Heath to ESPN: “I am very happy here in the U.S.”

The Equalizer Staff December 14, 2016 469
Tobin Heath believes Portland Thorns FC are the best club in the world.

Tobin Heath believes Portland Thorns FC are the best club in the world.

In an interview on ESPN after winning U.S. Soccer Female Player of the Year, Tobin Heath said she is happy playing in NWSL.

“I love European football and the idea of playing in the Champions League is awesome, but we’ve got a great league here, NWSL, and we’re going into our fifth season. I think I’m playing for the best club in the world with the Portland Thorns and in that way I am very happy here in the U.S. I feel like I’m in an environment where I can continue to grow and and push my game.”

Heath spent time at Paris Saint-Germain in 2013 and 2014 but the French club did not qualify for the UEFA Women’s Champions League for the spring of 2013 while Heath was there. Her U.S. teammates Alex Morgan and Crystal Dunn have both been linked with moves to Europe, at least in part to participate in the Champions League.

The full interview can be seen here.

  • The Oracle

    i’d be happy playing in Portland too.

    • Lorehead

      Seems to me that a championship match between NWSL and UWCL would really get that conversation started! Although if you had the NWSL play the top ten teams in Europe, three points for a win, one for a draw, the NWSL would win by something like 20 to 10.

      • Steglitz49

        This year the final of the Champions League is June 1st. On that day we will know who is the Champion.

        Euro-17 starts on July 16 and NTs usually get about 14 days to prepare. Thus, early or mid June may be possible. If there is a will there is a way though I doubt that Europeans would be keen on incurring injuries to some of their top players so near the Euros.

        • Hood

          Hopefully there will never be the will. Men’s soccer already starts to get crazy in terms of overblow everything for the sake of money by sacrificing the health of the players. Women’s soccer shouldn’t follow

          • ARED

            Perhaps there is room in the calendar if you are greedy, but probably not for long as the game and leagues grow. And, probably only in years without the Olympics and World Cup, which is only 50%.

            Either way, I think we are a long way off from having this match/competition be possible let alone profitable.

          • Steglitz49

            The calendar is pretty crowded as it is what with the European Championship in the WC+2 years as in 2017, and the qualifications for both the Euros and World Championships. On top of that you have for the Clubs the domestic cups as well as the leagues and the Champions League.

            Had the NWSL thrown their weight behind the Japanese effort to run a World Club Champuionship for the ladies, it may have survived. Too bad.

          • ARED

            As I said, I don’t think it’s anywhere close to realistic, either in schedule and the demands on players, or in the real world of “WoSo Finances”. NWSL doesn’t have enough weight to hold themselves up yet, they cannot well afford to throw it elsewhere (unless it has tangible $$$ coming back).

          • Steglitz49

            In 2014 Arsenal (EU), Melbourne Victory (Aus), Sao Jose (Bra), Jiangsu Huatai, (China) Okayama and Urawa (Japan) contested the International Women’s Club Championship named the Nestle Cup after its sponsor.

            In 2013 it had been Chelsea (EU), Sydney (Aus), ColoColo (Chile), Beleza and Kobe (Japan), then named the Mobcast Cup.

            The inaugural International Women’s Club Championship had Lyon (EU, reigning Champions League queens), Canberra (Aus), Beleza and Kobe (Japan).

            The NWSL never bothered to send a team in spite of having played preseasons in Japan.

          • Steglitz49

            As more money flows into WoSo, the intensity will go up. The US has the advantage that the players make their real big killing by playing for the USWNT. Thus, the NT players will look after their health to collect their paychecks.

      • Hood

        Don’t think so. I think EU teams would win 70/30 if not 80/20.

        But this is all theory and speculation. I do not see any reasonable timing for those matches or even a club world cup.

        Let the NWSL be the NWSL and European leagues and UWCL like they are today.

        The problem behind the problem is that the NWSL runs only some months per year and their fans getting bored in the remainder of the year

        • ARED

          I think the top 5 European clubs perhaps would be better, and the next 5 would be worse….lol. I’d have to take more time to actually consider it, but the UWCL shows quite a lot of variance in even the later rounds. NWSL may be a more consistent level in the middle.

          • Harvey

            So Rosengard, Potsdam, Chelsea just to name some are worse (and according to Lorehead much worse) than Boston? Are you serious or did Trump already made America great again and we all didn’t realize that yet

          • ARED

            Well yes you can single out Boston, and it is difficult. But what about Houston? Ella Massar has changed Houston to Rosengard and now is a top scorer behind Marta? Interesting, no? (Should I take Slavia Praha as the level of the top European clubs?).

            My point was to say I think the top 5 might be better and the next 5 might be worse –than the average NWSL team– because in Europe the top few teams are so far above the next ones. In NWSL you have a few better and a few like Boston who are far behind, but the variance is less I believe. You don’t see scores of 8-0 and 4-1 in your Semifinal matchups.

            Are players like McLeod, Riley, Berglund,or Rafferty, Carney, and Aluko, above the average NWSL (top-11) player? Are players like Hamraoui, Thomis, or Cascarino better than Shea Groom or Morgan Brian? There are many ways to look at it, but to pick and choose one player or club here, against one over there, well, it is a bit messy and the “argument” can go both ways if you choose the “evidence” as you please.

          • Steglitz49

            Emma Berglund came on for Jessica Samuelsson just before the end of extra time in the Miracle on Grass and against Brazil. Jessica is one of the very best defenders in the game. Emma is not half bad either, though she did not play in the final.

            Ali Riley was the American that the USWNT let get away.

          • ARED

            Ali Riley is a good player who I like, but my point is that all of these players are moving and changing, and no I do not believe that McLeod is suddenly better because she is in Sweden or that Aluko is far better than Jessica McDonald because she plays for Chelsea.

            I also like Berglund and Samuelsson, and Sweden’s effort was massive. But I am not sure that putting Sonnet, Engen, Catley, or Monica into that defense would have hurt them.

            It’s funny to find myself “defending” NWSL or American players, but I am only trying to point out fair (and unfair) arguments. I think these discussions can be fun, but it seems some are really invested in winning arguments more than being fair –And it’s an un-winnable argument anyway!

          • Steglitz49

            Ali Riley has played for Rosengård since 2012. The team has changed its name from Malmö. Zlatan is Rosengård, a depressed area in Malmö, most famous child.

            Monica is Brazilian and played in OG-16 for Brazil.

            The NWSL loves Australians — no language barrier — and Brazilians — brand-name recogniion?

        • Does it matter if you have strikers that are substantially better than the goalies? The rest of the field kind melts away. Especially when you have great keepers on the other side of the field.

          • Harvey

            The NWSL is more consistent. Yes. And I think it is the strongest league in the world.

            But… The Bundesliga for example is not far behind.

            What Lorehead saying instead is, that the average NWSL team is much better than the top sides for the main EU leagues.

            And I wanted to reply to your post below…

          • Steglitz49

            The crux is that the NWSL is a tridentine league for Canadians, Mexicans and Americans, though the Mexicans may be foregiven for not believing in its equality.

            Thus, the 10 teams of NWSL must satisfy the desires of young ladies from a poulation base of 430m — 350m if you only count Canada and the US) — to play WoSo, with one Championship Final. In this system, only USWNT members earn real money.

            The Europeans have their domestic leagues and domestic cups and on top of that the Champions League. Trophies coming out of their ears for essentially the same base.

            The big difference from 8-10 years or so ago is the amount of money sloshing around in European ladies WoSo while the collapse of 2 pro-leagues in the US. Thus, money and glamor is to be found in Europe. Had the NWSL played in the Japanese Club World competition, then balance might have been possible. Now, not.

      • Harvey

        So essentially you are saying that the US players are two times better than the players of all European countries combined.

        • ARED

          No, Lorehead is saying that the US clubs -full of US, Canadian, Aussie, Japanese, and many European players -are better than the top ten of Europe. Big difference in saying a nation’s clubs vs. a nation’s players.

          (Of course due to the opposite seasons, there may be some fighting over who gets to use players who move around).

          • Harvey

            Still hybris to me. And by the way – how many top EU players are in the NWSL? Besides Henry.

            And don’t forget that that there are also Aussie and Canadian players in Europe.

            The vast majority of the NWSL players wouldn’t be in the starting 11 of an European top side. How on earth would a NWSL side then win 2 out 3 matches.

            Ridiculous. Reminds me on the comments here before the U17 WC. US with Sanchez was considered to be unbeatable.

          • Arcie Tillydee

            Most NWSL players might not be in Lyon’s starting 11, maybe PSG’s. Potsdam, Wolfsburg, Man City, Chelsea…maybe. But most NWSL _starters_ would crack the 11 in every other team in Europe (and many would do so even for the above).

          • Steglitz49

            In the Ladies Bundesliga all have played 10 games with one more round to play this weekend. The standings are:
            — Potsdam 27 pts, Wolfsburg 23, Bayern Munich 22, Essen 20 and Freiburg 20.
            — Wolfsburg just sold Ramona Bachmann to Chelsea and it is generally expected that the Shewolves will sign either Pernille Harder or Stina Blackstenius.
            — Man City just let Daphne Corboz go. There squad is pretty loaded.
            — Bayern Munich’s attack includes Rolfö, Miedema, Lotzen, Iwabuchi, Evans and Rolser — and they let Katie Stengel leave for the NWSL.

            As for other teams, do you include Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Montpellier, and the ones in germany above. By all means let them join any team they like because crossfertilization is good for WoSo.

          • ARED

            It may be, but I try to not make a difference or argument greater by overstating what the opponent has said. Lorehead thinks NWSL, you think Europeans. Ok. Too bad we will probably not see proof ever, but it doesn’t mean we have to assume the other “side” is garbage.

            I believe that there are many variables which are overlooked or would be hard to account for in a comparison. Many NWSL players would be poor in a side in Europe, but many Europeans would struggle in NWSL as well. It is just a different game, on different fields, with different rules, styles, etc. And as we know in this sport -and in fact the U17-U20 may be the perfect example -the “best” team does not always win, or at least not easily. The USA was dominated by North Korea and yet it took a lucky/bad penalty for them to score. I didn’t rate those US youth teams well, or expect them to win. But I did expect them to make the later stages anyway, because they will bring their fighting, physicality, and spirit, and in soccer that can go a very long way.

            My point was also that the players move around too much. It makes a big difference whether Vero (Heath/Henry/Press/Morgan/etc) is playing in Sweden, USA, France, Spain, or Germany for me to say how this imaginary competition would play out. (I consider players like Nadim, Dagny, and Little to be top players. You are right that most are not, but how many Americans are in Europe?).

          • Steglitz49

            In your 2nd parar you type — “on different fields, with different rules” — but this is not true for the NWSL, is it? The different rules are true for college soccer but not for the NWSL. As for field sizes, some NWSL pitches are a bit narrower than standard but not an awful lot (except that one bizarre game).

            A minitournament of KC, Seattle, DC and WNY together with Lyon, Wolfsburg, Frankfurt and PSG would no doubt be fun but there seems to be no time for such a clash. Also, teams like Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Man City and Rosengård might growl, as could Portland, Chicago, Houston and Boston maybe?

          • ARED

            I mean to say the rules of the competitions vary, whether the actual ones on the field (by letter or by referee’s interpretation), or the ones in how the leagues are run and organized. Schedules, playoffs, punishments, etc. Roster sizes, salary caps, “drafts”…lol. It’s a bit crazy to compare it too seriously, no? It’s all speculation. If they play in Kansas City or Paris, it would change everything. If they play in February or in August, it would change everything.

            I agree it’d be fun to see the matchups, but as a glorified “friendly” tournament I think it’d be hard to see it happen (no willing payers). And I would think you would consider Portland and Chicago in your top-4 NWSL clubs, no? Based on last results?

          • Steglitz49

            The 4+4 UEFA teams I listed have been in the SFs or QFs of the last couple of Champions Leagues. Thus, I had to find 8 NWSL teams, which means only dropping 2 and to Boston’s credit is that they have increased their spectator numbers.

            There is another reality. The FA is underpinning and building their brand of the FA women’s Cup, just like the men’s cup has long been established. UEFA wants the women’s Champions League to be a top brass event too. In short, neither are interested in comparisons with the NWSL just like the NWSL did not want to recognize the existance of the Japanese attempt at a Club World Championship.

          • ARED

            Well there I agree -it doesn’t really behoove any of these fledgling organizations to worry about what is for dessert when they are struggling to find ingredients for their main course. Sometimes partnerships could benefit all, but when it involves flying teams all over the world for events which may not bring in more than a meager few customers, it is not worth it.

            When did this Japenese attempt happen? Awhile ago, no?

          • Steglitz49

            The International Women’s Club Championshipwas held in 2012-2014.

            Europe was represented by Lyon in 2012 (holders of the Champions League) and then Chelsea in 2013 and Arsenal in 2014. (The cost of travel presumably came out of the coffers of these rich men’s clubs.)

          • ARED

            Right. Hosted in Japan?

          • Steglitz49

            Yes. The first 2 years it was called the Mobcast Cup and the last year the Nestle Cup after its sponsors.

          • ARED

            Nestle…that’s the name I knew it by, thanks…lol.

          • Steglitz49

            Another way of looking at it is how many top players the top teams have acquired:
            — Bayern Munich just added Fridolina Rolfö to their other forwards of Miedema, Lotzen, Iwabuchi, Evans and Rolser — and they let Katie Stengel leave for the NWSL.
            — Lyon is trying to seduce Alex Morgan to add to Ada Hegerberg, Bremer, Thomis, Le Somer and Cascarino
            — Chelsea Ladies added Ramona Bachmann and Maren Mjelde to all their squad
            — we still wait to learn where Pernille Harder and Stina Blackstenius will play? — Harder in Wolfsburg, probably; Stina?
            — and that is just attacking players

          • ARED

            Yes, but of course NWSL brings in more players after the new year usually, no? (And presumably the previous drafted players will develop into better ones?).

            I do think many of the best players are in Europe, they have the money and the travel is much nicer, and the Europeans are home. Not many of these players are making enough to live across the world unless you prefer to.

          • Steglitz49

            The Europeans are where the US was when they got Marta to leave Umeå in Sweden and go and play for LASol, where she was joined by Miyama and a whole slew of European and Japanese players.

            Now the pendulum is with the Old Continent and given the money those men’s teams can wield, it likely will stay there for a while.

            Your point about short travel within Europe compared to within the US and certainly across the Pond is well taken.

          • ARED

            Yes, I mean it is obvious really. Why should a European want to leave more money, living close to home, and a culture they know, for (usually) less money and a long trip home as well as each week for your game, unless: they want to!

            Some will, but probably for shorter stays and sometimes it seems NWSL can find some money to attract the big stars. But NWSL is trying to have equal competition and financial stability, while Europe is happily not too worried about either.

          • Steglitz49

            The salary cap, which I think is a great idea, and the cap on foreign players, means that the foreign players that come to the NWSL do so for a variety of reasons. Some are very good indeed.

            The NWSL provides admirable training facilities for the Australian WNT. Maybe the NWSL should put more effort into helping Mexico grow their WoSo?

