTPA agrees to a pay to play structure.

          • HOFCToDi

            What a bunch of bull crap. The central midfield has been overhauled:

            Killion (DOB 27 Jul 1992)
            Mewis (DOB 09 Oct 1992)
            Brian (DOB 26 Feb 1993)
            Horan (DOB 26 May 1994)
            Lavelle (DOB 14 May 1995)
            Sullivan (DOB 20 Dec 1995)

    • guest

      They are trying to push the young star thing with Pugh.

    • Steglitz49

      PRegnancy = PR

      Get it?

      • guest

        How many times do you have to say the same f-ing thing? We get it, you are obsessed with pregnancies.

        • Steglitz49

          You mean to laud and magnify productive heterosexuality, I take it.

          There is no future for WoSo if it is seen as a coven of lesbians. Remember and please acknowledge that 4% of 95% is more than 70% of 5%.

  • Gary Diver

    Observations:

    1. Megan Rapinoe
    “Julie Foudy tweeted that she spoke with Ellis regarding Rapinoe’s omission from the latest roster. Ellis told her, ‘We have lots of depth in wide areas with [Mallory] Pugh and [Meghan] Klingenberg back in the mix. I told Megan she just needs time [to] work her way back in and to get game fit. This is a marathon, not a sprint.'”

    Words out of Ellis’ own mouth makes her look like an idiot for using Rapinoe during OG16. That decision to play Rapinoe led to the draw with Colombia, Solo’s disastrous flub, and a wasted sub in the QF.

    When is Klingenberg exchangeable with Rapinoe? In fact, Klingenberg is over the hill and needs to be de-activated like Engen. I thought Ellis is working towards WC19. I guess only in her head.

    2. Amy Rodriguez and Sydney Leroux
    Does anybody see either A-Rod or Leroux on WC19 roster? Has there been any reports of Leroux’s fitness or training? Aren’t these players similar 1-dimensional players? I thought the “run and gun” era was over was being replaced with more positional and technical soccer. Can’t see any USWNT future for Rodriquez when Leroux is 3 years younger and in her prime was better than Rodriquez.

    3. Omission of Kealia Ohai
    Didn’t Ohai play well in the limited amount of field time she received in the late fall Friendlies? Does this reaffirm that Ellis personally doesn’t like Ohai?

    4. Rose Lavelle
    We will ever see Lavelle on the pitch? Everybody talks about her talent, but few have actually been able to see her demonstrate it.

    5. Mallory Pugh
    She is listed as UCLA. Is there any evidence that she is currently taking classes at UCLA. If she is not currently enrolled at UCLA, she should not be listed as UCLA. Has Pugh done any training since U20 WC16?

    6. Brianna Pinto
    Could somebody explain what the deal is here? Sanchez, not Pinto, was the best US player at U17 WC16 and Pinto was not included in the U20 WC16 roster. If Ellis in not going to play her in the matches, it would be better to allow Pinto to fulfill her school obligations. US players miss too many school days for what they get in return.

    P.S. I expect there is something personal between Hope Solo and Jill Ellis. There is a good chance that Ellis heard Solo criticize her coaching decisions. If that is true, then the story about Solo’s Sweden comments was a ruse to hide bad blood between Ellis and Solo. Ellis OG performance deserves condemnation, but players have to bite their lips or pay the consequences.

    The first 2017 SBC match is against Germany, unlike 2016 when the last match was against Germany. If Ellis loses the first match, she will immediately be on the hot seat. It is not out of the question that USWNT could lose two of the three matches. That would give us more to talk about than USWNT winning two matches.

    • guest

      There were rumblings that Solo was vocally critical of Ellis after the Sweden match and before she was fired.

      • Gary Diver

        I have suspected that Solo’s firing was a personal issue with Ellis and Ellis will neither forgive nor forget.

        • Steglitz49

          The turnips always get their woman

          • rkmid71

            The irony of Pia effectively ending Solo’s career. “She’s a piece of work” “I’m going to Rio, she’s going home.” LIterally I might add. And Lloyd was captain, it probably was wise she didn’t say anything at the time — it wouldn’t have been pretty. “So so sensitive” “Could be among the worst players on the team at any time when she doubted the coaching staff’s faith in her” Pia did say nice things too, but nobody remembers!

          • Steglitz49

            Pia took over the USWNT at a low point in their history. The USWNT was striven by internecine feud. Pia read them the riot act. They sharpened up and won OG-08, without Abby to boot. Pia rescued and launched Hope’s career.

            Alex Morgan and 5 other recruits of Pia’s can’t be wrong.

            Guess what? After the Bomb in Brasilia, there was no Pia to help the USWNT. “I don’t give a crap. I am going to Rio; she is going home.”

        • guest

          I have suspected (or made up) that moon is cheese
          but that does not make it anything other than speculation

      • guest

        that could be why it seemed carli lloyd wasn’t more publically supportative of hope solo after the termination. and the rest of hope’s teammates for that matter. they don’t want to be on the firing line next.

        • guest

          most of us assumed the olympic rumors of infighting was between hope solo and her teammates. but maybe it was really between hope and jill.

    • Steglitz49

      You miss the fundamental point: both ARod and Syd are mothers. Good healthy hetero ladies.

    • HOFCToDi

      2. You don’t have a freakin’ clue what you are talking about.

      USWNT Career
      FIFA Top 10 Ranked Opponents
      USWNT Goals Scored
      Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
      Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3

      Christen Press is the quintessential international FRAUD.

      4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
      78 caps
      2 head coaches

      Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

      garbage time
      prima donna
      selfish shot hog
      tomato cans

  • guest

    Solo has inked a TV reality show hosting deal. So much for her being toxic.

