USWNT to discuss labor fight on 60 Minutes

Dan Lauletta November 18, 2016 630

Four members of the United States national team sat down with Nora O’Donnell for an interview that will air as a segment on 60 Minutes this Sunday on CBS. Excerpted quotes from Carli Lloyd, Becky Sauerbrunn, and Christen Press do not directly reference U.S. Soccer or the impending expiration of the collective bargaining agreement, but the implication is clear including a question from O’Donnell about athletes in other sports “battling their employers for more pay.”

Morgan Brian also appears in the interview but was not quoted in the excerpt.

The U.S. women have been at odds with U.S. Soccer throughout the year, even subtly threatening to boycott the Olympics before a ruling validated the existing CBA through the end of 2016. With the team having concluded its on-field commitments last weekend, focus will shift to hammering out a new deal with the federation. The women have argued that their wages and pay scale differ from their male counterparts at U.S. Soccer.

“I mean, we have been in some– some major– some major battles on the field but this is– this could be the fight that we are a part of,” Sauerbrunn said when asked by O’Donnell how this fight compares to other competitions the team has been in.

The players also filed a wage discrimination claim with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. That complaint is not directly tied to the CBA.

U.S. Soccer president Sunil Gulati once expressed optimism a new collective bargaining agreement could be reached before the end of the Olympics. That tournament is not more than three months in the past and the 60 Minutes segment certainly appears to indicate the recent quiet has not been a sign of progress.

The next item on the schedule for the U.S. is the annual January training camp. The 2nd SheBelieves Cup is slated to be held in March.

  • Chak Khan

    They are NOT requesting the EXACT same amount of pay the MNT get. Pay them according the profit the team has generated. Promote their games more with TV exposure and advertisement. They make money. USSOCCER makes money. Simple. Really.

    • CED

      They made a profit 1 yr in their history and that was based on attendance of 10K more per game than hey ever had in history. They tried to base a salary demand on an anomaly.

      • guest

        “They made a profit 1 yr in their history” A non-profit is not supposed to make a profit. The question is do they generate enough revenue to cover their expenses, and I think the answer is “yes.”

        • CED

          Are you stupid? They have covered their expenses once in 30 years. Revenue minus expenses for them is negative 29 of 30 years. Most years it’s a massive negative with expenses way more than revenue. They have been massively overpaid based on their revenue for decades, something you’re clearly not smart enough to realize. They have been a” ward of the state” their entire existence. Oh wait, you’re really probably not that stupid, but are guided by emotion over facts. The problem with the entire WNT equal pay demand, facts don’t back it up.

          • guest

            If we had separate financial statements for the men’s and women’s teams, we would know how much they each make, but, looking at US Soccer’s income statement, the two numbers are combined, so it’s impossible to tell. Where are you getting your financial data?

          • CED

            Read all 200+ pages of the annual reports. The WNT has been a money pit.

          • Steglitz49

            I find your arguments hard to believe because since WC-11 the USWNT matches in the US have been well attended.

            You may well be right about 2000 to 2010 but after that they made hay in the sunshine.

          • CED

            You’re clueless Look up the FY financials on revenue and expenses.

          • guest

            Can you provide a link to this annual report?

          • captainfate

            I’m an accountant and I’ve read the annual reports – you can’t conclusively state that the WNT has been a money pit unless they actually split out the expenses among the WNT/MNT/age groups. Which they don’t. They only split the revenue. You can’t see the exact split of MNT/WNT marketing/admin cost, and you ESPECIALLY can’t see the MNT/WNT split in coaching expenses. Klinsmann takes up $2m of coaching payroll alone (and I remember there isn’t much after you take out the $2m).

            The impression I get is that the WNT are still getting a profit, though a much smaller one compared to the MNT. Their margins, however, could be very different. But I wouldn’t be able to tell unless I have access to their management accounts/general ledgers.

          • Steglitz49

            I put it to you that 2011 to this year they USWNT has been well in the black.

            Granted, 2000 to 2010 may have been in the red but that is water under the proverbial Eiffel tower.

          • CED

            You’re clueless as expected. WNT has not been in the black since 2011. They have been in the red every year in their history except FY 2016. FY 2017 will be close but revenue is down about 4M plus from projections

          • Steglitz49

            Hey, HOFCToDi or his spiritual sister, supra occuli meam pullam woolam non possible.

            Simply do some rule of thumb math and you will see that your argument holds no water.

          • guest

            His statements are not credible without a link to his source data.

          • CED

            You just need to go to USSF website FY financials are there. You avoid facts by necessity to keep your delusions intact

          • Steglitz49

            Just type in the salient figures for us, there is a good coach.

          • guest

            I’ve read the income statement and the 990 (tax return) on US Soccer’s website and there’s no breakdown by men’s and women’s.

          • CED

            Revenue for each team has been releases dumble dorf..it’s miserable for WNT. Have you not followed the fiasco of the WNT the last year? The info is out and it exposes their demands as delusional. You want people to force feed you info b/c you’re not bright. Idiots like you won’t believe info unless they get it themselves anyway. You won’t try to find it b/c you know the truth..the WNT is a money pit and has been since it’s exception save 1 yr.

          • Steglitz49

            Just type the figures starting in 2010 and forwards. Profit and loss. Three columns. 7 rows + an estimate for 2017.

          • guest

            Here’s the link to the tax return. Now please be a good man and tell us on what page the women’s revenues and expenses are shown.

          • DNG

            Here are the expenses for Year ended March 31 2015. I only looked through it quickly so I might have missed it, but I didn’t see a similar break down for revenue generated by each team.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3e18f26d636c2bdfc55b538b5935ee7a7b182f39303934871408e969db23eb26.png

          • guest

            That’s from the income statement notes. I couldn’t find the revenues either. Supposedly they’re in the tax return. We’re still looking.

            It’s amazing that they spent 3 times more on the men’s team. Even if they generated 3 times the revenue, it would be hard to do. Hotels, planes and meals that cost three times as much? This was for 2015, so it wasn’t because they went to Brazil. I wonder how management justifies it?

          • JL

            It’s Fiscal Year 2015, which went from April of 2014 to March of 2015. So the men’s WC was included in the expenditures that year.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you. That is now clear. Much obliged.

          • CED

            Look up the annual general meeting report each year. It’s the compilation of all the info in an easy way. Here’s 2016 meeting this year which gives actual numbers for 2014 and 2015 . By lookin for other years you find for other years info . http://resources.ussoccer.com/images/160127-AGM-PDF-FINAL.pdf

            WNT Event Revenue
            2014 6,937,008
            2015 3,160,386

            WNT Expenses
            2014 8,158,506
            2015 8.569,556

            WNT
            2014 loss 1,221,498
            2015 loss 5,409,170

            These losses don’t include the NWSL portion of salary paid by USSF which was 1.4M in 2015

          • Steglitz49

            Is the $5M in 2015 accounted for by the costs of playing in the World Cup?

          • CED

            These are Fiscal years …Wcup 2015 is FY 2016. The year 2016, this past OG is FY 2017. Simple explanation, FY 2017 is April 1, 2016 thru March 31 2017.

          • Steglitz49

            Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was just the English who stayed with the 1st April fiscal year and that the ROW were working on 1st Jan.

            You live and learn.

            How come if they “only” lost $1.2M in fiscal year 2014, how come it jumped to $5.4M in 2015? An accounting error?

          • CED

            Look at FY 2015…Not great attendance at home games. They made 3 foreign trips, Algarve, Brazil tourney(in the fall), and games away vs England and France

          • Steglitz49

            The Algarve is the Algarve — or was. It was always meant to be a cheap caper but the US upped the ante a lot for their players compared to those of the other nations. It was not well received because it was seen as not playing the game and not entering into the spirit of the Algarve.

            You cant expect all teams to come to you. Traveling is part of world soccer.

          • CED

            Just explaining the numbers. Algarve is money pit that USSF has ended via SBC. Instead of losing money they produce 2.4M in revenue and 1M+ in profit. Numbers for USWNT get bad when they travel unless it’s Canada. There is not good competition close by like in UEFA. Traveling from UEFA to UEFA opponent is equivalent in distance/cost to state to state travel in US. When US go abroad they go a week early which adds a lot of cost. There are also only a handful of countries USSF feels are worth traveling for. No point in traveling to Europe to beat up on Romania, Switzerland, etc…They only travel for Germany, France, England, Brazil, Japan and China when they were a top team.

          • Steglitz49

            That is in the nature of the beast.

            Instead of screwing the Mexicans in the NWSL, the US could have helped build up a nation on their south border. Even the President elect could not have done a better hatchet job BUT it is in truth an own goal.

            As more money flows into the ladies game in Europe, so the European teams will grow stronger. The USWNT will still be one of the top 3 or 4 in big tournaments but they will still only have 2 chances per cycle to prove it.

          • mark antoine
          • mark antoine
          • Steglitz49

            Thanks for providing those summary figures. They are most helpful. How come CED could not?

          • Lorehead

            Those figures also don’t include revenue from several major sources, including TV rights and merchandise. These are worth tens of millions of dollars for the men, the women and MLS combined.

          • USMNTfan4life

            Interesting to hear that. Can you verify what you wrote above?

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you. His $4M missing can be accounted for by no Victory tour, Nothing strange about that. Infact, it ought to be more than $4M but I guess that USSF made conservative projections.

          • CED

            How stupid are you? Very and you prove it with every post.

          • Steglitz49

            The reason that USSF prefers for the USWNT to play in the US than abroad is that they make a pile of money and have since WC-11. Even when they share 30% of the gate with the visiting NT, the USWNT still pulls in the big bucks.

            That does not mean that the USWNT pulls in more money than the USMNT. It just means what it says: by WoSo standards the USWNT in the USA is a big income generator.