          • ARED

            Ha, well some might argue that NWSL arleady has done a lot by creating itself and offering Mexico a legacy position in the league. Unfortunately it wasn’t really a good enough fit at that time, but I have hoped for CONCACAF’s sake that perhaps we will see a bit of blending in the future. There are good CONCACAF players, but Central and Island players may be better suited to the style in Europe than trying to match speed and power with the Americans and Canadians. Rodriguez’s career will be fun to watch, as with a few other Ticas and Mexicans.

          • Steglitz49

            The NWSL has 3 cofounders if no coowners, to wit Mexico, Canada and USA.

        • Lorehead

          The NWSL has a salary cap, and Europe doesn’t, so the bottom half of the NWSL table would sweep. There are plenty of Europeans in the NWSL.

          • Steglitz49

            Plenty is an exaggeration because the number of non-American players are capped.

      • Antoni

        One funny observation

        Everytime a player or user mentions the UWCL as something great or something she would like to participate on or win, US users here start to pick on it immediately. This seems to be an US user reflex when something outside the US is described as good, nice or important

        It seems that per definition everthing what is great has to be American or Americans need to be involved in it. If that is not the case it can’t be good, important or nice.

        If this is understood nobody will wonder why someone like Trump have been able to win the election with very plain slogans. Just tell Americans that they are great or will be great again…

        I am already looking forward on the next articles about the UWCL here on Equalizersoccer. It will be fun !!

        • mockmook

          “If this is understood nobody will wonder why someone like Trump have been able to win the election with very plain slogans.”

          Yes, yes.

          We’re too stupid to vote for the candidate who violated every form of security with her e-mails.

          Too stupid to vote for a candidate who promised to continue to cripple our economy.

          Too stupid to vote for the candidate who was directly responsible for getting our Ambassador to Libya killed.

          Etc.

          • CED

            You’re a rightwing clown. Idiots like you voted for a certified pathological liar, conman, bragger on how he can sexual assault women, etc…The list on how he’s a charlatan and certifiable despicable human is too long.

          • Steglitz49

            You are back in character Droll, Chief Executive of Trolls.

            Lorehead labels Antoni a troll. You seem to fit Lorehead’s definition to a tee. Tea for two? Tihi!

          • CED

            You’re back to being stupid a usual and stalking. You’re here to get embarrassed once again spouting on about things you nothing about. How pathetic is your life you have to be obsessed with another countries’ NT?

          • Steglitz49

            As you will note, I have lauded and magnified some of your comments and even defended you, in spite of recognizing the troll in you.

            Mockmook has done brilliant service for us with his various Mock Drafts. They have been both illuminating and fun to follow and contribute to, just ask Breakers Fan.

            What saddens me is how few of the low-life bottom-feeders are willing to defend the young ladies against personal attacks, snide comments and slurs. Instead, they are the worst culprits.

          • mockmook

            YOU’RE A LEFTWING IDIOT — what a great conversation this has been.

          • Steglitz49

            Calm down! You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

        • Steglitz49

          You could turn it around and look at it from a different angle. Because of the mega money in their domestic sports of NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL, that is where the big pay-check is and by extension, those championships are seen as the apeices of the respictve sport, like the Stanley Cup or world Series.

          At one time WoSo looked like going the same way. Just look at the players in the American pro-leagues, not just Marta and Miyama but a whole slew of foreign players. The not just one but a second league crashed and players came back to Europe with their tails between their legs and their hair singed all over.

          At the same time, the men’s clubs and the FAs in Europe, for many and various reasons, started to open their wallets, and pro-WoSo has not looked back. Instead, today there is parity and tomorrow, who knows?

          To return to Tobin Heath, she played for PSG during the first half of the first NWSL seasons as did Pinoe for Lyon. A number of US college seniors have spent a year or two in various European leagues. It is a new world.

        • Lorehead

          Go away, troll.

          • Antoni

            The truth hurts?

          • Steglitz49

            S/he can be annoying but is s/he a troll in the usual meaning of the noun?

          • Lorehead

            Yes.

        • guest

          Taco Town USA! What’s not great about that?

    • Ethan

      Maybe, but the Club World Cup is not regarded all that highly by men’s football fans. The Champions League is a year round competition that has match ups with two legs for every knockout round before the final. The Club World Cup is a couple of “glorified friendly” (using the words of some posters here) matches.

      • Steglitz49

        Quite apart from the practicalities, I suspect that UEFA may be keen on protecting their brand. If WoSo continues to develop as it has, UEFA will soon control club pro-WoSo simply because of the money.

    • Steglitz49

      The Japanese tried for 3 years to run a Club World Cup. The NWSL never sent a team.

      In the first, Lyon holders of the Champions League, went from Europeand won. The next two years it was Chelsea and Arsenal Ladies who went to play. Yael Averbuch played for the Gunners.

  • Som Termanni

    Meanwhile, WVU striker/’18 draft prospect Michaela Abam already would rather play abroad than in the NWSL: https://www.vavel.com/en-us/nwsl/732700-vavel-usa-exclusive-west-virginia-attacking-threat-michaela-abam-fired-up-for-next-season.html

    “It’d be cool to play here in the states as well, especially because [of the] growth,” she told VAVEL USA. “but I’ve always wanted to go abroad and experience the whole out of the US atmosphere with women’s soccer and everything like that.”

    • Steglitz49

      Any idea of where she is planning to go and play? Any specific club or country?

    • Probably because she can get much more money, for much less talent overseas. When she commands endorsement money we can talk.

  • Lorehead

    Glad to hear her represent the NWSL, the Thorns and America on ESPN. (She had a different perspective, of course, when the NWSL was just starting and she was under contract with PSG.)

    • Well seeing as she is a massive percentage of the Thorns team… You take her out of the picture, and the Thorns never win another championship (without a massive rebuild, or Brian taking her spot).

      Although I very much see your point, she is at least close to right. Although a rebuilt Flash team has the championship, and WNY should only get better.

      • mockmook

        I can’t see the Thorns falling apart if Heath departed — their roster is stacked.

        Plus, you would be able to get a very decent left wing player in the draft (Vasconcelos?)

        And, the team will have a lot of continuity (as it stands) from last year. Even with Heath gone, they would have an excellent chance to win the Championship.

        • DNG

          I agree that they’d be fine and still win a lot of games. I don’t agree that it’d be so easy to replace her in the draft. Recently drafted wings haven’t really impressed me much. They would probably have to adjust how they currently play a little

      • Lorehead

        She’s a huge contributor to the Thorns indeed! I didn’t mean that harshly at all. The situation has changed a lot since 2013, so have the circumstances of her life, and her opinion has changed, too.

      • DNG

        I think the Thorns would still be good without Heath similar to how they were still good while Sinclair was injured at the start of last season. She would undoubtedly be a difficult player to replace though.

    • DNG

      After two failed leagues and all of the surrounding issues associated with them I forgive Tobin any initial misgivings about the NWSL. It sounds like she’s very happy to be a Thorn now.

      • CED

        Actual Interpretation of Heath….She’s very happy about the sweetheart deal WNT has with USSF. They get paid to play a ton of useless friendlies vs tomato cans and miss 40 to 50% of the league games.

        • DNG

          Really. You’re going to use her statement to bring this topic here? Not only is it not relevant but you have zero evidence to support your assertion as it relates to Heath specifically or any other individual for that matter.

          • CED

            Sorry the truth hurts. They play tomato cans most of the time in useless friendlies b/c they think a National Team is club team. The WNT rightfully think the league is a joke and treat it that way. What pro player skips a league semi final for a wedding? One’s that have no respect for their league. They miss months of the season to prep for a Wcup or OG…The league is essentially a joke b/c the teams don’t actually pay the NT players and thus have no control of their release.

          • Steglitz49

            All fair comments.

            The tomato-cans are a bit inevitable, though, are they not? Only a couple of NTs can truly challenge the USWNT after all.

            Therefore, I would turn it around and present it that the USWNT does a public service. They help these lesser teams to grow and develop. The fact that the USWNT members are (too) generously rewarded for this work, is another issue.

          • CED

            They do zero public service to lesser teams. They are about themselves only and the last year’s delusional demands and nonsense on the CBA prove that.

          • Steglitz49

            I agree with your second sentence.

            Being a sort of charitable person and it is the season of goodwill towards all wo/men, I must stick to my whimsey and disagree with your first sentence.

            As far as I know, Tobin has not dropped her kit for personal gain yet, which must be counted her for merit. Whatever persuaded Christen to go down that route to perdition, I can’t imagine.

          • USMNTfan4life

            Were you able to see that puff piece on 60 Minutes, where Lloyd said that she was part of the greatest women’s team of all time (neglecting to mention Pat Summit’s Vol teams, or the women’s Olympic basbetball teams, etc). That was not a good idea, because it made them look very arrogant and entitled. Carli Lloyd has no personality. Colder than ice. Lacks warmth.

          • HOFCToDi

            Sports TV Ratings for Sunday, 13 November 2016

            sportstvratings.com/nfl-countdown-nfl-insiders-sportscenter-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-sunday-november-13-2016/6840/

            USWNT, FS1 – 145,000 viewers

            Sports TV Ratings for Thursday, 10 November 2016

            sportstvratings.com/browns-ravens-bulls-heat-north-carolina-duke-football-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-thursday-november-10-2016/6819/

            USWNT, ESPN2 – 212,000 viewers

            Sports TV Ratings for Sunday, 23 October 2016

            sportstvratings.com/giants-rams-in-london-nascar-sprint-cup-talladega-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-sunday-october-23-2016/6565/

            USWNT, FS1 – 149,000 viewers

            Sports TV Ratings for Wednesday, 19 October 2016

            sportstvratings.com/cubs-dodgers-indians-blue-jays-warriors-preseason-game-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-wednesday-october-19-2016/6508/

            USWNT, ESPN2 – 169,000 viewers

            Sports TV Ratings for Sunday, 18 September 2016

            sportstvratings.com/nascar-sprint-cup-chicagoland-nfl-countdown-yankees-red-sox-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-sunday-september-18-2016/5871/

            USWNT, FS1 – 243,000 viewers

            Sports TV Ratings for Thursday, 15 September 2016

            sportstvratings.com/jets-bills-houston-cincinnati-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-thursday-september-15-2016/5843/

            USWNT, ESPN2 – 266,000 viewers

          • USMNTfan4life

            What is this in response to? Sorry, I may be lost in terms of the reference.

          • HOFCToDi

            “The Greatest Team of All Time” would not post anemic television ratings.

            Home Matches (Sep, Oct, Nov)
            Sports TV Ratings
            USWNT – 1,184,000 viewers (6 matches)
            USMNT – 2,366,000 viewers (3 matches)

          • rkmid71

            Don’t forget the UConn women B-ball and Coach Auriemma. 84 game winning streak and counting — and that’s with Notre Dame, Tennessee, Stanford and many other nipping at their heels. UConn has 3 of the longest winning streak in college bball history men or women — 90, 84 (and counting) and 70. UCLA men under Wooden had 88. I know I’m watching. But you’re right, Summit was a competitive beast. I’m not sure UConn would be who they are without her.

          • HOFCToDi

            US Women’s National Basketball Team
            Summer Olympic Games
            Gold Medal – 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, 2016

            nbcolympics.com/video/diana-taurasi-team-usas-gold-bigger-just-medal

            “There was something else we wanted to get across ………..”

          • rkmid71

            Taurasi: “USA bleeds basketball. This is probably the best team sport that you can play. It’s not about one player, one coach. It’s about how do we make this the best basketball team ever.” It’s music to my ears. Now I just wish the USWNT would listen.

          • HOFCToDi

            Reading between the lines, Taurasi was taking a pot shot at the USWNT without calling out them by name.

          • HOFCToDi

            The egotism was passed down from the former leaders of the USWNTPA:

            President – Rampone
            Vice President – Wambach
            Treasurer – Boxx

            It’s time for the USSF to “bust the union”.

          • Steglitz49

            Yes and no. The US dominates ladies basket but not WoSo.

            At least Germany, Sweden, England, France, Japan, Norway and Brazil can give the USWNT decent soccer games and a few others are getting there.

          • rkmid71

            USWNT is capable of being much more dominant than they are. What I see is poor leadership at USSF, individual player entitlement and narcissism enabled by USSF leadership and coaches,subpar coaching, politics trumping the game itself. Compare that to USA Basketball. It’s no accident the US dominates basketball, not least because it was invented here..I’m sure USSF and the USWNT have lots of excuses and have become quite skilled at rationalizing — it’s in their self interest..

            In basketball, we have coaches like Summit, Auriemma, Stringer, McGraw, VanDeveer, Yow, Staley, etc. Leaders like Colangelo. On the men’s b-ball side, Popovich is taking over Krzyzewski. Do you think those coaches have any problem managing player egos? Can you imagine those coaches building a roster like what JE and USSF did in 2015 WWC and 2016 OG?

            And yet compared to their competition, the USWNT is probably the highest paid, best trained, best resourced team in the world. And the US has by far the biggest pool of players and the benefits of Title IX and women having a platform to showcase their skills through their college years What other country has that? I expect more.

            USA Basketball is No. 1 in all five of FIBA’s world-ranking categories: men’s, women’s, combined, boys and girls. USA teams are the current champions in men’s and women’s Olympics; men’s FIBA World Cup and women’s FIBA World Championship; men’s and women’s FIBA U19 World Championships; men’s FIBA U17 World Championship; men’s and women’s FIBA Americas U18 Championships; men’s FIBA Americas U16 Championship; men’s Nike Hoop Summit; and women’s World University Games.

          • Steglitz49

            The US does not put much effort into handball but it is a big sport in Europe and some other countries, most notably Brazil. Women handball players can earn decent money as professionals.

            The development of WoSo proceded in a more balanced way on either side of the Pond. Pia Sundhage (56 yrs) scored the first goal by a woman at Wembley and Carolina Morace (52 yrs) followed up with 4 goals the year after. A big leap forward in WoSo was the arrival of the Golden Generation (2010-15).

            As in men’s soccer, NTs with as small populations as the NL, Belgium, Wales and Iceland, can give the giants a run for their money, so in WoSo Norway and Sweden are not to be sneezed at. Euro-17 will give us the new pecking-order, like Euro-13 did.

          • CED

            Apples to oranges. Bball is a sport ingrained in the US for a a century. Soccer is an import that is just really having it’s first generation of those seeing soccer have a league all their lives. If you look at US soccer demographics it skews heavily to younger people. blue states and political liberal.

          • Steglitz49

            Indeed. Soccer, and these days even WoSo, belongs to the world. It is one of the (few) sports where the US domestic league does not dominate.

            In spite of the USWNT unparalleled success on the soccer fields of the world, the US mainstream do not give a fig.

            I wonder, if you made one of those suspects parades of Carli, Alex, Lindsey Vonn, Mikaela Schiffrin and Jessica Diggins — would anyone of the great unwashed recognize any of them?

          • rkmid71

            That standard is a bit unfair. As an unwashed, I’m not good at recognizing celebs. I know some are. Though I did recognize Salma Hayek in the BA lounge in London years ago. And George Muresan in a Starbucks (though he’s 7’7″ 325 lbs). And Meryl Streep lived across the street in NYC when I lived there.

          • Steglitz49

            Fair enough!

          • rkmid71

            I’m not sure I buy the blue states and liberal. I buy younger people. I pointed out elsewhere, the top 4 colleges for WoSo avg attendance per game were BYU, Texas A&M, South Carolina, Kansas State — all red states. #5 was Portland which is blue, 7 of top 10 were basically red. The south loves women’s soccer. It’s not all in California like people seem to think.

