U-20 WWC: U.S. fall to North Korea in extra time

The Equalizer Staff November 29, 2016 672


North Korea scored early in extra time and held on to defeat the United States 2-1 on Tuesday to advance to the championship match of the U-20 World Cup in Papua New Guinea. The euphoria of a late U.S. strike that forced the match into extra time was quickly wiped away when the North Koreans scored in the opening minute of the additional period. They will face France in Saturday’s final. The U.S. will face Japan for third place.

After a scoreless opening half, the U.S. was left to chase the game following a handball call in the box against Katie Cousins. Jon So Yon stepped to the spot and had Casey Murphy guessing the wrong way to put North Korea on top. Facing the end of their tournament the U.S. found the equalizer in the 89th minute when a poor clearance allowed Natalie Jacobs to bury one and send the match beyond the regulation 90 minutes.

Extra time opened up in disastrous fashion for the United States. They had the first piece of attacking possession but after the offside flag went up, North Korea worked their way up the field and scored when Ri Hyang Sim beat Murphy. The goal came 48 seconds after the start of extra time.

“I said it all tournament, I couldn’t be more proud,” U.S. coach Michelle French told ussoccer.com. “Again you find a way to get the goal at the end. We never gave up, I think in the end, the 4 o’clock games that we had (in the heat) and the possession that Korea DPR had, it just started to add up and you could see our players start to fatigue a little bit. That’s 100 percent to be expected, so great game for Korea DPR and best of luck to them in the final.”

The loss marks the second straight U-20 World Cup in which North Korea has sent the United States out of contention. Two years ago in Canada their quarterfinal match was decided on penalties.
***
In Tuesday’s other semifinal, France pipped Japan 2-1 when Clara Mateo and Juliane Gathrat scored two minutes apart to break a scoreless tie in extra time. A Yuka Momiki penalty made for a tense final 11 minutes but the favored Japanese were unable to get another goal. France are into the final of the U-20 World Cup for the first time. North Korea, whose U-17 won that World Cup earlier this year, will be trying to become the first country to win both events in the same year.

  • guest

    Congrats to North Korea, tough loss for US. I know US gave their all, but they were simply outplayed. US has such great talent at their disposal, but seemed to play mostly uninspired football throughout the tournament. North Korea was organized and knows how to play the ball on their feet on the ground superbly, but US just boots the ball hoping to get a favorable bounce and try to out hustle and muscle opponents. This overreliance or excessive dependence on athleticism is all too familiar.

    The US Women’s soccer leadership direction in regards to development and supposedly wanting to play a more sophisticated brand of soccer, for some reason is just not being reflected on the pitch. Time and again, Heinrichs, Ellis, and other leadership staff say one thing, but the play on the field clearly reflects a totally different story.

    • Guest

      Michelle French should be coaching little league soccer, not any level of the national team. ‘I look into their eyes and see belief in them’ is not a strategy. You can see individual talents on this team but the coaching sucks. Talk about doing less with more. French is able to make Pugh look bad which is quite an achievement.

      They got dominated by France and was lucky to get a draw. They were the lesser team but got extremely lucky to beat Mexico. They were completely owned by the North Korea team and the score sheet was very kind to them. The stats show it all. This is the second tournament French is in charge and it has been a disaster both times.

      The domination the North Korean put no them is something you never expect to see done to a US Women team given the resource and player pool available. Coaching change needed ASAP.

      • guest

        well… good thing soccer is results oriented. None of these games were blow outs. How can you get dominated but still draw or win the game? It speaks to the athleticism and grit of the US pool that we still manage to pull through most of the time, especially at the senior level. Technique and strategy – yeah those need some work but it’s not dire. There’s a reason why France never wins anything despite playing the prettiest game.

        • Bruce

          Lots of grit and athleticism in France’s current U20 generation. I wouldn’t be surprised if things were to change soon.

        • Jean Perroni

          You are talking about the current french senior team that used to choke in bigger event. Remember that That team is the first notable french senior team ever, compared to USA team that is in its 4 fourth cycle. I can tell you however that this U20 french team that won U17 3 years ago will be the begining of something big for France. They showed it in this tournament. They are not like their big sisters that may still have inferiority complex toward bigger nations like USA or Germany. This new generation is not like that. Spania is also a country to pay attention to. Women football is evolving. Being taller or stronger is not enough to win high lever games. France, Japan, NK, Spain proved that. USA better reconsider they way they run football development if not…

          • CED

            U17 and U20 are not necessarily a good translation to full NT success if the full NT is not traditionally successful. China 2nd in 2004 and 2006 have shown nothing special in full NT since. Nigeria was 2nd 2010, 2014 and 4th in 2012 and they full NT is still not really very competitive in OG and Wcup. On the other hand Japan has done poorly at u20 with just a 3rd place before 2016, while being a top and consistent full NT. I don’t put too much stock in pure results for U level as long as you have a coherent system thru the U system that meets up with NT, like Japan for example. The result for US is not my concern it’s more the lack of a coherent system, style and type of player they are developing. At U level results can be very inconsistent b/c you’re dealing with kids and not pros like at full NT level.

          • Jean Perroni

            But you can t deny the fact that women football has evolved tremendously the last 5 years ? You can not make a comparaison between 2004/2006 and todays game. In the 2000 s the level was still low. Every teams could win at any time. It was more like russian roulette. Most teams were incosistent. Things have changed a lot the last 5 years. I followed the last two u20 and u17 women WC and can say that the level is surprising higher and continue to grow even more, teams become more consistent. As for US you should have concern for team USA thay way they played the last two u17 and u20……

          • Steglitz49

            You are a wee tad bit unfair in your assessment of the level of skill in WoSo. The true difference is that more NTs can compete for top honors in 2015/16 than they could in 2004/06. The pyramid has become broader at the top — and also at its base.

          • mockmook

            But, the USA didn’t attempt to “play” in those u17/u20 games — we had coaches who didn’t demand a possession style of play.

          • rkmid71

            I agree. But it begs the question. Why? The coaches must have felt this group of players was just not capable of playing that way on this stage against this competition in that heat and humidity. Though the coaches themselves had selected the players. So they were between a rock and a hardplace and had to make due the best they could? What was happening in all the practice scrimmages and the friendlies in the lead up? I know they got smoked by Japan 5-0 in the pre trip to PNG and didn’t score any goals in 3 games in September losing to Brazil and England. So maybe that experience influenced the tactics in an attempt to get results? i.e. They didn’t want any more 5-0 losses?. And they still have a shot at 3rd place which isn’t bad. But that seems pretty sad. And the soccer on display woeful. I would much rather go down being the aggressor.

          • Steglitz49

            Always look on the bright side of life, as you do.

            If France win the final, the US can stand tall and say: we held them to a draw. If NK win, then the US can say we lost by the narrowest of margins in spite of their rough play. Granted, Spain lost 2-3 but tlets not get hung up on details.

            WC-19 and WC-23 even more, will be most fascinating but first we have Euro-17 and the ladies Champions league, which may include Alex and Crystal.

          • guester

            as an American, I sure hope more nations become competitive! I get bored watching the USA sweep the big international women’s competitions. I was secretly praising Pia for forcing us to rethink things post-Rio (which is debatable since Ellis seems even LESS interested in defense, if possible). And as much as I’m not a fan of the bunker style from a viewer perspective, that game was one of the more fun matches to watch because another team was frustrating us to some degree.

          • Jean Perroni

            USA was not that dominant considering the player pool, better women program and financial advantage they have compared to other countries. Yes they won lots of Olympics but remember that USA didn t win any World Cup titles since Bill Clinton was president before they won in 2015 where as Germany won back to back titles 2003 (in USA) and 2007. Dont get me wrong USA is still one of the greatest teams at senior level.

          • jdee26

            Mistake to think the 3-4-3 formation sacrifices defense. The wing backs and central defenders can prevent any defensive leakages during attack by employing recovery speed and crisp tackling. Playing three defenders in the back line frees another player for the attack to break down bunkers.Jill has to find an answer to the bunker defense employed by lesser teams during group and quarter final stages of tournaments.And might also come in handy when tougher opponents bunker to protect leads. The English premier club, Chelsea plays the 3-4-3 formation. They have won seven straight matches this year.Jill has to find the players suitable for this tactical formation.

          • Ethan

            When you’re giving a lot of time to Long as a player in the back line, you’re probably not that interested in defense.

          • jdee26

            Wrong again! Long is not the first player to play a different position. Besides, the center back in a three back line should be able to defend and distribute the ball like a quarterback in American football.No defensive alignment is impervious to goals. A more educational criticism would have made a better contribution to the discourse.

          • Ethan

            “A center back in a three back line should be able to defend…” Long didn’t exactly look great defensively in any match against Switzerland and Romania. I know people were impressed by her play at holding mid for the Thorns, but she hasn’t impressed me consistently from a defensive standpoint whenever I’ve seen her play.

          • jdee26

            Matter of subjective perception. I thought she played well in her debut in that position.

          • Steglitz49

            Who was at fault on the Blackstenius goal from Dahlkvist’s pass? Both Long and Sauerbrunn. Or, do you want to propose someone else?

          • suresteg

            sure?

          • Steglitz49

            Formally in the Bomb in Brasilia, the US’s line-up is given as 4-4-2 and Sweden’s as 3-4-3. This is not how I remembered the match but that is in the records. In reality the US seems to have played 2-5-3 while Sweden played more like 5-4-1, though in counterattacks they transitioned to 3-4-3.

            US’s backline was officially Brunn, KO, Klings and JJ; their MF was Long, Lloyd and Moe Brian.

            I ask you again: who was at fault on Blackstenius’s goal?

          • Steglitz49

            Please make comparisons to WoSo teams not BroSo fo obvious reasons.

          • ABCDE

            Allie Long is our centerback. Enough said.

          • vivelafrance

            Yep.
            And given your level of enlightenment France will also starting something even bigger after LePen has takes over.

      • Ethan

        Dominated by France? Sure. Lucky to get a draw? Not really. France, despite all the possession and silky passing, wasn’t all that threatening.

        Was Mexico probably the better team on the whole in the quarterfinal? Sure. However, I wouldn’t say the US was extremely lucky when both of their goals were well-crafted, better than the plays Mexico put together.

        The final score was indeed kind to the US against North Korea. However, it’s on North Korea that they didn’t score more. Plus, and I’m going to sound bitter here, North Korea was lucky to finish the match with 11 players.

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  • FawcettFan14

    It got my blood boiling how many injuries the North Korean players inflicted on the U.S. players, particularly head shots. At least three times they seemed to intentionally clatter into the U.S. players in the head/neck region, leading with elbows. It caused Watt, a sub herself, to get subbed out at the beginning of overtime. She was actually causing the Korean defenders problems with her speed and fight, so they came up with a solution: elbow her in the neck, get her subbed out. Also, I dare any of them to wear a ponytail. Come on, just one player. Or would she be punished?

    Dirty play aside, hard to deny that North Korea was the better squad. Better tactically and technically. They let the ball do the work for them. Always in control. For the most part the U.S. was just scattered and frantic, hacking clearances from the defensive end, no cohesion between the attackers or ability to hold the ball. Really that was an issue the entire tournament. But they rode their luck until now.

    A few bright spots:
    -Elliston: really solid the entire tournament, she is a good defender and tackler, and decent at connecting her passes. Never gave up till the end, clearing that ball off the line or it would’ve been 3-1.
    -Otto: not the most elegant defender but she sacrificed her body and came up with many brave, timely interventions.
    -Cousins: composed on the ball, able to settle play and distribute quickly. Unlucky on the handball call today. Definitely not intentional, it happened in a split second, no way in hell she could move her arm away. But the arm was outstretched away from the body plane. I’ve always thought unintentional handballs in the box should be an indirect free kicks, not a penalty, and continue to think so.
    -Fox: great flank play the entire tournament. She gets a bit too individual at times, running with blinders on, but credit to her for aggressively advancing the ball.

    Pugh and Sanchez had moments but will be disappointed by their overall tournaments. Too much pressure on Pugh I think, giving her the captain’s armband on top of being the well-known star player. She never had a great offensive partner to work with either. Scarpa was often too slow, Watt was great but only got sub minutes, Sanchez spend most of her time getting knocked over. Speaking of Sanchez, she played well in the Mexico quarterfinal, but mediocre in the group stage and today was nonexistent. She is tiny and could not cope with the Korean’s physicality at all. She’s only 17, just a kid, so her body hasn’t matured fully yet. Not writing her off by any means.

    Ultimately, just not good enough from the USA. For all their preparation, all their camps, all their friendlies, they still make mistakes on the most basic technical maneuvers, and it causes attacks to break down. The Koreans didn’t do anything fancy, but all 11 players on the field knew how to pass the pass with the right texture, trap it, drop a shoulder or do a step-over to evade pressure, strike a ball accurately with the laces. It’s 101 stuff. But nevertheless we need to get better at these things.

    • smallbatches

      your post covers it. My comment is that Korea is playing chess and we are still playing checkers. This is all about coaching, and not just at the national team level, at every level. We need to bring in some foreign coaches I believe. Our coaches simply don’t understand the modern game. I think on a basic level it’s all about handling pressure and how to do that and stay connected. When Korea has the ball there is always an outlet.

      We obviously have the talent. Maybe we need a house cleaning on the coaching side in light of recent youth team results.

      • FawcettFan14

        Interesting how North Korea has managed to play a tactically sophisticated style despite being the most insular country in the world. They never hire foreign coaches.

        • sudeep das

          Problem is that insularity in not allowing players to develop in other countries is spoiling their senior team. I mean one would expect great results at the senior level after so much talent in the youth system.

          • HOFCToDi

            North Korea are cheaters.

            North Korea Banned from 2015 Women’s World Cup

            ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/14/18/16/north-korea-banned-from-2015-womens-world-cup

        • CED

          Playing for the NT gets your family food, thus the incentive. The ordinary people are actually starving and in utter poverty. They are literally the last of the old school communist countries that put up the front of sports achievement and funnel tons of money to it while the actual country falls into shambles, except the military.

        • jdee26

          Simply means any culture can adapt to tactical, technical soccer.

      • jdee26

        Positioning and movement without the ball create angles for those outlets. Soccer is a game of angles. Straight line passes, more often than not end up with opposition.

      • HOFCToDi

        Foreign coaches? Such as Jurgen Klinsmann? Matt Beard?

        • rkmid71

          Or Tom Sermani as selected by a USSF search committee including Mia Hamm? I wonder what the search committee thought about the Sermani firing. There are plenty of excellent American coaches. We need a less incestuous, more open competition among American coaches for these national team jobs. And give them the power to actually do their job to the best of their ability without handcuffs of some ridiculous CBA that restricts competition for spots on the team.

          • HOFCToDi

            Blame the USWNTPA for the current CBA and “second class citizen” status. As for the “greatest team in the world”, I guess the USWNTPA never watched the 1992 Barcelona Olympics.

          • Steglitz49

            WoSo came into the Olympics in Atlanta in 1996.

          • HOFCToDi

            Tom Sermanni? Kristie Mewis attempting to play left back was cause for termination.

          • rkmid71

            I’m still trying to get my head around Long in CB, Horan in Dmid, Press in midfield, Lloyd as #10, etc, etc. But yeah, Mewis in LB probably beats all of those.

          • HOFCToDi

            Allie Long at centerback is at the same level. Allie Long will be skewered by the likes of ENG, FRA, GER at the next SheBelieves Cup.

          • meitsallaboutme

            what we as proud Americans need are coaches to keep players named something like Sanchez OUT.
            Wambach for U20 head coach. head hehehe.

        • Steglitz49

          Pia Sundhage?

    • sudeep das

      Sorry to disagree with you on Cousins and Fox though.

      Cousins was the reason today for that midfield disappearing – maybe she wasn’t okay physically. She should have been subbed out a long time back. Out of position, turnover after turnover, easily out-possessed.

      Fox – only speed nothing else. Got trapped in cul-de-sacs on the wing repeatedly. Didn’t have the skill to beat the defender 1v1.

      There was no offensive developing on the right wing at all. Was it Ellie Jean who played right initially? I don’t remember.

      Finally, I have earlier posted about the reduced physicality of the US midfield and forward line in their quest for technical brilliance. The players coming through are relatively petite at 5-1 to 5-5 – Pugh, Sanchez, Lavalle, Dunn, etc. Gone are the battle tanks like Lauren Holiday, 5-8 of solid muscle or Wambach’s 6-0 towering presence.
      https://disqus.com/home/discussion/equalizersoccer/ncaa_week_4_wrap_south_alabama_pulls_huge_upset/#comment-2895701151

      • Dillon77

        Well, if you’re looking for a tall(er), commanding presence, one might’ve had Morgan Andrews on the team but — oh yeah — Coach French cut her last time around. I guess Morgan’s going to have be content with leading her team to the College Cup this weekend.

        The Americans did bring a lot of talent over (not saying it was well coached) and then French let a lot of it sit on the bench. Most substitutions were made late, very late, in games and one of the results was the Americans were gassed. When your offense is geared toward “run and gun” tactics, that substitution policy can be very deleterious.

        Plus, while a lot of these players were sitting on the sidelines, they sure as heck could’ve been used on their college teams.
        I’ve got to think that a number of collegiate coaches are rethinking going along with the “give up a season” plan for the U.S. team, when other nations didn’t insist on it. Case in point: Monica Flores suited up for Notre Dame up to 2 weeks before the tournament, then played nearly every minute for Mexico. In the meantime, twin sister Sabrina red-shirted for the U.S., then got to play in one game (ironically, against Mexico).

        As for the game, North Korea brought it to the Americans on offense, but also played a very physical game that bordered on dirty. Saw a number of elbows aimed high and hard. As a former coach, I would’ve been pointing that out early and often. As a former official, I would’ve told players and coaches to cool it, then started finding my card supply.

        Lastly, French has got to go. This level of development is critical and she’s simply out of her league.

        • Steglitz49

          Your point is well taken. I don’t understand why they were asked to red-shirt.

    • Ethan

      I would say that Elliston was one of the bright spots of the tournament, but I was unimpressed by her offensively. Fox really impressed me with her late cameo against France, and she was great in the second half against New Zealand. However, she failed to consistently beat players and make an impact against Ghana, Mexico, and North Korea. I really don’t know how a center midfielder got on your bright spots list. Cousins had her solid moments (i.e. some tackles and the good pass for Pugh against Ghana). However, her passing often left a lot to be desired, she was late in getting to a number of balls, and she was frequently over run in midfield. Frankly, the thing that impressed me the most in this tournament was the work ethic of Pugh and Sanchez. (Did you see Sanchez chase back more than 50 meters, expertly rob the North Korean player, and make a successful forward pass only to see her teammate not maintain possession in the field of play?) However, that’s not exactly high praise in the eyes of #1Fan and some other posters.

      • sudeep das

        You are seeing the tournament exactly like me. Amount of time I had to spend in digging up old posts to counter some of the posters!!!

      • anon

        basically any player not named “christen press” gets trashed here (hofctodie troll aside)

        • guest

          LOL. Press runs a great PR machine for herself… she has made herself into a sympathetic character into the eyes of fans. Putting that Stanford comms degree to good use.

          • HOFCToDi

            anon is the clueless moron.

            Christen Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988)
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 6, Shots on Goal 1
            Penalty Kicks Attempted 1, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

            Mallory Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals 1, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 4, Shots on Goal 1
            Penalty Kicks Attempted 0, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

            Christen Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988)
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals 0, Assists 0

            Mallory Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals 0, Assists 1

            Christen Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988)
            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            Knockout Stage
            Goals 0, Assists 0

            Mallory Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)
            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            Knockout Stage
            Goals 0, Assists 2

            4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
            78 caps
            2 head coaches

            Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

            garbage time
            prima donna
            selfish shot hog
            tomato cans

        • ANON

          What does Christen Press have to do with the U-20 World Cup?

          • Steglitz49

            Everything. Just ask HOFCToDi and the Pressgang.

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988)
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 6, Shots on Goal 1
            Penalty Kicks Attempted 1, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

            Mallory Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals 1, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 4, Shots on Goal 1
            Penalty Kicks Attempted 0, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

            Christen Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988)
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals 0, Assists 0

            Mallory Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals 0, Assists 1

            Christen Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988)
            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            Knockout Stage
            Goals 0, Assists 0

            Mallory Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)
            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            Knockout Stage
            Goals 0, Assists 2

            4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
            78 caps
            2 head coaches

            Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

            garbage time
            prima donna
            selfish shot hog
            tomato cans

          • Observed

            It scarcely matters that Pugh competed in this one. Her team lost to the communists.

          • communist?not

            which should show you how superior USA are to communists?

        • HOFCToDi

          So says anon the clueless moron.

          Christen Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988)
          2016 Summer Olympic Games
          Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 6, Shots on Goal 1
          Penalty Kicks Attempted 1, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

          Mallory Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)
          2016 Summer Olympic Games
          Goals 1, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 4, Shots on Goal 1
          Penalty Kicks Attempted 0, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

          Christen Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988)
          2016 SheBelieves Cup
          Goals 0, Assists 0

          Mallory Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)
          2016 SheBelieves Cup
          Goals 0, Assists 1

          Christen Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988)
          2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
          Knockout Stage
          Goals 0, Assists 0

          Mallory Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)
          2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
          Knockout Stage
          Goals 0, Assists 2

          4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
          78 caps
          2 head coaches

          Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

          garbage time
          prima donna
          selfish shot hog
          tomato cans

      • CED

        Sanchez tracking back was great considering ET and all the work she had done all game. On the other hand I found many of the players to be either unfit, lazy, or clueless in not getting to some balls.

        • rkmid71

          It’s almost as if they were mentally lazy more than anything. Especially as compared to the North Koreans. NK was pushing up in numbers and when they lost the ball, quickly got back in numbers. Their work rate and speed of play was far superior. They worked together. And it was almost as if US players were not bothering reading or anticipating the play and just reacting more. Just individual play more than team play. You atttack together and defend together.

      • #1Fan

        Im afraid its not. I refuse to set the bar that low. I was hoping to see evidence that we are trying to play a different brand of soccer. I saw none. We can debate who the heroines of this collective failure are all day, but that is like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

        • Ethan

          I get what you’re saying, but that’s not setting the bar low. How many players would have been able to pull off what Sanchez did there? It’s okay to expect more from an offensive chance creation stance. I’m not saying you shouldn’t. But to say such great plays are really inconsequential and highlighting them is setting the bar low is ridiculous. Sanchez’s play there was one of the plays of the match for either team.

          • #1Fan

            Ethan. The team collectively failed to produce. I don’t get the desire to continually search for silver linings. It is foolish to think that a player doing things that she should not be doing is somehow great. It just highlights the collective failure. I don’t want that from my attacking players. I can find you kids all over the U in college who can give you grit and determination. That is what i mean by setting the bar low. My expectations were for the collective. Im not interested, nor do I think it worthwhile to spend time looking for Pugh/Sanchez highlights. And if you think a player tracking back is the play of the match, then boy we have really sunk to a new low

          • Ethan

            I said one of the plays of the match. And it wasn’t just tracking back. I see plenty of players tracking back to essentially no avail and don’t bring note to it. Sanchez worked her socks off after 90+ minutes of play to do something that her defensive teammates had trouble doing all game, which was comfortably rob the North Korean player of the ball. Then, she played an accurate forward pass to a teammate, which is again something that didn’t always happen in the match. If you’re thinking about plays more like S. Hyang Sim’s dribbling, then I have to disagree. Her play to open up space and her assist for the winning goal (the play of the match) was phenomenal; however, I thought she actually misdribbled the ball on more than one occasion and still kept possession because the US was backing off her so much.

            Something that she should not be doing? Well, who else was going to do it? If she didn’t do that, then maybe North Korea would have created a chance to make it 2-0. (And I’m saying this as someone who doesn’t like the strict requirement of wingers always having to track back. I also don’t like demanding that wingers stay forward all the time when it hurts the team defensively though.)

          • #1Fan

            maybe if she stayed forward, other things could have happened. Its a worthless debate. the team can play badly with or without Sanchez and Pugh or anyone else. I want to see the TEAM play well.

          • Ethan

            On that play, nothing was going to happen if she stayed forward. Sanchez actually played pretty high up throughout the tournament, and a lot of her work was putting pressure on the opposition defenders. I was just making a point to illustrate how disappointing the tournament was. Who doesn’t want to see the US teams play well? I never said that I didn’t want to see the team play well.

          • mockmook

            Sanchez and Pugh are part of the team. Duh.

          • #1Fan

            No idea why you suddenly became a troll.

          • mockmook

            Merely pointing out a flaw in your logic.

          • #1Fan

            well not really. More pointing out either a failure of mine to be clear or yours to understand. Its a figure of speech – the team can play badly with anyone ( using Pugh and Sanchez as examples of the best we have) I just want them to play well. Oh ..there are only XI on the field right? So they could be on the team and not play..no?

    • CED

      I’m not going to counterpoint all the nonsense you wrote but are you trying to kid. COUSINS IS A DISASTER!. Did you watch the North Korea game, she couldn’t make a single pass, she was a turnover machine, poor touch, etc,,, The handball was a bad call but Cousins was the worst player on the field by far and that’s saying a lot b/c many other players were horrendous.

      • FawcettFan14

        All the nonsense? Wow ok. A bit harsh.

        I confess I was very sleepy during this game so maybe wasn’t paying the most acute attention. Also my “bright spots” were more referring to the tournament as a whole. Maybe Cousins had a subpar semifinal but she brought some possession to the midfield in other games. Certainly I liked her play more than Ogle who I had thought highly of in college play.

        • offended

          when someone writes things like “worst player on the field by far” whoever is meant. how much brain do you think is involved?
          not too much? unhappy with the result and now looking to find someone to blame for? just might be?