    • guest

      Stars really are above the rest of us. She has a pending criminal case against her and becomes a TV producer. Meanwhile people with things like petty theft or other misdemeanor charges can’t find work, period.

    • CED

      Reality tv is based on deplorable and/or train wreck people..ie…Hope Solo.

      • Som Termanni

        So Lifetime viewers, then? Much of their current programming is reality.

    • guest

      I won’t be watching. Can’t stand her and wish she would just go away. The transcript of what she said to those cops when she was arrested disgusts me to this day.

    • guest

      what is the name of the show?

      • Bruce

        Likely candidates:

        Abandon All Hope – Follows Solo’s quest to return to the NT…
        Hope’s Dashed – Randy Waldrum needs a 4th goalie…
        The Great White Hope – Solo takes up MMA…
        The Audacity of Hope – Solo/Pinoe 2020!

        • sudeep das

          Or Hopelessly Hopeful (about returning to the full squad)

  • AlexH

    I am beginning to think that the “Old Girls Club” was a better way to select a team than Jill’s, “Older Life Tenured Federation Employees Benevolence Society.” At least the players could, when the chips were down like in 2015, band together, force Jill to abandon her game plan and then play to actually win. Now we are just going to get federation pets on the team that won’t have the gumption to anything but follow orders. It will be like watching a bunch of East Germans play but without the benefits of the performance enhancing drugs.

    • Steglitz49

      In WC-74 the DDR beat West-Germany in their group game. It did not avail much because the DDR ended up having to play Holland and Brazil in the next phase. Their strip was blue shirts and white shorts.

  • VaFan51
    • mockmook

      “Rapinoe and Ohai’s exclusion may be a sign that players on the bubble, be they rookies or veterans, need the NWSL to prove that they have the fitness and consistency necessary to nail down a place on the national team.”

      Don’t see how that jibes with the rest of the article.

    • #1Fan

      I cut this out and have the following observation

      The US WNT has long sustained itself with youth, dating back to the infancy of the team and continuing through the modern game, with Lindsey Horan debuting at 18 and Mallory Pugh breaking into the starting lineup at 17. Pugh and Ashley Sanchez, who trained with the full team in 2016, both received call-ups while still in high school. Pinto’s inclusion is different. Unlike her recent forebears, Pinto is not a human highlight reel. In the 270 minutes she played at the U-17 World Cup she recorded only 1 assist. Instead she was the midfield engine and playmaker, quietly keeping possession and pulling the strings for a team that too often fell back on athleticism, a charge that could be levelled at the full team today. Her composure on the ball made her a standout on a team that lost to Ghana and Japan and ultimately failed to advance from their group. This has become a trend in the past few YNT cycles: while teams underperform at world tournaments, select players get next level exposure. It’s encouraging to see intelligent play rewarded and promising youth promoted, but there’s also the worry that the US’ youth teams in 2016 were over-reliant on star players rather than technique or tactics and focusing on the youth pipeline overlooks professional talent in the NWSL.

      How can you be pulling the strings for a team that is frankly getting hammered in every game bar one? What strings? Would it not be better to see IF she can pull those strings for the U20 team at the next WC ?

      I guess the CM cupboard is seen to be that bare by the people in charge. That says an awful lot about what our technical development team have been doing for the last 4 years

      • DNG

        You make a great point about that claim. I didn’t see any US player pulling any strings at the U17 WC. They were thoroughly outplayed in each match and the overall game plan against tough teams seemed to be to sit deep and counter. So maybe she could be that player but we certainly didn’t see it at the WC.

        What I’m wondering is why US Soccer seems to think that Pinto or whoever else they like at CM is able to do a better job of that than a player like Colaprico or even DiBernardo. It’s almost like they’re so caught up looking for youth players who can make the jump(or a taste) that some great NWSL players are being almost completely ignored.

        • #1Fan

          i could not agree more. DC and VdB pulled the strings for Chicago no ? And Dc on a pretty good UVA team no? to Breakers above – do you think that Swanson thinks Pinto is better than Colaprico ? I highly doubt it

      • Breakers fan

        last paragraph — OR it says they’re bypassing quality players who are out there.

  • guest

    Another deliberate snub of Ohai, like the one in Sandy where the coach wouldn’t even let her sit on the bench, after Ohai made the statement that her parents were going to be so proud just to see her sitting there. This time she gets passed over to give a young, unproven player the “experience” of playing with the full team. Nothing against Pinto, but is it more important to give a young player a learning opportunity than to reward a hard working player with a proven track record in the NWSL like Ohai who was 1 point short of the scoring title? So much for merit-based call ups. How can you even motivate your players to do better when you won’t even let their competition on the same field? One thing’s for certain, the veterans must sleep easy at night knowing they have the CBA in place to keep their jobs safe.

    • Breakers fan

      That Sandy snub really bothered me too. Completely unnecessary. She played the next game – why not switch it around? And even though Ashley Hatch, who played ahead of Ohai in that game, had her BYU teammates there she is from Arizona, and if you’re ranking it, parents take precedence over college teammates, easily.

      edit: possible Hatch’s parents were there too. If they were, I would go by age seniority if you know you’re going to play 1 of them in that game and the other in the next.

      • Steglitz49

        It makes me think of when Jackson and Cheshire were awarded the Victoria Cross. Briefly, when Leonard Cheshire went to Buckingham Palace to receive his VC from King George VI, he was accompanied by Norman Jackson who was also due to receive his award on that day. Cheshire insisted that despite the difference in rank (group captain and warrant officer), they should approach the King together.