          • CED

            You do realize that just b/c a state is red there are a lot of liberals/democrats in them. Studies show they are twice as likely to be soccer fans. Ie..Repubs win Tx by 9pts in 2016 but 3.8M Texans voted for Clinton. There have been studies on it and articles by papers like WSJ an NYT with data.

            T

          • CED

            You do realize that just b/c a state is red there are a lot of liberals/democrats in them. Studies show they are twice as likely to be soccer fans. Ie..Repubs win Tx by 9pts in 2016 but 3.8M Texans voted for Clinton. There have been studies on it and articles by papers like WSJ an NYT with data.

          • rkmid71

            ok … makes sense and reminded me of Churchill quote “f you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain.”

          • Steglitz49

            Hear hear!

          • HOFCToDi

            The entitlement and narcissism was established by the USWNTPA not the USSF:

            USWNTPA
            President – Rampone
            Vice President – Wambach
            Treasurer – Boxx

            Self-preservation
            Self-adulation

            #PaytoPlay

          • CED

            US Bball is a real NT. They have real jobs and are paid by their actual clubs, WNBA and International. In fact, they don’t get paid by USA Bball Fed. They just set them up with ridiculously good accommodations during events, cover expenses for them and their family, etc…

          • Steglitz49

            As it should be.

          • CED

            TN is nipping at nobody. The program has fallen apart with Summit.

          • rkmid71

            Ok…. remove TN and insert South Carolina. I was kind of talking historically. Summit is tough to replace. But I suspect they’ll get it back. I understand she used to chew out the TN men’s team for not working hard enough. I wonder how long UConn can sustain this level of excellence — the day to day.intensity over such a long period. At some point, you wonder whether Auriemma’s fire in the belly diminishes just a little. Haven’t seen any let up yet though. He’s got 964 wins vs. Summit at 1,098. But he leads with 11 NCAA titles (Summit had 8). 7 time Naismith Coach of Year (Summit had 7). Hall of Famer. Heck he passed Wooden (who had 10).

            Not sure what to think of Dorrance at 21 NCAA titles, though “only” 3 in last 10 years.

          • Steglitz49

            We lived in CT when the lady Huskies got going! I still have my Jonathan Husky baseball cap to prove it. There were even chips to buy in the supermarkets.

            As for TN, I have not followed them but I am not surprised that it may take time to fill the void of Pat Summit.

          • rkmid71

            I hope you kept your hat in good condition — it might become a collector’s item. South Carolina women’s b-ball team averaged 14,364 fans per game last season (about on par with the 15th highest in men’s b-ball). UConn was 8,920. Top men’s was Kentucky at 23,361.

            In WoSo, BYU had highest avg. of 2,957 (70% capacity utilization). Texas A&M was 2nd (80%)and South Carolina 3rd.(47%). Kansas State was 4th, but had 107% capacity utilization!

            I think my point is that people enjoy watching women’s team sports (including me). I suppose it’s partly the conference rivalries, competitiveness of team and pride it brings to school, etc. Need to find a better way to translate to NWSL The highest paid players not showing up or showing when they want doesn’t help.

          • HOFCToDi

            Abby Wambach blowing off the 2015 NWSL Season is proof that the USWNTPA members could care less about the NWSL. So much for promotion of the domestic league.

          • DNG

            What truth are you providing? You are making an assumption about a specific player with no proof in relation that player. I’m done wasting my time responding to your vendetta.

          • Steglitz49

            His pointa add value. They are tough but on the money.

          • Steglitz49

            You forget that CED stands for Droll, Chief Executive of trolls.

            At the same time CED’s point is well taken, that the USWNT members get money for old rope. Even so some of them are not beyond dropping their kit for the cameras for personal gain.

          • CED

            You do realize how stupid your “dropping your kit comment” is? Athletes who make more in one game(pro rate their salary) than NT make in a yr, have done the Body Issue.

          • Steglitz49

            Not all female athletes drop their kit for personal gain. Some have declined and then seen their ratings go through the roof.

            To each their own but someone ought to remind them that in the cabaret acts of the 30s, the nudes were at the bottom of the pile and once a nude always a nude.

          • CED

            OMG you’re delusional. Go look up the list of people that have done the body issue. Top female athletes like Serena Williams, she’ 1 of the wealthiest female athletes in history. Doing the issue did not hurt her “ratings” as you put it. She’s the biggest draw in female tennis and ha been for almost a decade. Venus also did it and is also very wealthy and popular. Diana Turasi is astronomically popular and she did it. The list is endless. You’re puritan view is literally 1950’s. Doing the body issue does not effect popularity negatively.

          • Steglitz49

            One could advance the theory that the number of kit-drops may have been the deciding factor in Brasilia.

            At least Alex was not only cheeky in her bodypaint but followed up with one of the great goals in US WoSo’s history.

          • CED

            Only a delusional person would advance your theory.

          • rkmid71

            Maybe S49 is talking in metaphors about “the Emperor has no clothes”? His main theory is that USWNT underestimated the Swedes.after they got crushed by Brazil 5-0 in group stage.

            In contrast, Morgan backed up her bodypaint stunt with one of the most memorable years in 2012 of any USWNT player ever. 28 goals and 21 assists.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you. In a nutshell, more or less. Are you a spin-doctor by any chance?

          • rkmid71

            Not a chance. I’m no good at spin and I’m not a doctor. I could not have explained 8-1 in 1981.

          • Steglitz49

            Then you are not a Canadian or only one with PTA.

            What is left to look forward to_ The Draft in January, though Mockmook seems to have covered that pretty thoroughly.

        • Steglitz49

          I would turn it around and look at Tobin from another angle. She has won the World Cup and played in a losing final. She has 2 Olympic golds to her name. She won the inaugural NWSL Championship for Portland with her monster freekick.

          What other notches does this young lady need on her stick? Winning the Champions League? Go and help a middling team in Europe or Japan be great?

        • USMNTfan4life

          That is it in a nutshell. I don’t understand why people would pay to see the WNT play the Thailand, Romania, or some other useless women’s teams. It is hard enough for the MNT to draw a decent crown against a Honduras or El Savador (WCQ), so I don’t understand the desire to see the WNT defeat Orange Cones on a regular basis.

          • Steglitz49

            Nobody ever went broke by underestimating the poor taste of the general public.

          • DNG

            The attraction isn’t the game it’s the players which is not great for long term growth.

          • rkmid71

            And it doesn’t help when some of the highest paid players don’t even respect the game, at least in the NWSL. What are fans supposed to think?

          • HOFCToDi

            The USWNT is an exclusive country club whose former leaders were only concerned about self preservation:

            USWNTPA
            President – Rampone
            Vice President – Wambach
            Treasurer – Boxx

            Sermanni never had the chance to survive the institutional coup d’état.

          • Bill

            agree there is a grain of truth to that. I think they took advantage of the OG loss to break up some of that. Solo and Rapinoe come to mind. And I think the Heath selection is a message to Wambach/Lloyd style players and the entitlement mentality that this is the future the powers that be want to go.

            I think that 60 minutes program was filmed ages ago and would have been shown much earlier if we won gold.
            In fact to 60 minutes I suspect it became filler shown weeks after the fact.

            Notice Heath mentioned this year as not “quiet” as the interviewer implied but in fact important to build new foundations.

            Evolution not revolution. if you were Ellis and trying to live in an environment where she supported the league attendance by playing old stars and at the same time shifted the power to coaches not players you might play exactly as she has since the loss. ( Yeah she is coaching to prove herself after the decisions played out in the loss).

            Job one was breaking up the union. Classic way to do that is remind the entrenched that there are plenty of scrubs and scabs willing to step forward for the jobs while trimming the sails of the union leaders ( Solo). What better way to remind Lloyd that she may not get what she wants and knocking her off her perch, than voting for others, playing lots of others and trying different schemes …unsetttling if you are Lloyd

          • HOFCToDi

            Jill Ellis has her hands tied by current CBA structure. The USSF is not a bottomless pit and will only allocate so many players.

            Jurgen Klinsmann could call up anyone he wished without any repercussions from the USMNTPA. If a player was injured, tough ****. As for the former USMNT head coach, Jurgen could not coach his way out of paper bag.

            topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/11/jurgen-klinsmann-was-pulled-down-by-his-own-fraught-ideology/

            #PaytoPlay

          • DNG

            Agreed. Some of the NT players have not had the best attitude towards the league. I think some of the NWSL stuff need to be addressed in the next CBA

          • mockmook

            But, we also need to keep the USWNT strong until the NWSL (or some successor) has the cachet of the national team.

          • Steglitz49

            Then weed out the losers, including those who can’t cope with pressure, and bring in some fresh talent.

          • Chak Khan

            Keep the NWSL separated from WNT. Give WSLs a Club World Cup. PRoblem solved!

          • Steglitz49

            They had one from 2012 to 2014 in Japan but the NWSL never bothered to show up.

            The absence of an NWSL team may explain why the competition was abandoned.

          • Steglitz49

            The fans conclude that WoSo is not a serious sport in the US.

          • Chak Khan

            Where is the world women’s soccer, or any women’s sports for that matter, considered serious?

          • HOFCToDi

            Frauen Bundesliga
            2016/2017 Season
            Average Attendance – 956

            worldfootball.net/attendance/frauen-bundesliga-2016-2017/1/

            Frauen Bundesliga
            2015/2016 Season
            Average Attendance – 1,076

            worldfootball.net/attendance/frauen-bundesliga-2015-2016/1/

          • HOFCToDi

            Steglitz49 has failed to produce the attendance figures for the 2016 Algarve Cup.

          • rkmid71

            I think you’re going to be waiting for awhile. I suspect it was between 100 to 500 per match. But I kind of thought it was similar to Shell’s Wonderful World of Golf, those televised friendly “challenge” matches that started in the 60s….held at various locations all over the world. The show included info on the host country and conversations between competitors between shots. Basically promoted goodwill while competing. Maybe that’s what Sermani incorrectly assumed too?

          • HOFCToDi

            1996 Summer Olympics
            Women’s tournament
            Average Attendance – 43,235

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_at_the_1996_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_tournament

            2016 Summer Olympics
            Women’s Tournament
            Average Attendance – 24,457

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_tournament

          • Steglitz49

            Your point is in principle well taken but with the big name clubs putting resources into, their brand is at stake, so it is crawling up the Richter scale.

            The main obstacle is the media who only embrace male sports the world over. Maybe legislation about equal access like the 40:60 rule needs to be put into place.

          • Bill

            agreed…but the goal of keeping the league viable does lend itself to some “star” based marketing.

            Some fans root for the great game. Some for the uniform and some for the stars and some for the appealing personalities. That combination of reasons to buy a ticket fills a larger stadium?

          • Steglitz49

            Hear hear!

          • USMNTfan4life

            DNG, You are absolutely right.

          • anon

            america likes winners. uswnt wins. they are famous because they win. usmnt lose. it’s really that simple.

            also mens soccer is still a second tier sport here… i see that changing in 10-20 years as less kids play football and baseball.

          • USMNTfan4life

            Understand the part about winners. If that was true for everything, then the Harlem Globetrotters would be the most popular basketball team in the world (maybe they are?). I think it is nationalism plus the spectable of American white women showing athletic superiority over women of color from other countries. Perhaps?

          • anon

            I don’t think it has anything to do with race. Press is one of the most popular players and she is biracial… same with the up and coming Pugh. It’s just the fact that they win all the time, at least on home soil where their young fans are attending games. Soccer is also currently the most popular sport for young women here.

          • USMNTfan4life

            In my opinion, the biggest thing is that some of these girls are attractive. Honestly, if they looked like Serena Williams (dark-skinned black girl), do you think they would get the press (no punn intended) they do?

          • guest

            the “alex morgan effect” circa 2012 cannot be underestimated. granted the increased exposure post-2011 WC was also due to that crazy Brazil semi.

          • anon

            that’s why Press’s tendency to choke in major tournaments/championship games is kind of unfortunate for her…. people were expecting her to blow up bigger than Morgan at the 2015 WC, especially since AM13 was injured. not that she doesn’t still do very well for herself with endorsements…

          • Steglitz49

            If WoSo was a serious sport in the US, Christen would no longer be in the WNT after both the OG QF and the NWSL SF misses. Sorry to be so harsh but it shows in what a mess US WoSo is in.

          • Observed

            Williams gets plenty of press. More than any woso player.

          • HOFCToDi

            “Soccer is also currently the most popular sport for young women here.”

            Provide your source.

          • rkmid71

            In HS, I think basketball, track & field, volleyball are all above soccer. Soccer and softball are about the same. Soccer jumps up in terms of # of participants in college per NCAA, presumably because the team size is larger than many other sports except track & field. But only 2.4% of HS soccer players go on to play D1 soccer.

          • HOFCToDi

            The United States experienced the most successful Summer Olympics this century.

            United States at the 2016 Summer Olympics
            Medals by Gender
            Female Medalists – 61 (27 gold, 17 silver, 17 bronze)
            Mixed Medalists – 4 (1 gold, 2 silver, 1 bronze)

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics#Medalists

            Do you honestly believe the USOC gives a damn about soccer? Or do you honestly believe the USOC leaves the USSF to its own devices?

          • HOFCToDi

            By the way, softball is back for the 2020 Summer Olympic Games.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Summer_Olympics#New_sports

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you. How on earth did they manage that? Is softball popular in Japan?

          • rkmid71

            Yes indeed! Japan won World Championships in 2012 and 2014 and have finished 2nd to US several times. Also, other than Japan and US — China, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand, Canada seem to consistently have strong teams.

          • HOFCToDi

            Briana Scurry would like to have a word with you.

          • DNG

            “spectable of American white women showing athletic superiority over women of color from other countries”

            I seriously doubt it has anything to do with their popularity.

          • HOFCToDi

            Revisionist American history?

            How about Jesse Owens at the 1936 Berlin Olympics showing up the “master race”?

          • FlyingSquirrel42

            At least two of the USWNT’s main “rivals” – Germany and Canada – are probably just as white as they are. Brazil and Japan are probably the only teams whose paths they regularly cross who are composed primarily of women of color.

            As to why people go to see them play against less competitive teams from Latin America, Asia, and Africa, remember that they don’t play *that* many games in the U.S. per year. I went to see them play against Colombia in the spring, mostly because it was the only time they had a game within driving distance for me. If you want to catch a USWNT game, you don’t necessarily get to pick and choose the opponents.

          • Steglitz49

            What the heck is this nonsense and drivel?

            The Japanese WNT is composed of Japanese players who are Japanese. How can they be “primarily of women of color”? They can’t help that they are what they are. Good grief!

            As for Brazil, it is well recognized that though the Brazilians pride themselves on their inclusivity, being pale and fair, that is clearly of Europid ancestry, is a huge advantage in life in general.

            Please do your homework and get back to the EQ!

          • Excuses..Excuses

            WTF?! How in the hell is Canada just “as white”, when 3 members of the team’s starting line up, which won the bronze medal in Brazil, were black? Not biracial but Black. Canada blows the US out of the water when it comes to fielding a diverse national team.

            http://www.womenssoccerunited.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/canada-rio.jpg

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you. Hear hear!