    • calvester

      Loved the pony tail comment.

  • sudeep das

    http://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/uswnt-u-20-world-cup-results-youth-development-philosophy-april-heinrichs?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_m_medium=t

    As per the interview above US Soccer is on track. We must understand that the entire system is in transition towards a technical style of play.

    • #1Fan

      Are you posting this article as evidence we are on track? If so, surely you cannot let AH be the judge of that. What else is she going to say? If not, then I misunderstand your intent.

      • kernel_thai

        The article was from the Ministry of Propaganda.

        • Steglitz49

          The MSS — as in Ministry of Silly Soccer?

      • sudeep das

        I just found this article from tweeter. So if patience is what they are asking for then I am okay with it. Probably the next generation will show the benefit – not this U20 or U17.

        • #1Fan

          Are you aware that this is not their first cycle ? Why do they deserve another one?

        • Steglitz49

          In 2023 the current U17 will be 23 and the U20s 26 years old. They will be the mainstay of the USWNT unless we let the average age be 32.

          The U20s having reached the SF and losing by the narrowest of margins provide room for hope but the U17s need to be on song either in either 2018 or 2020, depending on age, for us to keep faith.

    • rkmid71

      She said the benchmark is getting to the semifinals? What about actually playing good soccer, controlling games, not getting out shot in every game.She’s had resources at her disposal no other NT can match. And they are “trying to rework and redefine what a YNT player looks like?” Maybe someone can explain why it is so hard and taking so long. Didn’t they select more or less the same players cycle after cycle? I think it’s because what they have been doing for years hasn’t been working. Now she’s wanting more time to “try” and rework it. Geez.

      • #1Fan

        EXACTLY. The redefine comment hilarious. The US system is unique. Club soccer is the actual development venue and this is hit/miss. Mainly because the focus is not on individual development. Its motley on winning games and getting to showcases so you can tell parents that Jane will get a scholarship. This is the pool from which they select. Other coaches have won and molded players from this feeder system. What they are now telling you is, stop. We need to have the players taught differently now by USSF approved Clubs DA and this will change it because the current system is no good. How so? Its largely the same coaches with the same areas of focus. I believe there are many players with great potential, but i feel that the current system is not designed to challenge them.

        • Steglitz49

          The US WoSo set up is different from that of the various nations in Europe (and Japan, I presume). The US system gives the girls a college education, many of which at the very best of universities. That is not to be sneezed at.

          • #1Fan

            Not at all. This is a ridiculous statement. The system does not give them an education. Stop spouting this rubbish its just not true.

          • Steglitz49

            Stanford, UCLA, Berkeley, Duke, UNC and Rutgers etc etc.

      • Steglitz49

        Getting to the SF beats playing lovely soccer and bombing out in the QF. Ask the seniors if you do not believe me!

        • rkmid71

          I’m not sure bombing out in the SF is that much better than the QF. Especially wen the 17s bombed out in the group and these U20s barely squeaked by iin the QF. If you’re going to bomb out anyway, you might as well try to play decent soccer. They’ve never won the 17s.

          • Steglitz49

            It is. Believe me. They can still finish 3rd.

          • rkmid71

            No offense, but 3rd may be good for Sweden, it’s not for the USA.

          • Steglitz49

            Don’t be snide and pathetic.

            Bombing out in the QF is reserved to the USWNT seniors.

    • guest

      Why this transition is taking so long or difficult to implement is a little puzzling.

      FC Kansas City is a perfect example. Why is it that Vlatko Andonovski can get American players who may seem to not display enough technical possession skills when they were on other teams, but when he recruited and transitioned those same American players together under his system and reenforced and instructed his players to play a possession based soccer, it quickly somehow magically happened. Why is it that Lauren Holiday, who seemed to play average when she was on the National Team, but when she played under the FCKC system and coaching staff, she turns into a world beater. It just seems much of the direction and responsibility lies on the leadership and coaching staff and less on the players.

      • Steglitz49

        I put it to you that your are taking Lauren Holiday’s name in vain. Shame on you.

  • Ethan

    I know I shouldn’t harp on Murphy too much, and she had the great save at the end of regulation. However, that wasn’t a great first touch from R. Hyang Sim. I think Murphy should have been able to close that space down and smother the ball at the striker’s feet or at least make a save on any shot.

    • CED

      If you watch the replay on the goal it’s hard to figure out what she was doing. She didn’t come for the ball and didn’t stay or make herself big. She literally fell on her face with her hands at her sides and the ball still only barely sneaks by her left arm. If she stays big at 6-1, she makes the save b/c the shot was actually very poor, not to mention the cardinal sin of getting beat near post.

  • Ethan

    North Korea deserved the victory. I’m not going to dispute that. However, are we going to get any comments about the officiating? I saw the US called for multiple plays that looked like non-fouls to me while North Korean players going in with their elbows and over the back of Watt and Pugh escaped with no cards. Plus, J. Hyo Sim managed to escape a red on her foul on Sanchez. I don’t think anyone, even at full momentum, extends his or her arms/elbows out like that unintentionally. She was nowhere near the ball and didn’t need to be going in like that either. (Then, there was the look down at Sanchez and continue to play like nothing happened. I know that happens a lot though.)

  • Gary Diver

    Ally Watt was knocked out of the game by being violent hit in the back. Was it a dirty play? Being blindsided in the back can destroy a player’s career. Referees need to issue more red card for the safety and integrity of the game. Was Watt seriously hurt? She is 5’8″ with burning speed who scored a couple goals in the tournament and maybe should have started matches.

    All of the misconducts in the match were given to the North Koreans. There is a difference between playing physical and playing dirty.

    USWNT plays Japan for bronze, who beat them 5-0 in the Papua New Guinea warm-up match back in May. Michelle French needs to find an answer to the mediocre play of the midfield. With an effective midfield, good things can happen; with an ineffective midfield, nothing good will happen. Pugh and Sanchez should not be forced to go back and rescue the ball surrounded by an inept midfield. If that happens in the Japanese game, something is terrible wrong with players and/or coach.

    • Steglitz49

      The refereeing has been poor in a number of the matches that I have watched. Why it is so patchy is an interesting question.

      A few more red, not only yellow, cards would not have come amiss.

      FIFA has put some American woman in charge of sorting out the female ref mess — unless I am mixing her up with someone else.

    • #1Fan

      Burning speed? Is that the ingredient that was missing ? I don’t think so

      • CED

        The lineup was all wrong to start with Cousins and Jean(a RB who was playing right MF), but despite that the only time North Korea was really under pressure was with Watt. Her energy and speed backed off their defender pushing up and they feared her b/c she blew by them several times and provided more service than anyone else did all game for the short time she played. The foul on her was clearly intentional and was to send a message, it lead to a concussion. They wanted to rough her up, not saying they purposely wanted to give her a concussion, but it’s classic play of CB’s to rough up a forward that burned them a few times already. The ref let them get away with it. In fact 2 of the nasty elbows was by the same player and she should have been sent off.

        • Gary Diver

          Good God, this is soccer not rugby. Hitting a player from behind and giving her a concussion could destroy her future career. Why do the referees allow such reckless play? When you are deliberately attempting to hurt a player, it is not just physical soccer, it is dirty soccer.

          • rkmid71

            You mean like Wambach’s foul on Daniela? This has been happening for awhile now on all sides.

          • Gary Diver

            If referees don’t give out yellow cards and in some cases red cards, the physically fouling gets worse and worse. Players will do what they think they can get away with. Look at Canadians Kadeisha Buchanan and Melissa Tancredi. They tend to push legal hits until the refs tell them with cards that it is not o.k. to hurt somebody.

          • rkmid71

            Yep. But they’re not the only ones. I think everyone agrees WoSo refs aren’t great overall. FIFA apparently is working to improve it. They’ve hired someone to lead a task force. In the meantime, it is what it is. Therefore, the policing will be among players on the field. An eye for an eye. Like in hockey. Hopefully that tempers the physicality as retaliation is always a possibility. We may not like it, but it’s the reality and no team is innocent. In youth soccer, I’ve actually witnessed hair pulled and punches thrown. Kicks in the back of the legs. Literally goons running out repeatedly fouling. It’s win at all costs and its usually the bigger, more physical, less skilled team getting frustrated. It’s their way of competing.

          • Steglitz49

            Brazil is nasty too in WoSo and gets away with it presumably because of their brand-name.

          • CED

            The ref was poor all game, a bunch of mystery calls and bewildering non calls. She lost control of the game IMO by the end, as North Korea really felt they could get away with anything and did. The girl that hit Watt didn’t even get a yellow. I watched the Eurosport broadcast and they were all over the ref for letting these fouls go unpunished. They were actually all over all game. They were also harsh on US tactics, player selection, etc…It’s enjoyable watching a game from non US perspective on occasion to hear foreign commentators take.

          • Gary Diver

            It is good to hear a non-American perspective, especially if the commentators are knowledgable, honest, and don’t hold back when they see bad things happening.

      • Ethan

        Not specifically burning speed, but Watt having to come off was big for North Korea. The US was on the ascendancy before having to go down to 10 players in stoppage time of regulation, and extra time would have been better for the US with Watt in the game.

        • #1Fan

          i understand this desire to cling to things that may have won the US the game, but is it not concerning to you that the USA is bemoaning the lack of pace to win a game? A game we had 90 mins to win? A game we were, lets be honest, lucky to still be in?

          • Ethan

            I don’t really get the constant use of the word “lucky”. When you end up using it so often, is it really “lucky”? North Korea bossed the game, but a lot of their dangerous moments came more from the US’ inability to properly clear the ball and their ability to get in each other’s way rather than from great combination play. Plus, North Korea’s goals ultimately came from a fortunate hand ball and pretty subpar goalkeeping. The US’ play was concerning throughout the tournament; that doesn’t change the fact that Watt having to come off helped North Korea win. It also doesn’t change the fact that Watt had to come off because of arguably dirty, intentional play from a North Korean defender. (I do know that Watt was pretty aggressive herself, but certainly not at the level of those elbows on her, Pugh, and Sanchez.)

          • #1Fan

            These countries have been physically intimidated by the US for years. Guess what, no more. Its time for the US to elevate their soccer game to the level of these countries. The one edge they had is no longer there. When are we going to wake up and start to address it?

            Now, Did Murphy make other great saves? Subpar goalkeeping is a dumb comment. She gambled on the goal and lost. She made other top class saves that would not fall under the subpar category.

            Tbh, the result is of secondary concern. The fact the the USA were outplayed by every country they faced except NZ is the issue at hand. If you want to look for excuses/reasons why they may have beaten NK . ok..but I consider that to be avoiding the real issue.

          • Ethan

            Murphy made one top class save the entire tournament, the one at the end of regulation. She then made a good fingertip steal from a North Korean player in extra time. Those were the highlights of her tournament.

            It was a gamble that she was making all game, and it certainly didn’t look like good goalkeeping form. She was hesitant and waited for the ball to come to her all match, and she never looked comfortably comfortable. She also could have caught some of the deliveries that she punched. Murphy isn’t the reason why the US was so poor throughout the tournament, but she was subpar against Ghana and Mexico and had shaky moments against North Korea late in regulation and throughout extra time. Subpar goalkeeping is far from a dumb comment, and it’s somewhat ironic that you’re focusing on isolated moments like “other top class saves” when you were telling me that it was fruitless doing so in earlier comments.

          • #1Fan

            Im not. Im simply pointing out the futility if this exercise. Its stupid. You are isolating her mistake and then giving her NO credit for keeping the US in the game. On the flip side you are exalting plays made by others.

            YES ITS A FRUITLESS EXERCISE ..so I guess the point was lost on you .

          • Ethan

            If the team playing poorly was your only issue, I don’t know why you’ve gotten so worked up about this. I didn’t say Murphy was the reason the US lost; I was wondering why she didn’t close down the space. I can’t make that type of comment?

            No credit? I just said she made a top class save at the end of regulation. In my review comment on the Fishlock article, I said the same thing. I’m not isolating her mistake; you’re isolating one world class save and another good fingertip steal. If Murphy had been phenomenal throughout the tournament and her play on the North Korean goal was her only mistake, you’d be completely correct. That wasn’t the case.

            On the flip side, you’re criticizing Sanchez and Pugh for making defensive plays that they shouldn’t be making. Yet, you’re not critical by any means of a goalkeeper who was partially/completely at fault for three of the five goals the US conceded. I know I’m being harsh on Murphy, and I shouldn’t be when the poor team play was the bigger issue. But considering your evaluation of team play and certain players, I’m a little surprised at how lenient you are in this case. I suppose that’s a good thing. I’ll learn from that.

          • #1Fan

            Im not criticizing them.Im just not fawning over them like you and others seem to do win lose or draw, Im not critical of any of them really. I think you need to go back and read. it is a collective failure. Picking out individual highlights and lowlights is pure opinion and preference. The one thing I would like to see people disagree on is that the team did not play well.

          • Ethan

            You told me not to praise Sanchez for doing something she shouldn’t be doing. “Doing something she shouldn’t be doing” sounds very critical.

            Right, collective failure. I did say I was surprised that you had such an indifferent opinion towards Murphy’s play when you’ve been so critical of team play.

            “The one thing I would like to see people disagree on is that the team did not play well.” You want to see disagreement there? Well, everyone thinks the team did not play well. So, we have full agreement there.

            Agree to disagree.

          • #1Fan

            yes. taking a sentence out of context to make a point is kinda pointless. So lets just leave it.

          • Ethan

            Well, you pretty much did that for my comment on Murphy’s goalkeeping. So agreed on leaving it.

          • Steglitz49

            They reached the SF where they lost to one of the favorites by the narrowest of margin. How bad is that?

          • #1Fan

            Another Great JC quote

            We must make sure their worst players get the ball the most. You’ll get it back in no time.

            Maybe that was the NK plan

      • Gary Diver

        Ally Watt has burning speed, but more importantly was an effective player in this tournament. French said she wants players who could be game changers to come off the bench. Why would you not start a player who is effective when your starting roster has players who are not effective?

        • #1Fan

          Did I not tell you all this before the event even started ?

          #1Fan kernel_thai 4 days ago

          do you remember when i was actually posting some “inside” stuff on the YNT set up ? Well if you do, I did tell you they have a position called IMPACT PLAYER. That player is usually very athletic and brought on to change the game. Its part of their master plan 🙂

          I believe this was at least the third time I posted, but i can’t be bothered to go back and find the first time. I would have been pre the U17 WC. My point is, do you really thinks its a co-incidence that I know what they plan to do?

          The people in charge honestly have very little idea. They focus on all these things and miss the main point. Select eleven players who complement each other an play well as a team.

          • Gary Diver

            During OG16, I felt Ellis was incompetent in her choices and decisions. I feel similar about Michelle French who apparently was appointed by Ellis.

            For the life of me I don’t see why French didn’t start Watt. With an inept midfield, North Korea could bottle up USWNT. With Watt in the game, North Korea had to lay back somewhat which makes a big difference when you are having trouble getting the back into the final third. Watt was able to open up play in the other games she played and scored two goals. Why wait until the 70th minute to bring in an “impact player”? As you say, why not put together 11 players who complement each other and play like a team with a common purpose.

            This has been discussed before, but I also cannot understand why French could not find more effective players in the midfield than Cousins and Scarpa.

          • HOFCToDi

            Not even a close comparison.

            Match: USWNT vs. Sweden
            Date: 12 August 2016
            Competition: 2016 Olympic Games, Quarterfinal

            ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/tournaments/2016-olympic-games/160812-wntvswe#tab-1

            Shot Attempts
            USA 27 SWE 6

          • #1Fan

            The RS thing was certainly a factor, but I keep repeating myself. We should have many more players of quality to chose from and it should be more about what style we want to play than a lack of players. Im sure all the players selected are good, but there is a big difference between good team and good players. I was and remain dead against Pugh and Sanchez double shifting. Sends the wrong message to the kids who gave up a College season. It basically says, we are going to need to parachute in these players. We need help, you guys are not good enough. You have hit it though. To me, its coaching. We are not setting up our players for success.

  • DM

    The problem is Jill, BJ, April, Michelle shouldn’t even have the jobs they have. All of them suck as coaches.

    • Steglitz49

      What sensible capable college coach would give up that rewarding job to come and coach U17 or U20? The seniors, maybe.

      • Gary Diver

        Good point. Somebody recently made the comment, on another site, than more 15-25 year-old women play organized soccer in the US than the rest of the world. I assume that is hyperbole, but there must be some statistics about how many US women play at the high school and college levels.

        It may be true that WoSo will never be a popular commercial sport in the US and maybe it will only be a niche sport. Still, with the millions of 15-25 year-old girls playing the sports, Americans deserve better with USSF and its coaches.

        • Steglitz49

          Emma Hayes coached in the US, including Chicago, but she is best known for her work at Chelsea Ladies.

          I understand that it is difficult to lure a college coach away to the U17 or U20 but maybe the USSF could buy in some quality coach who has stepped down? For the U17 that should be possible.

  • Guest

    Mallory Pugh is nothing special without Lloyds, Heaths, Brians, Morgans.

    • Steglitz49

      She had all those by her side in Brasilia but the US still went home to an early bath (in spite of all the help from the ref crew).

    • Fred

      Pretty much. She looks good on seniors because they all get the attention and not her. No surprise she has never won anything without them.

      • Gary Diver

        Too much attention in WoSo is placed on forwards and not enough on the midfield. A great midfield will make any forward look better. The USWNT has a midfield problem at all levels.

        • Steglitz49

          There are no goals in mdifield. The goals are at either end of the pitch.

      • rkmid71

        So far, she’s never won anything with them either (i.e. OG16). Though she has looked better when she’s not the focus. On USWNT, other teams initially gave her a lot of space (focusing on others more) and underestimated her. I think the competition has more or less corrected that situation at this point.

      • CED

        OMG The clueless brigade in full force. Try watching a U20 game. Pugh has to be the play maker and the goal scorer for U20. The midfield is horrible so she has to come back to even try to win the ball. When she does that there is nobody to pass to b/c the midfield is incredible poor and if she passes to the Fwd since she dropped to get the ball they are 3 vs 1. Also, the coach is clueless in how the team was set up. They played 5 defenders, 4 back and then a defender ar right MF that was hopeless in attack and making a single pass. Cousins is a disaster at CM, giving the ball away and unable to link simple passes.

        Also, as poor as they played they should have won but for the referee, who even exceeded the normally poor level of WoSo. 3 blatant intentional elbows the head of US players, 1 causing a concussion (Wattt) and another possibly on Pugh, as she was clearly wobbling when she stood up and her eyes looked dazed on the close up. Then there was the horrible handball call, which was not a hand ball. The player blocked the ball with her left foot via sliding tackle and then bounced of her foot to her hand. In no way a handball when somebody is taking a full blown shot and it comes off a deflection off your foot to your hand.

        • sudeep das

          We are outnumbered on this forum I think. Trying to say for the past 2 months that the support cast needs to be right for a player like Pugh to reach full potential. Asking her to play in this U20 WC was not right for her development with the senior WNT and its new incumbents.

          • John

            That is what they’re saying she looks better with better players. DOH. She go end line and cross ball to people that can finish without having 2-3 defenders on her. You do this because Lloyd, Morgan, Press demand defenders to cover them which allows Mallory go 1v1.

          • Vinny

            She is not Lebron James who can make average players look good. She’s a good player that does well when next other good players.

          • Steglitz49

            Don’t be mean. Please make comparisons to WoSo players.

            Not everyone can be Marta or Sawa or Seger.

          • Bill

            Watch Alex Morgan without NT players. She is not special. You could say same thing about all of them. What does Morgan Brian do for Houston? Nothing special.

          • Steglitz49

            Alex Morgan has the campaign medals.

          • guest

            Christen Press was only that dominated and won games solely for her club team. Tobin had a great year but she plays with national team caliber players.

          • Steglitz49

            Que?!?

          • guest

            Press also had zero assists the entire season despite playing as a midfielder much of the time. I’m not sure if that is a good thing.

          • CED

            It’s not “demanding defenders”, the U20 players aren’t going unmarked. The problem is they have no MF. You can have the greatest forwards and they look pedestrian with a poor playing MF. Look at Barca since Iniesta got hurt, they still have Messi. Suarez, Neymar and they have been relegated to once in a blue moon attacks b/c the MF is getting dominated without Iniesta and without him they also lose the play maker. Barca without Iniesta are 1/4 of the team and that’s from a Barca fan. He is the 1 irreplaceable player. Literally I would rather have anyone of MSN out than Iniesta b/c he controls the entire game. The team is completely out of sorts without him, Busquets tries to pick up the slack and then gets out of position, which leads to a cascade effect. The MF matters more than most people acknowledge. Now, back to U20, the team created like 5 chances all game and all but 1 was an individual moment by a single player b/c the MF was so poor and provided no service, creativity, or even support. The same lack of MF quality play is why the Senior WNT struggles against well organized and/or technical teams. Currently nobody in the pool has it, Sullivan showed glimpses but against weak competition and now she tore her ACL.

          • Steglitz49

            Please demonstrate your in depth knowledge of WoSo by mentioning some females of the species. They are deadlier than the males.

          • CED

            Please go away and find a Sweden forum. Your stupidity is tiresome and I am sick of embarrassing you daily. There is no Woso comparison b/c there is no team with a dominant MF and forwards that changed to illustrate the point. US MF sucks, Japan MF but no great forwards, Germany the same, etc…WoSO club is unwatcheable garbage played at eve poorer level than international…The supposed best WNT loses to U15 boys team in blowouts like 7-2

          • Steglitz49

            If you want to compare with Barca you might as well compare to the Golden Generation, whose game is similar, but I doubt you know their names.

          • CED

            Go away clown I was going to USWNT and MNT games 30 years ago. You show your stupidity daily and are proud of it. Btw, no they didn’t play possession based game, but you’re not smart enough to know that.

          • Steglitz49

            30 years ago? Before the Berlin wall fell. Why on earth? WC-86 is known for a certain player cheating boxing the ball into the goal. Not persuaded that that is a good model for WoSo in the second decade of the 3rd Millennium.

          • Steglitz49

            It was Pugh’s duty and must have been her joy to help her U20 colleagues do as well as possible.

            Players in Germany and Sweden, who could have played in this U20 WC, were not able to because their clubs needed them for the ladies Champions League. Ms Pugh could redshirt; they could not.

          • jdee26

            A lot of misguided information in your post. Neither Pugh nor Sanchez could have changed the outcome of the game. Any soccer player or informed fan knows soccer is the ultimate team sport.Try to do too much and run out of gas sooner or later.

          • Steglitz49

            Red-shirting is, as I understand it, usually a means to be a 5th year senior.

            Here the US demanded red-shirting while Mexico made no such demand on their college players. Monica played for ND but not Sabrina. Maybe it made a difference in the end? Without the red-shirts maybe they would have gone out sooner, like lost to Mexico. We shall never know.

          • CED

            Pugh had to play in U20’s. You can’t leave a 18yr old and best player in the U system out of the roster. What many people don’t seem to realize is that it’s a team game with 11 players. Pugh can’t do everything. The tactics and line up were all wrong IMO. Knowing you have a weaker MF, than you flood the MF with 5 to compete instead of getting dominated like they did. Drop Pugh into CAM, which would have probably allowed her to get on the ball more and have more support near her when she got the ball.

          • Steglitz49

            Most WoSo fans get that it is a game of 12 players. The media only know the names of two.

          • #1Fan

            Really? So how do you make the supporting cast better? By giving the same fools more time? Mate you are all over the place on this issue. Make up your mind.

    • q

      No kidding. Easy look good with Alex Morgan, Christen Press, Tobin Heath, Morgan Brian, Crystal Dunn, Carli Lloyd drawing all the defenders.

    • jdee26

      Soccer is a team sport; meaningful wins are few if you can rely on only a couple of players.Technical skills, organisation and discipline are basic requirements for successful teams.All these qualities have been lacking in US developmental soccer leagues.

  • Paul Klee

    If you want technical players, then call up technical players even if they don’t give you the best chance of winning. What that’ll do is force the development of technical players at lower levels.

    • Steglitz49

      College scholarship trumps that. Money talks.

  • Gary Diver

    Pugh and Sanchez

    Too much focus is on these players. This U20 team got manhandled by Japan 5-0 back in May and then went scoreless in 3 matches during their tune-up NTC Invitational Tournament in September. (They also didn’t score a goal in their first group play game against France.) I saw segments of the NTC games and the passing out of the midfield by USWNT was simply awful. As I’ve said before, USWNT has a midfield problem and a coaching problem. A good midfield makes everybody else look good, but even Mia Hamm wouldn’t look great with a poor midfield.

    • Steglitz49

      France have reached the final by beating Japan and Germany so drawing 0-0 with France looks like a fair achievement.

  • Ashley C

    Until technical skill and possession is worked on and developed better in the youth stages, US Soccer might continue to struggle in this area. And that goes for both the men’s and women’s development. Often the football looks uninspired and little creativity.

    • Bruce

      When you say “in this area” you mean “all over the pitch”, right? 😉

  • Gary Diver

    Where are the statistics?

    I don’t recall ever seeing any statistics for U20 passing and quality shots during the past year. A soccer match is greater than the sum of its components, but the components must count for something. How can one improve the technical skills and possession unless one knows what the current baseline is? Do we even know who are the good passers and who are the poor passers on the current U20 roster?

    • rkmid71

      I would bet the house that those detailed stats by player and for the team in these games compared to the competition would be embarrassing. Well at least in North Korea game. I didn’t see the others.

      • #1Fan

        They have all the stats. They will never release them.

        • Bruce

          Won’t FIFA compile and release stats for a WC event?

          • #1Fan

            At a macro level maybe. Every game the USSF have detailed player numbers. Im saying those will never be released.