        Jackson remembers that Cheshire said to the King, “This chap stuck his neck out more than I did – he should get his VC first!” The King had to keep to protocol, but Jackson later said that he would “never forget what Cheshire said.”

    • #1Fan

      Not sure why so many people think the Pinto thing is differentiated a “learning opportunity” . Is it not that for every p[layer called inn who has less than say 10 caps? I see the Pinto thing as purely based on the USSF perception of merit.

      • Breakers fan

        Great point about how it would be a learning opportunity for all who have less than 10 caps, certainly for those who also have zero like Pinto – read perhaps Mandy Freeman, — the list could go on and on.

        Could you elaborate on your last sentence, please. You’re claiming that by choosing Pinto the USSF is saying…………..(fill in the blank, please. thanks!)

        • #1Fan

          they are picking her on merit basis what they think merit is . To them that is doing well in a NT camp over every other data point seemingly no matter how strong or weak those data points are.

          • Breakers fan

            Thanks. Don’t forget that they see and have seen Pinto for 100s of, maybe 1000 hours more than we have. Just saying that that is true, even though yeah, we have had a chance to see her for a few hours.

            I’m watching those NTC games, trying to get a sense of her. Only halfway into the first half of one game, so far.

          • #1Fan

            Have they ? i dont think the ultimate decision makers has. Not in meaningful games. This is the issue. They are relying HEAVILY on spoken word and reports written by BJ Snow and his assistants. people with a vested interest in being right. There reason we stick with the same payers over and over. Its called CYA.

            I think you are overestimating how much scouting is done and who does it.

          • Breakers fan

            I mean her immediate coaches. I realize Ellis has seen her very little in comparison. I’m counting on Snow and his assistant coaches being good talent evaluators with my statement there. I don’t know if they are but, people at that level, I’m certainly not going to assume they’re idiots either. And yes I am aware of the vested interest component at work. I’m talking beyond that – pure unadulterated evaluation of her abilities and a projection of them. Not saying I agree just that I don’t disrespect outright their view of her.

          • #1Fan

            Why would you trust BJ Snow as a talent evaluator? What has he done to earn your trust? He picked a team for eh WC and had TWO YEARS to get it right. as I said above, he had kids go to every camp and left them at home come tourney time. Does that inspire trust ? Not to me. Either you ship those kids out earlier and see others or they go. It happened to more than one as well.

            Does being JE assistant at UCLA give you a job for life and make you a good evaluator? i dont think so.

            With the sheer number of kids playing in the USA and two years to get it right,and kids on your ream who were playing FOR THE SECOND TIME there is no way on gods green earth you should not be getting out of the group Add to that 2 kids who the FULL NT caoch is saying are close to FULL NT read ….cmon something does not add up right?

            Have I made my opinion on him and his staff clear?

          • Breakers fan

            I hear you, about Snow. My thought there was that if he and his staff have, after 100s of hours, chosen Pinto above the others (well, after Pugh and Sanchez) then maybe they can get *that* 1 single, solitary call right. That being said, of course it is also quite possible he is NOT a good evaluator,. that he is wrong about Pinto. Recall that I feel that many others could, should have been brought in before her, as you do. And about Ellis – no, no guarantee of her either being a good talent scout. I’m just hoping they are – but it would be that whole group, Swanson included, not just the 2 top people, who are making this decision. Again, it is not one I would have made.

            I didn’t see some of those U17 WC games – were there any we should have won, but didn’t? Any that we played better than the other team but some bad luck caused the loss?

          • #1Fan

            I have to be clear. I do not think this is how you develop a player. He could be right about her, but the elevation seems forced and totally unnecessary basis what we have seen. Its not a collective decision. Swanson coaches the players who are there. he does not pick.

            On the WC games no. Noe, we were out shot over the tournament by i think a 4-1 margin. We were horrendous at connecting passes fro back to front.

            BJ took at 14 yr old to start at RB. She got so badly torched by Ghana that she did not play in the biggest game of the event for the US vs Japan. please get your head around that when we are evaluating him. he had 2 years to pick his best X! and got it so wrong that he made last minute changes for a must win game. Why as Ashley Sanchez no on the roster? What impact do you think seeing Pinto go ahead of her will ahve? bear in mind Sanchez was deemed a necessity on 2 WC teams this year. I voiced my opinion at the time . They should not have done it. Same with Pugh. let other kids have a chance to be seen and evaluated.

            Pinto may end up being a mainstay on the US team. but no one will convince me that this is the right way to do it.

          • Breakers fan

            You’re certain Swanson doesn’t have a voice in this? How do you know that? You may be right, just seems hard for us to know the dynamics there.

            Didn’t know about the 14 year old. Sounds like I too would move on from Snow based on all of this.

            My assumption about Pinto over Sanchez here was that it was purely a positional selection for a perceived greater need. I like Sanchez more from what I’ve seen but I could understand making position a priority. The impact on Sanchez?My guess is that it will make her work harder and that she will be ok with it, move on, and probably understand it was based on position. They may have even spoken with her to explain it, I don’t know.
            I would have rewarded an older player too.

          • #1Fan

            do you think Pinto would be ahead of Colaprico if he did? You are entitled to your guess, I have seen many young athletes get too much too soon and go the other way when faced with hardships. I hope she is not one of them.

            I fear that communication is not a USSF strong point so I doubt it. There are a whole hep of CMs from the u16 to NWSL that may well look at it differently to you.

          • Breakers fan

            Good point about Colaprico and Swanson. Odds are he’d chose his ex-player. But the 16 vs. 24 factor is a significant one. Not saying that makes Pinto the right choice it just frames the question much differently if they feel that is the way to go with players. My guess though along with you is that his voice if he had one at all was a minor one.