          • CED

            How stupid are you? You clearly have no clue about financials. Please show all this money IN FY 2011, 2012, etc..Btw, I have looked up the numbers and am ready to laugh when you make up BS. Hint FY 2011 WNT revenue from games was 3.95M before any expenses such as player salaries/bonuses, event expenses(field rental), etc…Player payments in FY 2011 were 2.67M. So just revenue – player costs leaves just 1.3M.. They still have event cost per game that run 250k-300K,,,They lost money just like each of the years before.

          • Steglitz49

            Why would the event costs per game be $250k-$300k? I dont doubt you but what are those costs?

            I can accept that playing in WC-11 can have lost money because the prize money for coming 2nd was not that high but that is a recurring cost of playing in tournaments. The MNT earn a lot by simply getting out of their groups in the WC.

          • CED

            When you have a game it’s not free to use the stadium. It’s usually set up with a set fee period or smaller set fee and % of ticket sales. There are other misc costs to any event also.

          • Steglitz49

            The standard to hire used to be 20-30% of the gate or as you type some hybrid arrangement. Thus if the gate was $1M, then the rent would have been $200-300k, which fits with your figure.

            4x1M = 4M. Did they only play 4 matches in 2011?

          • guest

            the uswnt is certainly not in the black for 2016 after their rio olympic disaster.

        • guest

          he is saying the uswnt made a profit once in their 30 year history. all the other years, revenue didn’t cover expenses. he is not talking about the ussf. a non-profit doesn’t just cover current year expenses. it has to budget for future year investments and expenses.

    • Serena

      They just have 4 important games in a year. The rest are fun events against tomatoe cans. They earned massively over the last years. They live an extraordinary live and are still complaining. Very unlikeable, spoiled bunch of overhyped athletes

      • Steglitz49

        Given that they screwed up royally this August, they need to be taken down a peg or two, maybe even five.

      • guest

        More like 4 important games twice every four years. It is a bit of a joke when you really think about it. People only started caring about this team recently. If you really care about growing the sport in the US, imo invest more in the NWSL

        • Steglitz49

          2017 will be the litmus test. All WoSo action will be in Europe.

          In May there will be the ladies FA Cup Final at Wembley. Again, kids go in free with an adult who is charged about $25. Tickets in the executive suites are $125 including all the hoopla.

          On June 1st (Canada day) there is the Champions League final in Cardiff in Wales.

          Then we have Euro-17 in the NL.

          • Bakkar

            The FA CUP Final at Wembley is THE non event of women’s soccer in 2017. Nobody is interested in the national cup final of a second level EU league

          • Steglitz49

            The match is shown live on main network and last year 33,000 trotted along. How many were at the NWSL Championship final?

          • guest

            That Wembley was only a third full is condemning of support for woso in England.

          • Steglitz49

            33,000 is 25,000 more than 8,000 however you look at it.

          • Oh Canada

            Might want to reread your calendar.

          • Steglitz49

            1st July?

        • JD

          Absolutely.

          Invest in NWSL, invest in youth acadamies, invest in better coaches.

          And they may also spend more money for some friendlies abroad.

          But don’t feed those egomaniacal USWNT super-super stars who consider themselves as the chosen ones

          • Steglitz49

            Hear hear!

          • guest

            that’s true. every single one of the uswnt is replacable. especially considering the size of the us player pool.

        • guesttt

          why should the NT women give up money they’ve earned to effectively donate it to the NWSL?

          • JD

            Cause they stated that it is a social movement…

            And I think they don’t want those NWSL players feel treated as second class citicens

          • Steglitz49

            Playing for the NT is an honor. Getting paid by your club is work.

          • guest

            why should the usmnt and the ussf give up money they’ve earned to effectively donate it to the uswnt. the uswnt has only made a profit once in their thirty year history. all the other years they expenses were bailed out by the usmnt and ussf.

      • Ethan

        They might be against tomato cans, but Olympic/World Cup qualifying matches aren’t just fun events. Plus, the final this year was against Canada (a non-tomato can team), and despite everybody claiming that the final had no relevant importance, I believe it did impact seeding.

        • Looper

          It didn’t. They would have been top seeded even when losing that irrelevant match. Those USWNT players are already heavily overpaid compared to all other women soccer players.

          They live in a paradies but feel treated as second class citizens. Let them play friendlies in Romania, Africa, China and not always at home in a circus shows against tomatoe cans in order to get some sense for reality

          • Steglitz49

            Can they honestly enjoy some of these one-sided games?

            Winning over England and Germany, yes; but against some of the other teams, they must tell themselves that they are doing an act of kindness, helping them to grow their game.

          • Looper

            Stop your nonsense with arguing that those games are growing the game. If you believe that you believe everything.

            Those home circus events doesn’t grow the game at all (at least not outside the US). The fangirls are happy, the USWNT player’s egos getting bigger and bigger, some statistic freaks are happy about new records and US Soccer generates cash

            And PLEASE don’t come back with your stupid Japan 9:0 argument. If you want to repeat yourself write something about Zlatan, John Terry or the freekicks of Tobin Heath. There might be some truths in those stories

          • Steglitz49

            I put forward the theory that the US players “must tell themselves …” because how else do you describe the nature of those games? As like unto rapes?

            You do not have to be a fan of the USWNT to know that so far this has been a miserable year. The worst result ever for the seniors. Humiliation in Jordan in the U17 WC. BUT. There is a silver lining because if the U20s do OK, the Madison Ave snow-machine will do the rest, like it did in 2011.

            Sweden’s WNT suffered its worst defeat ever in OG-16 with a 1-5 thrashing by Brazil. In the QF Jessica Samuelsson was back at back and Stina Blackstenius come on after about 12-15 minutes and they found their groove. Glory, laud and honor all around!

            Neither the Swedes nor the German WNTs played success tours. In Sweden the clubs gave flowers to all who had played in OG-16 both their own and those in the visiting teams and not just Swedes but Canadians and anyone. Equals before the fans.

          • Kevin

            LOL… you completely overreact to everything, don’t you.

            How long did you expect the USWNT dominance in major tournaments to continue?

            The simple fact is that other countries are starting to catch up and this trend will likely continue.

            20 years ago there were only a few teams that even had a chance to beat the USWNT, now it’s probably 15. Expecting them to finish in the Top 3 in EVERY World Cup and Olympics is laughable.

            If the USWNT wins the 2019 WC, no one will care or remember the 2016 OG.

            World Cup >>>>> Olympics

          • Steglitz49

            Me thinks you does protest too much.

            Failing in such a miserable way as in Brasilia will soon blow over. How many Canadians remember 8-1 in 1981? And that Gretzky, Lafleur, Trottier etc were among those taken to the cleaners that night? Thus, your observation about 2019 is on the money.

            The ROW has always considered the WC >>>>> OG as you put it BUT because the US was impotent during the first 3 WCs of this Millennium, the US had to tell themselves and the American people that the OG were not just as important BUT more important than the WC.

            Starting to catch up? Starting when? 2000?

            More young ladies play soccer in the US than in Germany, Japan, Norway and Sweden combined. Of course the USWNT must dominate. If it can’t, who can? Dominatrixes of the world: unite! All you can lose is your bonuses and victory tour loot.

    • Steglitz49

      They should be paid by their clubs and their clubs should be reimbursed for the time that they spend doing NT duty.

    • Kevin

      The USMNT just played the 2nd match of the hexagonal, the World Cup Qualifier, and most of America was unable to watch it as it was on NBC Universo and broadcast in Spanish.

      That’s pretty sad for the MNT.

      They’re so bad that no one wants to watch them.

      • Steglitz49

        How does that help WoSo in the US?

        • Kevin

          Where did I say it helps WoSo in the US?

          • Steglitz49

            You implied it.
            It doesn’t.

          • Kevin

            No I didn’t, you misread it.

          • Steglitz49

            You are the communicator. I am the recipient. It is up to you to sell your wares. Caveat emptor, and all that.

          • captainfate

            I believe caveat emptor applies to the buyer, not the seller, so if *you* thought Kevin implied that it helps/doesn’t help woso, that’s on you, not him.

          • Steglitz49

            Pedantry. Pedantry helps WoSo how? Like going out in the QF of OG-16 to a team that was taken to the cleaners by Brazil a week before.

          • Kevin

            LOL… yeah, it’s my fault your English comprehension is poor.

          • Steglitz49

            You sound like Mrs Bill. Donald had the right idea.

          • Kevin

            Nice of you to finally admit that you misread it.

          • Steglitz49

            What does that make you? A twice over loser?

          • Kevin

            Apology accepted. Now go away troll.

      • CED

        Each country in Mens CONCACAF has rights to their home Wcup quals. All US home games rights are owned by Fox/ESPN. Costa Rica can sell their rights as they wish. Many of the spanish speaking countries have rights with NBC Universo or Bein

        • Kevin

          It was a very important game for the USMNT and no one picked it up. That means there’s not enough interest.

          • CED

            OMG you’re dumb. Do you have to think to breathe? Do you understand what tv rights are? How they work?

          • Steglitz49

            Probably not. Help him by explaining the facts of life to him.

          • Kevin

            Don’t be a stupid jackass. If there was enough interest, someone would have paid enough money to air it.

          • Steglitz49

            FIFA bundles the ladies WC with the mens WC. You cant buy the rights to the mens WC without also buying the female version too.

            The reason for the bundling is lack of interest from the networks in the ladies WC.

          • CED

            IDIOT!!!!..COSTA RICA WAS THE HOME TEAM. THEY SOLD THE RIGHTS! NOBODY ELSE WHO DOESN’T HAVE THE RIGHTS CAN AIR THE GAME! HOW GODDAM DUMB ARE YOU? IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INTEREST, THE RIGHTS WERE SOLD BY COSTA RICA.

          • Kevin

            You can’t possibly be this stupid, can you?

            Do you have any clue how the world works? Money talks. It’s supply and demand. If the demand was high enough, someone would have outbid them.

            Don’t bother replying, you’re blocked for being a stupid troll.

          • Steglitz49

            You must run them thar adverst, ma’an. No adverts for 45’+ in soccer. None.