          • Steglitz49
          • Bruce

            Thanks Steg. These are useful, but I was hoping to find more detailed player stats like you can find for the EPL, MLS and even Australian W-League. That’s where the real story is told.

            http://www.w-league.com.au/matchcentre/Western-Sydney-Wanderers-Women-v-Brisbane-Roar-FC-Women/888648

          • Steglitz49

            I agree but it is hard to find them for WoSo. I guess there is not the demand or someone can’t be bothered to pay for them to be made public. Maybe it has to do with betting?

          • #1Fan

            they are youth games. they are complied by USSF staff and used for evaluation purposes.

          • Steglitz49

            Was there betting and odds on this game? or any of this U20 WC games?

            If yes, then someone must have adjusted the odds as the tournament went along. Maybe they did it on a hunch.

          • rkmid71

            Most definitely that’s where the story is told. It tells you who’s doing what in all phases of the game, how efficiently or effectively. Many if not most colleges either do it themselves or contract out. I doubt we’ll ever see them, because it becomes to personal to the individual players and youth level they probably don’t want to disclose. Now for the USWNT or pros, I don’t know why they wouldn’t … unless it’s for competitive reasons.

    • Steglitz49

      The only stats that matter are the bottom line: 2-1.

    • The Oracle

      🇺🇸 25 shots to 7!!! My word. #U20WWC pic.twitter.com/ELFzMR5SbS— WoSo Comps (@WoSoComps) November 29, 2016

    • Steglitz49

      Collective stats are available on FIFA’s web-site. Individual? I have not the foggiest.

    • The Oracle
  • jdee26

    KOREAN HEADACHE FOR MICHELLE FRENCH’S ‘GUTS’, AMERICAN ‘SPIRIT’ & ‘WILL’ POWER SOCCER……….

    Well, Michelle French just learned that American spirit can only take you this far in soccer. And that, there is no substitute for skill,discipline and technical capability in soccer.The Korea game only highlighted problems facing US youth soccer today: need to identify coaches who teach technical skill, tactics and discipline.

    • rkmid71

      She needs to study and learn from the martial arts masters:

      “Talk is easy – ACTION is difficult. Action is easy – TRUE UNDERSTANDING is difficult!” You’re right. You need technique and spirit. One without the other is insufficient.

  • VaFan51

    If it keeps happening, it’s no fluke.
    At the 2014 U-20 WC, Michelle French gushed about how much more technical and organized the team was. But no…. they were quickly eliminated. And here we are in 2016 and it’s deja vu all over again. In between those two big international tournaments, the U20’s failed to even score in multiple friendlies.
    You certainly could make a case that the US U-20’s were significantly outplayed in every 2016 WC match but one (New Zealand) and, again, French has been talking about how great things have been going.
    I am absolutely not one of those people who bays for the coach’s head at the first sign of disappointment, but if French still has her job in 2017, then we are looking down the barrel of a long dark period for US woso. The hair-trigger defense of a tournament crash is that we are focusing on development, not just won-lost records. Fair enough, but anyone who knows anything about soccer could see that our team was outplayed technically, tactically, and physically (!) in nearly every match in New Guinea.

    Let me be clear — this is not the players’ fault. I feel completely confident that these women have the drive to perform and a hunger to improve in the sport they love. But they absolutely are not getting the leadership they deserve.
    i am really tired of hearing soothing noises from USSoccer. Is anybody in those self-satisfied corridors going to actually do something to right this ship?

    • Steglitz49

      They did reach the SF where they lost by the narrowest of margins against one of the favorites.

      Jolly good show, I would say.

    • #1Fan

      I agree but I will also add that the youth system is being propped up by this false perception that we have produced the 2 best youth players in the world. We have not. Both are good, but there are many great youth prospects on show. The self satisfied comes from that and the soccer public at large allowing them to get away with it

      • CED

        Of all the players on U20 maybe a handful will ever even capped for full NT. There are surely people not on U20 Wcup roster that very well will be capped. They had 30+ players in games for u20 this year. A different coach likely would have picked some different players. There were some questions about some of the roster choices especially MF lack of play making, creativity, etc.. Some of the players not picked will surely blossom in college and some picked will prove to be mediocre and exit the U system. A lot happens in that 18-22yr old time frame. Most players who got away with poor technical ability in HS or even as frosh in college get exposed and their stock drops.

        The true debate which has been had before is whether there actually is a coherent system, which develops a certain type of player, etc…across the U system and to the full NT. Japan, Germany, etc…have it so for example while Japan before 2016 has only 1 top 4 finish in U20 they really aren’t concerned about U20’s b/c they are developing the type of players for the full NT.

        • Steglitz49

          There is on average less than a 10% chance of a member of a U20 squad getting into the USWNT but in years when the team winns the probability is closer to 20% with time.

          The lifecycle of a USWNT player seems to be 10-15 years. Thus, on average, one new player can expect to be added to the First XI each year and maybe 2, max 3, to a whole camp of 30.

          The U20 WC comes around every 2 years. Thus, in a 4 year cycle there are 2 U20s and ina 4 year cycle the USWNT might have 4 new players in their standard XI and maybe 8-12 in camp. 4 out of 42 is less than 10% based on the squads being 21.

          Of the U20 2008, Alex and Syd made it into the NT reasonably quickly and eventually Klings and Naeher, while Ingrid Wells and Keelin Winters didn’t. Of the 2012 U20 Julie Johnston and Moe Brian made it quickly but Crystal Dunn had to wait a year for the Veterans satisfaction, and a number are still hoping.

      • Steglitz49

        It would be interesting to know the viewing figures for this SF. Granted it is a U20 World Cup but the US were playing for a place in the final. Did 10,000 watch it live? Any advances of 10,000?

    • Tom F

      I thought making it to the semis was a mighty good showing! Except for Pugh & Sanchez, how do we know that these were the best u20 players in the country? Isn’t the NCAA tournament going on right now? Would college coaches actually give up their top players for weeks, maybe months to prepare & play in this tournament?

      • VaFan51

        I concede that a few players were “lost” to the college season and playoffs, but nearly all coaches, if not all, allowed players to make their own decisions.
        A much greater concern is the ability of the USSoccer coaching empire to identify the players to comprise the best team for this competition. Mexico, I believe, had 10 players born in the US on their roster, only two of which I had ever heard of and only one of which has played for a noteworthy college soccer program, and yet they totally outplayed the US team for 85+ minutes. At least one of their starters had been “cut” from the US U-20 selection process.

        So, a related concern is how the coaching staff melded the players they wanted into the team they envisioned. What they produced was a team less disciplined and less technical and less dynamic than nearly all their opponents. I understand that our group was together for a considerably shorter time than teams from some countries where this age group has virtually lived and trained together for years. I get that.

        But we’ve been hearing for several years how our youth teams are turning a corner in the sophistication of play and technical skills, etc. when the evidence in front of our eyes is that no such development has kicked in yet.

        Nobody can doubt that our players play their hearts out, even when an opponent indulges in the most cynical brand of dangerous play. Words like “valiant” and “resilient” are not out of place. But it’s the adults, these players’ teachers and their superiors farther up the USSoccer hierarchy, who are letting the players down.
        Once the team gets home, and maybe even before then, the individual players are going to be confronted with criticism from all sorts of folks (including anonymous no-nothings on the Internet, such as yours truly). Again, it should be the responsibility of the adults/coaches to get out in front, to be forthright and substantive in explaining what happened. In short, they need to deflect blame away from the teenagers. I would love to hear what the coaches — and, ideally, the USSoccer higher-up’s (a fanciful dream) — think they should have done differently. If they sound pretty satisfied with how things went, it might time for serious weeping. If they sound pretty satisfied, that is telling the players their play in this tournament is the best they can be.

        I believe Michelle French is already on record as saying something like getting to a semi-final is a “benchmark” for the program. There’s nothing inherently horrible about that statement, unless you get to the semi’s while playing pretty mediocre/ugly soccer. When that happens, talk about “development” just sounds like an attempt to change the subject.

        • #1Fan

          Heinrichs said that and if you read her post U17 interview then you already know they are satisfied.

        • #1Fan

          the minute they fired highly qualified people and replaced them with these you knew you were in trouble. Tambi got results and developed players so why is he not involved ? Because politics gets in the way.

          • guest

            Agree. I really liked Kazbek Tambi, especially when he coached the 2010 U17 team. That team he coached and developed that year, I felt was like one of the best US women’s youth teams that specifically played a really nice brand of possession soccer, even though they didn’t qualify and lost to Canada on penalties. Also Steve Swanson for the 2012 U20 team as well. Out of all the youth coaches over the years, Tambi and Swanson, I felt were the two best youth coaches the truly sought to implement a highly technical and sophisticated brand of soccer, as evidenced on the field with their respective teams.

      • Bruce

        You realize that USSF asked players to sit out the entire 2016 college season so that they would have unlimited access to them? Few declined.

        http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer-articles/u20-wc-to-leave-mark-on-2016-college-season_aid39222

        • Steglitz49

          They are looking towards getting their snouts into the USWNT gravy troughs. Planning for the future.

      • Steglitz49

        Verily. Sweden were missing 5 players and Germany players too because of the ladies Champions League.

    • Barca Rondo

      Truth complete truth, all i want for Christmas is a Michelle French firing along with the u 23 coach as well. That U washington coach. she is retarted also and one of her garbage players snuck onto this team also. because French is her friend so it’s friends hooking friends up & they all need the AX, it’s not fair to the few good players on this team like Pugh,Sanchez, & Emily Fox

  • Anson

    It first starts on Defense! Take a look at the finishing attack by DPR provided by Ann Odong above. Look at the positioning of the US players! Click on the movement of the US Players …….they are chasing! At this level that should never happen. Speed kills and the Korean players are just to fast to defend especially in this formation. At one point it looks like the US is playing a 3-4. Who is tracking back on the left side? The one v one defense is awful and the Goalie is so low the easy shot was over her head! Basic fundamentals, Basic positioning and Basic Defended would have stopped this score! “Coaching”…… thats an understatement!
    As I commented earlier I didn’t believe this group of players had the ability to win the tournament. I was wrong in believing they would have been ousted in the 2nd round. The good ole USA never die attitude got them this far. But I still believe there were other/better players who should have/could have helped this team WIN the World Cup. Because of political attitudes they will never find out! You will see in next years draft !

    • Steglitz49

      What is your solution? That they hire Lars Lagerbäck?

    • jdee26

      Quite right! American defender on the left should have moved closer to the Korean player on the left wing but collapsed inside exposing the left flank. Worse, secondary defender far removed from ball to pose any serious challenge. Perhaps, the team was out of gas after spending the whole afternoon chasing the Koreans. Gaps appear in the defense when fatigue
      sets in.

  • jdee26

    NO SURPRISE: US SOCCER AT CROSSROADS……..LESSONS LEARNED?

    1. So-called ‘American will power’ not enough reason to win. Only possible against less sophisticated opponents.
    2. American developmental soccer needs to transition from direct, long ball style to technical, ball possession soccer.
    3.Need coaches who can identify technical players who fit the system. Many Mexican American players on the Mexican team exhibit these qualities yet were never invited to camp.
    4. Talent scouting should be expanded beyond the suburbs. More often than not the lesser socio-economic enclaves produce more technical players. Great Brazilian soccer players came from less privileged backgrounds.
    5. Hire full time coaches and staff for all levels of soccer development.
    6.Need to develop midfield talent.

    • Steglitz49

      Where is the money coming for these fine proposals? Please feel free to write USSF a check for the needful.

      • Stray Cat

        The money is needed to feed those poor second class citizens

      • jdee26

        Former coach, Jurgen Klinsman was paid in excess of $2m a year. Half of his salary could have funded these needs given his record.

        • Steglitz49

          That money is gone.

          It may well not have been smart to hire JK but it probably like a good thing when they did.

        • CED

          Could one of you actually read the AGM and see the money they spend on U system. I have read the reports and money is not a problem!

          • Steglitz49

            Just give us the figures.

          • CED

            Educate yourself once in your life. Read the AGM…It’s wilful ignorance not to do so b/c it tells you all about USSF and is referenced all the time on here by people who value facts, not you and your ilk.

          • Steglitz49

            Manners maketh man.

    • CED

      Do you even know how much USSF spends on U programs? Hint money isn;t a problem, so the hire FT coaches, staffs, etc…is nonsense.

      Transition of style of play is cultural partially b/c that’s coaches teach and play the style they learned for the most part. If you watch youth games, HS, College they all overwhelmingly play a direct style of play. The reason is partly it’s easier to coach and the fastest, biggest, toughest usually wins.Also, to teach technical soccer tales time which is not always available when your coaching HS, Youth, college, etc… Second, possession based soccer has been frowned upon by most in the US as being boring, which is changing slowly. If you learn the game from non american coaches as I did, you learn that is the proper way to play. The more foreign coaches from culture that play more possession, like from Spain,etc… will help that. Kids who grow up watching and admiring more European clubs like Barca, Bayern, etc..will want to play that style and think it’s “cool. ” . Americans in general and traditionally like the more helter skelter direct play over the nuance of possession.

      The point which is made on “beyond the suburbs talent scouting” neglects the fact that most inner city kids want to play basketball, run track, etc… Soccer is not the sport on their radar. The kids that live in the city that play soccer from lower socio economic background are usually latino. Culturally they are drawn to soccer b/c their parents, grandparents, etc,,, introduced them to the game and it’s on tv in their homes. The other group of kids that play soccer that live in the city are wealthier white kids. You can’t compare Brazil to the US b/c soccer in Brazil is like basketball or football in the US.

      • rkmid71

        Teaching technical takes time. Which means it has to start at youngest ages with ball skills and first touch. For a team to play that way, you can’t really have many weak links and need trust among players. Or the weak links get assigned to play in forward position where losing the ball and making bad decisions aren’t as dangerous. There are youth teams that have good coaches and have trained that way for a long time. I’ve seen them. And those teams have players that are good enough athletes. Yet they don’t get selected. It’s all what you prioritize in player selection.

        • CED

          Of course they exist, they are however are not the norm in most youth programs. The fact is youth clubs, etc.,,,have just in the last decade put real emphasis on coaching certification, etc.

          Like I said in another post, the selection of players is 1 coaches and the fact they had 30+ people in the U20’s this year means there was uncertainty. There were also many opinions on the selections and the lack of creative MF’s, a play maker, etc.. The fact is only a few if any of these players will be capped and players not o U20 will surely show themselves via college. Some of the u20 selections will be busts in college, that’s how U works. it’s one coaches selection . I’m not overly concerned with U20 or U17 results over a coherent USS system. Japan has had poor U20 results historically but sincec they teach a system thru the U program, they still develop the talent for the full NT. That’s the true discussion IMO. Is there a coherent system and the type of player they want to develop.

          • rkmid71

            I think the answer is NO on coherent system. Or if they do it’s invisible to the outside world or isn’t yet reflected by the play on the field. AH stated they are “trying to redefine the type of player they want to develop.” That seems to be an acknowledgement that the type of players they have been developing hasn’t worked out as planned. Or they have spent so much time on a certain group of players, they can’t now quickly change course. Like trying to turn around the Titanic.

      • jdee26

        Mexican American players on the Mexican team exhibited superior technical skills than most players on the American squad but were never invited to camp. Missed that fact?

        • Steglitz49

          Indeed.

      • Guest

        If you as me they are spending way too much on youth development. I believe it’s close to 10 million or more they spend on youth development a year with no real monetary return. I haven’t seen any evidence of it producing in the way of better soccer players either for men or women. All of the best soccer players had to develop the majority their skills with training outside of the U system.

        • CED

          There is a return. Any U system in any country will only produce maybe 2. 3. or max often 4 people on any U20, U17 Wcup team that will ever make full NT. U system is a game of numbers at International or even club level. Look at La Masia, of the kids that make it thru all levels of La Masia and then to the B team how many actually make Barca senior squad? It’s literally like 10% percent of B team that ever star for Barca. it’s a game of numbers where in a 5 yr period of players which will be 100 players you produce a handful of players.

          • Guest

            We aren’t talking about the U system in any other country we are talking about the U system in this one. In this country youth club soccer is where all the player development happens and it’s paid for by parents. Maybe all this spending will pay off sometime in the future but to this point it has not and there is a very real chance that it does not pay off. La Masia is not comparable to the US Soccer youth system at all. American and Spanish soccer cultures are completely different.

          • rkmid71

            The parent spending pays off for some in terms of college scholarships. I don’t think most are thinking that much about NT — if it happens, it happens. It seems to be a lot of being in right place, right time and having a strong connected advocate. It’s common knowledge the academic scholarship $ dwarf athletic.However, regardless of college, NT or whatever, these kids learn a lot of life lessons in the whole process. That can be worth its weight in gold if the lessons are learned.

          • Guest

            I understand. I am questioning why US Soccer continues to spend 10 million plus a year on youth development when it’s pretty clear to me that the returns are minimal. I’d argue that the Mallory Pughs of the country will still be identified by colleges from youth clubs. The U NTs seem like a glorified youth clubs that travel and spend money will little return. In terms of senior team selection, the few selected to those U clubs seem to have a foot in the door over those who weren’t identified early enough or weren’t selected for the U teams.

          • rkmid71

            It’s a good question. You wonder whether they could reduce the spend on U NTs and increase in scouting and maybe compensate youth coaches who develop players ultimately selected to NTs.

          • CED

            The point was not comparing that even in great systems you really only get a couple of players over a multi yr span. The U system has produced a couple of technical players among their younger players on WNT. People seem to be expecting a bunch in a short period. I was commenting on that’s just not the way development systems really work. Out of any U Wcup squad you will produce 1 player usually 2 or 3 if you get really lucky.

          • Guest

            Why do you think those players won’t still be identified without the U system? I’d argue that players like Pugh and Sanchez would have had no trouble being identified and getting scholarships without the U NT experience. I’d also argue that the majority of their development as players happened with their ECNL clubs. From a business perspective, the U system offers very little in way of monetary return, at least for the US youth teams. I don’t think it’s necessary to create stars either.

          • CED

            Never said players won’t be identified without U system. I said several times in different posts a U Wcup squad and a U system over 4 yr period or age bracket will only at most produce a 1 or 2 players, 3 if your fortunate for full NT. I went to this before it’s a game of numbers and hoping to hit a jackpot on a handful of players.

          • Guest

            My argument is that the youth clubs(PDA, Real Colorado, ect…) produce and develop those 1,2, or 3 players not the U system. I think those clubs would continue to produce players without U tournaments which are essentially international showcases.

        • Steglitz49

          Is it 10 million on the ladies or 10 million on both sexes combined? If it is combined, the split is likely to be 8 to the boys and 2 to the girls if not 9 to 1.

    • HOFCToDi

      Pay-to-Play is a symptom, not the problem itself

      topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/06/pay-to-play-is-a-symptom-not-the-problem-itself/

  • Jean Perroni

    The USsoccer panel better reconsider they way they run football if they want a brighter future.
    Women football is evolving. Being taller, stronger or jumping higher is not enough to win tournament at bigger stage anymore. You need better ball handling and basic technical skills, things that this current USA u20 and u17 team lack. USA played simply awful football: bad touches, bad passes, long passes hopping for lucky bounce. Well that might work before but it s not the future. New Zealand, Canada, maybe Sweden played almost the same style and you see how far they came. USA had the edge physically compared to those nations thats why they came further in this tournament.

    May I also mention that the current french u20 team that won u17 WC 3 years ago is the begining of something big for France. They are fearless, technically gifted and also physical. They don t have complex like their senior sisters. They beat Germany and Japan to face NK in the final. Spain surprised me as well.

    • Steglitz49

      Sweden was missing 5 players who was part of the team that won 2015 Euros for U19, including their captain and vice-captain. Sweden had the misfortune of an incompetent and biased ref in the critiical match against Brazil.

      As for New Zealand, not too many people live there. Canada is more of a mystery though.

      • HOFCToDi

        SWE experienced the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

        Steglitz49 is a blithering idiot, a clueless moron, and a worthless troll.

    • anon

      Sorry but youth results are not indicative of senior team success. I predict the USWNT to continue to dominate the senior level because of more investment and a deeper player pool. Other teams simply aren’t matching the USA in physicality and fitness, which yes, starts to matter more with age. Our players also peak later in their physical prime because they aren’t playing professionally in their teen years.

      • Steglitz49

        Tobin Heath was 19 when she first played for the USWNT seniors and ARod was 18, while Mallory Pugh was about that age too.

        • anon

          this has nothing to do with anything. they aren’t playing in professional leagues as their primary job at 17 like a lot of European players are. occasional WNT appearances /= professional career.

          • Guest

            This is basically why USA sucks at youth level… they are primarily playing with other youth, not professional clubs.

          • Steglitz49

            OG-08 final the US beat Brazil; WC-11 final, Japan prevailed over the US; OG-12 the US beat Japan and WC-15 the US beat Japan.

            Where are all those Europeans?

            In OG-16 the US bombed out against Sweden. In some ways it is a statistical outlier but they had had trouble playing Sweden for the last 5 years, just it was always in a group game, thank goodness.

          • Guest

            Exactly…. where are all those Europeans? I assume English isn’t your first language which is why you come off as trolling a lot of the time. Or you just like to troll.

          • TrollWorld

            you are giving him too much credit

          • Steglitz49

            Trolls of the World: unite!

          • CED

            He’s just a troll!

          • Steglitz49

            as judged by C E Droll

          • Steglitz49

            I don’t follow you but never mind.

            The fact that both German and Swedish clubs did not release players for this U20 WC tells you that there are good young players in Europe. French clubs released (some of) theirs. In the U17 Spain, Germany and England represented EU.

          • ich sprechen kein Deutsch

            I like to call it the “Sundhage Effect”. This year’s German gold medal team was the worst team I’ve ever seen win a major tournament.

          • HOFCToDi

            SWE experienced the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

            SWE has proven to be frauds based upon the U-17 (failed to qualify) and U-20 results.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_UEFA_Women%27s_Under-17_Championship

          • #1Fan

            please show me all there Euro pros at 17 ?

      • Jean Perroni

        Maybe youth results are not always indicative of senior success but it is not a coincidence that the winner of the men U20 WC last 20 years were Argentina (x5), Brazil (x4), France (x1), Portugal (x2), Spain (x1), Ghana (X1), and surprising Serbia in 2015.
        If fitness equals success teams like England, New Zealand, Australia , the whole african continent would have won every WC in mens football.
        Well, mens is different than womens game but mens game is a better reference to study how football works.

        • rkmid71

          I like your last sentence. In my mind, the goal of the women’s game should be to play as close to top men’s teams as possible. Don’t set limits of what they can and can’t do because of gender. Like UConn women’s basketball team. Coach Auriemma coaches basketball players, not female basketball players and expects no less standard. As a result, they consistently dominate though arguably they have no greater talent than other top 20 college teams.

          • Jean Perroni

            I think that it s possible for women to play at the same level as men. Marta from Brazil is one exemple and there is more to come..

          • Steglitz49

            Think again.

        • Captain Baker

          There is one big difference

          The USWNT is in training camps over months while other countries national team’s are just some weeks together.

          So even if we may not have the best players any longer and our development system may not be the best anymore, we still have an huge advantage when it comes to preparation of a tournament.

          The German WNT players for example were worn out when 2015 WC started. Players had a CL final, a national cup final and a close national league finishing just some weeks before Canada 2015 started. According to what I read their main preparation was just recovery.

          We do much more for the success of our WNT. And hopefully only fair and legal.

          This advantage is not yet present with the youth teams but it will remain with the senior team

      • #1Fan

        peak later? no. To suggest that all the youth and college miles have no impact is wrong. In fact they wear you down more. More games, shorter recovery. I just think the US outlasts most nations- or has to date.

      • Paul Klee

        Agree to a certain extent all the US has to do produce One or two squad members every U20 cycle to be more than competitive internationally. But all that does is maintain the 25 woman player pool. What the US really needs is a consistent 35 to 50 player pool to draw from. To get that will take determined youth development program with less focus on squad results.

    • rkmid71

      I missed most of France Japan. But watched the 2nd OT when France was up 2-1. Though Japan was working hard and pressing for an equalizer, it never looked like France was flustered or a that Japan was really going to get a sniff. Even Japan seemed to lose a little hope, which is unlike them. France seemed like a confident, efficient team that knows they’re good and goes about its business like they know they should win. Now maybe that’s being overly generous, but I agree that this was a different vibe compared to their senior sisters.

      • Steglitz49

        Please see my reply to CED.

        • rkmid71

          Yes indeed. Success breeds success. The US and everyone else should take notice.A lot of work to be done before WC19. Lloyd will be 37. No Solo. We need to get on with the work at hand. Fast. No stat building tomato can friendlies for the old timers please.

    • CED

      U17 and U20 are not necessarily a good translation to full NT success if
      the full NT is not traditionally successful. China 2nd in 2004 and
      2006 have shown nothing special in full NT since. Nigeria was 2nd 2010,
      2014 and 4th in 2012 and they full NT is still not really very
      competitive in OG and Wcup. On the other hand Japan has done poorly
      at u20 with just a 3rd place before 2016, while being a top and
      consistent full NT. I don’t put too much stock in pure results for U
      level as long as you have a coherent system thru the U system that meets
      up with NT, like Japan for example. The result for US is not my
      concern it’s more the lack of a coherent system, style and type of
      player they are developing. At U level results can be very inconsistent
      b/c you’re dealing with kids and not pros like at full NT level.

      • Steglitz49

        This French U20 team is to a great extent their successful U17 team who won the WC. They should be nicely mature for WC-19.