            About “how I look at it” – I want to make sure that you saw that about 5 times I’ve said I would have picked older players than Pinto.

          • #1Fan

            I hear you. I’m not addressing any of this at anyone. Just an opinion. I meant your take on coming back stronger and working harder. Some will just quit or play elsewhere

          • Breakers fan

            Oh, ok, good to know what you were referring to. But Sanchez, one tiny, in my view, snub like this – highly doubt it will send her flying off the rails. Other players who haven’t gotten a whiff of what Sanchez has, I could see that eventually happening and no doubt it has for many, understandably.

          • #1Fan

            You don’t know girls 🙂 there is a pecking order and thus has shaken it up big time. That is another key point. The girls know and this is a big surprise to them. Trust me on that.

          • Breakers fan

            Haha – interesting. I believe you. I hope they can ……..roll with the punches! The great have to, the great can and do.

          • Breakers fan

            Do you think that the jealousy quotient is so high among (some of) her teammates that it will change the way they interact with her during games – not passing to her when she is open, stuff like that? If I saw that and I was the coach there would be quick backfire for that behavior. The offender would be subbed out immediately if it was clear she was intentionally not making the right soccer play.

          • #1Fan

            No. And I don’t want to call it jealousy. It’s more surprise. The kids know who can play and they respect it. This is out of left field

          • Breakers fan

            Good to hear. So you think above all they’ll be happy for their buddy and teammate and be able to move on without a lot of anguish and tears and not hold it against her when she returns, even if they think better players, at whatever age group, were passed over? If they think/know that they should also be able to realize that Pinto just “answered the phone” here. She was the effect, not the cause.

          • #1Fan

            This is just an extreme example of what they face from camp to camp. Kids perform well and don’t get called back. Others do nothing and seem to game 9 lives. Water finds its o level in the end. This is just a talking point but an illustration of how disjointed some of this process is e

          • Breakers fan

            Quick question: When you said “(the kids) respect it” – what is “it” in that sentence?

          • #1Fan

            Most of them know who can play and they respect that. Camps and call ups do not define the really good ones. Time will

          • Breakers fan

            Thank you. It is interesting to hear the inside look. Human nature at work. Athletes tend to be strong individuals. They work hard and go through a lot and don’t always get much back. This is just 1 more event in the stream; it’s already down river a bit by now. Glad they won’t hold it against her. Your post does hint at the idea that perhaps Pinto is not felt by her peers to be in the elite group of “who can play” but I could be mis-reading you.

          • #1Fan

            You are. She can play. I just think this is too much too soon, but then again maybe its a reflection on how thin they are at CM. Sullivan goes down and next man up is a 16 yr old. Yikes

          • Breakers fan

            Glad I was wrong there. 🙂
            But do you really think she is better than every other 17, 18 year old not yet in college CM, then every college AND every NWSL midfielder who has played centrally?

          • #1Fan

            Do I ? not really but my opinion is irrelevant and with the CBA as is Im not sure they have blank sheet of paper.

          • Breakers fan

            I keep forgetting about that CBA aspect. So if many players are automatically disqualified due to some numbers blockade we shouldn’t be AS shocked as many are. In the end it’ll amount to Pinto doing this – at least the camp part and then going back home. It’s not really earth-shattering. I don’t think it guarantees her future automatic call-ups. I think a significant part of that will be determined by how she does there. My guess is that they like her a lot but aren’t totally sold on her yet. Not that if she doesn’t get the next call-up that she won’t ever get another one. Sanchez has seen how it can be a yes or a no.

          • guest

            I posted a couple you tube videos of kids I think around your kid’s age. I have seen both in person playing against two different of my kids. One kid was on age the other up with my older. Wonder if you know them and have an opinion. They seem to have gotten a look or two and passed on. My opinion is that they are both athletic and unusual in their sophisticated and highly technical game. My kid in ynt is older and describes kids not really getting a fair chance. I wonder if that’s what has happened with them. I hope t see them on upcoming rosters. You seem to know already that recycled unsuccessful players will be again considered. Shame really. I agree it comes from coaches at all levels form YNT to FNT trying to keep their jobs.

          • #1Fan

            Links?

          • guest

            Since kids or their families are putting these on you tube,with their names on them I guess its fair for discussion. both 2019 first 00 second 01

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_obXaf_NGE
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrh52D24Q-8
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7utYc9QM4g

            I think one is pretty well known. High level ACC bound One no record I can find of commitment.

            I named several more in another post in my opinion notable for their creativity. Several have been topics of TDS (for whatever its worth) but they are out there. The others are very well known or I can’t find anything on them so they seem to want to be private so I will respect that.

          • #1Fan

            Nice. Ive seen BM play. I would not say they have been passed on. Thats part of my issue. the USSF create a perception of IN or OUT. This should be an ongoing process where kids reach a level and are then watched, encouraged and brought in to camps for constant evaluation.

            Part of development is going home to work. At this age you just dont need to be in every camp or have the expectation that if you miss one you are out.

            USSF need to keep ALL hess kid engaged and motivated, not feeling like their chafes have gone …by 16.

            Its ludicrous.

          • guest

            Cool thanks. I checked back and yes BM was in a camp last year but there haven’t been many since so maybe will get back in and I will hope the same for the other. I think you have said, and correct me if I misinterpret your position, and I agree from what i have seen that the rosters are pretty static. Shocking frnakly that you say they are static after the shockingly bad performances at the YNT WCs. That static nature would suggest that they may be fighting an uphill battle if the are passed on. True?