            In WC-14, -15 and now in PNG they have cooling/water breaks after 30 min. They last 3 min. Maybe FIFA is sneaking in ad/breaks under a cloak of player safety?

          • CED

            You really are that dumb. Yes, you need t block people b/c they are showing how much of idiot that you are. You have no idea how tv rights work. You’re to dumb to live.

          • guest

            Fan interest in the hex on soccer sites way down this year, judging by number of comments, sad really. I didn’t want to leave a trollish comment, I felt so bad for them.

          • Steglitz49

            Felt bad for whom? The fans? The sites?

      • JL

        Not their fault. The home team controls the broadcasting rights for WCQ in CONCACAF.

        • Kevin

          And they can sell those rights. If USMNT soccer was big, someone would pay enough for the rights.

          • Steglitz49

            Has it ever occurred to you that all the games that are big on TV in the US allow endless breaks for adverts. If there has not been one for a while, they call a technical time out to run ads.

            It is not in the networks interest to promote soccer. The networks have soccer where they want it but men’s soccer is even so breaking out and threatening the status quo.

    • guest

      of course the uswnt don’t want the same exact pay as the usmnt. the uswnt actually want more than equal pay with the usmnt. they want the same bonus as the usmnt but they also want to keep their guaranteed annual salary and benefits which the usmnt don’t get. not exactly equality. the uswnt don’t want pay to play. they want as much of their money guaranteed annual salary as possible. the uswnt should be pay to play just like the usmnt with equal pay to revenue. that would be true equality.

    • guest

      the ussf does make money…from the usmnt for the last 30 years.

      • Chak Khan

        My question concerning the profit the USWNT has brought in; nothing to do with USMNT.

        • Steglitz49

          guest’s argument is based on the USWNT not having made a profit in the past. If you believe the tax documents, that may have been the case, however odd it seems.

  • Paul Klee

    Thoughts

    Are these the new player reps? If it is nice age distribution.

    Christen Press looks like she’s the lawyer for the other three, specifically Sophie from “Kill Bill”

    Press is a better speaker than Alex Morgan.

    Can’t wait to hear what Morgan Brian has to say.

    The best argument they have is that they can’t play on the Men’s team. Other than for reasons of technical ability baseball football basketball and hockey don’t by rule ban females.

    • Steglitz49

      football as in FIFA or as NFL?

    • Rufan

      Of the original five, Solo, A. Morgan, and Rapinoe are missing. Who was the union head?

      • Steglitz49

        “Send in the clowns!” springs to mind.

    • rkmid71

      I agree. If such a rule exists, they should eliminate that ban as part of their concessions.

      • Paul Klee

        It’s a FIFA rule.

        • rkmid71

          Then USSF should lobby to get it revoked, if they haven’t already. The rule is pointless. I know there have been a few female basketball players that were given a chance in the NBA, but really before the WNBA was in existence. And some on the PGA Tour (Michelle Wie) and probably other sports too.

          • Steglitz49

            Think of it in the reverse. How many men do you want on a female team? More than enough. Should WoSo be one token woman and the rest men?

          • rkmid71

            You made me remember the controversy about Renee Richards. This was a guy who played on the men’s pro tennis circuit in 1970s. In 1975, he had “sex reassignment surgery” and became a she. She was then denied entry into the 1976 US Open by the USTA. The USTA then began requiring genetic screening for female players. She disputed this policy, and the New York Supreme Court ruled in her favor in 1977 in a decision in favor of transsexual rights. Men have to go through a hell of a lot to compete in women’s pro sports.

          • Steglitz49

            Que?! What has this to do with the subject at hand?

            I would put it differently. There IS an explicit rule against mixed gender teams as the Painter typed. This rule was tested in 2004 when Celaya, a Mexican Second Division team attempted to sign Maribel Dominguez a star of the Mexican Women’s team. But FIFA blocked it.

            In England, the FA recently voted to extend the age at which “mixed gender football” is permitted, from 16 to 18 years. I am not persuaded that that is a good idea but the FA runs soccer in England. Allegedly, NL and CH allow mixed gender football until 19, while Ger and Italy it stops at 17.

          • Paul Klee

            I could imagine a female NFL kicker as a possibility.

          • Steglitz49

            If the block does not hold or the placer fumbles, what then?

          • rkmid71

            That’s the risk they take. Don’t expect mercy in the NFL. Kickoffs would be more dangerous.

  • newsouth

    i don’t keep track of the financials but know there are some that do on here. are these women really underpaid based on revenues they bring in? in wc/oly years they make in the neighborhood of 250-300k minus any sponsorship monies. in the 2 off years, based on what i saw with sauerbrun they earn about 150k or so? again, the men are 3rd tier athletes in america. they can also earn big bucks from sponsors when they are given a spot on the nt. again, it’s a nt, not a club team.

    • Steglitz49

      The Bomb in Brasilia cost them about $100-150,000 each. It was a bigger loss for someone like Crystal Dunn who did not get to cash in in 2015.

      • CED

        Your obsession with 1 game long ago became pathetic, but expected from person obsessed with another countries’ NT.

        • Steglitz49

          It is a fact that because they were knocked out in the QF of the OG/16, there was no Victory tour nor was there any other tour.

          The NT matches that have been played since Brasilia are standard friendlies, not Victory tour matches.

          Also, they got no bonus, I can’t remember what it was meant to be but $75,000 rings a bell.

          Playing like turnips against the Swedes had a big price tag. Bigger than what the Swedish players each earn in a year.

          • CED

            I know all the financial, you don’t. Losing in PK’s is not a bomb. Your obsession is pathetic and shows a severe inferiority complex.

          • Steglitz49

            Going out in the QF of the Olympics is a bomb. No matter how much lipstick you slap on that pig, it ain’t gonna hunt.

            Worse for the USWNT, because they were impotent in the world cup until 2015, they talked up the OG to the American people. Hey what? They were hoisted with their own petard.

          • CED

            Sweden has won what in the last 20 years. You’re the whipping boy of Germaay, France, etc…hence your inferiority complex and obsession with another countries’ NT.

          • JD

            The troll achieved what he wanted to achieve….

          • Steglitz49

            That must be HOFCToDi or his spiritual sister. QED!

          • FlyingSquirrel42

            2016 Collective Bargaining / 60 Minutes Thread

            CED

            0 goals
            0 assists
            2 comments about Sweden
            9 general insults to other posters’ intelligence

          • Steglitz49

            He did not lash out at Christen so maybe there is hope for him yet. I bet he fancies Christen.

            oth it supports the notion of it being his spiritual sister.

          • Kevin

            Looks like I’ll have to add CED (aka HOFCToDi’s twin sister) to my ban list.

          • Steglitz49

            Your version of the EQ will soon be as boring as Paul Klee’s.

          • Arcie Tillydee

            *ding ding ding* We have a winner!

            DNFTT…

          • Steglitz49

            CED is not even correct because in WC-11 Sweden in spite of playing with 10 players beat France to finish 3rd. Sweden had already beaten the US in their group game.

            His point about Germany does not ring true either because in the WC-03 final Sweden lost on a Golden goal (remember those) and in this OG final the difference was an own goal.

          • Kevin

            Going out in the QF isn’t a bomb unless you’re redefining what ‘a bomb’ truly is.

            If they didn’t reach the group stages or got embarrassed, it would be a bomb.

            The USMNT being 0-2 in WCQ with a 4-0 loss to CRC, which could have easily been 7-0 or worse is ‘a bomb’.

          • Steglitz49

            Good grief ma’an. Hear yourself type. If you believe that hogwash, it goes a long way to explaining why WoSo in the US does not hack it in the market place.

            Being turfed out in the QF of OG-16 is the worst result ever by the USWNT in a major tournament. That is the harsh fact. No sowjob will change that.

          • Kevin

            LOL… as I said already, you have no idea what ‘a bomb’ is.

            it is their worst finish ever, YES.

            Was it ‘a bomb’. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

            Earning 1 point and coming in last place in Group B of the 2014 Algarve Cup and finishing 7th is A BOMB.

            Losing in the quarterfinals on PK’s (coin flip) to the #6 team in the world is not even close to a bomb, no matter how many times you say it is.

          • Steglitz49

            In the 2014 Algarve the USWNT was missing both Alex and Lauren.

            There was no Lauren in OG-16. JE had better get her skates on and find her new Lauren.

            The fact that you can’t understand, that Brasilia was a Bomb for one side and a Miracle for the other, says more than you would like to think, let alone understand.

          • Kevin

            That’s an excuse for 2014 Alagarve. It was a bomb.

            The fact that you think the #1 team losing to the #6 team in the world is a bomb just proves that you don’t know what ‘a bomb’ is.

            A disappointment, yes.

            Underacheiving, yes.

            A bomb, no.

          • Steglitz49

            I doubt that the American people care too much about the Algarve Cup but they watched the OG-16 matches live on TV.

            I wonder what the viewing figures were for the QF in Brasilia? Did 10m tune in? Less? 3m? Any idea?

      • Rufan

        It would have been $75K bonus for a gold and $25K from US Olympics, plus $1.8M total for the victory tour, and whatever add ons.

        • Steglitz49

          Vow! More like $200,000+.

          $1.8M : 18 = $100,000 each.

          Not many WoSo players in Europe earn even $75,000 a year and only a very few get >$100,000.

          • Rufan

            Dunn for ’15 missed out on the $75K gold bonus and victory tour ($1.8M/ 23 players) plus $15K bonus for making roster

          • Steglitz49

            The Veterans had to be satisfied.

            I wonder what the Veterans actually did to get such a sweet deal? Does anyone know?

      • Chak Khan

        You’re stuck on OG26 loss and Dunn’s. Other players missed the opp, too. Too bad. Life happens.

        • Steglitz49

          Que?!

  • Steglitz49

    Was this recorded before or after the Bomb in Brasilia aka Miracle on Grass?

    • Hans Castorp

      Having a worst finish ever does mean they’re performing as well as the men, to be fair.