      • Jean Perroni

        Firstly U17 and U20 may not always a god indication of success at the snior level. But comparing the youth tournamnet in 2004, 2006 to todays games is a little bit naive. The level of competition is way higher today than before. In the 2000 s the level of the game on womens side was still low, teams are incosistent.

        Brazil, Argentina, Portugal dominated the u20 last 20 years in mens game, Spain, French, Ghana won once. It s not a coincindence how those teams played well in senior level.

        • HOFCToDi

          However, the trend at the youth levels is alarming. The U-17 USWNT has been a disaster this decade.

          The High Cost of American Coaching

          topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/07/the-high-cost-of-american-coaching/

          “The coaching apparatus in this country is desperately trying to keep up with the boom. And it has not done a particularly good job.”

    • HOFCToDi

      A dose of reality:

      What’s Wrong With American Youth Soccer Development

      whatahowler.com/whats-wrong-with-american-youth-soccer-development-e1b9bba8869d

      “There is no quick fix. A country so large with so many sports competing for a young player’s interest has development issues that will outlive most of us.”

      The High Cost of American Coaching

      topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/07/the-high-cost-of-american-coaching/

      “The coaching apparatus in this country is desperately trying to keep up with the boom. And it has not done a particularly good job.”

      Pay-to-Play is a Symptom, not the Problem Itself

      topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/06/pay-to-play-is-a-symptom-not-the-problem-itself/

  • jdee26

    FIGHT SONGS NEED COMPANY; AND MORE TECHNICAL COMPANY……..

    If anything Michelle French learned that heart and fight songs alone don’t guarantee championships.Technique, ball possession, discipline and movement without the ball, especially in the midfield is the key to breaking down defenses and scoring goals.
    US midfielder, Katie Cousins was awful, to say the least. Why she lasted that long on the field to give up a penalty is coach’s miscue.Again, except for brief moments in the first half the midfield was non existent forcing Pugh and Sanchez to fall back to defend.The hand writing was on the wall given the team’s performances in pre- tournament matches. That they lasted this long is more than a miracle.

  • Ethan

    On the behind the goal view for Momiki’s penalty (FIFA highlights), it doesn’t look like the ball went completely over the line. Inconsequential in the end, but I don’t know if the right decision was made.

  • Gary Diver

    Dirty Soccer

    Soccer is not rugby nor roller derby. Dirty hits need to be penalized with yellow and sometimes red cards.

    If referees don’t give out cards, the players will be encouraged to play dirtier. Hurting players with cheap shots is wrong. (If it was done in the past, it was wrong then also.) The refereeing at OG16 was god awful and a lot of players got away with murder. Kadeisha Buchanan didn’t even get a yellow card when she took down Eugénie Le Sommer in the box without touching the ball. The Zimbabwe players who cut down and seriously injured Simone Laudehr were not given any cards.

    The foul on Ally Watt in this game was significant. Watt was effectively challenging the North Koreans and their response was to attempt to hurt her. When she left the game, USWNT had to play with only 10 players. Ashley Sanchez was blindsided from the back. These are not just dirty plays, they could cause career-ending injuries. North Korea does not have a reputation in the soccer world for playing ethically. Wasn’t their senior team suspended? How often does that happen in FIFA?

    If the referees don’t start taking control of the unnecessary violence, more good players are going to end up with career-ending injuries. It is simply unethical and against the rules to hurt players with cheap shots. Player safety needs to be protected and changes in attitude need to come soon.

    • #1Fan

      Ok. So how do you get better refs? you pay for them. Poor refereeing is an issue throughout youth soccer. In fact kids never really learn the rules because they are rarely enforced. I see more violent fouls in the women’s youth game that in any other medium. Most are fouls of pure ignorance and refs do nothing.

      • CED

        Poor, well lets say non adequate youth refs is kind of unavoidable to an extent. They are not pros or often have desire to be. Pro leagues like MLS have very poor refs too.

        On bad fouls, this occurs b/c refs are vary reluctant to give yellows at youth, HS, and even college level in America. The US view is yo have to virtually kill somebody to get a card. Also, b/c kids are taught to be highly aggressive while being often technically inadequate in many aspects, including tackling. Being bigger, faster, rougher is what wins leads to nasty fouls with refs reluctant to give out cards.

        • Steglitz49

          The issue here in this U20 WC is that teams like North-Korea and Brazil were allowed to get away with fouls but other teams were not.

          Oth, in OG-16 and also OG12, the US got away with fouling, so maybe it evens out in the end.

          As #1Fan types, money needs to be injected into the female ref system. Money, not words.

      • Gary Diver

        Maybe true, but if it is not checked the violence cheap shots are going to end career unnecessarily. I don’t know who needs to stand up and say “this is not right”, but somebody does.

        • #1Fan

          Many people stand up and say its not right but money talks. No one really cares about women’s soccer. its an afterthought. They have already ended careers, but because its not high profile enough ….By the way, physical play is a big part of US soccer. Go watch a HS game, or even Club soccer. Kids are out there fouling all game. Its dressed up as having heart, or being tough. We literally kick technical players out of many games because we do not force refs to protect them by giving yellows and eventually reds.

      • Steglitz49

        I just learnt that the Lancashire FA is hosting its first ever Female Referee Development Evening early next year.

    • HOFCToDi
    • Steglitz49

      Brazil vs Sweden in this U20 WC was a good example of not just poor but biased refereeing. The ref must have been given a telling-off by some ref committee at halftime because in the 2nd half she started off refereeing properly but again towards the end of the match she had backslid.

  • Jean Perroni

    I was a little bit sceptical about North Korean players age. Some of them seem older than 20 lol.

    • Steglitz49

      I thought that FIFA did random age checks but maybe it is harder for the 20 year cut-off for ladies?

    • CED

      There in no way to check in reality as the society is closed and any paperwork they give could be fake. This is a country that claims their leader got 18 hole in ones on one round of golf.

      • Steglitz49

        As I typed, FIFA spot-checks age, at least among the boys. It may be that the method is not as good for the lasses at 20 years as at 17 or 18.

        • CED

          FIFA and other international groups such as IOC are useless in trying to monitor closed countries or corrupt countries that will go to any means.. What part don’t you get that a spot check is useless, this isn’t like drug testing where spot check might make a difference. You spot check a birth certificate? You spot check a U system? They can have pre forge papers on age or change documentation way in advance. China was found to do that on OG competitions in gymnastics and people only found out b/c a person who left the country spilled the beans. Russia got away with PED’s for OG in the OG they hosted and were only caught again b/c an insider spilled the beans that the KGB and therir entire sports federation were in on it. They had an elaborate scheme that reads like a cold war movie. Simple fact is closed and corrupt societies can cheat at will and you’re only going to catch them if an insider spills the beans. An open western country some kind of cheating would be find out easily if they tried to use over age players.

          • Steglitz49

            FIFA uses dating by MRI of selected parts of the skeleton. They could also use dental X-rays and X-rays of the wrist but I don’t think they do but instead rely on MRI.

            FIFA used it first at a boys U17 tournament in 2003 and then at the AFC U17 in 2004. They found big discrepancies in the reported age of some of the boys with what the test showed. Before AFC 2006, the various nations were informed that players would be tested. The discrepancies were much lower and has essentially disappeared.

            Whether FIFA bother to test the ladies too, I do not know.

          • CED

            Again you show your not bright and can’t follow the topic The person in this thread was talking about NK and the U20 using over age players. They said some of the players looked older.

            MRI is useless b/c it’s based on epiphyseal plate fusion, which can with a 1% error tell if you’re over 17. Useless to tell if you are over 20 playing on a U20. Teeth again only useful for telling over 18 based on root closures of teeth. Useless for telling if over 20 playing on U20, which was what the poster was lamenting about. Btw, I know more about this than you, as expected. I have 2 degrees IN BMED Engr and a MD. Please again, stop talking about something you know little about.

          • Steglitz49

            FIFA uses MRI. They could also use dental X-rays and X-rays of the wrist but as far as I know they don’t. Head of the FIFA team that developed those procedures is a chap called Jiri Dvorak.

            As I typed, FIFA use MRI for the U17 men. FIFA does not recommend MRI of the wrist for female players aged 17 or younger. This fits with my point that I do not know if they use it for women and I don’t know if they use it for U20.

            FIFA has arrangements with top hospitals around the world, for example iIn Canada there is McGill Univ and in Belgium Liège.

          • CED

            Again you show your retarded and can’t follow the topic. @sshat can you read? Original poster..”I was a little bit skeptical about North Korean players age” The topic is U20 you dipsh*t.. Try to keep up.

    • Gary Diver

      North Korea’s attitude towards sports reminds me of East Germany’s before the Berlin Wall fell in 1989: the ends justify the means. Is it surprising that their senior team was suspended from WC15?

      • Steglitz49

        The sad truth is that the USWNT introduced winning at all costs into WoSo. Once that cat was out of the bag every other nation had to sharpen its claws too.

        Sharpening the cards is, of course, unforgivable.

  • Silver Frost

    “I couldn’t be more proud,” – M. French. Pride, spirit, belief. If that is what USA depends on to win tournaments, all is lost. French has gone past expiration date. This is just not acceptable performance from a US team.

    • HOFCToDi

      Michelle French lives in a different reality.

      2016 FIFA U-20 Women’s World Cup

      Shots Attempted
      MEX 15 USA 4

      fifa.com/u20womensworldcup/matches/round=275999/match=300353174/index.html#overview

      Shots Attempted
      PRK 25 USA 7

      fifa.com/u20womensworldcup/matches/round=276001/match=300353177/index.html#overview

      All is not lost. Gulati finally delivered the pink slip to Jurgen Klinsmann.

      • Steglitz49

        Who do you want to take over from the coach that won the world cup for the US after 16 years of impotence? And who to replace the U17 and U20 coaches?

        There is Sasaki, Dennerby and Neid.

        • HOFCToDi

          Worry about YOUR country.

          2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
          GER 4 SWE 1

          Sweden women’s national football team has never won the FIFA Women’s World Cup.

          Sweden experienced the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

          Sweden has proven to be frauds based upon the U-17 (failed to qualify) and U-20 women’s national football team results.

          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_UEFA_Women%27s_Under-17_Championship

    • CED

      OMG another moron that doesn’t have the awareness to know that’s the
      professional way to comment on an international game. You expect her to
      say, we suck, I hope MK loses, etc…

      • Steglitz49

        Silver Frost’s point is taken though. You gain nothing by spouting platitudes and inanities. Insight diplomatically presented usually wins the day.

        I put it to you, C E Droll: How about? — “We only lost by the narrowest of margins. Remember, these North-Koreans beat Sweden 2-0, dismissed Brazil 4-2 and put Spain to the Sword 3-2. Our girls did all right. Of course we wanted to win. Everyone does. But, the ball did not bounce our way. That’s life.”

        • CED

          You people are clueless. It’s the right statement not only for how you handle an international event. It is also the right statement b/c you don’t throw a bunch of U players under the bus. They aren’t pros. If U come out with lamenting on them, which is what they really want, kids are not going to be wanting to pay for that coach, especially when they had to give up a college season just to be thrown under the bus b/c the team will finish 3rd or 4th. You people are psychofants

          • HOFCToDi

            A smart coach never throws his/her players under the bus.

          • Steglitz49

            These young women were 18, 19 and 20 with an odd one who could not vote in the Election.

            I put it to you that they are not kids, as you prefer them to be.

            Anyway, how can “we only lost by the narrowest of margins” be seen as negative.

            The coach can’t criticize the quality of the refereeing, however abysmal. The team management can make a complaint to FIFA and usually do though nothing ever officially comes of it.

  • mj

    An analysis from NT coach after being eliminated from World Cup:

    – “I couldn’t be more proud”
    – “We never gave up”
    – “fatigue [is] 100 percent to be expected”
    – “good luck to Korea in the final”

    This woman is not even pretending to have a clue.

    • HOFCToDi

      Michelle French lives in a different reality.

      2016 FIFA U-20 Women’s World Cup

      Shots Attempted
      FRA 20 USA 3

      fifa.com/u20womensworldcup/matches/round=275987/match=300353191/index.html#statistics

      Shots Attempted
      GHA 14 USA 8

      fifa.com/u20womensworldcup/matches/round=275987/match=300353165/index.html#overview

      • Gary Diver

        Shots on goal may be a better statistic. For the 3 NTC Invitational games in September, which was suppose to be the tune-up games for the WC, US U20 had a total of 5 shots on goals for the 3 games. If that didn’t tell French she had a problem getting the ball into the final third that needed fixing, she is beyond hope.

        • Steglitz49

          Shots on target: Fra 4, US 1; Ghana 1, US 2; Mex 4, US 2; NK 7, US 2 — from his links.

        • HOFCToDi

          Shots on goal does not determine how the match was dictated.

          2016 FIFA U-20 Women’s World Cup
          Shots Attempted
          FRA, GHA, MEX, PRK – 74
          USA – 22

          The U-20 USWNT has achieved tomato can status.

          • Steglitz49

            Shots on target:
            Fra, Gha, Mex & NK – 16; USA – 7
            16/74 = 22% while 7/22 = 32%

    • CED

      OMG another moron that doesn’t have the awareness to know that’s the professional way to comment on an international game. You expect her to say, we suck, I hope MK loses, etc… Get a clue.

      • Gary Diver

        I understand your point, but it would be refreshing for a coach to make honest post-game comments that shed some insight on what occurred during the game and what determined the outcome. French’s comments were all vanilla and no insight.

        • Steglitz49

          You ask too much.

          What did JE say after the Bomb in Brasilia aka Miracle on Grass.

          • rkmid71

            It appears that will have to stay between her and Gulati. Maybe in 10 years or so when she writes a book. Or like Pia, sheds some light in an interview. But I don’t think JE has Pia’s free spirit to say what she thinks.

          • Steglitz49

            Indeed.

          • HOFCToDi

            Worry about YOUR country.

            2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
            GER 4 SWE 1

            Sweden women’s national football team has never won the FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            Sweden experienced the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

            Sweden has proven to be frauds based upon the U-17 and U-20 women’s national football team results.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_UEFA_Women%27s_Under-17_Championship

            Sweden was not even one of the eight finalists at the 2016 UEFA Women’s U-17 Championship.

          • Steglitz49

            What did JE say?

      • Steglitz49

        She need not have said “good luck to Korea in the final”. That was uncalled for. She should have wished both teams all the best.

        • CED

          Wrong they played North Korea. You’re clueless, it’s common practice to wish luck to the team you played to. If you know anything about the game, which you daily prove you don’t, you would know that.

          • Steglitz49

            Did the Americans wish the Swedes good luck against Brazil after the Miracle on Grass? I can’t remember hearing it but may be it was drowned by Hope’s rant.

          • CED

            You’re f*cking dumb as expected. Watch Ellis’ press conference you idiot. Again, dipsh*t this was about the coaches comments. Try to keep up retard!

          • Steglitz49

            Just provide the answer — if you can.

  • mj

    +10y contract + good salary + power to fire all nepotistic scrubs = maybe he’ll go for it and restructurize youth NTs and win sth (again).

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/head-coach-steve-swanson-and-kealia-ohai-of-the-usa-celebrates-with-picture-id151500749

  • Gary Diver

    I feel sorry for the players who red-shirted. USWNT got more out of them then they did from USWNT.

    • Steglitz49

      Can the NCAA get together and ban red-shirting? I though that red-shirting is mainly used to become a 5th year senior.

      Red-shiritng, presumably, exists for an honest reason.

      • CED

        When will you learn to stop embarrassing yourself and talking about something you know nothing about. Find a Sweden Forum and leave US sports to Americabs b/c you’re clueless on the topic.

        • Steglitz49

          Yawn, C E Droll.

          Red-shirting for medical and academic reasons are well known. Red-shirting to get a 5th year as senior — usually a ruse to avoid being drafted by some dreadful team — is also well recognized.

          Here we are talking about being forced to red-shirt to be allowed to play for an NT. The NCAA must stamp on such abuse immediately and hard.

          • CED

            Again. please shut up as you have no idea what you’re talking about. You can redshirt for any reason and it’s not a draft ruse you moron.

            Kids redshirt often in sports for a variety of reason besides academic or injury. Sometimes just b/c there is a backlog of people in their position or star player and they don;t want to waste a yr of eligibility. That is very common in football. It’s not abuse..read the rules. “A Division I student-athlete has five calendar years to compete in four seasons of competition.” You can use those 4 seasons anyway you want. Choosing to take time off is not abuse for an endeavor you deem important..ie…Wcup, OG, etc…. People in other sports have taken time off to focus on OG in their sport etc… There is no abuse on redshirting, get a clue. Please go away and keep your stupidity to Sweden.

          • Steglitz49

            Calm down C E Droll. We can all read Wikipedia.

            If you redshirt because of a backlog you become a 5th year senior, don’t you?

            This is a totally different situation. An external agency, the head coach of the U20s, requires you to red-shirt. It is a demand from another coach. It is obnoxious and has no right to life.

            What will Ms Pugh do in 2019 when the real world cup rolls along? No red-shirting then.

            I would have said — stuff you, mate — and plowed my own furrow.

          • CED

            You never learn to stop commenting on something you know absolutely nothing about. You revel in your stupidity. Even when you’re proven to be stupid, which is with every post, you come back spouting more absolute nonsense. You’re by far the dumbest person on this forum and that’s a feat. Btw, idiot I don’t have to use wikipedia to know NCAA rules b/c unlike you I actually am from a the US and played college sports. You’re a dopey Swede obsessed with another countries National teams.

          • Steglitz49

            You could not name the women soccer players in that simple quizz, which speaks volumes to your knowledge, let alone understanding, of WoSo. The silence is deafening.

          • CED

            Get over yourself you retard. You can’t really be that stupid? of course you are and are proud of it. I have embarrassed you daily on here showing your ignorance of the game. I know more about the game than you wish you did. You think somebody is going to play you juvenile game. Are you a child or just a stupid Swede who has the intelligence of one.

    • HOFCToDi

      The players are a product of inept youth coaching.

      The High Cost of American Coaching

      topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2016/07/the-high-cost-of-american-coaching/

      “The coaching apparatus in this country is desperately trying to keep up with the boom. And it has not done a particularly good job.”

    • #1Fan

      how do you figure that? They represented their country in the U20 WC. They made the choice.

  • Gary Diver

    Good coaches always have a game plan for important matches. Did Michelle French have any discernible strategy in this match? With the personnel she has on her roster, what could she have done differently that would have better countered North Korea’s strengths and tilted the game more in her team’s favor?

    • Steglitz49

      Sweden lost 0-2 to NK but it could just as well have been 1-1. Brazil lost 2-4 to NK but I did not watch that match so can’t comment. Thus, the US losing 1-2 does not look so bad.

      No doubt, as in the Swe-Bra match, the refereeing played a part. This is a chronic problem in WoSo and probably reflects the low status and income of female refs. Leagues that use male refs only compound the problem. We have to wait and see what FIFA comes up with if anything.

      • Gary Diver

        Refereeing in WoSo is a disgrace. There was awful refereeing in WC15, awful refereeing in OG16, and awful refereeing in U20 WC16.

        Matches should be determined on the field by the play of the players, not by inept refereeing. The lack of cards for egregious fouls is disgusting and the number of bad calls is almost as bad.

        For some reason referees get away with not enforcing straight-forward rules. One example that bothers me is allowing GKs to come off line during PKs. Whether people like that rule or not, it is the official FIFA rule. Australia definitely got cheated by the Canadian referee in their QF against Brazil, when Brazil’s GK Barbara was allowed to come 2-3 feet off-line a number of time. If the referee call Barbara the first time she cheated, she would not have done it again. By not calling the foul, the cheating got worse and worse and cost Australia the match.

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3738500/2016-Rio-Olympics-Matildas-suffering-heart-breaking-loss-Brazil-losing-7-6-penalties-dramatic-encounter.html

        If referees do not enforce rules, they encourage the players to push the limits of what they can get away with. This happens in all sports, but for some reason it seems worse in soccer. It is one thing to turn a blind eye to one incident of bad player behavior, but it is another thing to tolerate referees who consistently pick and choose when to enforce clearly stated rules. Too many important WoSo matches in the past two years have been determined by poor refereeing. That is not right for the players and not right for the fans.

        • Steglitz49

          Solutions please. We have recognized the problem since OG-12 and the Japanese since WC-11, if not earlier.

          • HOFCToDi

            Worry about YOUR country.

            Sweden women’s national football team has never won the FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            Sweden experienced the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

            Sweden has proven to be frauds based upon the U-17 (failed to qualify) and U-20 women’s national football team results.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_UEFA_Women%27s_Under-17_Championship

          • Steglitz49

            I fail to see how what you write helps solve the refereeing issue in WoSo.

        • Steglitz49

          This is what is happening across the Pond. The Lancashire FA is hosting its first ever Female Referee Development Evening early next year.

          • HOFCToDi

            Nobody cares, dumbass.

            Find an European website where you have not been banned.

          • Steglitz49

            The quality of WoSo refereeing must be improved, don’t you agree? Please present your solution.

        • HOFCToDi

          FIFA is inept and corrupt. The CSA won the turf war.

          Referees suck on the men’s side, as well.

  • Mariafcrowder

    Google is paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family! !mj444d:
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  • Gary Diver

    Third-Place Match (against Japan)

    “Now we’re at a point where we have to turn around and refocus because we have an opportunity to earn a medal,” said French. “Our players need to realize that. Their job isn’t done and they’re going to have every opportunity against whoever our opponent is [in the third place match] to come out and show why we deserve to be in the final four.”

    If USWNT doesn’t come ready to battle Japan for third place, it is on French’s head. (Remember that this Japanese team humiliated USWNT 5-0 in the Papua New Guinea dry-run back in the end of May. This match will tell us whether French is truly clueless on how to coach a team.

    • rkmid71

      I wonder whether we’ll see those players that appeared to suffer concussion like symptoms vs. NK. Or whether she’ll play some that haven’t previously seen the field much.

      • Gary Diver

        The situation with the players with concussion-like symptoms must be scary for those players. Something has to be done to reduce the cheap shots that are causing these injuries.

        As much as I would like to see USWNT beat Japan, French probably shouldn’t play players who are dealing with possible concussion injuries. Safety and health should come before results, especially at the U20 level.

        • Steglitz49

          “Safety and health” must always come before results.

          As I typed to rkmid71, “concussion-like symptoms” are weasel-words of the worst order.

      • Steglitz49

        “Concussion-like symptoms” sound like weasel-words of the worst order. In rugby 25-30 years ago they introduced that a player can’t play for 3 weeks if s/he suffers a concussion.

        I guess “concussion-like” gets around the rules. Let’s hope they don’t need to red-shrit for health reasons next.

        • rkmid71

          I think it’s the precautionary term that results in them being taken off the field to be tested. To determine whether they actually suffered a concussion or not. But remember Morgan Brian going back in after the Popp collision. Or that German player in the 2014 WC. Those looked much worse than anything Watt, Pugh or Sanchez suffered. Though Watt looked pretty out of it and Pugh looked dazed.

          • Steglitz49

            The player in the WC-14 final was taken off the field at the insistence of the ref, Rizzoli. I am not sure that strictly speaking the ref can carry through such a decision (it is up to the team doctor, I think) but such was the respect that players and management had for Rizzoli that when he asked that the player be substituted, it was done.

          • rkmid71

            Isn’t that sad? But kudos to Rizzoli. They say the really dangerous concussion is the hit after the first concussion.

        • Gary Diver

          There is no doubt that concussions are a major problem in a number of sports. They have caused major brain damage in a number of NFL players. The Will Smith 2015 film “Concussion” did a nice job showing how the NFL has fought this problem because of the economics factor. Amazingly, the producers of “Concussion” watered down the script due to pressures from the NFL.

          Sidney Crosby, probably the best current hockey player in the world, missed nearly a season of play due to concussions and is maybe one major concussion away from ending his career. Amanda Kessel, one of the best American women hockey players, is only 25 years old but has already sit out 2 years (2014-2015) due to concussions.

          I believe even Donald Trump made some stupid comment about NFL players who suffer concussions being weak players. This medical issue is far too serious to make light of.

  • D ll Fan

    The takeaway for me is that the majority of the Mexican team was “developed” in the US youth club system and play college ball. These players were coached into playing coherent organized football. So either the US coaches are unable to organize their team or they don’t want to despite their lip service to the contrary.
    French is no different than Snow or Heinrich or Ellis. Well meaning and hard working I’m sure but without any professional football coaching expertise. Roberto Medina the Mexican coach ( who might get the senior team job) just demonstrated that it’s not our players, nor our wonderful though mixed up youth system that holds us back. We don’t have professional coaches leading our national teams. I really don’t know if we would win more medals I just want to watch us play football.
    Our players with all their hard work deserve better.

    • #1Fan

      Mexico is a soccer nation. Do you think this plays any part? I bet these kids grew up around the game and have a feel for it that many of our manufactured players just don’t have. I think its part coaching and part culture

      • Steglitz49

        Monica Flores played for Mexico while Sabrina Flores for the US. Never the twain twins shall meet — unless one swaps sides before it is too late.

      • rkmid71

        Maybe to a minor extent. I think the point was there nothing preventing the US coaches from selecting players that have a feel for it. Afterall, they are eligible to play for the US. As DII says, the majority of Mexican team were “developed” in the US youth club system and at US colleges. And I believe there are plenty of non Mexican US based players that have a feel for it. The US coaches either don’t know what they’re looking for or don’t prioritize those attributes.

        • #1Fan

          Its semantics, but I guess Im saying that they really weren’t developed in that system. They play in it. Let me ask you a question. You say there are plenty. So is this coaching failure endemic to all of it? How many College teams do you see playing attractive possession soccer? Or even high level Club teams? 10 pct ?