          • #1Fan

            uphill battle for what though. In the end talent should win out. The trips and the presto are great, but mine has improved most when she stays home and works on her game. Camp should be a reward fro moving int right direction, not a birthright. Its camp. I think the message i would take way as a WC player is that one or two are carrying the can for th result. I dont think Howell is on the 18s or 19s but to me there is too little turnover. Seems like all the rest are straight in to the next camp. It makes little sense if the goal is identification.

          • guest

            Well this first kid doesn’t appear even to be committed, so I am worried she will be lost as a possible midfielder in the future.
            I no confidence that she won’t be a one and done kid lost to the system, which I think would be a shame. As you have astutely pointed out, they keep giving kids 20th chances and elevating them despite all appearances that they should at least be looking at other kids such as this one. I think it would be a shame some kids are pushed forward without seemingly any justification while others who deserve a chance to get comfortable in the system are denied. One camp followed by another a year later does not allow for that comfort and associated confidence to build, I agree with you that the reason is the cabal trying to keep their jobs by arguing (to Sunil Gulati?) that the YNT are successful because they are successful in their mission statement of preparing a few kids for the full wnt. I hear Sunil and Ellis’ dad are buddies. I don’t believe Sunil cares about WoSo so he probably is fine with this all.
            Do you think the point that Lloyd made in her book that the YNT anointed ones have a better chance of being successful as their faults are overlooked while other’s strengths are minimized? That’s I guess the uphill battle. Uphill battle to the Full WNT if they aren’t regularly in the mix at this age?

          • #1Fan

            You raise some valid concerns. I think the era we live in and the instant access to info makes us judge EVERY step. I know Im guilty of it. We must remember that its a long journey and a few sideways or backwards steps are required to get by the obstacles. Just speaking to what we experienced, the setbacks have been as important (if not more so) in developing than the accolades and successes. The only judgement I care about for my kids is that of the College coach. From there IF they want to try and play at the next level, then its on them to deal with all that entails. It takes many types of player to form a successful unit. From recent selections its clear that the USSF feel we are light at CB and CM. Central roles usually do not require as much athleticism, but more brain. Its no shock that these are the areas we are light. We just dont produce that type of player often. Our strengths lead to wide players and physical/fast forwards

          • mockmook

            ” let other kids have a chance to be seen and evaluated.”

            Might this be what is going on?

            They saw some Sanchez and now they want to see some Pinto?

          • #1Fan

            I think you are taking the comment out of context. I was referring to players playing in both works cups. Play in one. Let another kid experience it. See what you have.

            On a separate note they see the same kids all the time. When it’s the same eyes and opinions they rarely change no matter the results. You have essentially had the same kids at the core since u 14. That suggests that we have far fewer players than many believe

          • #1Fan

            U-18s going to England – same players ..again

          • guest

            No they were really badly outplayed. Could not manage the reduced time and space they were faced with and resorted to boot and hope a forward gets on the end of it. The first US goal against the Japanese was assisted by the GK! second an unjustly given PK. defender had the ball kicked away and Sanchez subsequently tripped over her legs

          • #1Fan

            Perfect summary. So how do you pick out a CM if we could not control the tempo of the game? Your view on the PK is exactly the asme as mine. great tackle never a foul.

      • Breakers fan

        You just answered my question below, further down, so you can skip it here.

      • rkmid71

        Is Pinto a defensive oriented mid? Holding or DM? Does she have Brian like distribution skills? Great 1v1 defending? Or unusual speed quickness to complement Brian, Heath, others. Is she an Henry in the making? Is she essentially replacing some of what Sullivan brought to the table (in her short stint) — though Sullivan proved herself in college. I’ve felt for awhile that we need more speed/acceleration/agility, 1v1 defending skills in space and high soccer iq in DM — someone that can at least contain fast teams like Brazil and France when we turn the ball over and adequately cover for our OBs who are pushing forward so much. I need to watch the U17 WC video.

        • Breakers fan

          Wow – very well said and described – that may be exactly how they see/project Pinto and for the reasons you gave. May be a very prescient post.

          Not sure if you saw my other post saying that the 6 USA U17 games from the last 2 NTC Invitational tournaments are on youtube in their entirety. The 2017 version of that tournament starts tomorrow with the games being shown on ussoccer,com, The other teams are Japan, Korea (not sure if it’s North or South) and England. Great opportunity to see our U17s again. Pinto I believe played in all 6 games of the last 2 years. Watching them – which I plan to do, at least some of them – would be a way to get a good look at her. I can’t find full-game videos of the last WC games so I can’t see her there, unless someone has a link to do that.

          • rkmid71

            Unlike me, I had assumed that JE didn’t care about or prioritize having such a player. Such a player may not be in the YNT pools that they’ve selected (they select mostly forwards and then try to adapt or retrain for other positions). I would be scouring the college ranks, NWSL first before picking some 16 year old U17 YNT player — whose team failed miserably and by all reports the midfield didn’t distinguish itself. They just seem stuck with the players they picked at U14. Who cares about whether you were right or not about player selection? The NFL, MLB, NBA, etc also get it wrong all the time. Also, I care more about U17 World Cup games than some friendlies. That’s the proof in the pudding. If she didn’t stand out in a major way there (and it’s hard to think she did given the team performance), what are we talking about? Let her develop in college and/or with the U20s. .

          • Breakers fan

            That NTC Invitational is I think a pretty legitimate tournament. good competition, effort is there,. I’m not of the school that only 3-5 games every 2 or 4 years are the ones in which players try their hardest. If you’re an athlete, a good one, you can’t help but put 100% effort into most if not all your games – especially in rare ones when you face the mighty USA.The teams try hard in that tournament. To think that athletes are going 80% 95% of the time is ludicrous and an insult to them as elite athletes and their integrity. Watching the games would be a way to get a feel for Pinto, and others, as players, if you have any interest in doing so.