        • Bill

          OK. So place yourself responsible for growing a sport in the USA which is relatively:
          1) New
          2) Has no past legends generations pass down ( I saw Red Grange. saw Babe Ruth. I saw Bob Gibson. I saw Jerry Rice, I saw Wilt. I saw Bird. I saw MJ)
          3) Has competition
          4) Has many HS which do not set aside money for it and in budget constrained times struggle to field the expensive sports ( Swimming, Football, Baseball. )
          5) Plays on large expensive fields ( means inner city schools rarely have the space)
          6) Only recently ( and due to stars winning) has a tv contract

          One time honored way sports in America grow is through attracting fans of players people aspire to be. Legends.
          Stupid reason? Yes. Matter? no

          Many ascribe the size of baseball today from a fringe sport to the era where Babe Ruth had a major city contract. And radio to broadcast Murderers Row. Was the rest of the league tomato cans compared to the Yankees? Absolutely. Did the Yankees trains and hotels get mobbed? Yes

          Was football a fringe sport until a TV contract for Sunday games in non baseball season? Yes

          Was basketball the size it is today before Bird and Magic followed by Jordan?

          Was golf big before great American Golfers?

          Wrestling has been around forever. Got popular when it learned to promote stars and villans and get very good at promoting soap opera story lines

          So one way people try to grow their slice of entertainment dollars is through an all american star based winners and appealing to young people.

          Soccer will take off when we have a great American player. Until then a stream of winning people for girl fans to root for and emulate by playing is the path to making the sport the same size here as it is elsewhere

          Know what else is going to help soccers growth in the US and attract athletes?

          The inevitable lawsuits and cases law against colleges public schools and the NFL ( and the associated rule changes) over concussions that the next decades will bring.

          One way to look at it

          • HOFCToDi

            Professional Sports Leagues by revenue

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue

          • HOFCToDi

            Sports Cable TV Ratings for Wednesday, 30 Nov 2016
            MLS Playoffs
            Toronto/Montreal, FS1 – 223,000 viewers

            sportstvratings.com/north-carolina-indiana-sportscenter-purdue-louisville-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-wednesday-november-30-2016/6982/

            Sports Cable TV Ratings for Sunday, 27 Nov 2016
            MLS Playoffs
            Rapids/Sounders, ESPN – 295,000 viewers

            sportstvratings.com/nfl-countdown-nfl-insiders-guadalajara-america-liga-mx-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-sunday-november-27-2016/6961/

          • HOFCToDi

            The NASL is on the verge of bankruptcy.

            The New York Cosmos have ceased operations.

            Two women’s professional soccer leagues have filed for bankruptcy in this century alone.

          • Bill

            yes and so did football leagues and baseball leagues and basketball leagues in times past. At some point that sport will break through in the USA to a new plateau or it wont.

            Would you recommend giving up? or what alternative plan do you have?

            Not a factoid spew of the current situation. Thats easy. Please make a cogent and compelling recommendation for a better path to a better situation a decade from now.

            Thanks

          • Steglitz49

            The USWNT could start by eating crow and show some humility before the fans.

            If you want to grow WoSo in the US you must focus on the local stars and teach them that manners maketh lady.

            Today you have a problem that US WoSo never had before: the USWNT was sent packing with its worst result ever by a nation with the population of either NJ or MA but not both together. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

            Immediately after the sorry mess that was OG-16, the USWNT needed to go into rebuild mode. Did they? Heck no. The same sorry excuses for an NT were allowed to trounce some tomato-cans. How long will the public buy such garbage? Ring out the old; ring in the new!

          • HOFCToDi

            Earth to Planet Denial.

            Soccer is a niche sport in the United States. End of story.

          • Bill

            We are in violent agreement. The discussion is about what is the best way to change that. Its easy and lazy to throw comments at the wall and assume that it is useful insight.

            Btw, so was college football before Grantland Rice. So was Professional football before 1960. So was professional basketball before Russel and Wilt. So was baseball before the 1920s. It was a sport of fringe ruffians and not at all the true sport that boxing and horse racing was at the time. For many decades more people in America knew the name of the Heavyweight champion than the President, Now its a fringe sport. So was womens basketball in 1970.

          • HOFCToDi

            If you want the NWSL to survive, ask Jeff Plush to beg Don Garber for a MLS bailout. Otherwise, market forces will dictate which markets will survive and which markets will fail.

            articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/09/sports/sp-21431

            Call it Soccer Darwinism.

          • Bill

            Agree with that.

            could be that the drafts should be of regional born players so the path from parent sponsored child efforts to learn are more in synch with the paths to team compositions that fans support

          • HOFCToDi

            Explain the disconnect between the Seattle Sounders attendance and the Seattle Reign attendance.

            soccerstadiumdigest.com/2016-mls-attendance/

            ussoccer.app.box.com/s/p58bqdab8s07o5oy9yr17zveesoghqd5

            Seattle is supposedly a progressive city.

          • Bill

            You have me there. I dont know that well enough to comment

          • HOFCToDi

            TV Ratings Saturday

            tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/tv-ratings-saturday-december-10-2016/

            It seems the American public cares more about Frosty the Snowman and Rudolf the Reindeer than MLS Cup.

          • rkmid71

            Hey — don’t mess with Rudolf and my favorite character Yukon Cornelius. It appears MLS shouldn’t either. Seriously though, that brought tears to my eyes I laughed so hard.

          • Steglitz49

            Hear hear! A great point, well made.

          • HOFCToDi

            Sunday final ratings

            tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-final-ratings-dec-11-2016/

            How dare those insensitive barbarians rule Sunday night television (26.50 million viewers).

          • HOFCToDi

            A dose of reality:

            What’s Wrong With American Youth Soccer Development

            whatahowler.com/whats-wrong-with-american-youth-soccer-development-e1b9bba8869d

            “There is no quick fix. A country so large with so many sports competing for a young player’s interest has development issues that will outlive most of us.”

            The High Cost of American Coaching

            topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/07/the-high-cost-of-american-coaching/

            “The coaching apparatus in this country is desperately trying to keep up with the boom. And it has not done a particularly good job.”

            The Great American Scouting Crisis

            topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2015/08/the-great-american-scouting-crisis/

            “Even if MLS does spend $30 million on dev every year, that’s $1.5 million per club. Bundesliga clubs spend about $80 million per year. Per club. Just to put that number into global perspective.”

            Pay-to-Play is a symptom, not the problem itself

            topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/06/pay-to-play-is-a-symptom-not-the-problem-itself/

          • Steglitz49

            I would put the high cost of American coaching at the top of the tree for obvious reasons.

            This is because it makes WoSo as sport like golf, tennis and even swimming — exclusive, not inclusive.

            The Bomb in Brasilia will not help marketing over the next couple of years either.

          • Bill

            like this insight

          • Bill

            Thank you. i learned a lot from your post

          • HOFCToDi

            I can’t tell if your reply is sarcasm.

            Anyway, even Jurgen Klinsmann was overwhelmed by the task at hand.

            topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/11/jurgen-klinsmann-was-pulled-down-by-his-own-fraught-ideology/

          • Bill

            Absolutely genuine. I learned from your posts and links on this subject on the thread. I appreciate it

          • HOFCToDi

            Where is the Jill Ellis Facebook chat?

            Arena Drops Hints on U.S. MNT January Camp Call-Ups

            ussoccer.com/stories/2016/12/16/19/05/161216-mnt-head-coach-bruce-arena-drops-hints-on-january-camp-call-ups

          • HOFCToDi

            Arena reveals USMNT roster plans, plus: MLS expansion, …

            totalsoccershow.com/podcasts/arena-reveals-usmnt-roster-plans-plus-mls-expansion-man-city-v-arsenal-preview/

            [23:05] MLS Expansion and why Don Garber is like The Joker

          • Steglitz49

            When HOFCToDi is on song, he is excellent value for money.

            Some nutcases block HOFCToDi but that is their loss. To be fair when he goes off on one of his rants, you have to close your eyes and scroll down.

          • Steglitz49

            It was Klinsmann’s assistant, Jogi Loew, who took Germany to a World Cup final which they won. Klinsmann only managed being knocked out in the SF on home soil to boot. It was Klinsmann’s team-mate, Rudi Voeller, who took Germany to their previous WC final in 2002 where they lost to Brazil.

          • mockmook

            Mia Hamm was one of those stars.

            Alex Morgan, too.

            They weren’t Marta, but our “heroes” don’t have to play just like Marta (though it will add to the allure if we can generate a player as technical).

            As to the concussion lawsuits, they could damage soccer as much as any sport.

          • Steglitz49

            Indeed. US WoSo has had plenty of stars but the lean years between 1999 to 2015 did not help, nor has this latest Bomb in Brasilia.

          • Bill

            Sorry…meant great male player. Who came through in clutch games and was a marketing star ( CR7, Beckham, etc)

            As to concussions, they can damage all sorts of sports ( baseball, Basketball, high school football) but the NFL will attract attention first for a simple reason…thats where the money is and thats where the attention for the lawyers and cases. Legally proving damage and liability from specific head injuries within a game and not genetic or childhood accidents…thats expensive. Requiring an expensive payoff. thats why i think the NFL is the first target. imho

          • Steglitz49

            CR7 is Portuguese and Beckham bent into a film but is English and divorced. I am not persuaded that Beckham was a clutch player in the usual meaning of the word. I think you are confusing him with the Baby-faced Assassin, but I may be wrong.

          • Bill

            Ok. Came through in clutch games and is a marketing star are two different factors in defining a breakthrough male American Soccer star ( hopefully stars) who can help raise attendance levels and TV revenues.

            No one thinks Beckham was an all time great player. He was something of a breakthrough soccer celebrity. Fans went to games…therefore revenue.

            Clutch a career and clutch a key game or two are different things. For example, many people know the name David Tyree. Did not have a clutch or good career. Had a moment.

            Both are usually necessary in America. Witness the years MJ was known as a great maybe even the best player. He got all the Nike sneakers royalties after the game matched the championships

            We want three different things on this site…great soccer well played…and more people playing so the former is easier to achieve. To do that it is easier to have more fans…and for that fundamental building block of the other two objectives…any additional fan dollars will help.

            CR7 is Porteguese? Wow thats a BBGOTFO.

          • Steglitz49

            Which explains why US WoSo acquired not only Marta but also Miyama but the biggest M in America is Alexandra the Great.

          • CED

            Complete incoherent blather.

          • Bill

            Right back at you. Been reading for months. Very unimpressive

          • Steglitz49

            CED stands for Droll, Chief Executive of trolls.

      • Steglitz49

        Tobin will always be remembered for her monster freekick in that 2013 NWSL Final. Her Aya-Miyama or Roberto-Carlos, if you prefer a male example, effort. Whoa!

        No doubt fans of Tobin can give us chapter and verse about what else she has done but that kick has made Tobin immortal. The Swedes for sure were happy that the USWNT forgot that in Brasilia.

        In short, Tobin put her time in Paris to good use. It was well spent.

        • rkmid71

          What’s cemented in my mind was when Heath was standing over a free kick about 20 yds out in 2nd half. I think she already hit the crossbar once prior. The camera zooms in. Heath looks dialed in. Instead Lloyd comes over and decides to take the kick. I’m saying to myself “No!!!!” Heath has this incredulous look on her face but goes along as there is no option not to. Then Rapinoe comes in. Heath turns into an OB. The rest is history. Heath was in the best form of any USWNT player going into OG.

          • Steglitz49

            I remember that moment too. It was bizarre. The Swedes must have drawn a sigh of relief and even taken heart from that one incident.

            One is on the short list for FIFA POTY: the Swedish choice!

          • rkmid71

            You’re cruel, crazy like a fox.

          • Steglitz49

            Verily. There is method in my madness.

            Do you know if it is true that both Alex and Kadeisha Buchanan have plighted their troth to Lyon?

          • rkmid71

            No, but I also saw the post. You seemed surprised …or was that because both Morgan and Buchanan? The center of gravity does seem to be shifting.

          • Steglitz49

            Yes. Yes. Maybe.

            Alex has played in all 4 NWSLs so far. Buchanan is Canadian. I was expecting Kadeisha to go to an English club.

    • atalba

      I hope she enjoys her journey wherever it takes her. Congrats Tobin!

      • Steglitz49

        It has taken her to the TreeTop Hotel outside Luleå. Maybe Svalbard next?

        • Bethjhodge

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  • #1Fan

    Glad she is happy. Because she lives in a bubble. its really not sustainable.

    http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/story/nwsl-womens-soccer-retirements-uswnt-121516

    Its also why the USA can outlast most countries at the senior level.

    • Steglitz49

      Que?! Please expand.

    • DNG

      The league seems to be pretty stable at the moment. The players I do worry about though are those at the bottom of the pay scale. The sacrifice of these players for even a couple years is essential to the success of the league. I think most of these players know that soccer is not a viable long term career path and yet, the one who love playing seem to be willing to put their future careers on hold to play. We’ll see if that holds up but it has so far.

      • rkmid71

        If the USWNT becomes more merit based, they change the CBA to allow more competition, regularly call up NWSL players and JE and the coaches really do value players performing in the league, then more players will be willing to sacrifice for longer periods. That’s why this new CBA is critical in my view.

        • #1Fan

          Playing for the NT cannot be the only financially sustainable path for a player if we want to have a great league.

          • rkmid71

            Agree. But it seems that we are still a long way from that. It helps that the big clubs in Europe seem to be investing more in WoSo, giving interesting options to college seniors, players like Horan, etc. In the article you linked, the salaries are still abysmal for most in the league and an increase from $6k to $7.2k doesn’t amount to much (though is better than nothing). As Reeves says, you are basically begging for someone else to pay your expenses or you’re finding 2-3 other jobs to do at the same time (i.e. not devoting full time to training, recovery, training, etc)

          • Steglitz49

            Yes and no. Europe can not possibly satisfy the desires of all US players. The big clubs will acquire what they judge to be the top talent. Others can go to smaller clubs if they can afford to.

            Doubtless, it will be great experience and may well stand them in good stead for their future, non-soccer lives.

          • CED

            European clubs are investing in branding, they really don’t care much about WoSo in itself. The WoSo games are poorly attended, but losing money on WoSo side for big clubs is worth the PR and branding. Barca’s interest in NWSL team is about increased branding of the Barca name in USA. Just like their current and new academies, Barca has explicitly said they have no interest in MLS side..why? They don’t want to spend 130M for MLS club, salaries for a team and setting up full massive operations when they feel they can get the branding and exposure, maybe not as much, but more cost effectively via other US ventures such as academies, occasional pre season champions tourney and maybe NWSL.

          • Steglitz49

            Indeed. A few of big clubs, like Arsenal, Lyon and PSG have voluntarily gone down the WoSo path but the others have done it grudgingly because behind the scenes ministers of sport have threatened with legislation.

            Man Utd have so far chosen not to restart its WoSo team that they closed own 10 years ago; Real Madrid has never had one. In Spain the three big ladies clubs are Atletico, Bilbao and Barcelona.

            The big clubs seem to have taken on board that WoSo could generate income for them down the line. After all, an Emirates stadium filled with 60,000 fans of WoSo paying $10-15 means $600-900,000 before expenses and then there are the concessions on top.

            The last two FA women’s Cup finals have been live on the BBC, which is good exposure.