      • Steglitz49

        The men brought home a lot more lolly from the WC than the ladies did.

  • truf

    oh god, “we are america’s dream team” slightly delusional.

    • Steglitz49

      Nightmare?

    • guest

      the uswnt players lost all touch with reality after the tickertape parade. it was all downhill from there.

  • JL
    • Steglitz49

      The 2nd to last paragraph starts — “As Becky Sauerbrunn puts it, when the Women’s National Team heads to Rio this summer to compete for its fifth gold medal …”.

      Unfortunately for WoSo in America, the women had their worst major tournament ever. Ever. Bombed out in the QF. Not even pig iron.

      By all means expose SUM.

      Please note that FIFA sells the TV rights for ladies WC as a bundle with the men’s. You can’t buy the men’s WC TV rights without also buying the women’s. Smart guys those gnomes in Zurich.

    • rkmid71

      I don’t know how you reached your conclusion about the damage. Interesting article. I do agree about need for much greater transparency. And how SUM came to have WNT marketing rights (and not USSF?). If they’re not worth that much, the WNT should offer to buy them back. Or we can raise a fund from capital contributions of WNT fans to buy them back if the players can’t scrape up the money.

  • guest

    the uswnt tv sympathy tour is back again!!!! guess they know they can’t rely on hillary clinton to bail them out now.

    • guest

      i am waiting to hear President Trump’s reaction if any uswnt players continue to kneel for the american anthem prior to games. especially when that same player stands for the anthem of military dictatorships.

      • Steglitz49

        Does the President-elect know what WoSo is? Would you care to define WoSo to him? Who plays it with whom for what?

        • rkmid71

          Doubtful. But he likes sports. And he wasn’t afraid to take on the NFL 20 yrs ago. I would tell him that WoSo is a huge opportunity. Needs somebody with big vision. US WoSo is #1 in the world. The liberal elite are controlling it. On the men’s side, he can do soccer diplomacy with Mexico and on the women’s side with Canada and maybe even China (remember ping pong diplomacy with China).

          • Steglitz49

            I guess he could appoint Alex Morgan as Minister for Sport?

          • Chak Khan

            What type of soccer would be playing over the wall, or fence?

          • Steglitz49

            As long he can make a buck out of it, he will be in favor.

            As for WoSo, he might propose that the kit worn in beach volleyball has advantages.

          • Chak Khan

            Man, you are pathetic.

          • Steglitz49

            If the kit is good enough for one female sport, why would it not be good enough for another? Women as women.

          • rkmid71

            No worries. There are still the tunnels.

          • Steglitz49

            in soccer called “nutmegs”.

          • Chris

            Dump likes to use other people’s money in his deals. I doubt he lost one cent on the NJ Generals.

      • Chak Khan

        If it was up to him, there would be no WoSo only beauty pageants in skimpy kits. He would rehire Blatter.

        • Steglitz49

          Seeing that several USWNT players have been quick to drop their kit for personal gain, he is on easy street.

          If he has any opinion about WoSo it may either be that it is a market with tremendous growth possibilities or he considers it a game played by impotent Communist dykes.

          • Steg Patrol

            Your homophobe comment should get you banned.

          • Steglitz49

            The USWNT bombed out in Brasilia with its worst performance ever in a major tournament. Much of the blame for that debacle seems to be heaped on Pinoe.

    • USMNTfan4life

      I agree totally. The WNT lost alot of leverage with their loss in Brazil, and their patron saint in Hillary Clinton, who lost her bid for the White House. This is the second major interview (Today Show being the first) and I get the sense that they are desperate, and with their egos swelling after their World Cup victory, they are crashing into reality.

      • Steglitz49

        The women are not just batting on a sticky wicket but it is as if they are playing bridge and have no trump on hand.

        Losing in the QF has a big price tag. Bigger than they thought and Hope’s rant did not help either.

        • rkmid71

          Previously it was Hope, Rapinoe, Lloyd, Sauerbrunn, and Morgan as player reps. Now it’s Lloyd, Sauerbrunn, Press and Brian. No Rapinoe? Why? No Morgan? Why? I think that this media strategy is seriously flawed and it’s dumb that they persist. They lost their court cases, though I think the EEOC is still outstanding. It seems the facts are not on their side.

          • Steglitz49

            Pinoe would not be a good idea. I guess that Alex has either figured out for herself or taken advice to keep out.

            Lloyd has to be there as Captain. Brunn has been in from the start. Christen is articulate and fluent on camera. Brian represents the next generation.

          • Chak Khan

            Next generation?!! I thought y’all wanted to get rid of her, too, because she will be old comes WC19. Y’all wanted a new NT filled with U20, no?

          • Steglitz49

            “Her”? Which “her”? Alex will be 29 in WC-19.

            Brunn was too slow in the Bomb in Brasilia. She ain’t gonna be any faster in 2019.

        • USMNTfan4life

          Agreed!

      • Heil Dump!

        The patron saint of the GOPers is Mr Dump, the least qualified president-elect in history.

        • USMNTfan4life

          Yeah but he won. No one’s fault except Clinton campaign, which had more cash raised, media friend, etc. HRC should have run a better race period.

  • guest

    the uswnt players want a raise after the rio olympic disaster? the worst performance in uswnt history? are you kidding me??? they should be glad they still have a job.

    • Guest

      So not winning a major tournament is means for being fired?

  • guest

    does the uswnt have a new gang of four spokeswomen? has christen press replaced alex morgan? has morgan brian replaced megan rapinoe?

    • Paul Klee

      Well you can’t have Solo anymore. At least half the fans or intended audience probably despise Rapinoe. Alex Morgan may be really bright, but she does not present herself well. I’d let Becky and Christen do all the talking, though that’s probably not going to happen with Carli Lloyd there. Carli could say the same thing as Press or Broon and it would come off as slightly obnoxious rather than fairly reasonable. Can’t wait to hear what Morgan Brian has to say, sticking up for the young’uns and all that………..

      • Steglitz49

        Carli was the team captain in the Bomb in Brasilia. She is the current world POTY. She has to speak.

        Broon an the defense failed in Brasilia. Maybe the less said, the better? Likewise Christen. The ball sailing over the bar says it all and more.

        • Chak Khan

          And Morgan? What failures did she participate in OG16?

          • Steglitz49

            What the public remembers it that she scored the equalizer that made the pso happen. The American people gives her a free pass on her pk being saved because it was on target and against a goalie on song.

          • Chak Khan

            Morgan Brian

          • Steglitz49

            An unqualified Morgan in WoSo is always Alex.

    • JL

      This was likely filmed during October camp, which Morgan and Rapinoe were not part of.

  • Ando91881

    Well, this 60 Minutes interview won’t be reported at all by Chicago news media, so they still won’t know who the captain of the Red Stars is. Someone watching from the Chicago area will watch and still not know about Christen Press. Local news media is not making the connection for them.

    • Steglitz49

      The primary goal is to do a snowjob on the miserable OG-16. Find a silver lining somewhere. If the U20s do well, maybe it can be built around them.

      Are there any viewing figures for the US for the Bomb in Brasilia? Do we know how few watched that embarrassment? Maybe less snow will be needed to bury it.

      • Ando91881

        The game before the Sweden match had about 3.3 million viewers. So, assume the Sweden match had about the same. Maybe the penalty kicks drama pushed it up to 4 million viewers. Maybe.

        • Steglitz49

          Thank you. 4m out of 315m is about 1.3% and certainly <2%.

          Seems hardly any snow is needed.

  • guest

    i’ve seen Press driving in her hometown in her BMW and shoes that cost more than my months rent.. it’s really hard to feel bad for these people. second class citizens? ok, tell that to your NWSL teammates making 10K/year doing the same job who are largely locked out of NT call ups

    • guest

      the uswnt players don’t care about equal pay for nwsl players. the uswnt players only care about equal pay when it is in their self-interests. and they certainly don’t care about equal opportunity on the uswnt for nwsl players. that would be too much equality for them.

      • guest

        the uswnt players get paid more salary in the nwsl than all the nwsl players regardless of performance even thought they play around close to half the number of games the other nwsl players play in at least two years out of the cycle. that is not equality.

        • Guester

          they have earned their money by selling out games – people want to see the national team stars, they don’t care about the no name NWSL players. It’s not their fault that they are good. They just want the money that they have earned. Why is this so hard to understand? We don’t live in a socialist society (yet) – they shouldn’t have to sacrifice their earnings to prop up the NWSL. As far as more equal opportunity for NWSL players to try out for the national team, that’s a bit of a different story and I think there should be more flexibility

          • Princesses

            They are already earning a lot. Phrases like that they feel treated as second class citizens just demonstrates that they lost touch with reality.

          • Kevin

            It’s all relative and it goes beyond salaries.

          • Steglitz49

            Not really. Money is absolute. It is worth what it is worth and neither more nor less.

          • Kevin

            It’s all relative. You don’t know what that phrase means, do you?

          • Steglitz49

            About 8000 tickets were sold for this seasons NWSL Championship final while 33,000 attended the FA women’s Cup final.

            Thus, you could say that WoSo is about 4 times more popular in England than in the US. That would be true if only 800 had shown up in Houston and 3,300 at Wembley.

            The absolute difference was 25,000, about as many as go along to a USWNT home game on a good day. The other absolute difference would have been 2,500, that is trivial.

          • Steglitz49

            If there is no NWSL then there would be no real matches for the WNT to play in.

          • guest

            actually it is not hard to understand. the uswnt players want capitalism in the nwsl because they are the highest paid players there. but the uswnt players want socialism in the us national teams because the usmnt players get higher bonuses than the uswnt since they don’t have guaranteed salaries or benefits and they have higher revenue. the uswnt players already get the money they earned under the contract they agreed to. the uswnt players actually want more than equal pay with the usmnt. they want to keep their guaranteed salaries and benefits which the usmnt don’t get but also get the same bonuses as the usmnt. and the uswnt players want the same world cup bonuses as the usmnt even though that is a fifa bonus not a ussf bonus which they are dishonestly blaming on the ussf to the american public. if they uswnt players are truely interested in equal pay then would agree to drop their guaranteed annual salaries and benefits and agree to pay to play just like the usmnt players agreed too based on pay to revenue. that would be real equality.