            If nothing but the World Cup matters at youth levels can we then similarly, at the college level, completely discount and dismiss and ignore all regular season action and just watch The College Cup? That would be the equivalent. 95% of what you see means absolutely nothing. I hate that viewpoint. Not sure if you’re putting it forth or not.

            That said, I totally agree with you about “player selection”. And I’ve said that many times here. They should be more flexible, more inclusive, less protective of their previous picks. Not knowing the competing individuals in the pool who aren’t getting chosen I can’t provide specifics about who is getting ignored and make a case for them, individually. I just have to take the word of people like you and #1Fan about there purportedly being great players out there who are getting passed over repeatedly.

          • rkmid71

            I’m not saying the friendlies are worthless, especially against the likes of Japan, China, Germany, France, Brazil, England, etc Much better than Haiti, Thailand and others. But I would put more weight on the WC games as a true measure. Presumably all teams are at full optimum strength for WC (have all available players) and are all in to win the game. The friendlies are about testing players, formations, tactics, etc. So not as easy to judge relative strength. Though obviously trying their best to win, some countries don’t have as much vested in winning every friendly. The larger goal is the process or step of preparing for next big event/tournament. It’s easier for other countries that aren’t expected to win every match. And I have no doubt all the players are giving 110% in such matches.

          • #1Fan

            Great point. I think the other teams use these games in the way you described – as training for the big event. I feel the US goes all out to win them and then uses it as if its meaningful. Same for SBC to be honest.

            Japan undressed the US in Jordan, dont let the final score fool you.

          • Breakers fan

            Is the idea that these other countries – Japan in particular (and I totally agree with your evaluation of our game against them in the most recent U17 WC) are engaged in what amounts to espionage — intentional deception, mind-games, ruses, plotting, calculation, lying-in-wait, so that when the USA beats Japan in U17s as we have done several times in the last couple years, they really actually in effect tried to lose, did NOT try their hardest because they want us to get overconfident to a point where they gain a mental advantage for 1 game every 2 years? That when we beat them it doesn’t speak well about us at all, really, but it is just something that happens when you have an exceptionally shrewd opponent who knows how to fool you into thinking you’re better than you really are? Maybe they really are doing that, who knows? It sounds kind of ridiculous though.

            That said, I have to acknowledge that in the pre-WC match against them and in the actual WC they did own us. Still, I think we’re not maybe (I really haven’t seen our team enough, and that’s a reason I want to see these upcoming NTC games) as behind/poor as we are sometimes portrayed to be. Or I’m just overly optimistic as a fan. I don’t know.

            if you could make a starting lineup for our U17 team – and I’m not asking you do that unless you want to — how many overlapping starters do you think you would have in relation to the players who do start for that team?

          • rkmid71

            I’ve always thought Japan plays very smart. They play to their strengths and understand their weaknesses. Of course Japan uses mind games. Why wouldn’t they or anybody? Isn’t that what Pia did in OG?

            “Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak” ~ Sun Tzu

          • Breakers fan

            I love, adore watching them play. I’m just saying our U17s defeated them in the last 2 NTC tournaments. Sure, home games for us – but to how many people – maybe 500? You can either say that our wins over them mean nothing, mean a lot or some amount in between. For me it’s choice “c”. It is not “means nothing”.

          • #1Fan

            to be honest, it means nothing to them. Its a steppingstone along the way to the WC. Put another way, does beating them in the NTC mean anything given that we failed to even exit the group and finished begin Ghana? I think not .

          • Breakers fan

            My question was what does it say about OUR TEAM that we have beaten Japan a few times, just like they have beaten us a few times in the last 2 years? Not any team can *ever* beat Japan. I would say most can for all intents and purposes never beat them. I am simply saying it speaks well of our team that we were able to be on the same field as them and defeat them two years in a row in this tournament, that that fact does not mean nothing. I would want to check, however, their players used in that tourney vs. who they used in the World Cup to see how similar they are. I just don’t think we’re as “lost” as a lot of people say we are. What do you think?

            I like what you said about “starters” and how it differs for us vs. Japan. I like the way you look at it, how you would approach it. I agree, but as it stands starting for us does seem to be important, as those are the players who by and large you will see. That can change though.

          • #1Fan

            I dont think it matters personally. The only games that really count at YNT level results wise are the WCs. Its like caring about the fact that the US men beat Gernany in a friendly. Who acres?

            I will throw this out there e as well. On Intl tours the US sometimes play teams of older kids. these games are never reported and i dont think caps are given out. I can tell you that the games are often FAR MORE CHALLENGING for the US than most of internationals. Imagine playing a combined WSL development team made up of women from 16-20 ( as an example) that team will probably be stronger that the Eng U17 team. Games like that you never read about. but you do read about some kid smashing 6 pasty some over matched CONCACAF team 🙂 and reputations are built on that.

          • Breakers fan

            The int’l secret games are cool – and interesting. Thanks for that.

            I think we just fundamentally take a different view of friendlies vs. good opponents. If the players are giving 100%, as I think they are on both sides, the games reveal things about players and teams. The big tournaments of course are way more “important” but it’s the same sport being played by the same players who are playing basically at the same level of effort. And you have said yourself that, you know that a team can lose a game in a tournament like the World Cup and pretty much dominate the other team. If that happens do we say that our team is horrible and the other team great because they beat us? Teams get to the World Cup by playing other games, by a process that involves playing soccer at intervals. I look at the intervals and assign significance to what happens in them, mostly when good opponents are involved, but even in the other games execution is required. If a player is playing horribly that should be noted. It shouldn’t mean nothing. She should be replaced,. and vice versa. You and others are free to only consider a few games every 3,4 years. Logically, if you feel that way shouldn’t you tune out for 3, 4 years and then just watch the WC and OG matches? Why waste all that time with utter meaninglessness?