          • Steglitz49

            It seems to me that everyone commenting on the EQ are overreacting. Yes, 2016 has not been a joyful year for US WoSo but give the opposition some credit.

            On the senior side, 8 teams remain in the Champions League: Barca, Bayern Munich, Lyon, PSG, Wolfsburg, Man City, Rosengård and Hjörring. Six of those (75%) belong to wealthy men’s clubs. The NWSL has expanded by adding two MLS-sidekicks.

            Euro-17 will give us a good idea and then the WC qualifiers start.

          • CED

            Go away nobody cares.

          • Steglitz49

            How Droll, CE.

          • HOFCToDi

            Nobody cares, dumbass.

            2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
            GER 4 SWE 1

            Sweden women’s national football team has never won the FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            Sweden experienced the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

            Sweden has proven to be frauds based upon the U-17 and U-20 women’s national football team results.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_UEFA_Women%27s_Under-17_Championship

            Sweden was not even one of the eight finalists at the 2016 UEFA Women’s U-17 Championship.

          • Steglitz49

            Norway is the only WNT to have won both the World Cup and OG. Norway has about half the population of Sweden, that is about 1/60th of the US.

          • HOFCToDi

            Nobody cares, moron.

            Worry about YOUR country.

            2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
            GER 4 SWE 1

            Sweden women’s national football team has never won the FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            Sweden experienced the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

            Sweden has proven to be frauds based upon the U-17 and U-20 women’s national football team results.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_UEFA_Women%27s_Under-17_Championship

            Sweden was not even one of the eight finalists at the 2016 UEFA Women’s U-17 Championship.

          • Steglitz49

            Rosengård is a Swedish team. it is one of the two team of those last 8 that does not belong to a wealthy men’s team.

            Wrong illustration again. Better luck next time.

          • rkmid71

            In high level club, in the early days like U13, my daughter’s team was one of very few. But last year in U18, there were more that were at least trying. But it takes a long time to get really good at it and you can’t have many weak links. She was on the same team, same coaches (A licensed) for 9 years. I would say it’s closer to 20% today. This year as college freshman, the upperclassmen tended to be kick and run while the freshman sophs were more possession. So the coach is transitioning. The play ended up a little bit of both. It’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

            I think it’s mostly a coaching failure and what coaches are looking for in recruits and for YNT and their preconception or misconception about what they need to succeed. College teams like UVA, Stanford, Florida are examples of attractive possession teams. There are more and more each passing year. If you change the college rules on subs you would see even more out of necessity. You can’t play helter skelter 110 mph for 90 minutes with mostly the same players.

            I like the ebb and flow of soccer, slow then fast, back then forward, spread the defense then drive down their throat, more like a chess match using skill and guile, unpredictability and sometimes just plain athleticism too. UNC seems to have always been simply about overpowering, platooning players, taking advantage of the college rules and their recruiting power. It’s hard to blame them. It works. There are some club teams like that, especially those with deep rosters. My daughter’s team almost had to play possession out of necessity to compete with the bigger clubs — just didn’t have enough bench quality so starters usually played the big minutes in the toughest games..

          • #1Fan

            Seems like you are saying something very similar to me. i would put the percentage lower than you but thats fine. My point remains the same. College is the real pinnacle of the game in the US for women and it is far harder to be a winning possession team than it is to take the short cuts.

          • rkmid71

            A college coach has to be able to recruit possession players. They don’t have the time to develop them at that age. Same with YNTs. IMO, the ball skills have to be learned early, kind of like muscle memory and constantly honed. The tactical stuff and decision making just takes a lot of trial and error over years. Ideally, I would always have some freak athletes on a team (even if tech skills aren’t great) to complement a lot of possession type players. That keeps the other team honest. In a perfect world, every player is very athletic, great ball skills, and very smart. But I would prioritize smart, ball skills and sufficient athleticism in that order (some players are just too slow, too small, not quick enough to compete at highest level).

          • Steglitz49

            Naho Kawasumi has told how when she was little her father used to take her along to when one of her older siblings were playing. When an old player, who watched on the sideline, came to realize that this little tot was talented, he started teaching her. Thus at a very early age she learnt ball control and trick shots from an expert.

          • HOFCToDi

            Nobody cares, troll.

            Worry about YOUR country.

            2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
            GER 4 SWE 1

            Sweden women’s national football team has never won the FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            Sweden experienced the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

            Sweden has proven to be frauds based upon the U-17 and U-20 women’s national football team results.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_UEFA_Women%27s_Under-17_Championship

            Sweden was not even one of the eight finalists at the 2016 UEFA Women’s U-17 Championship.

          • Steglitz49

            Naho Kawasumi played for Japan. She scored 2 of their 3 goals against Sweden in the WC-11 semi-final.

            You are 4 years out of date but never mind. Better luck next time.

          • #1Fan

            i will put it another way. I don’t see many players or teams that are comfortable in possession.

          • Steglitz49

            Playing effective productive possession soccer with penetration is more difficult than most people understand, as you no doubt appreciate from your own direct experience.

            That is what the Golden Generation will be remembered for, not just their success on the field.

          • atalba

            You can look at possession as a style of football, or the actual measurement of possession. I’d rather go with the possessing the ball more than the opponent. There are plenty of teams in college that possess the ball, comfortably, over their opponents, by design and with success. The best is Stanford. But, as you mentioned, it takes athleticism to play at the highest level. With so many choices for top programs, and with the NT, you must have great athleticism; not sufficient. This is the advantage of American women’s soccer.

            Possession is key. But it’s not tiki-taka possession that makes good college teams like Stanford dominate with time on the ball. Their players are good on the ball; can pass accurately; and have high soccer IQ’s. Possession is way over-rated if it doesn’t factor in movement, speed of play, and athleticism. Let the Euros believe they are so much better because they know how to play with possession.

          • rkmid71

            As I said, in a perfect world every player has everything. In the NT, as we’ve seen the U17 and U20 WCs, some of those players had neither great athleticism or soccer iq or technical skill.Seemingly somewhere in between on everything. Many of those players clearly weren’t the best athletes we could have fielded.

          • Steglitz49

            They got to the SF and lost by one goal to one of the favorites. Spain lost 2-3 and Sweden 0-2.

            The US U20s drew with France, who are in the final.

          • Steglitz49

            The Golden Generation have been the greatest exponents of such football in WoSo over the past 5 years but Sweden has also shown flashes of comprehension.

          • Steglitz49

            Given the substitution rules, that you yourself have highlighted, playing possession soccer maybe does not pay off as much in the NCAA, as opposed to when you play by FIFA rules?

          • #1Fan

            how many teams are really exploiting the rule? You talk like everyone does. They really don’t.

          • rkmid71

            I assume you meant exploit. I think it’s mostly the teams with deeper, higher quality benches and bigger rosters that exploit the rules.That’s not everyone, but quite a few. The other teams have to play their best players longer. I would like to see the best players against the best players with FIFA rules. That will separate the wheat from the chaff and show which are best suited for int’l play. But when one team platoons in 6-7 players to go against the starters of another team. Then comes back with their rested starters at some point its just attrition.

          • #1Fan

            ?? I wrote that. And I get who would. I just don’t see many doing it. If you look at say the top 25 College teams, who does it ? I exclude Club because the rules are there to allow more players to get PT and to be seen.

            Personally I think the sub rule this is a red herring. I don’t think it plays in to it much.

          • rkmid71

            I think my eyesight is failing. Anyway, I should have expected you to make me back it up. This might not be the best measure, but I checked season stats for a few teams to see # of players played >500 minutes. Top of list so far were UCLA, UNC, UVA at 19,18,16. In the ACC, lowest was Louisville at 13. Many other ACC teams at 14. Stanford was surprisingly low at 15. With FIFA rules (3 subs, no re-entry) I would expect the numbers to be smaller. The teams that tend to be the recruit magnets have a deep bench and therefore can play more players without a measurable dropoff in quality. The others have to stick with their main starters plus 2 or 3 top subs, even with the sub rules as is. When you start cramming 2 games in 3 days, the UNC, UVA, UCLA start having a big advantage with current rules.

          • #1Fan

            I think there is a difference between using more players and exploiting the rule. UNC exploit the rule. Im not sure many others do.

          • Steglitz49

            If rkmid71’s list is correct, then UCLA use one more than UNC who use two more than UVA and then comes Stanford.

            It is a bit like the USWBBT where it does not matter if a top player or two foul out because the replacements are still excellent while it is disaster for any other NT.

          • #1Fan

            No its not. its nothing like that. to exploit the rule is to value pace and fitness over quality. UNC does that. They remove players en masse to insert fresh ones at specific times. UNC aim to press every team they play and create turnovers high up the field to score off. Its almost like clockwork. UCLA / UVA do not do that. They have rosters of talented kids that they get in games, but usually when a starter is spent or playing poorly. Its not at all the same.

          • Steglitz49

            Thanks for the clarification. The point is that those other players, who come on instead, are not half bad either.

          • DNG

            To be fair this is a sound strategy in the men’s game with normal sub rules. This is how Klopp has built his successful teams. I’m not sure that women can cover the ground fast enough for this to be a sound strategy against the best teams in the women’s game but it is a big part of the US strategy in how the US beat Germany in the WC semifinals a year ago. Even Japan couldn’t cope with the US’s press. I personally find Klopp’s teams enjoyable to watch as well.

          • Steglitz49

            Sweden obviously could not just in Brasilia this year but over the past 5 years.

          • #1Fan

            The tactic is. But rolling in 6 subs a t a time is abusing the rule. It was not designed for that purpose. Klopp has built his teams on the press. NOT the ability to keep subbing in fresh legs. There is a big difference.

          • Steglitz49

            DNG’s point, that because men are faster and bigger the size of the soccer field makes a difference, is well taken though.

            It is an obvious point, like the size of the goals being the same for the ladies as the men, nevertheless it is worth reminding people that the size of the field is also the same.

          • DNG

            I was just defending the tactics as potentially being viable with normal sub rules. How do you think the rules should be changed to deal with hockey style changes while also accounting for the college schedule? If UNC were playing one match per week I think a pressing scheme could be viable with the right players

          • #1Fan

            understood. I don’t think it needs to be changed. I think we have to realize that the sport is there to be enjoyed by as many as possible. Its College. I don’t think the goal of College sports should be to create pro players as such. I think the rule is abused by some, but not by the majority. The solution to beating it is to beat the press and expose the weaknesses. I don’t like it, but no reason to change it.

          • rkmid71

            If I recall correctly, the # of HS players that go on to play D1 college soccer is very small — something like 1-2%. So it’s not there to be enjoyed by as many as possible It’s the elite of the elite. Obviously for other sports, especially the revenue sports, many players are looking for a pro career while also getting a good education. In many cases, they leave college early if the money is right.

          • #1Fan

            I’m referring to kids on the teams. I’m trying to say that using all your rosters does not always equal expoloiting the rule. I understand that College is. The pro route for many sports and I don’t agree with it. It’s a double edged sword. I’m sure others think it’s great.

          • HOFCToDi

            Klopp’s Liverpool and the importance of ‘gegenpressing’

            theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/oct/16/jurgen-klopp-liverpool-gegenpressing-borussia-dortmund

          • Steglitz49

            What happend to Cloppenburg?

          • rkmid71

            I disagree with #1Fan. Exploiting the rule (as compared to FIFA rules) is also taking advantage of the deep bench. Though UNC takes it to another level as #1 points out. There is really no limit to subs. And Steg49’s comparison to US BBall is valid as compared to other NTs. I predicted Brazil would win OG IF no injuries especially of key players. Because they just didn’t have the depth. Once Cristiane went out, they were doomed though they made it semis. If a starter at UCLA/UVA is playing poorly or is spent, if limited to 3 subs no re-entry, the coach would have to think twice before subbing them out.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you.

            I contend that getting Jessica Samuelsson back was what turned it around for Sweden.

            Jessica had a spell ijn Australia with Melbourne Victory in a season that they won. Since then she has plowed her furrow in Sweden but might be open to offers.

          • Steglitz49

            Enough do for you to have brought it up as a reason why some US players have problems coping with the standard FIFA rules.

            If the NCAA substitution rules result in less injuries for the ladies, then FIFA ought to adopt them.

          • #1Fan

            not me. I do not see it as an issue. You have the wrong guy

          • rkmid71

            Or just adopt FIFA rules and spread out the season. To me that’s the best of both worlds. Higher quality play, fewer injuries, and college becomes a real way to ID the best int’l players. I would guess that would result in fewer injuries for the majority of teams that play with fewer players anyway.

          • Steglitz49

            I presume that the duration of the season depends on stuff outside NCAA soccer’s controll? Or do I simply reveal my ignorance and invite CE Droll’s wrath?

          • rkmid71

            Check this out this link. I think no matter how incisive your comments, the wrath is coming your way.

            http://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2016/4/7/11381790/college-soccer-ncaa-american-development

          • Steglitz49

            Ta very much. Fascinating and illuminating.

            I noted that 90% was about men’s soccer and that no strong reason for not going to a fall and spring schedule was presented.

          • rkmid71

            Coaches are hugely in favor while it’s believed <50% of ADs. Perhaps the non-soccer coaches worry about the impact on their sport? Cost reason I think is a red herring. It can't be that material. And even if most ADs were on board, you would have to get the blessing of that NCAA D1 council comprised of 40 individuals (with none dedicated specifically to soccer). Sounds like the FIFA Exec Committee or the United Nations. And the NCAA has a subcommittee dedicated to all sports not including football, and men's and women's basketball. What the heck do they do? It's no wonder nothing gets done. We need some old fashioned journalism, an investigative report.

          • CED

            First, don’t look at college as the substitution rules alter greatly how you play and develop players. You can’t draw comparison of college play to international play.

          • Steglitz49

            #1Fan has made exactly that point more than once already.

        • Steglitz49

          I suspect that the lasses who got to play for Mexico were overjoyed at getting to go to the WC so they played their hearts out.

          Those lasses probably carry a picture of Jack Charlton inside their smartphone covers and have an Irish Wolfhound in a picture on their wall if not a real one sleeping at the foot of their bed.

          • rkmid71

            Or Chicharito. Or Ronaldo.

          • Steglitz49

            Jack Charlton was the first NT coach to systematically scour the leagues (mainly the English one to be fair) for players eligible to play for Ireland even by the slenderest of threads.

            Under Jack, Ireland reached the QF of WC-90 and either 6th or even 5th in the FIFA rankings.

            It used to joked as long as your grandma had kept an irish Wolfhound, big Jack could get you cleared to play for Ireland.

          • rkmid71

            Didn’t Charlton and RK butt heads a bit? Or maybe that was pretty much everyone with RK. I’ve got to stay loyal to my guy. Or maybe the hatchet has been buried. Long live Triggs. But why wouldn’t the Mexicans do the same as Canada has been doing? Did you know the Mexican Hairless and Irish Wolfhound are in the Top 10 ugliest dogs?

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you. I did not know about the dogs.

          • CED

            Stupidity as expected!

          • Steglitz49

            Your lack of true knowledge of soccer is astonishing. Not just your ignorance of WoSo but even BroSo.

            Name 3 WoSo players whose names start with an M. (Too easy I know, but we have to humor him.)
            Now 3 starting on L.
            How about 5 starting with an A?

          • CED

            Please stop embarrassing yourself. I know more about the game than you wish you did and I embarrass you daily showing your stupidity.

          • Steglitz49

            3 that star with M: Marta, Morgan and Miyama
            3 that start with L: Lindahl, Linda and Lauren
            6 on A: Ada, Andrine, Aya, Aya, Alexandra and Alexandra.

          • CED

            You have to be retarded!

          • Steglitz49

            Here are a couple of more pearls:

            on A you have Azusa and on L you can score with Lena Lotzen, Leonie Mayer and Melanie Leupolz, who of course, gives you another 2 Ms.

          • CED

            Go away retard. Nobody is playing your juvenile game. This is exactly what a child does when they are proven to be wrong. They play silly games to try to not seem as ignorant as they have proven to be. You’re clearly mentally disabled.

          • Steglitz49

            You, Droll, Chief Executive of Trolls, could with benefit contemplate Healey’s First Law of Politics.

            Here is another M for your collection: Karina Maruyama.

            Next you can start by naming some S-ess.

          • CED

            You’re clearly retarded. No go cry and the corner like a good child b/c people are to smart to play your stupid game. Your desire to seem relevant, stated 100 times over months is pathetic.

          • Steglitz49

            Droll, Chief Executive of trolls, do you want to advance to naming WoSo players with a J or a K in their name?

            I have given you many starters so this one should be easy. Too easy.

          • CED

            Your a pathetic child trying to play a stupid game b/c you have gone full tilt after been shown for the fool that you are for the 100th time. Go away retard.

          • Steglitz49

            Droll, Chief Executive of trolls — have you contemplated Healey’s First Law of Politics yet? If not, please do.

          • CED

            Have you contemplated how now to make a fool of yourself? How about having an ounce of dignity after being made to be a fool about the game for the 100th time? Instead of going away after being embarrassed once again, you as a true psychofant resort to a transparent game. You think you’re saving face while instead showing just how stupid you are. You’re the dumbest and biggest @ssclown on here.

          • Steglitz49

            You passed on the “S” though they are dead easy: Sawa, Seger. Samuelsson, Sabrina, Schult, Stephanie and Stephanie for starters

            K is easy: Kawasumi, Karina, Klings

            J — Jessica, Julia, Joelle

        • CED

          Again, what has the full NT for Mexico done? They are a mediocre side at best.

          • rkmid71

            I vaguely remember in 2011 WC qualifying it was Canada and Mexico that somehow made it through. And the USA was forced to qualify in a playoff with Italy. And Alex Morgan saved our bacon with an extra time goal in the first leg in Italy. But I guess you’re right, their highest ranking in last 13 yrs. was #21 in 2011. They are currently 27.

          • Steglitz49

            Indeed. Maybe this new crop can take them higher. After all, if Canada can why not Mexico?

      • Bruce

        I don’t think that is what is at work here. I lived in Mexico for 10 years and can attest to the fact that there is virtually no soccer culture for female players. Over half of the Mexico starting XI grew up in the US, right?

        This is absolutely all about coaching, IMHO.

        • #1Fan

          Soccer culture knows no gender. Its not where they grew up. Its the families they grew up in and the culture within. My kids grew up here, but they live and breathe soccer. Its on TV in the house, we talk about it. Its part of my culture. They grew up around it.

          • Steglitz49

            In a lot if not all nations, women in sports get precious little notice. The media consistently ignore them except possibly when they are world leaders in an individual sport and even then they should be good looking.

            The US is no different if you look at the sport sections. Women are lucky to get 1% of the exposure of men.

            Obviously, in certain families the girls get the encouragement and support they need to develop but that is the exception rather than the rule.

            As far as I know, there is no Title IX in Europe and Asia — and with the incoming President Title IX may be in the danger zone.

          • Bruce

            “Soccer culture knows no gender.”

            That may be the case in your household, but does not reflect my experience in Mexico or with Mexican-Americans.

            I live in a pretty diverse community north of Chicago where about 20% of my daughter’s classmates come from first and second generation Mexican immigrants. Her school’s boys teams are almost entirely made up of Mexican Americans. My daughter is the ONLY girl of that heritage to even play. My experience in club soccer is – sadly – the same.

            You may find outliers, but for the most part sports in general are not promoted as an option of Mexican and Mexican-American girls. Participation level is pretty low, and the US born standouts that play(ed) for Mexico like Huerta and M. Sanchez are entirely products of US soccer systems and culture.

          • #1Fan

            Is that not partially do to the social make up of the sport in the USA ? I think you miss my point. Im saying that the Sanchez or Huerta families probably like soccer. Im saying if I go to a Mexican American family at random, it is likely they know soccer. Im not saying the sport is promoted at all. Culture and promotion are not the same to me. What I’m trying to say is once the barriers to entry are overcome- many of these Mexican American kids have an understanding of the sport that is gained from family, friends and being around the game. Supporting a team etc etc.

            A lot is lost in translation on the Internet.

          • Breakers fan

            Just out of curiosity – and you don’t have to name it – but do you have in mind (assume that every college-eligible player was willing to red-shirt) a, for you ideal starting U20 lineup from your knowledge of players of that age? If so, how different would it have been from the starting lineup we saw? Or, maybe you don’t know enough players to say for sure. Or perhaps you wouldn’t make that many changes to the lineup? Just trying to get a sense for how big a problem or miss you feel that was for this team.

            Also, I get your point about soccer culture and think that in Mexican-American families a love for and interest in the game is probably more likely to filter down to the kids from the parents than in lots of plain American families.

          • rkmid71

            What also may filter down in a Mexican American family more than typical American family is if a brother or siblings are playing and soccer is the main family sport, then the whole family is out there (and with their friends in community) competing and having fun playing. Like what I did playing basketball with my uncles, aunts, etc when I was really young. Heck my aunt scored 60 pts in HS game once. I learned from her. And especially from my uncle who was really good. My dad was more of a wrestler. Those family games were competitive … though I would get crushed over and over until I got older like 15-16 (and they got a bit older). My uncle actually quit before I could beat him 1v1. I still remind him of that. There are some older immigrant communities (Irish, Hungarian, Germans, etc) who did the same thing who really got soccer going in the US. So it’s not only Hispanics.

          • #1Fan

            thank you both. I think you understand what I am trying to say. We are all products of our environment to some degree. The family/home environment is a big one.

            And agree. Im not saying its only Mexicans. Its All the ones you mentioned and Serbs , Africans etc etc

          • Breakers fan

            Thanks for the stories – enjoyed them. My example is similar – my Dad exerting a baseball and basketball influence, my older brother for various sports, and 2 Aunts who were very good tennis players. The immediate and extended family can and does have a huge impact/influence in getting a youngster onto an athletic track and often in specific sports.

          • atalba

            This is my experience as well. But would you say this translates today with competitive club sports? The barrier of the cost of sports could be considered for all, but there are many families that can’t see the value of investing in their daughters. My experience is the complexity of diversity is much less than the surrounding population for competitive soccer.

          • rkmid71

            Probably doesn’t happen as much as it used to. I think you’re absolutely right about some families not investing in their daughters. My daughter’s club team had a Liberian American girl for many years in U7-U11 ages who was a great player. But she had older brother, I believe now playing in 2nd tier Europe leagues, who got most of parents attention and they had big hopes for. The rest of the parents on the team picked up the slack. It worked ok as long as team played more locally. But the better the team got, the more travel to find better competition and eventually the college showcases, etc.then it got to be too much. I think the girl quit altogether and didn’t even play HS. I’m still amazed by that. That’s the type of player I would hope would be covered by scholarship in new GDA and wouldn’t fall through the cracks — but I even wonder whether that would have been enough. It’s also the time commitment of the parents, etc

          • Steglitz49

            Lack of money and lack of return on investment.

            The daughter might well have reached the stars but the 2nd tier male pulls in more money: a lot more. No contest.

          • Steglitz49

            Verily.

          • atalba

            Yea, you’re still not on target. It’s not the culture of sport. It’s the culture of females/families. Your statement can be made about any sport. It’s not about the sport, or the culture of the sport in the household. It is changing in the U.S., and it is changing slower for Mexican-American families.

            The culture of sport in the U.S. is different than in most other developing nations. There are barriers in the U.S., namely money. Most all youth in the U.S. who play sports, play in organized sports. So you may not be familiar with this barrier, and which type of Americans have that as a barrier to support their kids in sports.

            It’s great that many girls have access to sports in America, but it costs money. The higher level of competition, the higher the price. Social stigma for females in sports is a global issue; even in the US.

          • #1Fan

            You have an axe to grind and its obvious. I am not talking about the barrier and I am well aware of it. All the stuff you are talking about is fine and even relevant to the broader issues affecting women’s sport,but has very little to the point that I am trying to make.

          • atalba

            This is something I know a lot about. Sofia Huerta may not be a good example of the culture of Mexican-American families, but there are many players and families that do.

          • Bruce

            Understood, although the subtleties are tough to see at times. Thanks for clarifying.

            I don’t want to lead us down a rabbit hole, but will sign off saying that the value of soccer-knowledge/culture is readily available to boys in both Mexico and Mexican-American households. Maybe a tenth of that value is passed on to girls. That – I think – will take a generation to change.

          • Steglitz49

            Hear hear! You are on the money.

    • CED

      Can you people cry and hyperventilate more? It’s hilarious and pathetic. Mexico would die to have a program like the US. The Mexico female NT falls apart at full NT level.

      • Steglitz49

        Remember 2010?

        • HOFCToDi

          The USWNT qualified for the 2011 FIFA Women’s World Cup, dumbass.

          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_FIFA_Women%27s_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA%E2%80%93CONCACAF_play-off)

          You truly are the dumbest poster on this message board.

          • Steglitz49

            Alex Morgan rules OK.

  • jdee26

    MICHELLE FRENCH’S ‘AMERICAN WILL POWER SOCCER’……

    1.Base formation: 4-4-2.
    2.Athletic players ; technical skills not that important.
    3.Midfield not that important; all players simply fall back to defend if under massive attack by more organized opponent.
    4. Reliance on the long ball to keep the ball away from goal area even if it ends up with your opponents.
    5. Prepare to play half of the game in your own half of the pitch.
    6. Players fit enough to chase organized opposition need apply.
    7.Reliance on the individual heroics of a couple of players.
    8.When under pressure kick the ball hard even if it ends up with the opponent.
    9.Run around chasing organized opponents: American ‘spirit’ will prevail at the end.

    • Barca Rondo

      Your spot on all of this is correct. Real football people on this site. i 2nd everything you said.

    • #1Fan

      Here is the rub though. Many of these players have been in the NT pool for a long long time. French did not pick them initially. The skills they have were enough to get them selected by other coaches. So whilst I get what you are saying. French is just part of that system.