          • Steglitz49

            After Bombing in Brasilia, in a true capitalist system they would all be on noitce. Indeed, given the depth, breadth and length of the US talent pool, they might all be chewing grass in the gutter by now.

            We can expect the USSF not to squander this golden opportunity to harmonize and socialize a bit. ThUSSF would be daft if they did anything else.

          • Steglitz49

            Anyone playing in NT colors would earn that money. Anyone who “could walk and chew gun at the same time”.

            When it mattered in August the USWNT did not play so well. Not well at all. Why should those losers be allowed to continue in NT colors?

          • rkmid71

            As you have pointed out, the worst wasn’t that they didn’t play so well, it was the embarrassment of how they handled themselves. It was the Olympics. First they threatened to boycott. Then the poor sportsmanship (gloves trick, cowards), violating the Olympic spirit. And no comments by captains or the coach for any of this behavior. The fact that unfit players were on the roster, etc, etc. It just wreaked selfish entitlement. Why those captains would be allowed to continue is beyond me. Then the kneeling, now the media campaign.

          • Steglitz49

            I suspect this media campaign was planned on the assumption that Mrs Bill would be president-elect. As it is, it makes good TV for the channels.

            For whatever reason, Alex benefits from staying out of this. Funny that. Always well advised.

          • Chak Khan

            She voted for DJT.

          • Steglitz49

            Is that a fact or just hearsay?

          • FlyingSquirrel42

            Pretty safe to say Alex Morgan did not vote for Trump – she has the #imwithher hashtag on an Instagram post from a couple weeks ago.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you.

          • anon

            she definitely voted for Hillary and posted about it on social media. that guy is nuts.

          • Steglitz49

            Agreed; and seconded.

          • Kathy

            I fear I have to agree to all your points.

            And I onced loved that team.

            For the first time in my life I really hope that they lose some games beginning of next year (those games are are not really important) in order to get back to normal (in a positive) way and likeable

            That might help to build up for the future

          • rkmid71

            They were much more likeable in the Romania games. The new faces, the energy, style of play, teamwork. Continue giving more players more opportunities. I believe that every new player invited to a camp is giving 110% effort — they would be crazy not to. I believe in giving more players opportunities in games — Menges, Colaprico, etc, etc. See what happens. That’s exactly what other teams do in friendlies against the US. If the CBA is currently restricting the coach, soon it should no longer be the case.

          • Steglitz49

            There is no pressure on the USWNT until summer of 2019. They can frolic or fornicate their time away but when the bugle calls in January of 2019, they will be fighting for their team places.

          • Steglitz49

            Without a CBA, I guess the head coach can motor on with any players. The new CBA must give her that right too.

          • Chak Khan

            Without the CBA, Sun would be able to replace/fire the head coach, staff and NT players. Why wouldn’t he? He, then, could pay the new NT the same as NWSL or at least equal to Thailand NT.

          • Steglitz49

            He should go for it!

          • DNG

            Hope Solo does not represent every player on the team. There were players who did disagree with Solo’s actions and they did speak publicly to it. Not sure if Sauerbrunn or Lloyd did specifically speak publicly but you’re also ignoring the possibility that they said something privately. If I was a captain on the team I would have handled this privately. Rapinoe being on the roster was Ellis’ decision not Rapinoes’s. I think your frustration is misplaced here. I don’t really understand people’s issue with the kneeling.

            As far as this wage issue goes I have no knowledge how much they deserve and won’t know unless I get a more detailed look at their finances. SUM in particular have not made any effort to open their books to give data on the team’s value and I understand the player’s frustration with this. It may well turn out that they are already compensated fairly.

          • guest

            just because the uswnt coach and doctors are corrupt doesn’t mean the player should just get a pass. rapinoe had a responsibility to her teammates to show up to the olympics in shape, not just 15 minutes fit. it’s one thing if she was only 45 minutes fit but this iwasn’t even a grey area. her lack of fitness hurt the team wasting two subs on her. the issue with the kneeling is simple. her employers, the ussf and the uswnt, said she is expected to stand and she violated that policy.

          • DNG

            What if Rapinoe thought that being 15 minutes fit was better than the alternative. I don’t think that is true, but if she does, why would she “bow out”?

          • Steglitz49

            She saw the Veterans get a free ride in WC-15. This tournament was a slam dunk. At worst the US might lose in the final but even that was considered a long shot.

            “Honesty is the best policy”, the saying goes. Respecting your team-mates, is selfevident.

            The Japanes call the players of 2010-2015 the “Golden Generation” but the US used the term “Veterans”. Says it all.

          • rkmid71

            Are you saying that Rapinoe was honest with JE about being 15 minutes fit and JE decided she was still better than the alternative? Or that Rapinoe actually believed she was 100% fit based on practice and without playing any NWSL games or friendlies prior to OG, after being off for 9 months for her 3rd ACL surgery and rehab. And given that her previous experience with ACL surgery was a minimum of 12 months. She tried coming back after 9 months in surgery 1 and re-tore. Where JE went astray and should take responsibility, was panicking and actually playing her.

            Re: Solo, that’s not how it works. Solo was a veteran player. She was representing not just herself, but her team and this country. For others to say something privately wasn’t
            good enough after Solo’s public comments. The disagreement needed to be
            immediate and that’s the captains and the coach’s job. Unless of course they didn’t disagree in which case they are all culpable.

          • Steglitz49

            I never understand what DNG’s position is.

          • DNG

            I don’t know how honest Rapinoe was with Ellis. I expect Rapinoe to think she’s the best option at 15-20 minutes fit even if you or I think she’s a bit delusional. It’s Ellis’ job to tell her that it isn’t good enough to be selected. I don’t and didn’t think it was a good idea to select a player who had not played any minutes prior to the Olympics after 9 months of ACL rehab. It’s Ellis’ job to tell Rapinoe that where she’s at just isn’t good enough.

            It doesn’t matter if Solo was a veteran or a first year player, what she said was a show of poor sportsmanship regardless. However, she speaks for herself, not the team. I can’t help that her words are taken as a reflection of the team and neither can her teammates. So even though her comments reflect poorly on the team Solo is the only one to blame. As I said above, I don’t agree that disagreeing with her publicly is the right course of action. I would have prefered teammates to deal with her behind closed doors and if asked by members of the media, told them that they don’t agree with what she said which is pretty much what happened.

          • Steglitz49

            Hope, with Alex and Carli, is one of the superstars of WoSo not just in the US but worldwide — that is, the part of the world that cares a fig about WoSo. Thus, Hope speaks with authority and not like some sports-journalist or color commentator.

            In this case, Hope’s sportsmanship having failed — as it did in WC-11 too — the one-liner by the Swedish coach, the lady who had given Hope her chance to be great after the debacle of 2007, not only was great copy for the broadcasters, it was a devastating indictment of the other side. When nobody leapt up to apologize, the obvious conclusion was that the team agreed with Hope — which they probably did.

            Now is time to move on. To advance into sunlight uplands and joyfully remember those Veterans who have passed before this sorry excuse for an NT, ever one soccer ball, goals without end.

          • Chak Khan

            Was DZ injured during the WC15? They lost the WC15 to the US and England. Any objection to Silvia for including her in the team? No, okay, y’all solely wanted to give the USWNT hell just because.

          • Steglitz49

            Neid was criticized for not including Mandy Islacker and she was criticized for not playing Sara Däbritz more.

          • Helge H

            She was criticized to let DZ and Lena Lotzen play some games although both were injured. Lotzen has not played any game afterwards and is still injured. So she paid a very high price. DZ was out for several months afterwards

            But it seems she learned from that. Bremer was not completely fit before Olympia in Rio and was not called

          • Steglitz49

            Verily and forsooth.

          • Steglitz49

            It was Pinoe’s decision. She could have held up her hand and said — “Sorry, Coach, but I am not fully fit. Please pick someone else.” By their fruit ye shall know them.

            If they Hope’s teammates did speak out, nobody bothered to report it. Oddly enough, Lotta’s refusal to criticize Hope was noted.

            Does anyone know how much the German and Swedish players received for their performances in Rio? Their NTS did not play any victory tours as far as I know.

          • DNG

            Rapinoe could have told Ellis not to pick her but I’m not going to condemn her too much for thinking that 20 minutes of her was better than an alternative. She’s a highly competitive athlete that may need that mindset to be who she is. Morgan and Rapinoe explicitly said they disagreed with Solo calling Sweden cowards after the match. I’m sure they weren’t the only players who felt that way.

          • Steglitz49

            I am happy to condemn her.

            I don’t disbelieve you but I have not heard any tape of anyone criticizing Hope. Carli as Captain and Brunn as another senior player needed to speak up and asap.

            As it was it was Pia, who gave Hope her chance to become the legend that Hope is, whose comment flew around the world — I don’t give a [bleep — “explitative deleted”]. We are going to Rio; she is going home.

          • rkmid71

            My recollection is that they spoke up days after. And Rapinoe sort of recanted later. And why wasn’t it the captains and the coach? So in the end, only Alex Morgan spoke up.

          • Steglitz49

            Alex Morgan again. That lady is the real McCoy.

          • DNG

            I disagree. I don’t see a lot of benefit to calling out a teammate in public. Say what needs to be said behind closed doors

          • Steglitz49

            The damage was done. The US was a laughing stock and their famous goalie not only seen as a bad loser but also full of chicanery. The US sporting image had taken more than a bad knock and they did nothing. Well, Alex seems to have though it seems to have gone much unnoticed at the time.

          • Rufan

            Here is a link to one story that quotes Germany at $20K and Sweden at zero
            https://hypebeast.com/2016/8/olympic-gold-medal-bonuses

          • Steglitz49

            The German lasses also get a “free lifetime supply of beer (Germany)” according to the article.