          • #1Fan

            if you look at mens International soccer, thats exactly what happens. people tune out. Go to Italy, or France or England and ask a fan if he cares about the NT until the Euros or the Wc comes around. He cares not one but whether they lose all the games as long as his team is ready to go come tourney time. In fact for many in those countries Club soccer is far more important. This is the huge difference here. In the USA Club soccer is largely irrelevant. That mentality makes people look at every Intl game as a measuring stick for how the team is doing BUT based almost solely on the result.

            Also, i did not say the game should not be entertaining or interesting to watch. Im saying the RESULT is meaningless. Its ironic that the US who seem to care about results of ALL the games are now pulling kids into the full NT IN SPIT E OF results.

            Its a subtle but real difference. A scrimmage can be entertaining and fun to watch but the result counts for zero.

          • Breakers fan

            I figured that was true about Europe. To each his own – that tradition is entrenched. The men’s club leagues in another stratosphere from the NWSL for most people, not me, but for most.I don’t really care about results either that much, it’s the play that DOES have meaning, Friendlies included. I would like a win, especially for my club team – whose games I watch all of – but what interests me the most is, as you say, the play. That said, fairly often the result is based on the play. Do you watch any USWNT friendlies? The SBC? Thinking you may not…?

          • #1Fan

            Actually, I do watch them but i am not emotionally invested in them

          • Breakers fan

            That’s fine – it’s consistent with your pov, and I respect that.

          • Steglitz49

            #1 Fan is wrong. He not seldom is. You would do well in and profit from having a more varied diet of WoSo.

          • Steglitz49

            Not true. In WoSo the Europeans value, love and cherish their NTs.

          • #1Fan

            The game s are not secret. but what im,, saying is lets say a kid plays her tail off in a game like that. Who knows about it? All you read about iare the International games. Which are often a cake walk.

          • Breakers fan

            Point taken. Hopefully her coaches reward that performance but we’d never know, unless a lineup change occurred after such a game and we later heard it was because of that player’s play in the unpublicized game.

          • Steglitz49

            Pia did not use mind games except when she read the USWNT the riot act when she took charge.

            In Brasilia the USWNT totally underestimated the Swedes. They saw them as headless chickens ripe for the plucking, claiming victory before the event.

            Well. Guess what? The turnips, instead of submissively putting their tails into the air, fought back. The worm turned.

          • rkmid71

            “Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance”

            “Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.”

          • Steglitz49

            Japan has no choice but to play smart. When on average you give away about 4″ and 20 lb per player to the opposition, you can’t afford to many unforced errors.

          • Breakers fan

            Thank you. I figured that as an athlete yourself you would know that the players are giving their all. The bottom line is that if you want to “get to know Brianna Pinto” (or any other current U17 player) there is a way to do it – 6 games on youtube. I’m watching the game vs England from last year right now. Seeing some Pinto touches, seeing other players- it’s fun.

            No matter how the games are “used”, and I’m sure you’re right to some extent in your belief, once the whistle sounds and the ball begins to move *you are going to see the players from those countries play*. Kids don’t alter their play based on some cerebral notion their coach may have in mind about “how I’m going to use this game”. They play soccer and we can see what happened.

          • #1Fan

            agreed, but the coaches try different players, different combinations and different tactics/formations. If you noticed, Jpn rotated a lot , even at the WC. In the US we have an obsession with “starter” . If you dont strart a game, people think its a demotion. To me at YNT level, EVERYONE should start . I want to see how they cope with different situations. the YNT staff rarely do this in International games. Its the same people over and over.

            I feel other countries build to peak at major events. The USA has kids in every camp for 2 years then leaves them at home 🙂

          • HOFCToDi

            Good luck at the Senior level without a pay to play model. At the Senior level, the Senior USWNT will face approximately 14 to 16 worthy opponents. The rest of the opponents should be assigned to the U-23 USWNT.

          • rkmid71

            I don’t know why both the USWNT and YNTs aren’t much more proactive seeking tougher competition besides just the top national teams (college select teams, NWSL Euro clubs, Japanese clubs, etc). Really play all kinds of different teams. It would really become much more obvious which players can play and which can’t. Maybe it’s about what generates revenue and pays those salaries. It seems to me by USWNT playing all these weak opponents, we’re mainly just helping other teams get better, not ourselves.

          • HOFCToDi

            Why?

            The USWNT has not played a road international women’s friendly in two years. The other federations are most likely fed up having to travel to the USA to schedule a match with the USWNT.

          • HOFCToDi

            Funny how the CSA can afford to send the Canada women’s national football team to Sweden yet the USSF can’t afford to send the US women’s national football team overseas.

          • guest

            I can’t find anything except a u15 (03) camp at the NTC starting this week. it usually is in February I think so I don’t know what’s up. I haven’t heard about any coaching changes for this new cycle…

          • Breakers fan

            Yeah, sorry about that. I misread a google entry and even a US soccer website one. I think I got the 17 in U17 mixed up with the year 2017, when really it was referring to 2016. Not sure why they aren’t having the tournament this year. Maybe too soon after the WC is my best guess. Hopefully next year it will return. I personally didn’t see the 2016 games so I plan to watch those, even though I know the results.

        • #1Fan

          No to all of those. more of a B2B type player. She playyed vs Ghana at the U17 wc. A fast physical team

          http://www.fifa.com/u17womensworldcup/matches/round=275896/match=300357977/index.html#nosticky

          there are the stats..we were man handled by a team that just bypassed midfield.