  • Bruce

    Replay of second half and extra time is up. Not pretty.

    https://youtu.be/W_Y9GLe0QmQp

  • nwslfan

    ok. I caught the second half. that was appalling. APPALLING. this is the u20 world cup. I started counting 3 pass strings. NK had loads. USA had 3. The most shocking bits were the routine decisions to force the ball forward to nobody instead of connecting on a back pass and just booming the ball in a super optimistic hope that a speedy forward could get on the end of it on a 1v3 opportunity. NK had many 3v3 breaks in the attacking third. The USA midfield had no shape, no connecting. It was invisible. Seems implausible that these players could not play better with some better direction and guidance from the coaches. I have not liked Michele French for several years, but she should resign in shame from this performance. but I don’t think she will. I don’t know what French has on Heinrichs, but Heinrichs and French should both go.

    • HOFCToDi

      Soccer is a niche sport in the USA.

      Student-Athlete Participation
      1981-82 thru 2015-16
      NCAA Sports Sponsorship and Participation Rates Report

      ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/PR1516.pdf

      page 79

      Soccer only accounts for 11.0% of the DI female student athlete population.

      • Steglitz49

        Indeed. But a few of them get to stut their stuff on the world stage.

    • Steglitz49

      You play with the midfield you have. You can’t play with the midfield you would like to have — except if you left behind much better midfielders than the ones you selected.

    • HOFCToDi

      Role models for little girls across the USA.

      timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/si-olympics-cover-the-greatests-jpg.jpeg?quality=85&w=1100

      si.com/olympics/2016/08/16/

      Yup! No soccer players.

      • Steglitz49

        Muhammad Ali will always be The Greatest.

    • HOFCToDi

      The consummate role model for little girls across the USA.

      youtube.com/watch?v=pIdBCnxRsHQ

      • Steglitz49

        Mikaela Schiffrin is another example. I suspect that some if not more girls prefer the slopes.

    • HOFCToDi

      If you think the women’s side is screwed up, the men’s side has that beat:

      sbisoccer.com/2015/07/episode-talking-more

      The best soccer rant in calendar year 2015.

    • Breakers fan

      2nd half was worse than the first, and the 2nd half was the worst half of the tourney for the U.S. That said, what you wrote is accurate and is cause for concern. In addition to the perceptive soccer critiques people are making — about our youth system needing to change (a big long ongoing process that is probably underway to some extent), the idea that the best possible team was perhaps not assembled, – I think by that point of the tournament and game some degree of fatigue in our players had set in, (more so than for other teams, as we chased a lot) and some amount of desperation in their play was guiding them more than it had at earlier points in the tournament. I’m not trying to justify their play at that point, just trying to maybe help explain it.

      I do strongly feel that if any favoritism exists in how they select team members that has to be eliminated immediately and forever.

      They made the final 4 of 16 – not bad, but not what we expect from our teams, all things considered. It could be that in this age group, at least at this time, – minus the top college players of that age who were not selected for whatever reason — are just by and large good to very good players but not great ones, save a couple of them. There’s no absolute guarantee that a great # of fabulous players exist at every age group – ones who are chosen for their age-group NT at least. One would think that with a country our size they would be but I’m just saying that it’s not a Law of Nature that they will be there. I applaud their efforts – they won easily the toughest group and went to OT in the semis. Still, like everyone here, I was hoping for more and better. Time moves on, they’ll continue to work on their games. I hope it’s an enjoyable process for them.

      • Serena

        They won easily… What did you smoke?

        • Breakers fan

          I meant they won *easily-the-best-group*. I thought that interpretation might arise from how I phrased it- sorry about that.

          • Serena

            Thanks. Sorry for being harsh

      • nwslfan

        Hi Breakers Fan. It seems that some teams or coaches get their players into camps more often than others. For example, yes Penn State won college cup last year, but it seems remarkable that six PSU players got looks for this tourney. (And I am a Nittany Lion myself, but gotta call bs when I see it).
        I saw at least one club coach grouse on twitter that his protégée was a super creative player who red shirted college this year at the demand of USSF only to play zero minutes in tournament. That does not seem like development was a priority. Rather, it looked like Coach French did what she thought was needed or appropriate to get “results” e.g. bunker with 2 banks of 4 against frankly stronger teams like France and NK. I observed a lot of desperate defending on the back foot against both of those teams. We looked our best against our weakest opponent, NZ, but I was not wowed by how we played France or NZ, nor wowed by the results. Did not see much to be pleased with in terms of development (yikes) or results (meh).

        • Breakers fan

          I agree with your analysis.One difference I guess: I was pretty wowed by our NZ effort – just because they had beaten Ghana, and Ghana was a PK-away from going up 3-1 late in the game against a strong French team. We just looked sharp and crisp in that NZ game, but I do grant that they were the weakest team in our group.

          And yes, I too felt bad for those players on the U20 team who rode pine exclusively or almost so. I wondered if French told them specifically beforehand – “right now you’re not a starter and it’s possible you won’t get a lot of playing time. You may, it’ll depend on how things go over the next few months but be forewarned that it’s possible you won’t see much gametime. Do you still want to come?” I bet that conversation didn’t happen but I don’t know. They still may have had a great experience overall and would make the same decision again. May I ask, which player was this supposedly very creative player who didn’t get in?

          I think I’m just trying to get it deeply into my head that this is where we are in the world now at this age level – pretty much across all age levels. We’re competitive with the best but we’re losing our edge, our top dog spot. The world has caught up and is passing us in some ways. It’s just the reality of things now. It’s not pre-ordained that the US will win. It’s different from how it used to be. And that’s the basis on which we have to proceed. Eat some humble pie, dig in and go to work. I’m going to lower my expectations as a fan. Not my hopes and not my belief that we can be better, can be the best, but I’m not going to necessarily expect that we win everything. I will give credit to other teams as much as I may critique ours.

          • rkmid71

            The US has never won the U17 WC. They’ve won 3 of 8 U20 WC and finished 3rd once and 4th once. The USWNT had a 16 year WC dry spell. That may be better than every other country, but It’s not like we should have every been too comfortable thinking we were pre-ordained to win.

          • Breakers fan

            Right.I didn’t know that history exactly, so thanks for that info. I think the relative success of the ’99ers may have had a disproportionate effect on the psyche of a lot of fans. Then the 4 of 5 OG wins also may have helped perpetuate that feeling. THat said, we do have the makings of the best team in the world with our participation levels,so it’s not outlandish for fans to want it. But to assume it, expect it, automatically, I think has become a bit out of touch.

          • rkmid71

            Yes, a bit out of touch particularly with this group in charge who seems to have their head in sand. Or otherwise moves at snail’s pace to improve things, and apparently seems to think everything is just great anyway. 1,000% like JK. I’ll be really curious to see what new CBA looks like.

          • Steglitz49

            The CBA will not be generous to the ladies. It may not rape them but the officers will not get fat with the new CBA. The crew will get more.

            Whether in the long term it can match the resources of the teams across the pond, heaven only knows. Of the last 8 in the ladies Champions League, 6 teams are sidekicks of rich men’s clubs.

          • Breakers fan

            Would be interesting to compare how our U20 practices are held – exactly what is done, what drills, what teaching is done, what is said – to those held by Japan and Korea DPR and France, for starters. What are they doing that we aren’t, specifically?

            Or are the training sessions actually pretty similar, and is it more a lifelong habit of style of play – to oversimplify things — that is being attempted to alter and that happens slowly?

          • Steglitz49

            I heard that allegedly the coach of North-Korea wants his girls to be equally comfortable using either foot.

            I don’t know whether he organizes special training sessions to strengthen their weaker paw or whether he looks for two-footed players. I guess a bit of both but am not sure.

            Japan I suspect follows Norio Sasaki’s principles.

          • rkmid71

            Korea DPR training session. Now that’s an interesting image. What comes to mind is the Soviet ice hockey team in the 80s and 90s. Not the version coached by the inspiring coach Tarasov, but by the harsh coach Tikhnov. Hockey was a way out of poverty. That team was close knit born out of adversity and endless hours together. Amazing championship team and quality of hockey. Korea DPR is not at those heights, but the poverty and the harshness of it sounds comparable.

          • #1Fan

            When people who know some of these details for the US side try and pass it on, they get insulted 🙂 So ill leave it

          • DNG

            Well I appreciate any of the details you or anyone else with knowledge provide. I imagine there are some pretty significant differences though.

          • mockmook

            I think it is pretty clear that they aren’t currently practicing possession soccer — so, it doesn’t matter how they were “raised”.

          • Breakers fan

            How much do you want them to practice a sort of Japanese possession style of soccer? I get the sense that many here would love nothing better. I’m torn. I’m not sure the present players can be reined in enough to do it after playing for so long only a semi-possession style. I get the feeling that US Soccer is trying to move in that direction. How that’s done exactly, nationwide and at all age levels well, I don’t know.
            Or do we continue along our same path, more or less? I feel we will try to “turn Japanese” over the next 10-20 years. Not sure how well the experiment will work, however.

          • DNG

            I think I am one of those you may believe wants to see a Japanese possession style utilized. I actually don’t want to see the US play like Japan at all. I like watching direct up and down play a lot more than watching Barcelona style tiki-taka. Where the USWNT and I have a falling out is with their inability to break down defenses when a good team decides they are going to sit back. That for me signals that the US need a better balance in their attack. I don’t actually think the US should stop utilizing their athletic advantage. I think there just needs to be a higher baseline level of technical ability from those athletes compared to what’s it’s been in the past. A player like Press for example I think provides a good balance of speed and skill.

          • Breakers fan

            I probably would have put you into that category so it’s good to hear how you feel about it. A few reactions:
            1. I’m with you on this. And I think as a nation we have adopted more proficient technicality as a goal in and of itself, so I think wer are moving in the direction we would both like to see.
            2. Next, you get the occasional great athlete who isn’t as good technically as some around her, but she’s a better athlete and she has a proven track record of success. From what you wrote it sounds like you would want, would play – meaning start – such a player. I would. Of course you would want her to keep working on her touch and ball control skills but you would want her on the field. If you play her you shouldn’t then grouse about some instances in-game of technical imperfection if she is providing significant gains for the team otherwise. You accept her for what she is, because what she is good at no one else on the team can do. Because you highly value elite athleticism you play her and accept her. Do you agree with that point of view?

            3b.Press in a sense represents a sort of ideal to a good number of people, myself included, though I’m not as extreme as some. She is both a very good athlete – blazing speed, and technical ability – excellent with both legs shooting, able to get free for shots in tight spaces, a hard worker who is a good passer too. But she screws up too like everyone with either occasional poor passes or shanked shots, and she is yet to burst through and have a great National team moment, though one can say that her opportunities to do so have been limited – at age 27 I would agree with that assertion. The point I’m trying to make about her is that you don’t find that many forwards just like her. It’s just rare. Same can be said of Crystal Dunn. Morgan supporters would say “hey, what about her, with her track record?” I would say “yes, indeed, you have a point.” So, in the end my point is: It’s hard to find that ideal mix that you speak of in a player. The tremendous athlete, I mean the Outstanding athlete, the elite, exceptional one who has all the other qualities you want – technicality, smarts, whatever else you want to list. So, if you accept that you just aren’t going to find that many like her, or them, then you are forced to either accept who you do have instead, and not be forever bemoaning what you don’t like about each one, or you just say “I love her great qualities but I am going to keep complaining about her shortcomings.” A sort of “have your cake and eat it too” scenario. That’s up to the fan to decide about his own conduct on the internet.

            4. The U20 World Cup that just ended, largely, for the U.S. Those games provide a set of data, so to speak. What do you do with that data? First, what is the interpretation of it that you (the universal you, but you personally can answer if you wish) give? What did it mean? From it, what do you as US Soccer management do? What changes – either in approach or in actual roster decisions – do you make, if any, taking into account that these players are only 18, 19 years of age?

          • Steglitz49

            Please see my comment to DNG.

          • DNG

            On point 2. In the case of this hypothetical player I am not strictly against the use of great athletes who lack technical proficiency at certain positions. I think they should be utilized at positions like outside back and wing back. I disagree that some of these players can ever really overcome how far behind their ball skills are. They will always be somewhat limited there. Let’s take a player like Dunn as an example. For me right now though she’s a wing back or outside back. I can get behind her playing forward more if she improves her finishing because she is constantly finding ways to get into dangerous positions. She’s probably unmatched at beating players 1v1 of the dribble and getting to end line or cutting in. Right now though, she doesn’t finish a high percentage of her shots and she doesn’t add a lot in terms of ball movement inside when marked tightly. In fact when good teams don’t let her isolate out wide 1v1 she can really struggle to be effective at all. I don’t think the passing and movement in the tight spaces will be something she can ever really improve because that’s not just a technical skill, it’s also vision and soccer iq. Those things are not things that develop late in players. Overall, I think Dunn is a very good player right now but crucially limited in certain situations against the best teams playing inside which modern wings have to do.

            On point 3. I don’t think there is such a thing as a perfect player. I may just prioritize certain skills differently than you or other commenters do. Press is far from a perfect player. One noticeable area she lacks in is strength. I don’t think she’d ever be effective isolate up top alone. By comparison I don’t think Morgan is as effective up top alone as she is with a target partner in a 4-4-2 but she’s certainly a better lone forward option than Press. Lindsey is probably the only forward with the strength to hold up play long enough to bring the attacking midfields into the attack. Lindsey noticeably slower(not as quick) than all of the other forwards but if used correctly I’d wager she could be just as effective. The reason I complain about some of those player’s shortcomings is because I don’t think their skill is always up to the level that I am looking for. In the case of Dunn I would always play her and allow her to attack as a wing back/outside back but wouldn’t play her up top or centrally right now. In the case of Morgan, it may well turn out that she’s still one of the top two forwards, but there are some others I’d like to try there as well, Press and Horan among them. I think we saw that Lynn Williams’ skill set isn’t really that far off from Morgan’s in the latest friendlies.

            As an aside, I’m sure I’ve mentioned this before but the quality of opponent is crucial for evaluating talent. Lots of times the athletes can just run right past most of these inferior teams but run into real problems when a team can take that speed away from them through tactics or can match them physically(Mbock defending Morgan at Olympics).

          • Breakers fan

            I’ll respond in more depth later (gotta go somewhere) but good stuff here. I agree with almost all of it. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

          • Steglitz49

            I put it to you that there are perfect players. Not too many of them but there are a few.

            The crux is that most players play one or max a couple of positions. Only if you play Total Football, which few and far between teams do, do you need players comfortable all over the place. Indeed, it is the limited register of individual players, that makes Total Football teams rare as hen’s teeth.

            You could turn it around and think in terms of the most influential player in a team. That could be the captain, by definition, joking apart. Even those chosen as the MVP in a match or a tournament, do not always get chosen on that basis, more often for playing spectacularly.

            It will be interesting to see which USWNT players chose to play abroad. Alex Morgan clearly is looking at the Lyon option. Will she, won’t she? Who else will leave the US for new fields? Anyone? And, how much will they earn?

          • Steglitz49

            The sad fact is that the player you name wilts under pressure. She can’t stand the heat but has not had the sense to leave the kitchen.

            As for the rest of your comment, it is well recognized that there are three components necessary — ball-skills, acceleration and vision. The Golden Generation had all 3 in spades.

          • mockmook

            In the long term, I think it is essential for future success of the team.

            Still, I don’t expect them to be Barcelona tomorrow — and they should always take advantage of their athleticism when possible.

            But, this year’s U17/U20 teams didn’t appear to even try to keep the ball, didn’t appear to place any value on possession. It is mind boggling.

          • Breakers fan

            I do think we need to improve in this area too. I’m with you. It is just so impressive to watch the Japanese do what they do. The question is: How far do *we* go in that direction?

            I think our teams – U17 and U20 – for most of the games (the 2nd half or 2nd half of the 2nd half and OT vs Korea DPR being an exception) did try and keep the ball. We just weren’t that great at it. We were against NZ – not a bad team – – they beat Ghana, who were a minute from beating France. Now our overall lack of great success at keeping the ball — that’s either because the players that we have just aren’t good enough yet or they’re not properly trained enough in how to do it. It’s probably a combination of both factors.

            Ready to watch the NCAA semis?

            Who do you want to win?
            Who do you think will win?

            I want USC overall – both want and think will win. The other game — I don’t have a clear favorite. I don’t think UNC is a great team. I’ve only seen WVU for about one half of one game this year so far.

          • mockmook

            I guess I favored UNC over WVU, but I’m happy that now Dorrance can’t go to a recruit and guarantee them that they will win a Championship if they stay with him for 4 years. That’s a BIG change, the UNC era is officially over — they will always be good, but never again dominant.

            And, I clearly needed to have Abam on my radar.

            Jeez, Georgetown or USC — give me the underdog (Georgetown?).

            I’d bet on USC — very interested to see how Andrews responds. Also, glad for a chance to see some Corboz.

          • Breakers fan

            I too wanted UNC – have seen them a lot this year. Scrappy team, very few if any stars, but they’ve found ways to win. Gotta commend you for your noticing of Andrejewski early in the season. Tough miss last night but she had a great year. I have to say that I was pissed when Dorrance took out Castleberry in the 2nd half – she was playing very well and just because it’s his routine to take her out at a certain point of each half he did it again and 2 minutes later his sub fouled the WVU player that led to the free kick that Abam scored on (great goal – I agree, she’s radar-worthy, a Junior) . I like UNC’s keeper a lot – Lindsey Harris.

            It was great to finally see G-town. First time basically for me. Corboz is good -but I’m not close to knowing “how good”. Not a lot of data about her from last night’s game. Didn’t like how like Heath she gets cute and takes some free kicks/corners with her non-dominant foot (left) but she seems like a good and cerebral player who is passionate about the game. How about that absolutely astounding defensive play by G-town’s Chloe Knott? One of the best I have ever seen!

            Excellent USC goal – the accurate, nicely-weighted pass from Andrews, the textbook play then from Katie Johnson – intriguing forward for later in the draft. Mandy Freeman will be taken quite early in the draft. Thinking 1st five picks. Breakers if they want her will have to spring for her at #3. Doubt they’ll do it but those are the conditions I think that will be operative. I really enjoy watching Savannah Levin, Cami’s sister. What a relentless worker – good player. Not sure if she’ll get drafted or if she’ll have an NWSL career but it seems maybe feasible.

            Your thoughts on the USC-G-town game?

          • #1Fan

            Andrej is not my type of player at all. Have seen her often in HS and club. Her strengths – fast, big, decent shot, willingness to take on players off the dribble . Weakness – IQ, consistency, no real position.

            I knew she would do well in College. She fix UNC perfectly, but I really don’t see her playing at the next level. She is great example of the differences between what it takes to be good In College and what it takes to be great at International level vs the better teams.

            Just my 2c. I know you appreciate it 🙂
            LOLOL

          • rkmid71

            I have seen her often too, without giving too much detail, and have similar assessment for the time being. Very individualistic player. And there are more athletic forward options without the shortfalls. I don’t ever like to write off a player as anyone humble and smart enough, able to take criticism constructively and a hard enough worker can and often does prove people wrong.

          • #1Fan

            Just my opinion 🙂 Did not meant to sound like I was writing her off.

          • Breakers fan

            I appreciate that. I do defer to those with more observation normally and I am not disputing your findings or really offering a strong counter-argument. I like that you spoke of both her strengths and weaknesses. I haven’t focused on her that much, to be honest, am just know of the accolades she has received as a Freshman, thus my commending of mockmook in mentioning her early in the season. Glad you spoke your mind about her.

          • Breakers fan

            Your thoughts about Corboz the Younger at this point in time? If memory serves you have seen her play a good deal, correct?

          • #1Fan

            Clever player, but I don’t think she does enough from open play.

          • Breakers fan

            Thanks. Do you see her as a 1st round pick next year? (I think she’s a Junior…) Admittedly with the lack of resources for scouting I acknowledge that sometimes 1st round picks are so due in some part to reputation rather than 100% accurate scouting, so I guess you should add whether you think she deserves to be a 1st round pick next year or the year she graduates.

          • #1Fan

            I don’t really like ascribing picks to a player because who knows what an organization needs. I think she does a lot of high profile set piece things really well, but l don’t see her as a franchise type player. The light does tend to shine on teams that makes College cup runs so I think she got a good mount of shine. i think there are better attacking midfield options around.

          • Steglitz49

            The North-Korean coach wants his players to be equally comfortable using either foot because it speeds up the game. I am not sure whether he makes his charges train up their weaker foot (most likely) or whether he selects two-footed players (less likely). Seeing how successful N_K has been this year, there is a lot to be said for that approach.

          • mockmook

            Can’t disagree with anything you wrote.

            Like you, I hadn’t really watched G-town (except some lousy streams).

            The things that stood out to me from the game (things I didn’t already know) was the really, really good seniors on G’town.

            I think there is a possibility that Delaney, Thomas, Damaska, and Paul all go in the Draft.

          • Breakers fan

            All new players to me – those Hoyas. Will be interesting to see if NWSL coaches do go after those less-marquee-than-Corboz players or whether they’re blinded by the light and think Corboz is the only player on that team worth choosing. You know who I liked the most on that team? Probably the relentlessly working Crystal Thomas. Knott too, but of the Seniors Thomas really impressed me.

          • Steglitz49

            It could simply be an example of name-recognition in tandem with an unusual and easily memorable name, like Kodak, Kojak, Hermes and Roche.

          • mockmook

            My mock draft is starting to come together. Please feel free to comment (the draft follows this preamble). Did any of your mystery picks make my list?

            All the G’twn players I mentioned made my draft (picks 17, 18, 21 and 30).

            Castleberry makes it at 28

            Regardless whether you agree with any of the sequence, I think this demonstrates that any player from 1 to 40 can end up being a starter. Except for after the twelve or so “sure bets”, there just isn’t a drop-off:

            NWSL — Beta 3.0 mock draft:

            First Round:

            01. Breakers — Jordan (Florida)
            02. Flash — Buchanan (WVU)
            03. Breakers — Lavelle (Wisconsin)
            04. Sky Blue — Lawrence (WVU)
            05. FCKC — Gibbons (Duke)
            06. Reign — K.Mills (USC)
            07. Flash — Freeman (USC)
            08. Red Stars — Vasconcelos (BYU)
            09. Breakers — Driesse (PSU)
            10. Sky Blue — E.Fletcher (Cal)

            Second Round:

            11. Breakers — Campbell (Stanford)
            12. Breakers — Andrews (USC)
            13. FCKC — Shaffer (Virginia)
            14. Thorns — Kolander (Minnesota)
            15. Dash — Cephers (Va Tech)
            16. Breakers — Dougherty Howard (Florida)
            17. FCKC — M.Paul (Georgetown)
            18. Flash — C.Thomas (Georgetown)
            19. Spirit — M.Cox (Virginia)
            20. Thorns — Bauer (Stanford)

            Third round:

            21. Breakers — Delaney (Georgetown)
            22. Pride — M.Donaldson (Mizzou)
            23. Sky Blue — Crowley (FSU)
            24. Sky Blue — Hatch (BYU)
            25. FCKC — Ship (Cal)
            26. Reign — Drennan (S.Carolina)
            27. Thorns — Medeiros (BYU)
            28. Red Stars — Castleberry (UNC)
            29. Spirit — Proffitt (Marquette)
            30. Sky Blue — Damaska (Georgetown)

            Fourth round:

            31. Breakers — McNabb (Virginia)
            32. Pride — Lussi (Princeton)
            33. Dash — K.Kurtz (S.Carolina)
            34. Sky Blue — Gardner (UNC)
            35. FCKC — Jenkins (UCLA)
            36. Spirit — Stiever (Minnesota)
            37. Red Stars — R.Hill (UConn)
            38. Red Stars — Amack (Stanford)
            39. Red Stars — Boyles (UNC)
            40. Thorns — C.Ramsier (Auburn)

          • Steglitz49

            Vow! You’ve really thought this one through. Congratulations. Take an extra bow, please.

            C Ramsier at only #40. Vasconcelos only at #8. You are hard to please. A tough taskmaster, like Wolfgang Pischler.

            At least you had a go. How shall we judge your predictions? % drafted, would be one criterion. % correct order would be another? % correct team matches another?

          • mockmook

            This isn’t my final draft of the Draft — so no percentages.

            C.Ramsier is rated around #20 by the “experts” — as I said, I don’t think there is much (if any) meaningful difference in quality between #20 and #40. But, I’m all ears on where you think she should go (team and pick).

            Same for Vasconcelos (who the “experts” seem to rank even lower than C.Ramsier).

          • Steglitz49

            I don’t have an opinion. I just thought your attempt at a draft merited notice and acknowledgement, so I wrote some questions.

            I hope you turn out more right than wrong if you see what i mean.

          • Breakers fan

            Thanks for doing and sharing this. Each of us has his own personal favorites so my response may simply be me indicating who mine are. I do think that some players will be drafted earlier, with some probably much earlier than you have them: Hatch, Jenkins, Hill. Probably Bauer too. Morgan Andrews I think will go well before #11, especially if the Breakers like her – she does have that local connection – a New Hampshire native. A few players I think you left out who will get chosen. They may have just slipped your mind: Toni Payne, McKenzie Meehan, Stephanie Ribeiro – U Conn (21 goals this year). A team would be smart to pick both her and Rachel Hill, as they played together for 4 years and they speak of their chemistry together. Do you have any keepers in there? My favorite 3 are: Kailen Sheridan of Clemson, Lindsey Harris of UNC and Ashton McKeown of Long Beach St. If Cal’s keeper is a Senior – Emily Boyd – then her too. Oh, another player you left out – Cal’s “other” forward – Ifeoma Unumonu. I wonder if midfielder Annie Alvarado and defender Gabby Miranda of UCLA will get drafted. I do think right back Erin Smith of Rutgers will be drafted. I want center mid Lucy Lara of Arizona State to get picked but doubt she will.
            And no, you don’t have either of my mystery picks listed. 🙂

          • mockmook

            Jeez, how many players do you think are in the draft? 😉

            I (partially) accepted your Ribeiro suggestion, but can’t fit anyone else in. I suppose I favor Mids and Defenders. Long story short, if you suggest someone must be in, then someone must go out.