            That must have some pulling-power at the disco! “See that girl over there? She comes with free beer.”

          • rkmid71

            Belarus was lifetime supply of free sausages. Turkey evidently was 1,000 gold coins for gold medalists. Each coin contains
            around 7grams of 24K gold meaning the prize is around $300,000 per gold medal. I assume in Turkey that could be weight lifters or wrestlers.

          • Steglitz49

            I was thinking more in terms of “Beer Queen” than “Dancing Queen” — provided you know your ABBA.

    • anon

      coming from one of the team’s top earners (if not the top earner in terms of sponsorships aside from morgan – her face was all over my airport for United) the second class citizen comment is RICH. carli is so arrogant.

      • guest

        if the uswnt players are second class citizens than the american people must be doing great in the economy. america must already be great again.

  • mockmook

    Why are the USA women on this kamikaze mission to become arrogant and unlikeable?

    Do they have no idea how this video comes across to “normal” people?

    • Steglitz49

      No. They don’t.

    • rkmid71

      Did I hear Lloyd correctly? She thinks the USWNT is the #1 team in “sports history”? Hopefully that excerpt is taken out of context from the entire interview. Otherwise, she has lost all connection with reality. I also heard words like social movement, gender discrimination, fight of our lifetime. It’s a curious negotiating strategy. It seems clear the players union is not making much headway in getting what it wants, If they wanted more of the same CBA +, thank goodness. My understanding is that they don’t want the same deal as the men. It feels like they’re headed for a strike. Then we’ll see USSF response — I would simply bring other players into January camp.

      • Steglitz49

        If the CBA expires at midnight in New Year’s Eve, how can they strike? They can refuse to play but is it what is meant by a strike?

        After the Bomb in Brasilia this USWNT is hardly the #1 team in “sports history”.

        • rkmid71

          Even before the Brasilia, Lloyd doesn’t remember the 16 year WC drought — during which Germany won 2 WCs and Japan 1? Can you imagine what they would be saying if they had won OG?

          • Steglitz49

            Why would the USSF extend it? There are no critical matches till summer of 2019.

      • USMNTfan4life

        The USWNT is not the #1 team in sports history. Lloyd is delusional, and since the WNT lost in the Olympics, they don’t have the leverage that thought they did, and now they are fighting damage control. Especially since Hillary Clinton lost the race for the White House, they don’t have the power they had before. I think they are going to lose on so many levels.

        • Steglitz49

          “Hoisted by their own petard.”

          • USMNTfan4life

            Yep. Although some on this thread feel the USSF will win and has all the leverage, I don’t see it that way. I think the federation will give in on some items (training and playing fields), per diem, appearance fees, etc., but stick to payment based on revenue.

        • guest

          not only are the uswnt not the #1 team in sports history. the uswnt are not even the #1 team in american womens sports history. the us women’s basketball team has won olympic gold in 8 of the last 9 olympics in the last thirty years and they have won the world cup gold in 7 of the last 10 world cups in the last thirty-five years. it is not even close. but that’s the problem with the uswnt sports media. they don’t call out the uswnt players on their dishonesty.

          • Steglitz49

            US women dominate basket games so much that the matches are not worth watching. Soccer is more even and therefore the tournament wins an placings meaningful.

          • rkmid71

            They are worth watching. It raises the standard for everybody trying to compete. Just like watching the UConn women, UCLA men under Wooden, Mighty Magyars, From 1953-1955, the MM had a 3% loss percentage. They had a 4 year stretch without losing. Why do you think the Miracle of Bern or the Miracle on Ice were miracles? Or Notre Dame ending UCLA’s 88 game winning streak. The fact that those teams eventually lost doesn’t take away from the fact they were truly great. You watch because you never know what can happen.

          • Steglitz49

            The Swedish press immediately labelled the Bomb in Brasilia as “Miracle on Grass”, and everyone understood the reference.

            The Miracle of Bern had two dimensions: a political and a sporting. It came at a low point in Germany’s history. It was, as you note the first if not only game that the Mighty Magyars lost — and they had trounced big NTs not long before that WC, and Germany 8-3 in their group game.

            The PR-machine did a great job on 81- in 1981. They really buried that miserable defeat under more than enough snow.

    • Jane Doe

      Who are these “normal” people and who appointed you as spokesman?

      • Steglitz49

        Read the comment strings and you will see. Seeing is believing.

      • mockmook

        “Normal” is anyone who watches that video and thinks, “What a bunch of arrogant a-holes”.

        I appointed myself their spokesman — if you don’t recognize the problem with that video, that is your problem.

        • Sen. Sessions

          “I appointed myself their spokesman” – Trump, speaking for the white man.

          • Steglitz49

            He won. She didn’t.

          • Excuses..Excuses

            Verily and…

          • Steglitz49

            “Verily, verily” — has a certain ring to it.

            Condi for the Supreme Court?

          • rkmid71

            You don’t have to be a lawyer or a law school graduate, but apparently have to have some training in the law. Surely Condi qualifies. Here is what I learned:

            The last Justice to be appointed who did not attend any law school was James F. Byrnes (1941-1942). He did not graduate from high school and taught himself law, passing the bar at the age of 23. Robert H. Jackson (1941-1954). While Jackson did not attend an undergraduate college, he did study law at Albany Law School in New York. At the time of his graduation, Jackson was only twenty years old and one of the requirements for a law degree was that students must be twenty-one years old. Thus rather than a law degree, Jackson was awarded with a “diploma of graduation.” Twenty-nine years later, Albany Law School belatedly presented Jackson with a law degree noting his original graduating class of 1912.

          • Steglitz49

            I can’t see Trump mismanaging this appointment the way Obama did. Granted, Trump may not find his Sandra O’Connor but he will do something similar — 35 years on.

          • mockmook

            There is nothing in the Constitution that requires SC appointees to have any law training. But, it would be almost impossible (absent an EXTREMELY exceptional nominee) to currently get approval for someone with no law training.

          • Excuses..Excuses

            As much as I respect and like Dr. Rice, that’s a “no”, for me. If I’m Trump, I’m not bringing any Bush people in, if I can help it. Also, she would have the potential to be a David Souter type of appointment, which is what Trump campaigned against.

      • dw

        I approve mockmook’s appointment as spokesman. I may or may not be “normal”. But the entitlement of these players is mind boggling. Allegedly taped before the election, right?

        All the players have left is the “drum up more popular support angle”.

        Reminds me of US Ryder Cup golfers complaining that they weren’t being paid…

    • guest

      They may come off as ill-informed and arrogant, but they may have a valid case against US Soccer according to this article someone posted earlier. You can skip the top part about FIFA if you’re already aware of what a bunch of a**holes those people are.

      Read the bottom section where it talks about SUM and how it hides the value of the WNT, which may be a violation of the Stevens Act, which requires organizations like US Soccer to be “financially and operationally transparent and accountable to its members,” which clearly SUM is not.

      • rkmid71

        Transparency is a good thing and one is right to be skeptical when the relationships are so intertwined. We can see the degree of illegal activity with FIFA, CONCACAF, other federations which has become clear once a few whistleblowers surfaced. I think it would make sense for USSF to proactively provide more disclosure, rather than be forced through some court order. But maybe USSF is forced to keep confidential per their agreement with SUM though most confidentiality agm’ts have out clauses in event forced by law, court order. In any event, they are related parties so not sure how valid any of that is anyway.

        • Steglitz49

          Surely, TV viewing figures for USMNT and USWNT must be available and can be compared. Likewise, based on ticket prices the income from matches can be roughly compared.

          The same comparisons can be made for the MLS vs NWSL.

          Maybe HOFCToDi or CED can help us?

      • Steglitz49

        FIFA bundles the TV rights of the ladies WC with the men’s WC. In the US, they may be considered co-equal but in the ROW few if any network would bother to buy the ladies WC and they certainly would only pay a fraction of what hey would spend on the men’s WC.

        That is the reality.

        • rkmid71

          The ROW doesn’t seem so relevant. In 2011, Fox reportedly paid $400m to $500m for the US English speaking rights. NBC Universal Telemundo paid $600 million for the US Spanish TV rights. This covered all FIFA tournaments including the WC through 2022 and the WWC through 2019. FIFA recently extended these agm’ts through 2026. The extension is a big deal because the US is considered a strong possibility to host the WC in 2026. Sponsorships for these events are sold separately by FIFA.

          I read that prior to 2007, the women NTs got paid $0 by FIFA. In 2007 and 2011, the winning teams got $1m and in 2015 $2m. I think the biggest beef the women have is with FIFA, especially assuming the value paid by Fox and Telemundo is co-equal between men and women in the US (which it probably isn’t). If it was, even in the absence of greater payouts for women from FIFA, I suppose the USSF could pool whatever FIFA total revenue it does receive and rebalance somewhat between the men and women in accordance with the estimated relative value of the US rights.

          The losing teams in the group phase of 2014 WC received $8m or 4x the USWNT as winner in 2015. The 2014 WC winner got 13x the USWNT. Do you really think few networks would pay for the rights to televise the ladies WC in the US? What portion of the $1bn applies to the ladies? $1bn / 13 = $80m. Do you think Fox & Telemundo would accept $80m total for both the Spanish speaking and English speaking women’s rights through 2026?

          • Steglitz49

            The men’s WC final is the most watched single sporting event in the world. The next most watched is the men’s Champions League final. I am told, but don’t know for sure that the world wide audience for the men’s FA cup final is now bigger than the Superbowl.

            Men’s soccer is mega. Women’s soccer is trivial in comparison.

            The OG-16 ladies final was contested between Germany (85m people) and Sweden (9.5m), that is together about 1/3 of the population in the US. Germany also played in the men’s final. I wonder what the viewing figures in the US, Germany and Sweden were for those two finals? Do you know?