            WoSo in the US may have to rely on soccer being a route to a top college for enterprising young ladies.

          • USMNTfan4life

            CED:

            I have always felt this. Man City buying a women’s team in the W-League (Austrailia) and Barca wanting to invest in women’s soccer is purely a marketing push. If Barca really wanted to invest in soccer in the United States, they would open a huge store in the US (currently in NYC), and then put a team in MLS and the NWSL. I agree with your point that the women’s angle is purely branding awareness and marketing. In my opinion, the WNT players know that they earn money playing in meaningless games for the WNT, and that USSF soccer knows this. The league may not last that long, becase if the women play hardball, the federation could say go ahead and strike, and also reduce their financial committment to the NWSL. The USSF has all the leverage, since the WNT lost to Sweden in the Olympics and Hilllary Clinton lost to Trump. 2/3 of their Holy Trinity of sympathy and support fell to the way side.

          • Steglitz49

            Sadly I am not persuaded that CED has listened to you or, if he did, he took anything you wrote on board.

          • HOFCToDi

            Don Garber on MLS expansion, NWSL, equal pay, replay, ….

            si.com/planet-futbol/2016/04/21/don-garber-mls-expansion-miami-st-louis-sacramento-nwsl-equal-pay

            In a Q&A with Grant Wahl late last year, Garber said that he’s like to see every MLS club invest in operating an NWSL team. Currently, three MLS clubs do: Orlando, Houston, and Portland. However, when asked by SI.com on Thursday if there was any sort of league-level incentive for teams to make those sorts of investments, Garber said there wasn’t.

          • Steglitz49

            To be sustainable, the attendances at the NWSL matches must get nearer to Portland’s figure, unless the owners are prepared to carry big losses.

            If you want to be able to spend $4m a year on your WoSo team/club and each spectator at home games gives you a profit of $20, then you need 200,000 spectators and if you have 12 home games, that is 16,700 per game. Granted if you can clear $40 in profit you only need 8,400 at each home game.

            With sponsorship those numbers can come down but it is bums on seats that attract sponsors.

          • mockmook

            Right. But, THERE IS NO MONEY TO CHANGE THIS — not at this time.

            The players will have to endure years (if not decades) of “lousy” pay before the NWSL becomes what you want it to be — what we all want it to be.

          • #1Fan

            so please tell me why it will last that long ? I guess my question is what on earth do the folks who own these teams hope to get from them? Because they are paying players next to nothing. You say potentially decades till we see any $$. So why should it last?

          • mockmook

            It may last only because it is paying low wages (for now)

            Surely you aren’t saying that if they increase wages (ahead of revenue increases) the teams will become more financially sound.

          • #1Fan

            I’m asking you why anyone would own a team ? where is the return? Surely USSF money would be better spent on the NSL as a whole rather than a small percentage of it ?

          • Steglitz49

            The answer is probably the same as in Europe. There a few men’s teams supported their ladies because it was the decent thing to do (Arsenal, Lyon and PSG, for example) while others closed them down (Man Utd) or tried to (Chelsea) but were thwarted.

            About 5 years or so ago it seems that ministers of sport behind the scenes threatened with legsilation (a sort-of Title IX for clubs) which made them sudddenly keen to throw a bone the lasses way.

            There are some signs that the big teams could be seeing promoting their ladies as a new revenue stream. Betting firms adore them too because so far there has been no rumors of match fixing.

            The bottom line is that today you do not get fat running a WoSo team.

          • Steglitz49

            There is no return — yet.

            It is the decent thing to do — a sort of Title IX for adult sports. Like the brothers did for the WNBA.

            Only time will tell whether WoSo ever generate profit at club level. That it generates money for the USWNT seems to be an extension of nationalism. Thus, one strategy for WoSo would be to cosy up to DJT and his cronies.

          • mockmook

            “I’m asking you why anyone would own a team ?”

            The reasons vary. But, all kinds of sports leagues are made up of many owners that go for years losing money — many (if they are realistic) never expect to make a profit.

            I think the NWSL owners do believe they will eventually make profits, but I don’t think any of them would be shocked if you told them that it will be at least ten years before they will make any money.

          • Steglitz49

            It might be even easier. They can’t afford a men’s team — except possibly in tiddlywinks — but a ladies team is within their grasp, not least with the USSF and CSA allocated players.

            Thus, they get some recognition and praise and can bask in reflected glory, however faint the moon shines.

          • ARED

            I’m just coming in at the end of this, but I think you are both right.

            The NWSL is a tough investment (and product!) to sell, and likely will be for awhile. Therefore, it is important for the league to focus on prolonging it’s existence and making whatever gains are practical while maximizing efficiency (and rich owners who will throw away their money). If #1Fan is suggesting the league fold and other efforts take over, I’d have to hear/consider that more.

          • CED

            There are several reasons.

            1) Many rich people buy sports teams in any league to say they own a sports team. It’s an ego thing for some and to show wealth.

            2)MLS clubs have teams for branding and marketing. Barca is interested in a team to increase branding/marketing to the US to go along with their new academies.

            3) Some just like the sport and don’t mind losing what’s a few bucks to them. NWSL unlike the previous leagues that lost a lot of many quickly was designed to allow owners who don’t mind taking small losses. The salary cap is 280K, add in travel, admin, coaches, etc.. and subtract the revenue from tickets and some sponsors. One would easily garner the annual losses for the bottom attendance teams is around 1milyr The teams with better attendance are probably losing a few 100K. The Portland’s and Orlando’s are making money. There was some report out long ago that some team stated their break even even point was around 6k/ avg attendance. That’s means you’re at even with ticket revenue under 2M.

          • Steglitz49

            Do you guys ever bother to read what other commentators have already covered? Or, are you simply so in love with your own keyboard that you won’t listen to the music of time?

            1) already covered
            2) covered — except Barca only seem interested in a WoSo side because it is cheap — but we have not heard anything more since

            3) goes back to #1 — added to which is a simple analysis which questions whether Orlando truly are in the black.

            I doubt that you are breaking even with ticket revenue — whatever that means in the Queen’s English — of $2m.

          • CED

            The Swede idiot back again. Try to keep up Gulati met with Barca about NWSL and other issues right before El Clasico.

            Orlando avg attendance was 8785. They are in the black unless they are incompetent like you. They have MLS infrastructure already set so they had lower overhead.

            Only an idiot, ie..you can’t understand what breaking even with under 2M in ticket revenue means.

          • Steglitz49

            Good of Ol’ Gulati to keep up the good work. What did they agree? To keep talking?

          • mockmook

            “Surely USSF money would be better spent on the NSL as a whole rather than a small percentage of it ?”

            The USSF had to get the PA to sign on to the USWNT players being in the NWSL — the current arrangement is what both parties agreed to.

            Perhaps the USSF could have gotten the players to join the NWSL using your “plan”, but then the players wouldn’t be obligated to join the NWSL.

            The USSF appears to be trying to do two things: 1) Keep the players in form and available to US Soccer by having them play in the NWSL and 2) trying to make the NWSL a viable league. #1 takes precedence. So, they opt to pay the players to play in the NWSL (not just fund the League in general).

          • #1Fan

            The sword seems doubled edged now that the players on the WNT want more money. Having everyone user one umbrella would be better for the sport. I bet the USSF regret this arrangement because now they are in a difficult position.

          • Steglitz49

            I put it to you that the primary purpose of the NWSL is to fulfill the unwritten FIFA requirement that a nation must have a domestic league to take part in international tournaments.

            The NWSL fulfills this for not just the US but also Canada and Mexico, though the Mexicans may be forgiven for not understanding that.

            It would be much easier and profitable for USSF to have the NT play as a club side and rely on the colleges to train players. It is the unwritten demand to have a league, which has given us the NWSL.

          • #1Fan

            The teams are privately owned. I don’t see how private investors can be forced to satisfy a federation requirement.

          • Steglitz49

            About 5 years ago (ie WC-11 & OG-12) the big FAs in Europe (possibly also Japan, but not sure) behind the scenes made clear to FIFA that they did not accept that the USWNT played as a club. They considered that it gave the US an unfair advantage.

            FIFA have stated that they consider soccer to be a club sport on to which a national supestructure is bolted. The basis of soccer is the clubs and leagues, not the NTs.

            Thus, the NWSL came into being and USSF has not tried to challenge FIFA on this. Because the NWSL officially is a tridentine league of three federations — Canada, Mexico and the US — it counts for all three nations.

          • #1Fan

            Does not follow. How can the USSF force private investors to satisfy that requirement,IF it exists. They cant unless the indemnify them vs loss. Its either a business OR its a satellite of the USSF. If the league folds , do the US no longer have the right to send teams to international events? I doubt it .

          • Steglitz49

            FIFA has made clear that soccer is a game based in clubs on to which an international superstructure is bolted.

            How each nation solves that equation up to them. It seems that FIFA accepted one league for Canada, Mexico and the US. How those Federations squared the deal was their headache.

          • HOFCToDi

            Talking out of your arse, as usual.

          • Steglitz49

            Facts, young man. Facts.

          • CED

            More fantasy of why things occurred by you as expected.

          • Steglitz49

            Reality is a harsh place to live in.

            Money talks and real money talks louder than fake. Just do the math and get back to the EQ.

          • HOFCToDi

            FIFA needs to worry more about any future US Justice investigations.

          • Steglitz49

            It just means we replace one bunch with another.

            I doubt that with the changing of the guards, investigating soccer will be a big priority for the next 4 if not 8 years.

          • CED

            Spewing utter nonsense again. No it’s not the primary purpose of the NWSL

          • Steglitz49

            It could be argued to be the only purpose — at least the way the WNT members behave.

          • HOFCToDi

            What a bunch of hogwash.

            FIFA has its own credibility issues.

            Here are the Key Findings in the Russian Doping Report
            By Victor Mather and Rebecca R. Ruiz
            Dec 9, 2016

            nytimes.com/2016/12/09/sports/olympics/mclaren-report-russian-doping.html?_r=0

          • Steglitz49

            Old news. Mainly relates to certain events, including the winter olympics of 2014.

            I have never heard WoSo players being singled out.

            The question relates to whether WC-18 should be taken away from Russia. I contend that it should but not all agree with me.

          • Steglitz49

            The McLaren Report. A damning report.

            Allegedly the code used to disguise competitors has been broken. If no action is taken against this organized and condoned cheating, maybe WoSo could benefit.

        • DNG

          I think this needs to happen. I’d like to see the NT move to a pay structure where they are paid by appearance and there are no more year long salaries. I think it’s silly to artificially reduce the player pool. That’s really another issue though and I don’t have a lot of faith that that’s going to happen this cycle. From what Kealia Ohai said it in an interview with Jen Cooper sounds like most of the players at camp are going to stand together.

          • rkmid71

            Agree. Well at least Ohai said “most” not all. Now that Ohai is on the inside to some extent, it’s in her interest. I would call their bluff. Sounds like a good opportunity to bring in college players and others from NWSL.Why not? Let the USWNTPA think about it, allows JE to evaluate a whole new group. What’s the downside? Plenty of time before 2019.

          • DNG

            The problem is that players like Ohai, Williams and others in similar situations but without a contract are still likely to stand with the players because they are the ones who stand to benefit if they do indeed secure a favorable contract in the next cycle. This would probably be less of an issue with college players since they can’t be paid at the moment.

          • guest

            maybe not right away. but we all know if it is between a world cup and no world cup, carli lloyd will cross the picket line at some point. club play is not enough. she does not reach her goal of becoming the greatest female soccer player of all-time without coming back to the uswnt.

          • guest

            this is lloyd’s last cycle so she doesn’t have alot of time to waste.

          • mockmook

            Where are you seeing this Ohai interview?

          • DNG

            http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/mixxed-zone/e/48524660?autoplay=true

            They didn’t talk too much about the contract stuff. Ohai just briefly mentions that the players agree they are together. It starts around 45:15

          • mockmook

            Thanks!!!

        • HOFCToDi

          I have yet to hear a current member of the USWNTPA advocate a pay to play structure for the USWNT.

          • USMNTfan4life

            Why do you think they have not done that?

          • HOFCToDi

            Personal greed.

            The current members of the USWNTPA do not care about the future of soccer in the United States.

        • HOFCToDi

          The volatility of NWSL markets increases player insecurity.

          FC Kansas City
          Home Attendance (average)
          2013 – 4,626
          2014 – 2,018
          2015 – 3,091
          2016 – 3,162

          • rkmid71

            And club insecurity (assuming non MLS). And FCKC has consistently been one of the top teams! It seems the MLS route makes the most sense … to leverage their marketing infrastructure, fan base and stadium. Orlando, Portland and Houston have had the best attendance. I wonder what incentives would tip the balance for more MLS clubs to invest in an NWSL team? I recall Real Salt Lake was a possibility. And maybe some of the existing independents can get taken over and Barca and others can come in with their expertise and resources. Garber said he thought it was realistic for about 1/2 or 10 or so MLS clubs to invest in NWSL

          • HOFCToDi

            Real Salt Lake has been awfully quiet on the subject of WoSo for at least a year now.

            Don Garber provided lip service.

            Don Garber did not want to come across as insensitive as Sepp Blatter on the subject of WoSo.

          • Steglitz49

            Only if the USSF in some way make a rule that an MLS club must have an NWSL team will this happen.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you. Scary numbers.

            Though these numbers are considerably higher than the average in the German ladies league — 956 so far for all teams this season with best av of 1721 and last year was 1076 with best 1945 — they are too low to realistically sustain a team without big subsidies or owner losses.

      • #1Fan

        I disagree with you on this. At the margin the league needs to attract all the best players. To limit it to the ones that are prepared to make huge personal sacrifices limits the ability to grow. I agree that it appears stable, but it needs to be more than than if we want to continue to get better. I worry about all the players who are not on the NT.

        • DNG

          Growth is constrained at the moment by the economics. Investors are rightfully wary due to two previously collapsed leagues. They need to attract more ownership groups like Orlando to buy in and put marketing dollars behind teams. I don’t see any immediate solutions other than taking it slow, expanding correctly, and moving teams/changing ownership if it needs to be done.

          • #1Fan

            yes, but we have the players at the top of the tree asking for even more . Its not sustainable

          • DNG

            The players at the top are asking for more and possibly too much. I don’t really know what the answer is here but I do think they have a right to be upset with the lack of transparency of SUM among other marketing related things. It’s hard for them to know what to ask for when they don’t really know what their worth. I don’t really agree with the whole equal pay for equal work thing and the PR assault on the players part somewhat sours their argument for me. I’d much rather the USSF put more money into the NWSL as oppose to increasing the wage gap between NT and non NT player. I also think it’s very unfair that a NT player makes more than any other NWSL player.

          • Steglitz49

            Playing for the National Team is a rare honor. It is especially rare in the US given how many girls and young ladies play soccer, including through college.

            The fact that many more come to watch the WNT and pay more for the pleasure than an NWSL team demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt that the USWNT is an extension of Nationalsim. Maybe WoSo will do great under DJT?

          • USMNTfan4life

            Marketing does not guarantee anything. Orlando Pride pull in around 4-5,000 fans per game, after a huge marketing push. If Alex Morgan leaves the team or gets pregnant, those numbers will drop even farther. The NWSL should stop dreaming of expansion, and just focus on the current teams gettin better. Take expectations and ambitions down a notch, and promote reasonable expectations.