            Only two GKs (Campbell and Prudhomme) make my latest list at the link.

            Since this thread is dead, I’ve moved on to the most recent:

            http://disq.us/p/1e8c2ta

          • Breakers fan

            here are the players from your mock Draft #3 I don’t feel I can comment on adequately for lack of seeing them:

            Driesse; Fletcher; Delaney and Damaska, though I liked what I saw in that one game; the 2 South Carolina players – i saw them in like 4 games but I was always focused mostly on the other team, haha; Lussi – want to see her; Proffitt; C. Ramsier; Boyles; I do like Castleberry and thanks for alerting me to Hanna Gardner – I think I like her; M. Donaldson – no idea; Amack out all year, so no clue what’s up with her; Nice call on Stiever – she seems good.

            Oh, one more player I think will get picked: Margaret Purce, Harvard. Has been with the YNT system for a good while. I saw her against Rutgers and she impressed. I see you left Katie Johnson out – have you altered that view after the College Cup?

          • Steglitz49

            The success or lack of it for the USWNT in 2019 will have a big impact. If they win, that formula will prevail. If they lose, all bets are off. Top star pro-WoSo may even vanish from the US.

          • #1Fan

            The issue is not practicing possession soccer. Its practicing it vs higher level opponents. Its clear though that whilst the coaches may want you to believe that these are “technical” players – under pressure, when you most need that DNA to emerge, collectively its not there.

          • Steglitz49

            It is not always easy to find higher level opponents.

          • #1Fan

            Actually it really is. U15 or 16 boys teams, would be a good test. Female pros. There are many ways to get better “games” but the USSF do not think outside the box. They used to. Now they are obsessed with internationals and results.

          • rkmid71

            This is exactly what my daughter’s team did from the earliest ages as they got better and better. Scrimmage boys, older girls and eventually college players. Anything to make it hard and test those skills and teamwork and to be able to keep the ball under intense pressure and defensively keep organized and support each other. Just kicking the ball would get you taken off the field. When you lose the ball against boys, the transitions can be lightning fast. As hard those U20 players tried, it just wasn’t the right group of players in defense and midfield — kind of like the wrong tool for the job required.

            Maybe with the right coaches and time, some of those players could get up to speed. But it takes time and at this age time is not on their side. Not enough in YNT camps. It has to be in their day to day environment. That’s why I’m not a fan of trying to fit square pegs in round holes — trying to make offensive players into defensive or midfield players. Many defensive players are no less athletic or skilled than offensive and much more teamwork and reading the game and good decision making required (like when to dribble and when to pass).

          • #1Fan

            Remember that these kids have been YNT players for a long time. The USSF hand picked them and poured thousands of $$ into this group. So when you are saying – could not get up to speed – think about what that really means. There is NOTHING stopping these teams from playing fewer internationals and really honing their skills closer to home. YNT camps are usually min 7 days. OSm of these kids have been in many, so I hear what you are saying, but there is ZERO stopping the USSF from using that time very effectively. Running Beep tests and doing technical testing is not so efficient in my opinion. There is also nothing stopping these players being given development plans to work on at Club level and assessing them when they return. The facts are this group is touted by the likes of TDS as bing so great, and yet when you watch the basics- trapping, direction of first touch, decision making on and off the ball, passing range – many of these players just barely get passing grades. You can have blazing speed, but if no one can get you the ball in dangerous areas , what use is it. You can have great speed, but if you can’t make good decisions then the same applies. I know YNT players who play HS soccer. Im not trying to say HS is bad, its not necessarily, but the allure of awards, playing with classmates , easy stats etc draws some of these kids in. That says a lot to me, because there is no way your game can really improve when you are not challenged. I want the kids who recognize the weaknesses in their games and strive to get better on their own time as well is others . The US culture is full of awards, many of which, if Im honest are just not badges of excellence. They are send kids a signal that their work is done, they have arrived, and oh so many really have not.

          • rkmid71

            TDS just reflects the players handpicked and promoted by USSF. Even AH is stating a paradigm shift in player selection is needed or underway. That renders TDS useless. I agree with those that think USSF basically needs to bring new people and ideas into technical and development. Maybe get rid of full time coaches, bring back part time college coaches or whoever. And use the money saved to hire a top technical director to get us on the right track. Promote AH to the Board or something (isn’t that how these things usually work and we need more women on the Board) and have someone else do the day to day. I don’t think Gulati will be satisfied with the status quo after 2016. The business plan needs to be revised and the existing mgm’t team has lost credibility.

          • DNG

            Completely agree. Lots of players look good when they aren’t under pressure or when bad teams can’t keep the spaces in their defensive setup tight. Without practicing in those specific circumstances it’s hard to imagine players being able to handle it. Even at the senior level, only a few are able to operate well under those conditions .

          • Steglitz49

            I think what is starting the skew it is money. Money, as in real money, and money as enabling girls of poor background to get a chance.

            The USSF has money but I guess just what Bayern Munich or Barca on their own can put into WoSo dwarves USSF resources. That is just 2 of the men’s teams supporting ladies soccer today.

            American players with injuries go to Avaldsnes in Norway to rehab.

          • Steglitz49

            Let’s hope that the lasses surplus to requirement at least had some fun in PNG.

          • #1Fan

            I bet that conversation did take place and I too think that none of the kids regret it. think I already said it, but i think the US have creativity in certain areas. What they lack was a player or players who can manage the transition from defense to attack efficiently.

        • #1Fan

          Would that be Canales? Either way its chicken and egg? I think the focus on College is wrong. PSU recruit a lot of kids from the NT pool. Erica Walsh was an NT coach and has good contacts within what has become a female driven NT. I don’t think its necessarily favoritism, I feel its more that they settle on the players far too early and rarely change their minds even web faced with mountains of evidence to the contrary. I feel often it more about their desire to be proven right that it is anything else. Ill take the name out, but I know one player who started every U20 game in this WC. My older child played against her many times at Club level where she played in MF or attack. Athletic, not that great technically and not a kid I would consider an advanced game reader. Here is an extract from her bio

          Also competed with the U-14, U-15, U-17 and U-18 teams

          You see a pattern? we are essentially saying that she has been the best at her position for almost 7 years. Not impossible, but hardly likely.

          Part of the reason for all of this is the camp process itself. Ive told you guys many times they do not evaluate players equally. Every kid selected for these camps should be evaluated via ALL methods available – Physically ( Technical drills, tactical drills and the most important GAME TIME) and mentally. This does not happen. There is a massive over reliance on drills. A huge weight given to technical drills that many kids master by rote. These kids get to play the games. The USSF have lost the connection with kids that can actually play the game. In all this desperation to become “technical” we have stopped building TEAMS that can actually play together.

          They need to get people in charge who understand this if they want to improve. Every player does not have to be good at drills. Players need to do different things. I will go back to everyones favs MP and AS. For them to be as good as they can be, the need to play in freer roles. For example. If we are going to play 433, then play then lw and rw with a CF who can drop off the CB and create – a false 9 type and a CM 3 who can actually defend and pass. Or a 4231 where they could play CAM , RM or LM but with a really strong defensive pair at CDM to allow them to roam a bit. SO to get the best out of them , you need to focus on other areas of the team. You don’t need allstars at every position, you need players who will fulfill a role and do it well.

          • Steglitz49

            I buy your analysis but I also put it to you, as we discussed before, how can you truly test and spot individual players in such a large and populous country? You are needs dependent on your scouts, not just your own eyes. You trust the opinion of some and are dubious of of those of others.

            Now a major difference from say 2008 is how the international field has tilted. About hen much more money from the rich men’s clubs and FAs in Europe started being put into their WoSo. It really took of in 2011. On top of that in 2010 Japan sailed up on the WoSo horizon.

            It is a bit like the car industry 45 years ago.

          • #1Fan

            im not looking at the intl field. Im looking internally at the players selected and the soccer they play. The outside world is a bit irrelevant to that. Ghana, Mexcio etc are simply focusing on playing good soccer. The US should do the same. Results will follow

          • Steglitz49

            Agreed. I was not crystal clear.

            What i meant was that up to about 4-5 years or so ago, it probably did not matter too much if you did not find the perfect diamonds in the US because the other teams did not have that much to offer. Now it increasingly does because they do.

            The WCs, the U20 in 2018 and seniors in 2019, will tell us more than we might want to know.

          • #1Fan

            Understood. I still think the US have diamonds, but I don’t think you can fit all of them on one ring and have it look good 🙂

          • Steglitz49

            Navel studs. Navel studs.

          • rkmid71

            In the future, it seems the new GDA is meant to address that issue. Many of the NWSL teams are involved. So they are bringing it more in house. It probably has a better chance to consolidate talent than ECNL and if it’s lower cost and subsidizes lower income player families they might succeed in casting the net wider. Presumably they will trust the opinions of coaches of those GDA teams who will see the players up close every day. Hopefully the selection and tryouts for those GDA teams is thorough and objective.

            Are you familiar with Moneyball? I wish there was more historical data on players in soccer. I think you would find something similar to baseball. That the collective wisdom of soccer insiders (including players, managers, coaches, scouts) is subjective and flawed. You would find players undervalued by the market in terms of what produces wins on the field.

          • nwslfan

            Thanks for your insights. I’ve heard French talk about USSF “investment” in a player. I feel like this “investment” is weighted too heavily and has much to do w ego of NT scouts and coaches who assert a player should be in a camp and then keep getting call ups due to said investment of resources. Agree with your flexible approach

        • atalba

          Don’t be fooled. The player pool is large and unmanageable because there are so many players. There are clubs that stand out year after year. These players are exposed in tournaments all across the nation every year. The teams they play also gain exposure. One thing to remember is that it is player development, not team development. All college coaches and NT team coaches have seen these girls play for many, many years.

          What they want to see in camps is speed of play. Playing with their athleticism and decision-making at even a higher level. They’ve seen them in their club games enough.

          Many girls are in the pool. Most don’t advance. Many others may just as good, but the players outside the pool is HUGE.

          http://www.soccerwire.com/blog-posts/which-youth-clubs-produce-the-most-u-s-girls-national-team-players/

          • #1Fan

            May I ask you how you know what they want to see and more importantly how you measure it?

          • atalba

            What: ussoccer.com: From a development perspective, what qualities do you think are needed to be successful as a player at the senior team level?
            JE: “Everything for me boils down to technical proficiency. For players to succeed and thrive at the highest level, they have to be technically proficient. In the National Team environment, at any age, everything is accelerated; the speed of play, the amount of space you have, how quickly you have to make decisions. A player’s competency technically allows them to have more time on the ball and to think off the ball. Obviously there are other qualities that are important, but what we’ve emphasized and what we’ve seen at the highest level is that teams around the world are so technically proficient that it has to be the common denominator in our National Team players.”

            How: http://www.leftfootcoaching.com/speed-of-play-and-four-types-of-speed/

            “The transition was a lot tougher than I expected,” says Pugh, a high school senior headed to UCLA. “Just the training load and intensity was so much more than the youth teams. I knew the pace and speed of play would be fast, but you can’t really understand how fast it is until you are in training with them.

          • rkmid71

            Are you saying that this group of U20 players was the most technically proficient that we have? I don’t think so. I think what JE and AH now say and what they have been doing are two different things. Or this U20 group was still the old group of players they had selected and invested so much in from U14 onwards and they had no choice. AH stated after U17 debacle:

            “We are trying to rework and redefine what a youth national team player looks like. It’s a player who uses both feet, both sides of her feet, both souls of her feet.”

            ” We’re trying to do a paradigm shift in player selection. The selection process is getting better. We’re scouting better players and getting more technical players into our program. In that regard, I think there are a lot of good things happening in that cycle. But we’re looking for the more technical, tactical, sophisticated, two-footed players, players who use the sole of the foot, the outside of their feet. Players who can manipulate the ball and are not worried about coping with the first pressure.”

          • atalba

            Technical proficiency is the common denominator. Speed of play, starting with athleticism, is the American advantage. I’m sure they know they don’t have any reason to compromise on athleticism in this country, especially for women. That’s a pure numbers statement. I presume they are working on raising our technical proficiency.

            I didn’t see the games, so I don’t know how they looked.

            I’ve read a lot about Michelle French and I believe she is the type of coach this nation needs. She’s been through the entire process as a youth player, college player, and NT player. If you know anything about Clive Charles, you’ll know she’s played for one of the greatest teachers of the game.

          • rkmid71

            Unlike you, I don’t believe speed of play starts with athleticism. It starts with soccer iq. About thinking faster and anticipation. Making decisions before you get the ball. And about ball skills. Executing those decisions in the most efficient way possible. The fewest touches. The ball moves faster than any player can possibly hope to run. That’s what Korea DPR was doing. The fastest player on the field cannot cover 10 yards as fast as a kicked ball. You add athleticism on top of that and you got something special.

          • atalba

            That’s the argument for many people. I understand. My take: you can use your example and have a great futsal team. Use my example, and you can have the makings of a great women’s team with an advantage over other countries. Just my take.

            Because we have so many players and such a large base of American girls playing, it’s a no-brainer: you can’t teach speed, size, and agility. Bring those players in and develop their technical speed.

            Smaller, closed countries like DPR have these girls taking PEDs at a young age and play with a smaller pool of players year after year. That is the difficulty of the US – so many players that play through one camp. It’s hardly enough to build chemistry. Mexico, Canada, Germany, and France are the teams at this youth level might be the best to gauge our team.

            If they didn’t get manhandled by the DPR, they’d be in the finals. Not bad!

          • rkmid71

            I want ball winners, good defenders good passers smart and quick players in midfield and defense. Players that when they win the ball can keep it working with other midfielders and defenders. Technical and tactical mental speed and reading the game starts at a very young age and its cumulative. If you don’t have it by a certain age, you’re not going to improve it much. Its similar to speed, acceleration and agility. You can’t bring in Alison Felix and expect her to become a good soccer player. And you can’t make Cousins an athletic enough player And what about the shots stats for France, Mexico, Korea DPR and Ghana.

            You might be surprised that I’m a fan of Morgan, Leroux, Dunn — not the most technical players, but good enough. I’m not a fan of Kling, Horan in DM, Long in CB, etc. Just not athletic enough or good enough defenders in those positions. I like Horan as target forward. I like Pugh in #10 because she’s more technical than most, makes good decisions most of time and unselfish mentality, and most importantly can turn quickly and has an explosive first step and can separate from defenders. There may be others I’m not aware of and I’ve seen a few I’d be interested in seeing to challenge Pugh for that role. That the U20 mids and defenders couldn’t win the ball, keep it and get her the ball on the ground in the attacking third more often I thought was ridiculous, no matter how tightly they were marking her. If not her, getting it to Sanchez. They need to focus on getting the right players for defense and mid. Need some of the most technical, most athletic for those positions. I’ll sacrifice a little technical in forward position for brute force.

          • atalba

            I’ve seen Katie Cousins play for Tennessee. I’m not sold. She was the Gatorade Player of The Year coming out of high school. I don’t know how she looked in the u20 wwc, but she’s a technical wizard. This doesn’t translate even to college soccer, let alone to the NT. She’d be great indoors!

          • rkmid71

            Not sold either on Cousins. Not athletic enough. She needs to prove it in college first for Tennessee. Very mediocre there so far. Whatever her technical skills are clearly don’t make up for lack of athleticism. That’s my point. Start with the iq and ball skills, but the athleticism has to be “sufficient”. Can you explain how French selected her given the Tennessee track record? There are plenty of technical midfielders that are way more athletic than Cousins. She was Topdrawer #1, Gatorade POY, etc. How do you explain? Because she was chosen by USSF over and over for all the YNTs?

          • atalba

            Also, JE said 8-10 player opted out to play in college instead. I know one would make a huge difference: Racioppi. She’s been on these teams and knows the process. She played extremely well last year for Duke. She’s a winner and a stud.

          • DNG

            The U-20s were outplayed in every match except the NZ one. Ghana was closer but they thoroughly out shot and outplayed by Mexico, France, Korea DPR. What’s worse is that French set up the team to sit back and absorb pressure against their two biggest tests, Korea DPR and France, as if they were the inferior side and Mexico took the game to the US for most of the match. At no point did I see fluid connections between players anywhere for the US outside of a select few combinations over the entire tournament. Overall I came away feeling as if this was a step back despite making it to the semifinals.

          • #1Fan

            So your answer is your interpretation of what Ellis says and a Pugh quote. And no idea how they measure it. OK . Thanks

          • rkmid71

            If what they want to see is speed of play, my conclusion is that they don’t seem to know what that is. Maybe they can observe with France, Mexico (comprised of US based players), Ghana and Koriea DPR. This group of US U20 players didn’t have it as compared to the players on those other teams.

      • Steglitz49

        You miss the point. The US reached the SF, lost by the narrowest of margins and may yet claim the #3 spot.

        • Breakers fan

          Steg – read my post again. I said the same thing you just said. I mentioned the positives of the US team during this tourney.

          I too would like to ask those who red-shirted – do you regret doing so?

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you. Like a lot of refs a trip to the opticians may be called for.

            As for red-shirting — I suspect that in their hearts of hearts they regret bending over for this demand. BUT they will not come out of their closets and say so because they are scared that that might be curtains for them.

            I hope that the NCAA comes down on this like a ton of bricks. My proposal is that if it happens again they lose 2 years of eligibility and 1/2 of any scholarship.

          • Breakers fan

            I would bet that maybe just a couple or zero regret red-shirting including even the ones who didn’t get to play much or at all. They may feel that overall it was a great experience that they wouldn’t trade – to become close with this group of friends/teammates, do some world travelling, and just experience what a World Cup is like from the inside.

          • Steglitz49

            I hope you are right because the opposite does not bear contemplating.

            Apart from Mallory and Ashley, the others have no certainty or security. Thus, your analysis could also be on the money in the sense that this was the apex of their WoSo careers.

  • Gary Diver

    Any pearls on the 2016 USWNT U20 roster?

    For a standard of comparison, here are the pearls from the US U20 WC12 championship team: Caril Roccaro, Crystal Dunn, Maya Hayes, Morgan Brian, Kealia Ohai, Julie Johnston, Chioma Ubogagu, Vanessa DiBernardo, Katie Stengel, Sam Mewis, Mandy Laddish, Kassey Kallman, Sarah Killion, Abby Smith, Mollie Pathman, and Jami Kranich. Lindsey Horan was playing outstanding soccer for the team until a knee injury prevented her from playing in WC12.

    Questions:
    1. Will the red-shirted players will now require one additional year to graduate from college to be available for the NWSL draft?

    2. (an aside) Any report on Andi Sullivan’s situation? Has she had her surgery yet?

    • another guest

      re Q1, red-shirted players are granted another year of NCAA eligibility so if they use all their NCCA eligibility then their NWSL draft year also shifts 1 year. However, depending on how the red-shirted player manages their academic commitments, if red-shirted player choose to graduation with their class – then they could participate in the NWSL draft when their class graduates (and give up the extra year of NCAA eligibility). The relevant NWSL roster rule (see below) uses exhausted college eligibility – or – will graduate in xxxx year

      All Players who have exhausted their college eligibility or who will graduate in the 2016-17 year are eligible for the College Draft. Players must be registered by Jan. 2017 to be part of the College Draft. If a Player is eligible and does not register, that Player will not be able to be on the Roster of a NWSL Team until the start of the Offseason Discovery Window – at which point that Player will become eligible as a Discovery Player.

      • Breakers fan

        Thanks for this. Just to complete the knowledge about it: Does the “Offseason Discovery Window” begin the day after the NWSL season ends, the day after the Final?

        • Steglitz49

          The real question is: do they consider that their red-shirting was worth while?

          If Sabrina red-shirted (as I assume) but Monica didn’t, where does that leave the twain twins? Intertwined?

        • another guest

          Offseason Discovery Window starts a day or so after the final with the specific date listed on NWSL site in the “competition rules and regulations” section.
          For 2016 NWSL season the NWSL final was Sunday Oct 9th and Discovery started on Oct 11th – as listed on NWSL site
          “Tuesday, October 11, 2016 Off-season Discovery Process Opens”

          For what it is worth.
          – if draft eligible players skip (do not register) NWSL draft then they sit out NWSL season (but can play in other leagues) and can be acquired via Discovery once offseason discovery window opens (a day or so after NWSL final)
          e.g. skip 2017 draft, offseason discoverable mid Oct 2017
          – if player is drafted but chooses not to sign with NWSL team (they can play in other leagues) for this season while the NWSL team holds rights (“college protected rights” in NWSL terms) until the start of the next NWSL preseason. Once next preseason starts the player can be acquired via Discovery
          e.g. drafted in 2017, do not sign, can be acquired via Discovery starting in preseason (March 2018) for next season

          • atalba

            Complicated, but that’s why DagnyB has to wait, correct?

          • Steglitz49

            Essentially, yes. Katie Stengel disdained the draft, played for Bayern Munich for a season and a half and then returned to the US.

            Chioma Ubogagu went into the draft but played a season with Arsenal and then returned. Daphne Corboz also was drafted by joined Man City and is still there. It will be interesting to see what her kid sister Rachel does. Likewise the Flores twins when there times are up (which may not be together).

          • #1Fan

            Corboz has left.

          • Steglitz49

            Where is she now? At Avaldsnes?

            I know she has a place at Medical Scholl. Has she decided to take that up?

          • #1Fan

            Probably home in NJ

          • Steglitz49

            I presume she will play out the season with City and try to win the Champions League with them?

          • #1Fan

            she has been released as far as I know

          • Steglitz49

            Vow!

          • #1Fan

            Junior midfielder Rachel Corboz was named a semifinalist for the MAC Hermann Trophy, the award given to the top collegiate women’s soccer player. Her sister, Daphne Corboz, was also in attendance at the game. Daphne Corboz was recently released by Manchester City in England, and there seems to be a strong chance that she’ll play in the NWSL next season.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you. I had missed all that. All I had seen was that she gushed about how important winning the Champions League was to her.

            Any idea about how it happened? By mutual consent?

          • #1Fan

            Yes, mutual consent

          • Steglitz49

            Does Sky Blue still own her rights in the NWSL? Is she planning to combine reading Medicine at Rutgers with playing for SB?

          • #1Fan

            Not sure. Id be shocked if she went to Georgetown UG to do PG med at Rutgers. Makes no sense. Rutgers would be a big step down.

            And btw, this is what I was trying to illustrate about culture and the fact that often its the melting pot kids who have soccer in the blood. Not the manufactured ones who are direct products of the p2p system that exists here. Look at DC background

            Born to French-born parents, Michel and Christine, Corboz has a dual citizenship with France. She was born in Mobile Alabama, where her father, a former semi-professional player in Grenoble, was pursuing his postdoctoral research at the University of South Alabama. Her younger brother, Mael played soccer for Rutgers before transferring to Maryland, and she was teammates at Georgetown with younger sister Rachel, who was a freshman when Daphne was a senior.

            Soccer was clearly part of her life goring up. This gave her a massive headstart in understanding the game that no book or coach or Club team or P2p system can give. Its no guarantee of success, but its a piece that cannot really be bought. I think many of the melting pot kids have this piece. Often as youngsters, they just see the game totally different to others

          • Steglitz49

            Let’s trust Daphne does well at Med School.

            I don’t know but could the fees for reading Medicine at Rutgers be lower for her as an NJ resident than studying at say Vanderbilt, Duke or Harvard? Rutgers is part of the State university system, is it not? Maybe lower tuition fees don’t apply to post-grad degrees?

    • Steglitz49

      As Barca Rondo can tell you, each US U20 squad has provided players for the senior team though it has taken them different length of time to get in. Obviously, more derive from the successful years. That stands to reason.

      Ultimately, as has been discussed before, USSF must figure out a way of satisfying the hunger and desire of the young ladies to continue i pro-WoSo lest the US will be left with an incestuous bunch that first got together in the U20 and even U17.

      • #1Fan

        Many of these kids are getting together at U-14. Thats the issue.

        • Steglitz49

          Vow! Good grief.

          Are all the US WoSo coaches Jesuits deep down? Give me the girl and I will give you the woman.

          • #1Fan

            Steg, this is part of my point. Many speak with little knowledge of any details 🙂

          • Steglitz49

            It is a scary thought, though, is it not? You make it at U14 and as long as you don’t blot your copy book, swear in Church and mind your table manners, you are in it for life!

            Do you have to get any boyfriends approved by the leadership too?

          • #1Fan

            My friend, I have tried to tell you guys things i know to be true. Many think its my opinion. Often its not. Go look at the bios of some of the players to see how long many of them have been in the pool. its a long time.

          • Steglitz49

            Is there a black market in this? Parents pass cash to scouts or coaches who take their cut and pass the rest on?

            Are we waiting for one of those abuse scandals to break that seems to be engulfing male soccer in some European countries?

          • #1Fan

            There is certainly a culture of paying coaches for favors at Club level.Absolutely. Does it translate to Id2 camp looks and more time in the shop window…without a doubt. Does it extend to NT coaching staff? Well some of them are Club coaches. Do i think they are corrupt…no.

          • rkmid71

            Darn it! I knew I was missing out on the action. Oh well. She got the scholarship at least, though without any help. One does get suspicious and a bit angry when blatant favoritism that defies common sense occurs.