            When you total the estimates for all the TV viewers in the US then the men’s WC-14 final (Arg v Ger) was watched by as many as watched the women’s final in WC-15 (US v Japan). Granted, in the English language standard broadcast, more watched the women than the men.

            Judging by Europe, there is a limit to how much you can tax the men’s game and give to the ladies. 1% is OK and 3% just about makes it but 5% is too much. 13x is 7-8%. Borderline too much.

          • CED

            The Wcup rights are not even close to equal, that’s pure fantasy. The ratings for MWcup tourney dwarf the WWcup. The only time WWcup gets ratings in US is when US plays. For MWcup there are a dozen or more teams that pull ratings.

            The notion of pooling US MWcup FIFA payments to give to WNT is subsidy and just proves that their entire argument is utter BS.

          • rkmid71

            I agree their entire argument is BS. They should just call it what it is. A request for a increased subsidy. It would be interesting (to me at least) to know the price that Fox/NBC would accept for the rights for women FIFA events through 2026. Maybe ESPN would be interested in women only rights … at some price. If the ratings are historically low, the price should be low.

          • CED

            FIFA would never allow rights to be separated b/c most regions of the world would not buy them at all. FIFA bundled them to assure the WWcup would be broadcast to some extent worldwide. Besides the US, Europe and Japan, it would never be on. The US broadcasted all games for the first time in 2015 essentially b/c Fox had its 2 new networks FS1 and FS2 and they had no content at that time for the month of June. Fox thus promoted WWcup by necessity, they had no rights to anything going on a NBA playoffs, NHL playoffs, College baseball/softball playoffs, etc…

          • rkmid71

            As you say, in the US it could work and maybe Japan and Europe. The US rights were sold separately from any other region anyway. It would establish a clear value for the women in the best market.

          • CED

            If FIFA allowed one region to separate all regions would demand the same thing. In fact it would only be fair to allow all regions to separate. Hence FIFA would never do it b/c it would not be bought in certain regions. FIFA purposely bundles to make sure the WWcup is actually shown worldwide. They will not be separated as the people whining about FIFA would be whining even louder. WoSo exists as subsidy worldwide, the US included. The WNT proves it, but they are delusional in not admitting it.

          • rkmid71

            I assume just because somebody buys the bundled rights doesn’t mean the buyer has to show the women’s games. I mean if some other region value the women rights at $0, it wouldn’t matter if they were bundled or unbundled. In weak WoSo markets, FIFA could just give the women’s rights away to increase the probability of the games being shown.

          • CED

            Actually there are minimum requirements on games, it’s all part of the bundling process. I read the articles years back but it’s something like they have to show semi, finals and a few other games.

      • mockmook

        I’m pretty sure the USWNT could get the Justice Department or EEOC to look into (and correct) the USSF if it was actually violating the Stevens Act.

        The rest of the article is just throwing up a cloud of innuendo without really pinpointing any actual wrongdoing. Again, if these things are illegal, then the EEOC claim will correct them. But, you may have noticed that it is many months since the EEOC filing, and nothing has happened.

        The players said that they filed the EEOC complaint to put pressure on the USSF to get a better deal (CBA). That isn’t a search for “justice”, that’s just a search for more leverage to get more money.

        • Steglitz49

          Bombing in Brasilia is likely to carry a big pricetag. A big lever in the CBA negotiations went to the other side.

          • CED

            Get a life and a clue

          • Steglitz49

            As Patton said: Americans love a winner and dispises a loser.

  • #1Fan

    And there you have it. So many half truths and misleading comments. Its a shame that we are at this point, but not surprising. In a way, I hope they go on strike

    • Paul Klee

      They may be doing it for the young soccer girls, glad we got the kids input. Perhaps CBS could have got the views of 4 journeyman NWSL players, and asked them what they thought?

      • Rufan

        Especially after telling them what Solo (and likely, what most of the other WNT players) earned from USSF in 2015.

        • Paul Klee

          Might have also mentioned that Solo missed out on some salary and some game checks due to a 30 day suspension.

          • guest

            that is true. not exatly fair and balanced. and no mention of her ongoing domestic abuse case or her latest six months suspension.

          • guest

            for her olympic sweden rant.

        • rkmid71

          And what portion of Solo’s earnings was for her work in the NWSL while playing in only 8 games.

    • guest

      i hope the uswnt players go on strike too. every single one of them is replacable excluding the college players. and a totally new uswnt team would still be top ten in the world.

      • guest

        not to mention quite a few of the veterans on the veteran protected uswnt team shouldn’t even be on team anymore anyway. christie rampone is still on the team even though she’s barely played in two years and she hasn’t even shown up for any uswnt camps this year.

  • #1Fan

    Rich people fighting richer ones. Not sure why they would appeal to the average man. This fight is not a social one. Its pure economics. Solo plays all those games because the WNT is traveling circus. The men are paid by a pro team and are usually being called in to prep for tournaments that generate significantly more global revenue. The failure to mention the NWSL and the huge pay disparity for TRUE equal work is alarming. It almost feels like the USSF connection to the league is the ripe that will hang it. I wonder if the women would have a case if the USSF did not have a allocated player system ? If they were simply paid by clubs how much would they earn ? If they were then compensated per appear cane can played the same number or prep games the men do pre events etc. How much would they earn ?

    • rkmid71

      I was quite surprised Hope Solo was interviewed for this. And comparing her to Tim Howard — I couldn’t help thinking of Howard’s 16 saves against Belgium. The USMNT is facing countries with an enormous investment and head start in the men’s game where soccer is and always will be the #1 sport of choice for athletes. The USWNT is facing countries with very little to no investment in the women’s game where there is no Title IX or any other opportunities for women. There are many games Solo plays where she barely touches the ball and there no shots on goal.

      • Steglitz49

        Yes and no. Hope is one of the very best goalies of the ladies game ever. Her male equivalent is someone like Gordon Banks, Ronnie Hellstrom or Rio-Kalle or in the modern game Buffon or Neuer.

        That is not to take anything away from Tim Howard. He was superb in WC-14.

        • rkmid71

          Agree that Solo has been or was a great GK and your list of male equivalents. 60 minutes was comparing her NT pay and work to Tim Howard which showed they got paid about the same, though Howard played fewer games in the time period they chose. And Solo stating she got paid a lot less on a per game basis. When they were talking specifically about the #’s and Solo versus Howard, 60 minutes did not mention that Solo had other benefits paid by US Soccer (health care, etc) or took into account that Howard would only get paid if called in, unlike Solo. Contract versus salaried employee. They had mentioned it earlier. Why would the WNT use Solo, now having her contract terminated and no longer on the team, in this program? Does the players association want her to be the player front and center to take on the USSF in court?

          • guest

            it seems likely that this 60 minutes segment was made sometime in the summer when hope was still on the team and just aired now. would have been nice for 60 minutes to mention that.

          • Steglitz49

            Why should the player in an NT be a salaried employee with benefits etc? Why?

          • Saint Lloyd

            cause they are the best women ever lived on planet earth. UN and UNESCO should also add some millions to their salaries

          • USMNTfan4life

            Ummm, NO.

          • #1Fan

            Because without the USSF money, none of these players would play here and the league would struggle.

          • JD

            And me stupid thought they are playing here cause the league is so great, so exciting and so competitive

          • #1Fan

            🙂

          • Steglitz49

            Your observation that the NWSL is competitive is well taken. Also, most people like to live in their own country.

            As for remuneration, most teams in most foreign leagues are not terribly well of and those that are are chosy. The Bomb in Brasilia no doubt lowered their stock.

          • CED

            Back to your delusion, obsession and putting your complete lack of understanding of the game on full display again.

          • Steglitz49

            Let’s wait and see which members of the USWNT will play abroad and who stays at home.

          • USMNTfan4life

            You will know based on how their case against the USSF is turning out. If they are going to lose, or the EEOC chooses to do nothing, then a good number of their high-profile players are going to jump ship to Europe.

          • Steglitz49

            They may want to and try but players in Europe are cheap. Players like Rolf; ad Blackstenius, and even Harder and Mjelde, earn trivial amounts compared to USWNT players which will set the market.

          • Steglitz49

            Where else would they play?

            After the Bomb in Brasilia their stock can’t be riding so high.

          • #1Fan

            the mkt rate for non NT players is set. I think the stars would go abroad for more $$ and the rest would either suck it up or quit.

          • Steglitz49

            What stars? Which team would pay? And how little?

            Both Pernille Harder and Stina Blackstenius have not signed new contracts with Linköping. It will be hard for Linköping to find adequate replacements and they have qualified for the Champions League next year. Soon we shall know where they will play.

            USWNT members are exceedingly well remunerated by any standards. Even in a Bomb-year as this, they take home a lot of dosh.

          • #1Fan

            So read below

            NWSL also increased its minimum salary from $6,842 in 2015 to $7,200 in 2016. The league’s maximum salary — which applied to both domestic and international players outside of those whose salaries are subsidized by a federation — increased from $37,800 to $39,700.

            United States women’s national team players are compensated by U.S. Soccer for their participation in NWSL in addition to their national team earnings. U.S. players’ salaries for league play vary, but most are paid more than the league maximum. FiveThirtyEight reports that ‘Tier 1’ U.S. players — like Hope Solo and Carli Lloyd — earn a $54,000 base salary for NWSL play in addition to a $72,000 base for the national team.

            I am suggesting they play for the league MAX ..39700 or go elsewhere for more. If not ..so be it. The the USSF can also pay them exactly thew same as the men with respect to NT duty

          • Steglitz49

            Even $50,000 is a high salary in Europe and as for $72,000 you are talking the select few.

            USSF have the women by their short and curlies, as the expression goes. A sharp tug will bring the to their senses and into line.

            Time will tell where all this lands but make no mistake — the USSF is in the catbird seat and they ain’t gonna squander this chance to bring the NT players to heel.

          • #1Fan

            league max is 39700 .

          • Steglitz49

            It varies around the world but most players in other nations do not earn that much from playing in their NTs.