          • DNG

            Where did I say that it guaranteed anything. Your numbers are wrong by the way. Orlando averaged 8,785 with a median of 7195 for their home matches and the lowest attended match was 5842. Are they Portland? No but besides Portland, their inaugural season was better than any team’s last over the last three years. I don’t know the effect Morgan leaving might have on ticket sales but I doubt it would cause their attendance to bottom out although it may reduce it somewhat. One of the things I mentioned was expanding correctly. Since I didn’t clarify what I meant I will now. I think they should chose carefully which owners they chose to give a team and when to expand. I don’t think it’s a good idea for the league to try and expand as fast as possible. I just don’t think the league should turn down good opportunities should they arise.

          • Steglitz49

            Elsewhere in this discussion I made a simple estimation that if you can clear $40 in profit per spectator per game, you need 8,400 per game to afford to spend $4m on your team. With only $20 per person per game, you need 16,700 per game.

            Thus, Orlando is close to what is needed for $40 profit per person per game. Granted, the more sponsorship you attract the easier it is but it is also easier to get sponsors the more spectators you have.

          • mockmook

            Yep, expansion is necessary to get the sport into the consciousness of enough people that growth becomes a inevitable spiral. More teams means more player jobs, which means more athletes attracted to the sport, which means better quality, which means more teams…

            And, today, there is certainly enough talent around for at least two more teams.

          • Steglitz49

            Probably 6 more teams.

            What is missing are persons willing to absorb losses and a strategy to place NWSL teams in locations where they have a chance to grow.

    • guest

      do the uswnt players care about equality between players in the nwsl?

    • Steglitz49

      The young lady is 28. She has had a good innings. She has played with a straight bat.

      Tobin only needs the bubbel to last to 2020 (maybe even just 2019) and then she is on easy street.

      Tobin is by all means charming, winsome and of a generous disposition. She allegedly has a strong personal faith. The WoSo world has not only been her oyster but the real world is her field. She can plow and till it as she pleases. Tobin will never lack for partners to squire her to the Huntsmen’s Ball.

  • Joel

    Great perspective by Heath. More power to her.
    Here’s hoping more clubs find some of the Portland magic in 2017.

  • guest

    Lyon manager has confirmed Buchanan and Morgan are signed on…

    • Steglitz49

      V O W ! ! !

      Where did you see that? Confirmation, please. It would be a big step for WoSo.

      • guest

        not really, not in the US. more like a step backward. morgan had a lot to prove still with Orlando… seems like they are getting a really raw deal with her move.

        • Steglitz49

          Verily. I typed “for” not “forward”. Maybe I was thinking of a small step for WoSo France while a giant leap backwards if not into the void for US WoSo.

        • anon

          especially with everything they had to give up to get her… it is unfortunate for them. i hope she comes back for part of the season, anyway.

          • Steglitz49

            That presumably would depend on the contract. The Champions League final is on June 1st. The French D1 Feminine starts again in the fall.

          • guest

            so that means she should be able to do both no

          • Steglitz49

            Not if the contract does not allow her. She has to rest some time. It depends on the contract.

          • guest

            if she does both she will still miss around half the nwsl season for orlando.

          • Guest

            she’s made of glass. i’d be concerned about a Sunny Sullivan type disaster if she overdoes it.

        • guest

          alex morgan has much to prove at the club level all together as the marketer proclaimed best forward in the world.

          • Steglitz49

            Lyon is a good club because D1 Feminine is not as tough as the German league. Had she wanted a challenge, maybe Montpellier or St Etienne would have been better moves.

    • guest

      what a shocker! morgan only wants to play on the top euro club team. no way she was going to a team trying to build into a contender. its all about collecting trophies. the modern footballer.

      • guest

        alex morgan better hope lyon doesn’t ever switch to a lone striker formation. no way morgan ever starts over ada hegerberg. the real best forward.

        • Steglitz49

          Maybe Lyon will trade Ada to pay for all this.

      • Steglitz49

        Where would you have prefered Alex to go? To a team in Japan. Or to Avaldsnes, who has given such sterling service to US lady players, including injured ones.

        I know: Christen Press’s old club, Göteborg, where a young Hope Solo cut her teeth.

        • guest

          I would have preferred she keep her word about wanting to build soccer in the US and captain a new franchise. To be fair to her since i don’t know, she might have cut a deal where she still plays for Orlando.

          • ABCDE

            keyboardd warriors being unnecessarily harsh on AM. If I was a world class soccer player, I’d want to go abroad and potentially earn as much money as possible in the few remaining years I had left, too.

          • Steglitz49

            The snide remarks have already started, so don’t worry.

          • Steglitz49

            Alex did not swan off in the first season of the NWSL as some of her colleagues did. She has played in all 4 NWSL seasons so far and did not miss a semifinal for a wedding.

            Alex can be forgiven for feeling that she has done her duty towards the NWSL.

          • guest

            true but she can potentially do a lot more for our domestic league today than Christen Press or Ali Krieger could have in 2013.

          • Steglitz49

            Tobin, the subject of this article, and Pinoe swanned off to France in the very first season and others vanished for many and various reasons, while Alex put her shoulder to the wheel.

          • Stegpitz49

            the same argument applies.

          • Steglitz49

            To what?

          • sam

            maybe it will help her game. Playing on the trainwreck that is the Orlando Pride sure wasn’t.

    • Steglitz49

      Allegedly, Lyon has also acquired the German central defender Josephine Henning from Arsenal Ladies.

      Henning was in the German NT that took gold in Rio and earlier helped Arsenal win the FA women’s Cup. She had a spell with PSG in the season that they reached the Champions League final.

    • guest

      is it safe now to call lyon the winner of the 2017 female french league?

      • Steglitz49

        They play PSG in Paris tonight. The return match in Lyon is sometime next year.

      • anon

        CrysDunn and PSG with the upset

        • Guest

          rumor has it that Morgan was asking for so much money that the PSG manager said no because it would bankrupt his team.. kind of like a certain Brazilian player and Tyreso…

          • Steglitz49

            The Emir has more than enough money.

          • guest

            around how much money?

          • Steglitz49

            PSG pays Thiago Silva 1.050m € a month (not per year) basic salary, not including bonuses. If he wanted to, the Emir could land Alex.

          • guest

            money doesn’t seem like it would be an issue for them. he probably just didn’t want her.

          • Ashley C

            PSG has more money than they know what to do with. I think if Benstiti was still around a deal could have happened but Lair has always been one to develop players.

        • Steglitz49

          The 1st of their 2 league matches is tonight.

    • guest

      has the Christen Press uswnt starting striker era now just begun?

      • anon

        maybe. i could see her being the stop gap for the next year or two anyway for their exhibition games. seriously curious to see how she fares against top competition, if that is the case… if we ever get to see top competition

        • guestt

          Methinks she’ll be back to the bench by 2019. but maybe she’ll make me eat crow.

          • Steglitz49

            I think you are safe from having to chow down the crow. Can’t speak for rook pie though.

          • ABCDE

            she’s getting better… I do think she is faster and stronger than she was even a year ago. maybe it’s to the credit of working out constantly with her .. ahem… new training partner. it remains to be seen whether the mental piece and other intangibles can fall into place for her.

          • Steglitz49

            Christen was always lightning fast. I think it is too late to change her mental game.

            Whether after this year’s debacles Christen can have a career in broadcasting remains to be seen but the chances are probably a lot lower than before August.

          • Guest

            She seems too nice, or too reluctant to ruffle feathers, to be a good sportscaster or provide commentary. Foudy is annoying for the same reason. Maybe she could do human interest stories. Hope Solo or even Pinoe commentary? Now that I would like to hear.

          • Steglitz49

            Christen could do the pitch-side interviews and such stuff. I think she would be great at that.

            Maybe also children’s TV?

          • guest

            i loved when the foudy’s tv commentator partner asked foudy what she thought of rapinoe’s national anthem protests. and foudy’s response was….well i would never do it. lolll. he asked you what you thought of rapinoe’s protest not what you would do. but nice question dodge anyway. and foudy’s explanation of the uswnt rio olympic disaster…injuries. of course no further commentary why players that were injured before the olympics even started were brought to the olympics. don’t wanna lose that uswnt access. foudy is just a uswnt puppet.

          • guest

            nobody talks more and says less than julie foudy.

          • guest

            you didn’t know she went to stanford?!?!?!??!

          • guest

            That is my major problem with USWNT commentators. For as much as people dislike Solo and Pinoe, at least they speak their minds, are IMO fairly intelligent, and don’t care what anyone else thinks. Markgraf, Foudy, Whitehill, and tbh Wagner, these days, are awful and USSoccer shills.

          • Steglitz49

            To be fair to Foudy, I have not seen a convincing in depth analysis for the Bomb in Brasilia. If you have seen any, please post us some links.

            I stand by my whimsy, that the USWNT underestimated the Swedes.

          • guesting

            well you are in agreement with Wambach, anyway. as much of a buffoon as she is at times, at least she is honest.

          • Steglitz49

            Abby played in the match in WC-11 that the US lost (when Lisa Dahlkvist scored the penalty too) as did some of those who played in Brasilia. Indeed, Sweden drew with the US in WC-15. Both were group matches.

            Maybe Abby is a better analyst than she is given credit for?

    • Steglitz49

      Any update on this?

      I can’t find anything. I did find a French language site which covered celebrities. It had a tag for if you wanted to follow royals and one which was mainly sportspeople. No mention of either Alex or Kadeisha.

  • Bruce

    PSG Head Coach Patrice Lair reportedly nixed his club’s intentions to recruit Morgan, implying that the marketing bump would not be worth the loss of his team’s dynamic.

    “Me, it makes me laugh, says the former coach Lyon [from 2010 to 2014]. I was offered Morgan. The shareholders were ready to take it. But I did not want it. She could not fit into my collective. ”

    “If we go there, we will kill women’s football”

    http://www.20minutes.fr/lyon/1981295-20161215-psg-ol-patrice-lair-refuse-arrivee-alex-morgan-paris-car-veut-degommer-groupe

    • DNG

      That sounds a little harsh but from a football perspective I agree with him. They are a worse team with Morgan in the XI.

      • Steglitz49

        PSG’s Ladies only trophy of note is the French ladies Cup in 2010, when they beat Montpellier in the final. They also lost in the 2015 Champions League final to Frankfurt. They have never won the French League.

        Patrice Lair is trying to improve on that. He has his work cut of for himself but he has the campaign medals to suggest that he might succeed.

      • #1Fan

        of course they would. She is good, but limited.

        • Steglitz49

          Welcome back, #1Fan. Have you been on a business trip? Or on holiday in a remote island?

          Patrice Lair has a reputation both for developing his own players. He buys selectively too. The Emir’s pockets are deep enough but for the same money, Lair might prefer to acquire two players, not just one.

          • #1Fan

            No and no. Its become a bit trolly in here recently. So just not had anything to say. we are well aware of the Petro dollars funding PSG, but as I said. I dont think she is a good fit on ANY top european teams because I honestly dont think the top European players rate her that highly. Bringing her in for a hefty wage would certainly create a problem.

          • Steglitz49

            Your last sentence is on the money. It may even give Alex cold feet herself.

            Lyon would be a good choice because the club is fairly international. Jess Fishlock found it hard at Frankfurt because the players conversed in German so she was socially on the outside. (Their coach was English.)

            The French Ladies league is not as tough as the German one, also in France’s favor.

            If it was the start of the season, Alex might have considered one of the also in the running teams, like Montpellier, but at this stage it is no doubt the lure of the Champions League.

            But your point about disproportionate money for a PR-stunt is more than well taken.

          • guest

            anybody have any idea how much ada hegerberg makes at lyon?

          • Steglitz49

            I can’t find a figure. She went from Norway first to Potsdam and then to Lyon so that may have helped to up her income but I doubt it is more than $100,000 and may well be less.

    • guest

      if he doesn’t want alex morgan, does he even want any uswnt players?

      • Steglitz49

        We have to wait and see, don’t we. He may want Blackstenius from Sweden or Harder from Denmark. Drystal Dunn may suit him while many and various college seniors may fall on his lips, as they say.

      • guest

        The Dunn thing could just be rumors but she is still in Paris, allegedly. They can insert her pretty much anywhere on the pitch and I figure she’s not demanding a price like Morgan was.

        • Steglitz49

          December is an unusual time to chose to go to Paris. Springtime is the time.

          At the same time, museums and restaurants are open, and the Christmas window displays there to be licked at, so why not go in the low season, not least if the Emir is picking up the tab.

      • guest

        it can’t be good for the uswnt players cba contract negotiations if the top euro clubs don’t even want the uswnt players. not much else to bluff the ussf with that is comparable to what they are already getting at the uswnt and nwsl. at that point, we might see uswntpa support start to crack and see some players start to cross the picket line.

        • Steglitz49

          Why pay top dollar for damaged goods?

          USWNT players are high earners. Even in a lean year they earn more than EU players. This OG the USWNT bombed out.

      • mockmook

        That brings up an interesting question:

        If you take marketing out of it, who would be the NWSL player most coveted by the Euro-Weenie teams?

        • DNG

          Jess Fishlock and Amandine Henry. Not sure who would be the most coveted American player although I think a few could successfully fit into some of the top teams. Maybe Sauerbrunn.

          • mockmook

            Yes, I meant American player.

            Sauerbrunn crossed my mind first, too.

            But, I suspect it would be an offensive player (and a bit younger).

            My initial “official” guess is: Heath

            (But, I’d give Alex a workout before I’d make that decision — and, I’m sure some of those coaches would bet that they could bring Press up to her full potential)

          • DNG

            I think Naeher, Harris, Sauerbrunn, Dunn, Brian, Heath, Morgan, and Press among some others would all be successful in Europe. The question of who is most desirable for the top clubs is a little trickier though since teams like Wolfsburg and Lyon are pretty set right now and It’s hard for me to say that any American player is definitely better than what they have. PSG and the others right below probably have some more openings though. There was a rumor that PSG was looking into Dunn and I think she could fit into any side as a OB or WB. Press, Heath and Brian(Rapinoe when healthy) probably play the closest approximation of a euro style.

            Edit: I forgot about Horan but she was good for PSG when she wasn’t injured. Cristiane and Vero are probably better than her now though.

          • Steglitz49

            Alex Morgan, of course. Dunn, yes. The rest have either played in Europe already or are not of interest.

          • DNG

            The question was who would be the most desirable not whether or not a player was interested.

          • Steglitz49

            “of”. You forgot the little two-lettered word “of” as in “not of interest”.

            Got it?

          • Reality

            Press and Boquete were a deadly combination with Tyreso. Given that Boquete is currently playing for PSG and Press defeated PSG in the Champions League with her goal scoring, I think that Press would definitely be of interest to PSG especially since, as you say, she has experience in the Euro style. The question is would Press be interested in returning to Europe at this point in time.

          • Steglitz49

            Christen Press was deadly for Göteborg. She helped them retain the Swedish Cup, scoring in the final against her future team Tyresö. Christen also took Gbg to the QF of the Champions League where, had she still been with Gbg, they would have won.

            Based on her performance for Göteborg, Christen was an alternate in London and got her first senior Cap by TS.

            Playing for Tyresö, Christen won nothing. She did become Goalscoring Queen, an award she had narrowly missed playing for Gbg, coming second.