          • Steglitz49

            Verily.

  • Barca Rondo

    Please fire French !! this is long over due

    & as always most of these comments are spot on, Very educated fan group here on equalizer. Klinnsman finally got the AX lets keep going and remove all bad coaches at evey level men and woman. Our U 20 program has never been this bad in it’s history. This is too important of a level to leave in the hands of a unproven coach

    Diccio or Swanson, or Mark Krekorian. Please lets have some pride in all our programs. not just the senior team

    • Steglitz49

      Please explain to us bears of little brain why college coaches should give up their cushy berths to coach teams that in the US nobody but nerds have even heard of, let alone care about?

      CED and HOFCToDi can put in their two cents worth if they can stay polite.

      • rkmid71

        They shouldn’t. Just go back to when college coaches managed the YNTs on a part time basis.There is already huge conflicts of interest like there used to be. It can’t be much worse. Reduce the overhead.

        • Steglitz49

          OK. Maybe the colleges won’t release them?

          • rkmid71

            Swanson coached the 2012 U20 team to a WC title. I don’t think that’s an issue.

          • Steglitz49

            OK.
            Then, why have the USSF not stayed on that track? Any ideas?

          • rkmid71

            Not sure. Maybe AH and JE when they crafted the development plan thought they could do better with full time coaches? Certainly those college coaches were incentivized to select some of their own players — wouldn’t that be a great selling point for recruits. Come to UVA, UCLA or UNC because you have an inside track to be selected to a YNT, WNT. I m sure all those coaches are high integrity — though the appearance would not be good. But I think that happens anyway. So I would just save the money.

      • Barca Rondo

        “nerds” lol it’s the soccer nerds & the US WNT that kept this sport alive in the USA during the dark days and kept US soccer afloat

        financially. You clearly are rather uneducated on this sport and perhaps just a cheesy fingered key board warrior. Who just started watching. Almost every player on the 2015 world cup wining team has played in various u 20 world cup events in various cycles

        Alex morgan, Syd leroux 2008, megan rapinoe,2004 becky sourbrunn, 2004 A rod 2004, kingenberg 2008, morgan brian 2012, heather oreily in 2000 Julie jhonston 2012, tobin heath 2006, ect ect

        this is a vital level for future senior team stars. dude educate yourself instead of just talking from the side of your face and insulting people who truly care about our program and support it at all levels. So dudes like you can jump on the band wagon every 4 years. some of us live this every day. The true US soccer nation. Not every 4 year keyboard warriors with cheese fingers

        • Steglitz49

          Which dark days? Those 16 years when the USWNT failed to win the world Championship?

          The fans and nerds kept telling the American people that the OG were more important than the WC. Then the people saw the Veterans treading on each other to get into the WC-15 squad. To cap it all this OG the USWNT bombed out with their worst result ever. The American people seem totally confused — if they care at all.

          Now you tell us that the U20 is a stepping stone to greatness. Duh?! Not surprising in any country but even more so in one the size and population of the US. No other country except NZ has such an easy time qualifying.

          Next year is the Euro-17. We also have the AFC Asian cup every 4th year. No rest for the wicked.

  • Barca Rondo

    My Christmas list

    Michelle French firing -TBA

    u23 womans coach firing -TBA

    April Henrichs firing – TBA

    Jurgen klinnsman firing – check

    PS4 video game

    • Steglitz49

      Greetings Barca Rondo but seeing that this is a WoSo site maybe it should be Ronda though, obviously, not Rhonda.

      No doubt you will be pleased that Barca are in the QF of the ladies Champions League where they play Rosengård and, should Barca’s lasses prevail, the get to play the ladies of either Bayern Munich or PSG.

  • Guest

    ANYWAY.

    Alex Morgan has all but inked her deal with Lyon… this is BIG news. She could be making a fatal mistake for her national team career… playing in that cupcake league isn’t going to help her game. And Lyon has an extreme backlog of forwards, many of whom play on the actual French national team. Is she going to get the bulk of the playing time?

    • guester

      It’s also a big blow to the image of the NWSL. She might be making a big mistake as far as how she is treated by USSoccer going forward.

      • #1Fan

        No way I see US Soccer changing the treatment she receives and to be honest given the CBA issues, I don’t think she cares

    • #1Fan

      i think she will be fine. I don’t think it will impact her position on the team at all. In fact I think it will help perhaps. Lets get real here, the NWSL is not helping her NT career

    • anon

      This is kind of unfair. I think playing abroad has helped a lot of players grow – Krieger, Heath, Pinoe and Press stand out as examples. Morgan has never had the opportunity to do that – and nothing much is going on in 2017.

    • rkmid71

      Morgan and France go together like wine and cheese. They will love her. And she will love them back. And from a USWNT perspective, Morgan can establish a beachhead pre 2019. Win Win.

    • ABCDE

      They are allegedly sticking Serv on some fourth division team… oh, the things we do for love

      • rkmid71

        He’ll work his way up. But the wife will become an even more global megastar. I can’t imagine the endorsement deals she’ll be able to strike.

        • #1Fan

          I don’t think she is a big draw outside the USA. I really don’t.

          • rkmid71

            We’ll see. She just needs to make an effort to learn and speak some French if she doesn’t already. Would be interested in Steg49 view!

          • Steglitz49

            S49 considers it a smart move by Alex.

            From all accounts the spirit within Lyon’s Ladies is good, the city is well placed from the point of view of seeing Europe, and has a bunch of top class restaurants.

            A team in Germany would not be a good idea because of the injury risk and the food is better in France.

          • Bart

            Krieger improved substantially when playing in Germany. Rapinoe and Heath didn’t when playing in France.

            I ignore your repeating trolling about food and wine. If that is so important why the hell are you live in Sweden or England?

            And by the way rkmid71, Steg is famous for hating Germany.

          • Steglitz49

            Tobin learnt to take freekicks as she demonstarted on her return in the NWSL Championship final. Neither Miyama nor Zlatan could have done it with more aplomb.

            I wonder who taught Heath in Paris? Was it the great man himself?

          • Steglitz49

            That could be a reason why Alex’s personal sponsors wants her to broaden her fan base. Also, she may simply want to have some fun in the last couple of years of her career.

            Lyon pulls in the crowds for important home games so it will be just like playing for Portland again.

        • Steglitz49

          A smart move iow.

      • guest

        newsflash… there are a lot of couples where the wife is the primary breadwinner these days and the husband makes sacrifices for his wife’s more promising career.

      • Steglitz49

        I would recommend Serv to take the chance to get a coaching license.

    • anon

      Does Lyon management care about the French National Team? If she draws fans, she will play. Probably not as much as she would in ORL though.

      • Steglitz49

        It is difficult to assess Lyon’s pulling-power because their attendances in the Champions League dwarves what they achieve in the D1 Feminine. Lyon has a pulling-power at away matches too.

        In the ladies Champions League
        — in Lyon vs Zürich 3800 and return in Zürich 4022
        — in Lyon vs Avaldsnes 5089 & return in A 4619 (<3000 live there!)
        — in Lyon 11732 vs Slavia Prag and in Prag 2838 (QF)
        — in Lyon 22050 vs PSG and in Paris 5858 (though SF already lost)
        while in D1 femine only 1500 in Paris when PSG drew 0-0

        When PSG played Örebro in Sweden almost 7000 turned up though average attendances in Örebro in about 800.

        The Champions League has pulling-power everywhere it seems.

    • DNG

      Hopefully, if this is true, it will be a good experience for her and help her grow as a player.

    • ABCDE

      So where does this leave CrysDunn? PSG?

      • Steglitz49

        With Patrice Lair in charge of PSG, that would be an excellent move. Given all the money at Benestiti’s disposal, PSG underperformed but with Lair’s track record, PSG would be a great place for Crystal.

        And, she will always have Paris.

    • Bruce

      Playing for Leon vs. rec-league teams will create the illusion that she’s a top forward again. Better for her image and NT career than the NWSL where she is decidedly average.

      It’s a Carli thing.

      • guest

        Alex Morgan and Carli Lloyd win things. Christen Press doesn’t. Goodbye.

        • guesting

          well, Press just did give a grassroots soccer gala speech in a ripped up body stocking, with Tobin Heath as her date.

          • anon

            her speech was very nice

          • Reality
          • Steglitz49

            Vow! Whatever next?

            Hopefully next time she has a proper designer instead of an improper one. Whom shall we suggest? Pär Engsheden would be my suggestion. Others might prefer Jean-Paul Gaultier.

          • HOFCToDi

            Nobody cares, moron.

          • Steglitz49

            Christen is wasted on the soccer filed. She should be on the screen — maybe a reality show?

          • anon

            I’m willing to test her out for another year on the field. I think she would be a good human interest story reporter, or perhaps a children’s news show host, in the former style of Linda Ellerbee.

          • guest

            lol. I think she is too nice to do sports journalism or commentary.. i like the childrens news show idea.

          • Steglitz49

            Paint with water colors and cut up papers and make dragons and angels etc.

          • Steglitz49

            Whatever floats her boat. Start as an assistant to Ellen de Generes?

          • HOFCToDi

            Nobody cares.

          • Steglitz49

            Lots care, judging by the thread.

          • Steglitz49

            What was Tobin decked out in?

          • guest

            one of christen’s old frocks, it looks like

          • Steglitz49

            Vow! Have you a picture to share?

      • annie

        what does carli have to do with anything?

        • Bruce

          Carli plays 90 minutes to pads her stats against the likes of Thailand, and the masses proclaim her the world’s greatest and irreplaceable on the NT.

          Everyone on Lyon pads their stats against the likes of Marseille (Lyon currently outscoring opponent 50-2 after 8 games) and look like the world’s greatest.

          It is *inevitable* that Morgan’s career will seem rejuvenated by moving to France.

          • anon

            Huh? She doesn’t get proclaimed the world’s greatest because of tomato can games. She performs under pressure when it matters.

          • guest

            I’m not even a Lloyd fan but to say she is famous because of her performance against tomato cans is ridiculous.

          • Steglitz49

            After the Bomb in Brasilia another descriptor might be more appropriate. Also. The Greatest will always be Muhammad Ali.

          • HOFCToDi

            You’re a moron.

          • HOFCToDi

            You’re a moron.

            FIFA Top Ten Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored
            Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 34
            Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
            Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3
            Johnston (DOB 06 Apr 1992) – 2
            Dunn (DOB 03 Jul 1992) – 2
            Horan (DOB 26 May 1994) – 2
            Mewis (DOB 09 Oct 1992) – 1

            4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
            78 caps
            2 head coaches

            Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

            garbage time
            prima donna
            selfish shot hog
            tomato cans

          • HOFCToDi

            You’re a moron.

            Christen Press has yet to score a goal versus a FIFA Top Twelve Ranked opponent in calendar year 2016.

            fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/women/index.html

            Christen Press has yet to provide an assist versus a FIFA Top Twelve Ranked opponent in calendar year 2016.

            fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/women/index.html

            4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
            78 caps
            2 head coaches

            Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

            garbage time
            prima donna
            selfish shot hog
            tomato cans

          • HOFCToDi

            You’re a moron.

            Always Alex, never Christen …………………….

            youtube.com/watch?v=zN8lBGxk7Iw

            youtube.com/watch?v=KHCa3M5gZfo

            youtube.com/watch?v=wpPUPUCqOI8

            ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/17/13/31/wnt-takes-2013-algarve-cup-title-with-20-win-against-germany

            youtube.com/watch?v=05RKP6RU7po

            ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/17/13/10/wnt-wins-group-b-at-2013-algarve-cup-to-advance-to-final

          • HOFCToDi

            You’re a moron.

            Alex Morgan was already a WINNER at the age of 19.

            youtube.com/watch?v=PacY7Enz9hQ

            2008 Goal of the Year declared

            fifa.com/theclub/news/newsid=999807/index.html

            USA striker Alex Morgan’s 42nd-minute winner against Korea in the final of the FIFA U-20 Women’s World Cup Chile 2008 is rated as the second best goal of the year. Morgan walked away with the Adidas Silver Ball and Bronze Shoe awards for her four goals and stellar performance at the tournament.

          • Steglitz49

            though in 2016 a loser

          • HOFCToDi

            You’re a moron.

            Alex Morgan is the only player in WoSo history to score and goal and provide an assist in the final of a FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Morgan#2011_FIFA_Women.27s_World_Cup

          • Steglitz49

            Aya Miyama also did but it was a couple of minutes after Alex. Miyama’s team walked off with the trophy though. Laugh best who laughs last.

            The surnames both start in M and their given names both with an A. How likely is that?
            Homare Sawa and Hope Solo have the same initials too. That 4 ways combo must be rare as hen’s teeth.

            Do we conclude that the 2011 WC final was something special? Of course it was. The ladies equivalen to WC-54.

            Morgan also induced the first red card in a ladies WC final while Miyama picked up a yellow card for herslef. Aya then netted her penalty in the pso while Alex did not take one. Alex did in Brasilia 5 years later, though.

          • Steglitz49

            Is HOFCToDi and CED the same person? Or spiritual twins? Maybe one is the malignant dwarf of the other?

      • HOFCToDi

        You’re a moron.

        Let’s review a 18 year old teenager versus a 27 year old fraud for calendar year 2016:

        Christen Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988)
        2016 Summer Olympic Games
        Goals 0, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 6, Shots on Goal 1
        Penalty Kicks Attempted 1, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

        Mallory Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)
        2016 Summer Olympic Games
        Goals 1, Assists 0, Shots Attempted 4, Shots on Goal 1
        Penalty Kicks Attempted 0, Penalty Kicks Converted 0

        Christen Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988)
        2016 SheBelieves Cup
        Goals 0, Assists 0

        Mallory Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)
        2016 SheBelieves Cup
        Goals 0, Assists 1

        Christen Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988)
        2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
        Knockout Stage
        Goals 0, Assists 0

        Mallory Pugh (DOB 29 Apr 1998)
        2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
        Knockout Stage
        Goals 0, Assists 2

        4 years (2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
        78 caps
        2 head coaches

        Christen Press has cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

        garbage time
        prima donna
        selfish shot hog
        tomato cans

      • HOFCToDi

        You’re a moron.

        Alex Morgan is the only individual in the entire USWNT player pool that has scored a goal against SWE in the last four years.

        ussoccer.com/stories/2016/08/12/19/37/160812-wnt-falls-to-sweden-4-3-in-penalty-shootout-after-1-1-draw-in-2016-olympic-quarterfinals

        ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/tournaments/2015-fifa-womens-world-cup/150612-wntvswe#tab-1

        ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/tournaments/2014-algarve-cup/140307-wnt-v-swe#tab-1

        ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/17/13/10/wnt-wins-group-b-at-2013-algarve-cup-to-advance-to-final

      • HOFCToDi

        Sunday, 21 Feb 2016
        TSG announces CWOQ Best XI, Awards
        ussoccer.com/v~13.17/~/media/images/wnt/gallery-images/2016/02/160221-wnt-v-can/photo-gallery/160221-wnt-vs-can-photo-gallery19.jpg?h=600&w=786&la=en&hash=BF5ABEEA5BE7034EF13FA4F320F9E7BB8E549331&yocs=6_&yoloc=us

        concacaf.com/article/tsg-announces-cwoq-best-xi-awards

        By the way, Christen Press is not on the list.

      • HOFCToDi

        Friday, 11 Mar 2016
        Morgan, Solo and the USA Sweep Awards at 2016 SBC
        ussoccer.com/v~13.17/~/media/images/wnt/gallery-images/2016/03/160309-wnt-v-ger/160309-wnt-vs-ger-gallery20.jpg?h=559&w=800&la=en&hash=B1A7B6E0C01C796F4C31CF422F0CC370A4D5CF89&yocs=6_&yoloc=us

        ussoccer.com/stories/2016/03/11/13/17/160311-wnt-morgan-solo-and-the-usa-sweep-awards-at-2016-shebelieves-cup

        By the way, Christen Press is not on the list.

      • Dr. Robert

        Maybe she learns to play soccer there. She already knows how to play NWSL style of kick and rush

    • guest

      alex morgan will certainly not start over ada hegerberg. the real best forward in the world. the other is just the best marketed forward in the world.

      • Steglitz49

        Never say never.

      • Guest

        i think Press is as good as Hegerberg

        • Steglitz49

          Ada Hegerberg plays for Lyon and her sister Andrine plays for Birmingham City but she went there via first Potsdam and then Göteborg.

        • guest

          for me to agree with that press would need to add an above average heading game.

          • guest

            and show it in games on the biggest stage.

    • guest

      what a disaster for the orlando pride. to give up all they gave up to get alex morgan and for her to leave after just one year. almost treasonist.

      • Rdalford

        perhaps Alex Morgan will arrange a deal with Lyon similar to Rapinoe. where Morgan would play for Lyon thru end of French league season, including being able to play UEFA Women’s Champions League, then returns to Orlando mid June and finishes out the NWSL season.

        • Steglitz49

          That makes sense.

          Alex could also if not master at least taste the art of the French kitchen.

      • Steglitz49

        This is not about improving her game. This is about earning more bucks, increasing her brand, hopefully doing the Treble and having fun while doing it.

    • Steglitz49

      Your point about Lyon’s strength at forward and attacking MF is well taken.

      I suspect that Alex will be used as a supersub, the way the “Babyfaced Assassin” made his name. That is, after all, how Alex herself got started in 2010 and 2011.

      The alternative would be to have Alex as an alternate starter. Either way, Alex will get enough time on the field to make an impact.

    • Gary Diver

      If true, it is so weird. It would be like a LeBron James deciding to join the Harlem Globetrotters for a bigger pay check. Lyon has so many stars but there is only one soccer ball on the field. They have Eugénie Le Sommer, they have Ada Hegerberg, they have Pauline Bremer, they have Élodie Thomis, and they have superstar midfielder Dzsenifer Marozsán. They need Alex Morgan like they need a proverbial hole in the head.

      The French league is a joke; Lyon last year had a GD of 111 for 22 matches. It is really an exhibition league for the top two teams. Totally a joke.

      • Steglitz49

        It is Lyon’s money and Alex’s life. They are consenting adults. They can do what they like.

        It is the brave new WoSo world once the rich men’s clubs followed Lyon’s lead and started putting money into their female side.

        Lyon is trying to win a 4th Champions League to equal Frankfurt’s total. If Alex helps them, brilliant. When Pinoe was with them they lost ot Wolfsburg in the final.

        Did Bayern Munich really need Fridolina Rolfö? We still wait to see where Stina Blackstenius and Pernille Harder will land. Maren Mjelde went to Chelsea Ladies from Avaldsnes.

        • Gary Diver

          Consenting adults can, and often, do ridiculous things. As it said earlier: Alex Morgan joining Lyon for a bigger pay check would be like LeBron James joining the Harlem Globetrotters for a bigger pay check. Being an adult should mean you have pride and integrity in yourself. Joining an exhibition league shows little pride and less integrity.

          • Steglitz49

            The Champions League is no exhibition and Lyon gets big attendances in the later stages not just at home but also away.

            Last season for thei QF against Slavia Prag they had 11,732 at home and in the SF against PSG they had 22,050 at home attendnace (not tickets sold).

            Maybe her head sponsors in the US want her to broaden her brand. The German league would carry too big a risk of injury. The French is safer. Maybe going to Montpellier would have been even better but if Lyon could get her more power to Lyon’s elbow.

            Beckham went and played in LA while Zlatan disdained the MLS to play for Man Utd. To each their own.

          • Gary Diver

            You make interesting points. Still, this will be bad for Orlando and bad for NWSL just when the WoSo “off-years” will present a big challenge for them.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you.

            Lyon play Wolfsburg in the QF. Both teams have great attendances. The winner gets to meet the winner for Hjörring vs Man City.

            Thus, if Alex wants to raise her profile outside the US, she could not pick a better team.

            Alex did not swan off to France in the NWSL first year the way Pinoe and Tobin did. She put her shoulder to the wheel and slaved in the trenches. Thus, more power to her to cash in at this stage.

  • Gary Diver

    Off-Topic Alert: Who will be the Hermann Trophy Finalist?

    The finalists for the Hermann Trophy will be announced soon. Any favourites?

    Here are the semifinalists: Morgan Andrews, Maddie Bauer, Kadeisha Buchanen, Rachel Corboz, Christina Gibbons, Ashley Hatch, Rachel Hill, Savannah Jordan, Kaleigh Kurtz, Ashley Lawrence, Savannah McCaskill, Margaret Purce, Stephanie Ribeiro, Alexis Shaffer, Andi Sullivan.

    Interesting that there are two Canadians on the list. Did Rose Lavelle have a subpar season with Wisconsin?

    • Steglitz49

      I vote for Rachel Corboz. That way she gets a leg over her older sister.

      • Gary Diver

        Apparently Corboz is a dual-citizen and her father played professionally in France. Do you know whether she can play for the French senior team?

        An aside: I was surprised when Raquel Rodríguez won last year’s Hermann award and even more surprised when she won NWSL rookie of the year award. So the Hermann Award selection committee must currently be doing a good judge of talent.

        • Steglitz49

          #1Fan told the board that her sister Daphne is back in the US having left Man City with mutual consent. I was a bit surprized at that because Man City is still in the hunt for the Champions League.

          Daphne has a place at Med School and maybe she decided to take that up.

          As far as I know they are eligible to play for France but they may not feel very French and see themsleves as Americans.

    • rkmid71

      I assume there are 3 finalists. My prediction: Buchanan, Sullivan, Corboz

      Winner: Buchanan (unless Georgetown wins College Cup, then Corboz)

      Wisconsin finished 5th of 14 teams in the Big 10. Didn’t do much special this year. Why isn’t it called Big 14?

      • Steglitz49

        Buchanan fouls too much and her fouling cost Canada the SF in the OG. It would be a travesty if she won.

        • rkmid71

          She willed the team to come back down 0-2 versus TCU in the Big 12 championship game. They put her in forward! A few fouls, but nothing nasty in that game.I watched a bit of UCLA game also. Solid. Maybe she’s cleaning her act up? If they win, it would be hard not to give it to her….assuming clean play in next two games.

          • Gary Diver

            Time will tell, but Buchanan has had a long history of nasty fouls. Her take-down foul at the Olympics on Eugénie Le Sommer in the box when she didn’t touch the ball should have been a red card and that easily could have been the turning point in that match. Only poor refereeing saved her.

  • #1Fan

    This is how it starts folks

    http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/top-150-spotlight:-rich-get-richer_aid41113

    Many of these kids are the EXACT SAME PLAYERS who the same publication is telling you failed at the U17 and U20 WC. To be considered a top player in the USA, you really don’t have to perform on the big stage 🙂 Its interesting that TDS justassumes that kids who won’t be seeing the campus for 4 more years a re “program defining” players. Honestly, its no surprise that some of these kids don’t improve. We spend all our time telling them how great they are. Why would they? All these ratings and rankings serve very little purpose.

    • Steglitz49

      The author seems surprisingly ignorant of the top Canadians at UCLA.

      I don’t know how you can fix the system given how much money is involved in the development and coaching of the US girls and young ladies game. An enterprising researcher could mine tax returns and match them to the players in the USWNT.

      Hope Solo is probably one of the few exceptions to the girls that make it into the WNT are from the top 10% if not top 5% of US social class. Christen Press comes from a very wealthy suburb of LA. I suspect both Crystal Dunn and Mallory Pugh come from more than decent backgrounds.

      I doubt that it is much better in Europe or Japan. There there are no carrots in terms of admissions to top universities and (partial) scholarships at the end of the rainbow.

      In Europe the carrot today is earning money by playing for the female team of a rich men’s club. It is not a lot of money compared to what the USWNT players have been salting away for playing tomato-cans but it keeps the wolf from the door.

      • Helm

        Wrong. In Europe it is mainly for the love of the game. Very, very few can earn money. It has nothing to do with any kind of education. Sport and education are two different things.

        I guess players in Europe come from all social classes, since they play soccer for the love of the game and their are not many financial barriers which might prevent a girl from a lower class from playing soccer.

        The big barrier are parents and tradition though. Girls are not considered to play soccer. Soccer is a boy’s and men’s sport and girls are considered to do something different.

        • Steglitz49

          “the carrot is … of rich men’s clubs” — there are not too many men’s clubs putting money into the ladies game but 6 of them are in the QF of the Champions League and there are a couple outside of them.

          Bayern Munich bought Fridolina Rolfö and Chelsea Maren Mjelde and we wait to see where Stina Blackstenius and Pernille Harder land.

          Else your points are well taken.

  • sudeep das

    Great through ball from Pugh to Sanchez, who was on-side, further strengthening her credentials as #10.
    The game going on as predicted – USA chasing the ball against a very fluid Japan. The ease with which the Nadesikos are moving the ball and the ease with which USA is turning it over are both amazing.
    Tall Murphy saving 2 certain goals BTW.

    • #1Fan

      No idea how you see Pugh as a #10. She is a winger now and may develop, but as of now her skill set is speed, end line . I have seen none of the ball retention and cleverness I would like to see from a 10. Many teams don’t play with a 10 anymore because they are rare.

      • sudeep das

        I have posted earlier about her ability with timelines in games against good opposition. So let’s keep to our own beliefs.
        Yeah this was really an excruciating and mesmerizing game to watch. Excruciating to see the US players chase the ball with no knowledge of what’s happening around them. Mesmerizing as the Japanese put on a display of technical passing that makes you want more. So engrossing was their game that the 1st half passed away in a jiffy.

    • Schnaps

      Hey Sudeep Pugh, your daughter is the best soccer player of all time (including both genders). Soon Messi will be proud to make a selfie with your daughter Mallory.

      Best greetings from the father of the second best player of all times
      Schnaps Sanchez