          • rkmid71

            For those that don’t open the link. Ghana total shots 24, USA 10, Ghana SOG 10, USA 5. USA has slightly more possession, but obviously wasn’t as productive with the possession. I just don’t think the priority should be a B2B midfielder. We have plenty of options there. I want an Henry type. I don’t even think JE cares about that finding someone like that. And midfielders that can control the game and work together and complement each other and optimize our forwards, a real US strength. CMs capable of scoring goals when the opportunity presents itself, but it’s secondary to their main job.

          • Breakers fan

            I’ll throw 3 new names out there for players I would like to have seen given a shot in this camp (I already named Kristie Mewis) : first, Catrina Atanda. 2nd Morgan Andrews; 3rd Kayla Mills. I’m sure there are others. No way is Pinto ahead of those 3 now, I don’t think……my research is just beginning with her. But no doubt Ellis may agree with that, but she would probably say that she is looking long-term and that she is just very enthused about Pinto, which I don’t dismiss either.

          • BarcaSiempre

            And how about a super fast tough defender like Emily Menges.

          • Breakers fan

            I see Portland so rarely that unfortunately I’m unable to comment intelligently and confidently about Menges, But I keep hearing great things about her. I was focusing on midfield here just because that is what Pinto plays but I like hearing about bad omissions at all positions. Would LOVE to have been able to see Menges over Krieger, say, or Klingenberg, for the SBC. No such luck for us.

          • BarcaSiempre

            Emily M is super fast and I would argue the Thorns best defender, and that is with all due respect to Sonnet, who I think deserves to be a selection. She is the fastest player on a team that has had some speedsters (like Morgan) and at least in 2015 and 16 is rarely beaten. Plus MVP last year on a team full of of Galcaticos. Her weak point maybe, from JE’s perspective, is she is not an offensive threat. But she seems to win every ball near her and I do not remember her ever getting a yellow card because she is never behind.

          • Breakers fan

            I like that kind of player a lot. How are her passing skills?

          • BarcaSiempre

            Emily’s passing skills are good,better than JJ. However, on a team with Henry, Horan, Klingenberg, Long and Heath in front of her, naturally it is mostly short passes. I have never seen her just bang it up the field to nobody like some defenders. Passing is an area where Sonnet is better and Emily S will take it all the way up the field, she is surprisingly good with the ball at her feet, she can be B2B, whereas Menges is more a pure defender. The Thorns are really lucky because Katherine Reynolds is a very steady defender and Kling is a great passer and creates havoc on the offensive side of the field.

          • #1Fan

            Not sure that works under the rolled over CBA . they are now pros …

          • Breakers fan

            Ouch. Really? They would run up against a numbers game that would block them? That should change, if so, in the new CBA, but players like this aren’t represented in the talks. You just hope that the new team – Press I could see being open-minded and generous, hopefully the other 2 also, are thinking of everyone here and not just themselves and the current other players who have an “in” during these negotiations.

          • HOFCToDi

            The current CBA is outdated. The current CBA breeds greed and entitlement amongst the current USWNTPA members. The country club mentality persists to this day from the time Rampone, Wambach, Boxx ran the USWNTPA. More than thirty years since the inception of the USWNT, yet the pay to play model is still not in effect.

          • Steglitz49

            Henry like in Amandine?

          • rkmid71

            Yes. You thought I meant Thierry? I doubt Alex will win the Lion d’Or, but you never know.

          • Steglitz49

            Henry VIII

          • rkmid71

            Now that guy was on the fast track. He was named Constable of Dover Castle at 2 yrs old, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland at 3 yrs, At 4 yrs old, he was named to the Order of the Garter, only below the VC and GC in prestige. In his prime, I understand he is considered one most charismatic rulers. It didn’t end well though.

          • Steglitz49

            He died in his bed. It was his younger daughter Elizabeth who had the true talent. At 25 she took over a country riven with strife and at the brink of civil war. When she died she had made England the most powerful nation on earth.

            Divorced, beheaded, died;
            Divorced, beheaded, survived.

            You may be thinking of the masters of the English Reformation: Latimer, Ridley, Cranmer, Bilney and Tyndale.

    • James

      Is it possible Ellis doesn’t like Ohai? Personality clash? Attitude? Just a thought. It took her forever to get called up and only played in three games.

  • Paul Klee

    Is the pre she believes camp going to be in North Carolina. If so the inclusion of Brianna Pinto a bit more understandable.

    • guest

      pre SBC training camp is in Orlando
      from us soccer roster announcement
      “The U.S. team will convene in Orlando, Florida on Feb. 20 for a week of training before heading to Philadelphia to kick off the 2nd annual edition of the tournament on Wednesday, March 1 at Talen Energy Stadium. England will open against France in Chester, Pa. (4 p.m. ET) followed by the USA against Germany (7 p.m. ET on FS1).

      All the teams will then travel to New Jersey where France will face Germany on Saturday, March 4 (2:15 p.m. ET) followed by the USA taking on England (5 p.m. ET on FOX) at Red Bull Arena in Harrison. The tournament will finish on Tuesday, March 7, at the historic RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C. as Germany takes on England (4 p.m. ET) and the USA faces France (7 p.m. ET on FS1).”

      • mockmook

        I’m cold already just thinking about those games…

  • Felix Krull

    Wow 16 on the WNT? She must be the next GOAT!

  • James

    Is it possible that maybe Jill just doesn’t like Ohai? Personality clash maybe? Her attitude? It took so long for her to be called up and only played in three games. She is just as good as other players called up in her position. Just a thought.