            As for Lair hiring her, quite apart from choking, there are cheaper players in Europe that he can sign. A USWNT member is monied compared to her sisters in Europe.

          • Dr Robert

            Given that Juvisy won both matches in the QF and given that they won 4 to 1 on aggregate it is presumptuous to declare that they would have won with her.

          • Steglitz49

            Where are NYRick, Reality, Newsouth and the rest of the Pressgang when we need them, not to mention good ol’ HOFCToDi?

          • DNG

            I wouldn’t be surprised if the players I mentioned were not wanted by many teams in Europe. The question posed though was who is the most desirable and while I think Press is up there I don’t know if she would be the most desirable. I think Press, Heath, and Dunn could probably crack PSG’s starting XI. I don’t know if Press is interested in playing abroad though. I suppose no player is taking the option off the table since the CBA is in doubt. But since I haven’t seen anything about Press’ desire to leave I’m inclined to believe that she’d prefer to stay in the states.

          • Steglitz49

            As far as I know, none of the rich teams in Europe has expressed interest in those three but I would say the Dunn is more likely to get the nod.

            Granted, teams with limited means would no doubt be more than happy to have them, but as a USWNT players earns an awful lot even in a lean year, this typist doubts that they would be interested.

          • DNG

            I wasn’t really going into the whole “would be willing to pay them” which of course would be part of the equation in any potential moves.

            Here’s another potential Dunn link.

            https://twitter.com/Tony_Leighton/status/810464545797971968

          • Steglitz49

            Chelsea just acquired Maren Mjelde and Ramona Bachmann so another international player would be par for the course.

            Given that the USWNT bombed out of OG-16, their shares may not riding so high on the exchange, but in that match Crystal was probably the only US player to impress.

            Let’s wait and see how it pans out. There is always Avaldsnes or Göteborg (Press’s old club, also Hope’s, Yael’s and few other Americans’s).

          • guest

            seems unlikely. they want close to a six figure salaries and a champions league trophy. otherwise they could stay in the nwsl and make $50,000 and show up for only half the games.

          • Steglitz49

            Indeed. That is why few if any of the USWNT players will play abroad.

            The Canadian WNT players and unallocated Americans are a different kettle of fish.

          • guest

            now she is a star because of 15 tomato can games. us marketing back to work. lol.

          • DNG

            Who are you talking about?

          • Steglitz49

            Dunn distinguished herself in Brasilia.

          • Reality

            I also doubt that Press would return to Europe. She’s already had the benefit of experience in playing Euro soccer and I don’t think she is focused on financial remuneration. The one temptation might be to return to the Champion’s League to gain the crown that Wolfsburg stole from Tyreso with their unsportsmanlike conduct. Given that PSG is in the quarterfinals in March against Bayern Munich, I suspect they are looking for that extra edge. It would be really interesting if both Press and Heath could be persuaded to join with Boquete at PSG. That would be truly formidable but highly unlikely. 🙂

          • Guest

            “unsportsmanlike conduct”

            dude/woman… get a life. press has a lot of shortcomings. there are reasons why she has never won a championship or had a memorable performance in a big game.

          • Steglitz49

            It is a fact. Wolfsburg broken an unwritten rule of soccer. Low cunning.

            As you may know, in a similar situation in the FA cup, Arsene Wenger immediately offered a replay, which eventually was done.

          • Claude

            But they still were not good enough. Focusing on a scene in midfield as an excuse for the defeat just shows how unsportsmanlike Reality and Steglitz are. Bad and sore losers.

            By the way-Tyresö cheated and betrayed all the other European teams in that season as they played with a team they could not afford to play with financially and therefore stole their place from others in the QF, the SF and in the final

            Terrible unsportsmanlike from that Swedish team. And extraordinary bad example of betraying in sport’s history

          • Bart

            It seems Tyresö had some bad luck with injuries back then. And Press had to play a different role in the second half after shining in the first one

            http://www.uefa.com/womenschampionsleague/news/newsid=2105808.html

            In respect of the Klingenberg injury. I can remember that she was injured and was lying essentially on the side line. She could have easily moved that few inches to get treatment. She didn’t. That was poor sportsmanship. Maybe on advise of her coaches. Wenger would have also told his players to move on since it was obvious that they just wanted to interrupt the game and she didn’t need any help

          • Reality

            Thanks for the additional article which reveals more of the circumstances of that game. Here is an excerpt from Gustavsson…

            “We had a Marta and had a [Véronica] Boquete who had been injured. When they were fresh in the first half, look at how they played, they controlled everything, we only made one mistake. It was a brilliant first half from us, we showed exactly what we wanted to do, very attack-minded soccer. But Marta had pain at half-time, she wanted to be on the pitch and we chose to have her on the pitch, even though she wasn’t 100%. Right or wrong? I think it was right, the brilliance of when she got the third goal.

            But it did affect Christen Press because we needed to use her on the wing to defend more and that affected the team. Then with injuries to Meghan Klingenberg and Lisa Dahlqvist, that hurt us as we needed to make a lot of changes in the team.”

            As regards Klinenberg’s injury, her delay on moving her was maybe on the advice of the team doctor. We don’t know. What we do know is that Wolfsburg decided that they wouldn’t wait an extra minute and decided to take advantage of Tyreso being a player down. This diminishes the credibility of their victory.

          • Bart

            So did Tyresö wait on Goessling in the first half. Goessling was bleeding after being hit two times with an elbow from Tyresö players (the fact itself doesn’t speak for Tyresö).

            She was outside for several minutes. Did Tyresö wait on her or did they take advantage of Wolfsburg being a player down?

            Please tell me any example of team waiting on another team which is one player down?

            You try to construct something since you are still not able to cope with the fact that Tyresö lost. Try to be a fair sportsman and don’t follow the Swedish troll

            This would diminish your credibility here

          • DNG

            Were they trying to sub out Goessling? I’m under the impression that Klingenberg needed to be subbed.

          • Bart

            http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000bdFkEGn125U/s/750/750/BPI-JT-UCLW-Tyreso-Wolfsburg-00482-2755614.jpg

            No, Goessling came back. Klingenberg had to be subbed.
            Goessling was fouled and hit by Tyresö players , Klingenberg injured herself without being fouled by a Wolfsburg player.

            Not sure how one or the other gave Reality the impression that Tyresö was stolen. They weren’t. They conceded 4 goals in a final.

          • DNG

            Fouled or not doesn’t really matter. If a player is injured it is up to the CR to stop play if they feel a player needs medical attention. I don’t know exactly what happened, but if Goessling was injured but trying to come back onto the pitch it is normally considered fair play to continue playing. I don’t know exactly what happened with the Klingenberg injury and how they scored though. If you can fill me in I’ll weigh in on it further. If they scored while she was on the ground needing to be subbed. I’d consider that poor sportsmanship. That said it doesn’t necessarily mean that Wolfsburg didn’t deserve to win.

          • Bart

            She was on the ground and needed to be subbed (which was not obvious). They scored while she was lying on the ground.

            Wolfsburg was in offense. I am not sure whether they have seen her or not. I tend to think they did see her.

            I agree with you that we can discuss about poor sportmanship here, but it still doesn’t bneed to forgotten that it looked like she tried to stay by purpose on the field in order to stop the flow of game (again, I can not judge – but she refused to move/roll over the line). Not sure whether Wolfsburg players got the impression that she wanted to cheat. But again, I am fine if people state that this was not good sportsmanship.

            But stating tat Tyrsö was stolen is just ridiculous (and I know it was not you stating that)

          • DNG

            Steglitz49 just said that Tyreso had kicked the ball out of bounds so that Klingenberg could get medical attention and that Wolfsburg then took the throw in immediately before this could happen. If this happened I completely disagree with you because play was already stopped.

            “it looked like she tried to stay by purpose on the field in order to stop the flow of game”

            This not cheating. Players should not remove themselves from the field unless directed by the CR. And since we can’t know if a player is injured or if they are faking, we give them the benefit of the doubt so that we can help a player who actually needs it.

          • Bart

            I am not sure whether Steglitz that exactly that. Did he say that Wolfsburg throw in before Klingenberg got medical attention. I don’t think that is true.

            I think Steglitz critized that if Tyresö kicked out the ball by purpose for only get medical attention than Wolfsburg should have thrown the ball back to Tyresö.

            I would agree with him on that (if Tyresö clearly kicked the ball out for getting that break)

          • DNG

            You might be right. I wish there was some video of it which would make this a lot easier to judge. Both things may have occurred for example.

          • Steglitz49

            Stop sharpening the cards and stop telling porkies.

            Tyresö voluntarily put the ball out of play so that Klings could get attention. You know that. Admit it.

            At the throw in, the ladylike and expected behavior was for the Shewolves to give the ball back to Tyresö. They did not. With low cunning they played it to themselves and scored a goal. Cads.

            You know that is what happened. Stop denying it. I agree with Reality, which I do not often do, but on this case reality is correct. You are a humbug.

          • Steglitz49

            He is sharpening the cards.

          • Reality

            Wolfsburg chose not to replace Goessling but rather decided to send her back in whereas Klingenberg was obviously injured severely enough so that Tyreso decided that a replacement was necessary. Those are different circumstances as regards accepted team behavior. And please don’t tell me that Tyreso was a more physical team than Wolfsburg.

            As regards your ignorance re: my relationship with Steglitz49, we seldom agree on anything even remotely connected with Press. Since I was the first to share this view here at EQ of Wolfsburg’s unsportsmanlike behavior, it is a surprise to me that he/she has decided to agree with me.

          • Bart

            Yes, Goessling came back. But after being out for severeal minutes. And yes, the fouls on Goessling were terrible. Dahlkvist should have been sent off.

            And now please explain where the difference in team behaviour can be found pertaining whether or not a player comes back after some minutes or not

            Again, you consztruct something. Don’t you realize?

          • Reality

            You are making a false equivalency here. Since Wolfsburg did not intend to replace Goessling, they were prepared and organized to deal with being a player short until she returned to the field. Kingenberg was lying on the field, obviously incapacitated and Tyreso had informed the referee that a replacement was necessary. Under those circumstances, the opposing team honors a slight delay to allow for that transition. Wolsburg ignored that convention and Tyreso was not prepared for this breach of good sportsmanship where Wolfsburg took advantage of their temporary disorganization.

            And please cease with the argumentum ad hominem comments as they only undermine your argument.

          • Bart

            Oh gosh. Are you serious with what you wrote here? Wolfsburg was prepared to play with a player down and Tyresö not?

            How many more ridiculous excused for the Tryesö loss you still have in mind?

            Please stop using the word sportsmanship. Press showed sportsmanship while you are only search for excuses

          • Reality

            Since you continue to attack me in a troll-like fashion, rather than make a good argument for your point of view, I see no reason to continue this conversation.

            Bye.

          • DNG

            I don’t think the Tyreso coach was explicitly saying that Wolfsburg’s victory was undeserved. I think he’s saying it was distasteful which I agree with.

          • Tyrion

            “unsportsmanlike conduct”?

            It is good tradition to stop playing if a player is injured on the pitch in order to enable the doctors to help him/her?

            During this game a Tyresö player was lying on the side line. Just in front of the team doctor. The player didn’t moved over the line by purpose in order to interrupt the game in an unfair manner. The player tried to missuse the good tradition (this gets more and more common unfortunately – especially in the last minutes of a match)

            Since this was that obvious and with bad intention Wolfsburg continued to play.

            Wolfsburg won the match since they were the better team in the second half. Trying to take anything away from their effort with those laughable comments about unsportsmanlike conduct is itself very unsportsmanlike.

            But I guess you are just repeating what the the sore Swedish troll already wrote here million times like a parrot. But by repeating something wrong it won’t get right.

            Press was a fair loser on that day by the way. Let’s hope that her fans learn something from her eventually.

            Besides that – I like the idea of Press, Heath and Boquete playing together again

          • Reality

            Actually, I was the one who first pointed out Wolfsburg’s unsportsmanlike conduct. Contrary to your version, I observed the following.

            Tyreso was leading 3-2 against Wolfsburg with the momentum on their side from Marta’s go ahead goal in the 56th minute when

            “…in the 68th minute, with Tyresö defender Meghan Klingenberg off injured, substitute Verena Faisst marked her 25th birthday with a Wolfsburg equaliser…”

            http://www.uefa.com/womenschampionsleague/history/season=2014/index.html

            In a show of bad sportsmanship, Wolfsburg got the ball in play before the substitution for Klingenberg could fully take place and the referee let it go. The Tyreso coach, Tony Gustavsson, was quite vociferous in complaining to the refs but to no avail. Wolfsburg then gained the momentum and subsequently scored the winning goal in the 80th minute.

            Your version fails to account for the fact that the team doctor was doing what was necessary for the injured Klingenberg whereas Wolfsburg saw an opportunity to put Tyreso at a disadvantage.

            I am glad we can agree that the combination of Press, Heath and Boquete would be a beneficence for PSG.

          • Bart

            Yes, Wolfsburg did take that advante as I aldready said before

            But declaring that Tyresö only lost since they were down for one minute is simply ridiculous. If a team is not aable to defend for 1 minute with 9 players on the field they don’t deserve to win the title.

            Thousands of teams are down to 10 players during a match. Wolfsburg was also down to 10 players in the first half.

            Dahlkvist should have been sent off anyhow after her brutal foul on Goessling. So with a good referee they would have played with 10 players for over 60 minutes

          • Reality

            Let me repost for the record…You are making a false equivalency here. Since Wolfsburg did not intend to replace Goessling, they were prepared and organized to deal with being a player short until she returned to the field. Kingenberg was lying on the field, obviously incapacitated and Tyreso had informed the referee that a replacement was necessary. Under those circumstances, the opposing team honors a slight delay to allow for that transition. Wolsburg ignored that convention and Tyreso was not prepared for this breach of good sportsmanship where Wolfsburg took advantage of their temporary disorganization.

          • DNG

            Injured players should not move themselves off the field unless directed by the CR. If they are in their half they can keep an opponent onside if they take themselves off the field. I don’t know what happened here because I didn’t watch the game but claiming Klingenberg had bad intentions because she didn’t take herself off the field is wrong. The referee would have added any injury time that needed to be added at the end of the 90. From what I can gather it sounds like Wolfsburg used the injury to take advantage of being a man up.

          • Bart

            It happened far away from the goal. Close to the middle line.

            Yes, Wolfsburg had advantage of having one player more in that minute.

            So are you serious to also to join those that clain that Tyresö was stolen and only lost since they were 10 players for around one minute. Pathetic!

          • DNG

            Where did I say the championship was stolen? I said that if they scored while a player needed to be subbed, I think it’s poor sportsmanship. If they were not trying to take advantage of an injured player they can kick the ball out of bounds and add the injury time on.

          • Bart

            You didn*t say that, but you support Reality who said they were.

            And reagrding kicking the ball out. It is common to do it in order to enable doctors to enter the field. It is not for for the purpose of waiting on the other team to have also 11 players on the field

            Again, Tyresö didn’t wait on Goessling coming back after they injured here heavily (which would have deserved a red card).

          • DNG

            Like I said below I don’t know exactly what happened. Am I to understand that Klingenberg was not subbed out immediately after the doctor looked at her?

          • Bart

            She was. Wolfsburg scored before Klingenberg was subbed. The doctor was not yet allowed to look after ger since she was still lying on the field (some inches from the line). She may have refused to move over the line in order to interrupt the match (who knows)

          • DNG

            Without seeing the exact situation at this time during the match I am inclined to agree with the Tyresso coach then. Unless Wolfsburg was in the middle of a dangerous attack and didn’t see the injured player I think it’s poor sportsmanship even if it isn’t expressly against the rules. The Goessling situation is completely different unless Tyresso continued to play on while she was still on the field of play. If Tyresso did that, I would consider that poor sportsmanship as well.

          • Steglitz49

            You are missing the point. Tyresö voluntarily on purpose put the ball out of play so that Klings could get attention. At the restart after such a move, it is traditional to give the ball back to the team who put it out. This Wolfsburg did not do and instead benefited by a goal from their underhand move.

            Teams regularly put the ball out so that players on the opposit side can get attendtion. The other team then gives the ball back. The tradition is as old as the hills but Wolfsburg not only broke it but also benefitted.

            Arsene Wenger’s name liveth forever.

          • Steglitz49

            The point is that Tyresö kicked the ball out so as to get a break in play. It is traditional to throw the ball back to the team who put it out of play. This did not happen.

            Instead, with low cunning, Wolfsburg through the ball to themselves and went and scored. They broke an unwritten rule of the game.

          • DNG

            The way you describe this makes it more shameful than I was thinking it initially was.

          • Steglitz49

            It was.

            Arsene Wenger is a model to all coaches.

          • Bart

            I can’t remember it like that. But if that is the case it is of course poor sportmanship. But to come to final conclusion I would like to see whether Tyresö played the ball out with a clear indication that it was for subbing Klingenberg out. I unfortuntaly didn’t found something on Youtube

            But then I am also wondering about all the Reality arguments? I guess they don’t make any sense at all anymore

            So I admit I might be wrong with my argument about the sportmanship. But I guess arguing that Tyresö lost cause that happend is still not reasonable at all.

            And please don’t forget that one Tyresö player should have been sent off in gthe first half. I guess hitting with an elbow in the face of someone is also not good sportmanship.

          • huh

            wait, one of our resident Dunn haters is saying something nice?

          • DNG

            If you actually read any of my comments, you would have realized that what I am saying about Dunn here is no different from what I normally do. I think she’s very talented but too limited in certain key areas to be a CF or CAM and against certain defenses a flank mid. As a wing back or an outside back I think she can be one of the best.

          • Steglitz49

            Players who have already played in Europe have a big ?-mark by their names. They would not be offered top dollar.

          • Steglitz49

            Jess helped Frankfurt win the Champions League in 2015.

            Given that Kim Little is back in Arsenal Ladies colors.

    • Steglitz49

      Patrice Lair has the campaign medals from his time managing Montpellier and Lyon.

    • guest

      is patrice lair calling alex morgan an international fraud?

      • Stegpitz49

        lol

        • Steglitz49

          Please next time help us by answering the question. Meanwhile, you can start by explaining wy you laughed out loud.

  • Steglitz49

    PSG beat Lyon 1-0 in Paris earlier this evenings.

    Lyon clearly needs reinforcements.

  • CED

    Anybody else see that Allie Long was visiting La Masia and watched the women’s team train and was talking to the players.This was the week of El Clasico.

    • Guest

      What about it?

      • Steglitz49

        From what I can glean there are no tours of La Masia, but access to the grounds and La Masia are free. Of course you can not get into the private sections of La Masia or the first team training pitch, but the facility is huge and there are plenty of things to see. Also, you can watch youth games.

        • CED

          There is video of her meeting the team, talking to them on the training pitch, etc.. She also did an interview that was on FCB site where she talks about how she loves Barca. This could have been more than a random visit and occurred during El Clasico week which would give a player you might be interested in the grandest week of Barca culture and tradition. This might have been a probe of options if no CBA is agreed to

    • Stegpitz49

      no one cares about allie long

      • Guest

        How about you reframe that to I don’t care about Allie Long

        • Steglitz49

          Thank you for taking that bottom-feeding low-life to task.

      • Steglitz49

        Her husband does, one hopes.

    • Steglitz49

      For ignorant peasants like myself, La Masia is the name of FC Barcelona’s football training facilities. I think the ladies play their matches on one of the training pitches.

      There is a La Masia restaurant and Tapas bar in Visby, the medieval city on Gotland, Sweden, the island from whence Håkan Loob hails.

      If Allie can land a job with Barca, more power to her elbow. I don’t know what her hubby does for a living but maybe he can do it based in Barcelona.

  • Ashley C

    -I caught most of the PSG/Lyon match this afternoon. Stats wise Lyon dominated – but Lair has done wonders for PSG. The players seem like they enjoy playing again which was an issue under Benstiti. They were mentally and tactically better I thought.

    -Bouhaddi should not be making the mistakes she makes at this stage in her career. It’s mind boggling.

    -I thought Lair’s comments on Morgan to Lyon were interesting and for the most part I agreed with him. For marketing purposes, money and the chance at a CL it makes sense. But if you want parity in the women’s game you won’t like this deal. The NWSL is the most competitive women’s league right now. It seems French players also desire parity in D1- that Lyon hadn’t lost like that since PSG knocked them out of UWCL in 2014 speaks volumes to the imbalance. I recall Laure Boulleau talking about that. PSG was always the team with loads of money, big names and little to show for it. It’s refreshing to see Lair want to develop players. His experience always shows.

    -Seems like a good chance that Renard leaves Lyon for the NWSL

    • Steglitz49

      There is nothing that stops other men’s teams in France spending money on ladies teams of their own. There is money.

      Fairly 3rd rate male players playing for undistinguished teams in the French men’s league earn more than a decent living — like $80-100,000 per month basic, not including bonuses. Per month, not year.

      The fact that Lyon has spent money wisely, starting with Lotta Schelin in 2008, should be counted them for merit and not be a source of criticism.

      Montpellier, the team where Patrice Lair cut his teeth, have a much smaller budget but has continued to do OK after Lair left them. That PSG did not get too much out of all their money reflects the value of a top coach, which PSG now has. Why did it take the Emir so long before he changed coach?

    • guest

      FRA WNT chokes again

      • Steglitz49

        Lyon has its share of foreign players including some who played in this year’s Olympics final in the Maracana.

        Try not to be snide next time. It is the season of good will etc.

  • Bethjhodge

    Google is paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family! !sc412c:
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    !sc412c:
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  • yeah

    we all know why she is very happy here in the US

    • Steglitz49

      Please explain to us that don’t.

  • mockmook

    “In exchange for Green’s rights, the Seattle will receive Chicago’s 37th pick in the 2017 NWSL College Draft and an international roster sport for the next season.”

    Summer Green traded to CRS:

    http://www.excellesports.com/news/nwsl-red-stars-reign-roster/

    • Steglitz49

      I though Summer Green suffered a severe injury. Would she not be better off with a couple of seasons with Avaldsnes, the club in Norway that heals broken US players.

    • Bruce

      I like this move.

      • mockmook

        Doubtful that Summer is ready to make a difference since Seattle gave up on her.

        And, doubtful a 37th pick will help Seattle (beyond depth).

        • Steglitz49

          The international slot will, though.

          Seattle was after the international slot. They have long had several foreign players and no doubt lust after another one.

    • Gary Diver

      What happened to Summer Green? As a youth player, wasn’t she hailed as a future USWNT star?

      • mockmook

        Injured in her Senior year.

        But, it does seem she is always projected to be a star and never quite turns the corner.

  • mockmook

    Because of trade and tweaks:

    NWSL Mock-Draft 2017 Beta 6.1

    01 . Breakers — Jordan ( F ) – Florida
    02 . Flash — Buchanan ( D ) – WVU
    03 . Breakers — Lavelle ( M ) – Wisconsin
    04 . Sky Blue — Lawrence ( M ) – WVU
    05 . FCKC — Mills ( D/M ) – USC
    06 . Reign — Freeman ( D/M ) – USC
    07 . Flash — Andrews ( M ) – USC
    08 . Red Stars — Gibbons ( D/M ) – Duke
    09 . Breakers — Campbell ( GK ) – Stanford
    10 . Sky Blue — Hatch ( F ) – BYU
    11 . Breakers — Driesse ( M ) – PSU
    12 . Breakers — Dougherty Howard ( M ) – Florida
    13 . FCKC — Fletcher ( M ) – Cal
    14 . Thorns — Kolander ( F ) – Minnesota
    15 . Dash — Paul ( D ) – Georgetown
    16 . Breakers — Bauer ( D ) – Stanford
    17 . FCKC — Proffitt ( D/M ) – Marquette
    18 . Flash — Smith, E ( D ) – Rutgers
    19 . Spirit — Shaffer ( M ) – Virginia
    20 . Thorns — Ramsier, C ( M ) – Auburn
    21 . Breakers — Johnston, M ( D ) – Va Tech
    22 . Pride — Drennan ( M ) – S.Carolina
    23 . Sky Blue — Kurtz ( D ) – S.Carolina
    24 . Sky Blue — Vasconcelos ( M/F ) – BYU
    25 . FCKC — Hill ( F ) – UConn
    26 . Reign — Damaska ( F ) – Georgetown
    27 . Thorns — Cephers ( M ) – Va Tech
    28 . Red Stars — Castleberry ( M ) – UNC
    29 . Spirit — Alvarado ( M ) – UCLA
    30 . Sky Blue — Payne ( M/F ) – Duke
    31 . Breakers — Crowley ( D ) – FSU
    32 . Pride — Ship ( F ) – Cal
    33 . Dash — Amack ( D ) – Stanford
    34 . Sky Blue — Prudhomme ( GK ) – USC
    35 . FCKC — Watson ( GK ) – TTU
    36 . Spirit — McNabb ( D ) – Virginia
    37 . Reign — Kelley ( M ) – Arkansas
    38 . Red Stars — Beal ( D ) – Minnesota
    39 . Red Stars — Boyles ( M ) – UNC
    40 . Thorns — Raben ( D ) – Duke

    • guest

      buchanan is going to lyon.

      jordan is trying to find a euro club.

      • mockmook

        “buchanan is going to lyon”

        Unless you can give a credible link, you are just a rumormonger

        • DNG

          https://twitter.com/KiersTheivam/status/810211547767250945

          Nothing definitive but I kind of expect Buchanan to sign with Lyon. It could of course fall through but I wouldn’t count on her in the NWSL next year.

          • mockmook

            Thanks!!!

          • Steglitz49

            I thought that Josephine Henning already was a done deal. She has left Arsenal Ladies.

      • mockmook

        “jordan is trying to find a euro club”

        If she’s looking, her problem will be deciding which offer to take.

        • Steglitz49

          “get”, not “take” — also the money depends on the club. Maybe she would settle for $30,000.

      • guest

        that’s the problem. all the female soccer players only want to play on the same top seven euro clubs. only so much room there.

        • Hood

          And it seems that there are only 2 european clubs which are keen on those US / Canada players respectively are willing to spend the required money for them

          • Steglitz49

            Why should they spend on damaged goods?

            Might as well buy local talent of proven worth.

        • Gary Diver

          It is more like “all the female soccer players only want to play on the same top couple of euro clubs”.

          Everybody seems fixated on Lyon. What would Buchanan gain by going to Lyon? Last year in 22 matches, Lyon gave up only 4 goals. The last thing Lyon needs is a better defense.

          • Steglitz49

            Good food. Pleasant surroundings. Near to both the Alps and the Ardeche and Rhone valley and even Burgundy. Paris only a coupl of hours away.

          • Steglitz49

            Jess Fishlock played for Frankfurt. They won the Champions League. Jess got a winners medal though she did not play in the final, having preferred to go back to Seattle for the start of the NWSL season. Lucky her that FF did not take a narrow view.

    • guest

      anybody think the red stars might go for a forward like hatch in the first round? many have said the red stars offense is too reliant on press. especially with all this talk of press wanting to go back to california if a team starts up there.

      • Bruce

        No. CRS will be fine if they can fill the left flank and shift DiBernardo full time back to the CAM spot. Plenty of firepower available if they can improve midfield possession.

      • mockmook

        They have other more pressing needs with their #8 pick — of course, teams sometimes forget about need and go chasing after Forwards.

    • Steglitz49

      I stick to my whimsy, that Lawrence will be picked before Lavelle but that there also may be a worry that picking both Buchanan and Lawrence would tempt fate in case they swan off abroad.

      • guest

        What do you base this opinion on? You’re a fake.

        • Steglitz49

          If you have followed the conversations on this topic, you will know that it has been claimed that Kadeisha Buchanan has jumped into bed with Lyon.

          I and others have asked for confirmation of this allegation. We are still waiting.

          As for Lawrence before Lavelle? Team performance.

      • Gary Diver

        I would think CSA and John Herdman will have a say in where Buchanan and Lawrence play next year.

        • Steglitz49

          Depends on how deep the pockets are on the other side of the pond.

    • Gary Diver

      This is Fantasy Soccer, but based on your draft

      1. Which team gains most?

      2. Why would the Breakers choose Lavelle when they need scoring?

      3. If Buchanan and Andrews both go to the Fiash, they will have a top-notch team for years.

      • Steglitz49

        Picking Lawrence risks her getting a contract with a foreign club.

      • mockmook

        Uno) No question that the Breakers gain the most — hope they don’t throw it all away in stupid trades.

        Dos) Lavelle can play CAM (or even Forward).

        But, even if she is at DM, she will add to the offense by being a DLP and a source for counters.

        Tres) Yes. Yes they will — not that they need the boost.

        ————–

        The Breakers can play with practically a new team — and perhaps create a midfield for the ages:

        http://drawformation.com/post/585890c0b0892/sm-585890c0b0892.png

  • guest

    i am curious what euro club offers carli lloyd will get as the reigning fifa player of the year?

    • Steglitz49

      Is she actively seeking one?

  • Hugo

    offtopic

    Pernille Harder signed with VFL Wolfsburg. Contract runs till 2019

    • Steglitz49

      Thank you. This was much expected after she had said that she favored a German club and then Ramona Bachmann went off to Chelsea.

      Pernille is probably the best attacker/attacking MF in the game today. An amazing talent.

      We now wait to learn if Stina Blackstenius will move too.

      Very much on topic, I would say.

      • Hugo

        I am pretty sure she will join Paris.
        Although I would prefer her to stay another season in Linköping.
        Linköping is qualified for the CL next season. And it is sad to see that all their key players are leaving

        • Steglitz49

          Small country. No men’s club has a female team.

          The brave new world of WoSo — money rules and a little more money is more than no money.

          I wonder if Aulas’s pursuit of Alex Morgan has more to do with undermining the US than direkt benefit to Lyon. What do you think? A bit of both?

          • Hugo

            I don’t think that he wants to undermine the US.

            I think he loved women soccer and loves US players like Morgan.

            Like a child (in a positive way) he wants to realize a dream of himself

            I am not sure whether it will benefit Lyon but I guess it adresses the desire of Aulas.

            However I share your concern about money. Let’s support teams like Linköping, Göteborg, SGS Essen, FFC Frankfurt and Turbine Potsdam as long as we can…

          • Steglitz49

            Verily and forsooth.

            Umeå was relegated from Damallsvenskan this season. RIP!