          • CED

            USSF has and continues to give them a sweetheart deal. The fact is if you look at past CBA’s USSF has agreed to about 15,20 or even more in many areas % increases CBA to CBA in salary, bonuses, etc.. There is no reason to think USSF is not offering that now, USSF however knows the equal pay to MNT is utter nonsense.

            If WNT got the same 15% increases as last CBA:

            Tier I -72K up to 82,800

            Tier II – 51K up to 58,650

            Tier III – 36K up to 41,400

            NWSL salary increases 2K/yr each yr of the past contract 2013 50K and 56K by 2016. New players went from 40K to 46K by 2016

            Wcup qual and final roster bonus increased 20% would go from 15k to 18K

            Wcup/OG
            Gold 20% 75K to 90K
            Silver 30% 32500 to 42250
            Bronze 20% 20K to 24k

            VT 20% team bonus 1.8M to 2.16M
            signing bonus 42% 425K to 603K

            I actually think increases will be 20% or more which would be something like this

            Tier I 90K
            Tier II 62k
            Tier III 43K

            League salary 64K with annual step increases of 3K yr

            Wcup/OG quals and final bonus 20K

            Wcup/OG
            Gold – 95k
            Silver – 45K
            Bronze – 25K

            VT team bonus 2.25M(25% increase)
            per ticket bonus and per diem adjusts as MNT increases
            win bonus 2500/game
            team signing bonus of 500K

            Tier I base with NWSL comes to 154K/yr in 2017 and would be 163k/yr base by contract end

          • rkmid71

            Why would they offer that? That’s business as usual, the status quo. I think we want something better. More competitive. Assuming we want the best team possible and not just enrich a particular group of players.

          • Steglitz49

            The current USWNT players may not agree with you.

          • rkmid71

            CED seems to think “there is no reason to think USSF is not offering that now”. I sure hope that’s wrong.

          • CED

            You just have to look at CBA to CBA the same % increases are usually the same 15 to 20% in most areas. There is no reason to think they aren’t offering 20% or more b/c the finances were dire for decades and now they have decent finances. The SBC also improves the books bringing in revenue compared to the loss of Algarve…Player for 4 games at Algarve is 450K. Then you have 2 weeks foreign expenses and travel. The trip cost 700K+ SBC is 2.4M in revenue and 1+M in profit.

          • CED

            USSF is very unlikely, actually I will say, will not do what actually needs to be done and blow up the NT club system. If USSF was actually considering not just “enriching the NT snowflakes” the WNT would not be doing what they are doing. If USSF was playing hardball offering no contracts, a MNT structure based on revenue the WNT would have folded long ago and would be begging to keep their current sweetheart deal to avoid being exposed to the true economics of WoSo. The WNT doesn’t want equality they would cry if they had the means structure and USSF is not really going to call them on it. Thus, since that’s not going to happen, the likely outcome is the same structure with just more money. slightly less security. I see some loosening on the parameters of bringing people into camp, ie..the floater clause.

          • rkmid71

            You’re preaching to the choir. I see no reason. The reason they always give is more players will quit the game because it’s not a yet a living wage in club soccer. Never mind it’s happening anyway for any player not currently in the WNT. To hell with those players, even if they have potential to be great in the future. If they insist on keeping the salary, I think I would increase the # of players in the pool and reduce the salary per player (to keep overall expenditure the same) and increase the performance bonuses and allow much more flexibility for the coach to bring players in and out of pool. That would at least increase the # of players earning a living wage — rather than enriching a few and create real competition for those spots. And rather than directly pay the players for NWSL, I would provide those $ to the NWSL clubs and give them some leverage.

          • JD

            and let’s not forget that the men don’t have those circus victory or post olympia tour events since they are obliged to play club soccer while our super girls can play against tomatoe cans.
            .
            So, comparing the number of games isn’t helpfull
            .
            Furthermore the USWNT spends a huge number of weeks and months in training camps (which also have to be paid) which the men also can’t

          • SpiritFan80

            Also as those were their respective World Cup years, some of that money they earned came from FIFA bonuses, not directly from USSF. The men’s World cup brings in a crap load more money than the WWC does. Not excusing FIFA, just putting it out there. They could definitely do more to promote the Women’s game and get a hold on corruption, but I won’t hold my breath.

    • Steglitz49

      Not too much. When Germany’s lasses won OG-16 they allegedly got a bonus of $25,000 + free beer for at least a year if not the rest of their lives. Had Sweden won, their players would have gotten nothing in bonus. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Counting bonuses and the money from the Victory tour, the USWNT players lost out on ca $150,000.

      Meanwhile, the crew in the NWSL dont earn too much.

  • SpiritFan80

    I would like to see a more in depth discussion on the complicated issues of the different pay structures. The men only get paid if they are on rosters and play. The woman get paid a salary as long as they are under contract. There are currently 3 NT players who have received a salary from USSF who haven’t played a game for WNT in 2016, Leroux & Rodriguez due to pregnancy, Rampone due to injury. They also get paid healthcare which the men get from their various clubs. I realize that the American women’s game isn’t at a point where clubs can pay players enough to make the NT just an honor and not a full time employer. Don’t get me wrong, I admire the women for fighting for more pay. It’s a proven fact that many women get paid significantly less than men to do the same job. I just wish they wouldn’t over simplify it to ‘Equal pay for equal play’. It muddies the real issues. USSF doesn’t provide them with the same quality of training facilities or fields to play on as they do the MNT. Although I don’t think the men or women really need to fly first class or charter, if they pay for the men to do it, they should pay for the women to also. I have seen interviews with some on the WNT where they are specifically asked what they want and they say equal pay. What does that mean though? Do they want the same pay structure as the men without the benefits of a contract, medical and maternity leave? That wouldn’t seem to benefit many of them who are getting up there in age, may be more prone to injuries or plan to take time to start a family. With JE focused on bringing in younger talent, many may lose contracts quicker to newbies. I personally think there should be more competition for those contracts. I’m not a fan of keeping a player on and waiting until they “decide” to retire(ahem Wambach). I think things are going to get nasty and we will see some kind of strike before it gets resolved. I hope it gets worked out before NWSL preseason because that could be a real detriment to the league, effecting the non NT players who are barely paid a living wage to begin with.

    • Steglitz49

      To summarize your long paragraph, there are a number of non-equal issues. The disparity between the members of the USWNT and USMNT in terms of salaries and training facilities. Then there are the difference between members of the USWNT and the crew of the NWSL. Maybe there are even differences in the facilities between the NWSL clubs that belong to MLS clubs and the freestanding ones.

      Pregnancy is a fact of life for (some) women. ARod (and Rampone though she is much older) has managed to combine having two kids and play for the NT. Syd is trying her best. In many countries, all this is taken care of by national health systems through taxes, as are operations for ACL-tears etc.

      Playing for the NT is an honor, not least in the US where so many young ladies play soccer. More women play soccer in the US than in Germany, Japan, Norway and Sweden. Players in those countries earn nowhere near, either basic or in bonuses, as what the USWNT players do.

  • sudeep das

    Equal pay is misleading – should be more like fair pay. NWSL players need to be considered also – at least a basic minimum wage for a dignified living and health coverage. If this means that lopsided FIFA payouts are partly funneled into NWSL then so be it.
    Finally this SUM needs to be addressed – really a grey area.

    • guest

      NWSL players need to form a union to gain some leverage.
      In most recent negotiations in Australia the players union included men (A-league), MNT and WNT and negotiated deals for all. The Australian players union and club teams and federation are also now beginning a process to address salary for W-league players.

      Agree SUM needs to be more open book financially – to address fairness and also to avoid corruption potential

  • #1Fan

    To understand this better we need to make a clear distinction between the men and women .

    The WNT is NOT a a National TEAM, it is a national CLUB. To that end I have no problem with them fighting for more pay form their employer. The USSF.

    The Mens NT is a true National TEAM and as such is paid in accordance with normal NT parameters. Appearance based. This works becasue mens soccer is a true business. Where player values are tied to things like real revenue etc.

    I wish the USSF would remove itself from the Club business and let the NWSL or whatever league set player “values” . The we can adopt exactly the same system that the men have

    • Serena

      Excellent summary

    • Paul Klee

      Separate but equal that’s a good starting point historically?

    • guest

      re “I wish the USSF would remove itself from the Club business and let the NWSL or whatever league set player “values” . The we can adopt exactly the same system that the men have”

      nice concept – in principle, but without sufficient woso club attendance revenue no true woso business

      without USSF support there is no NWSL and currently woso club attendance revenue (with notable exception of Portland) does not support the woso clubs so they are not profitable business. Woso clubs are generally run as money losing operations by men’s soccer clubs and/or by wealthy owners.

      entirely remove USSF base contract salary for USWNT players and we are back to system where players can not make a living

      other countries (for example England, Canada, Australian ) also pay their WNT players a base salary (although amounts are less than top USWNT tiers)

      so perhaps better USSF woso funding, restructure the tiers, support larger pool of players (more players in middle/lower tiers) until pro woso clubs have enough attendance revenue, sponsorship to be viable businesses

      • #1Fan

        so why doe we owe them a living outside of what fan interest supports?

        • Steglitz49

          If they want to play friendlies, let them. The more the merrier.

        • Guest

          I think the subsidy has more to do with the owners of the nwsl. They want the US players but don’t want to pay them or have to raise the salary cap.

          • #1Fan

            so why is it paid ? If the US market cannot support stand alone soccer, then how can we make a case that by dint of being on the NT, Women deserve more ? The USSF pay if becasue it benefits them to a price, but I wonder to what price. At what number is it a bad trade ?

          • Guest

            The number becomes bad for the federation when the expense is more than they can realistically cover with their budget. Right now the league benefits the federation though so the subsidy is justified. I think the federation should change the way they subsidize teams though. Maybe they should have the clubs play the NT players directly and give every team enough money to cover the cost of two NT player salaries. That way the teams can choose how they distribute that money. There might be some issues with forcing certain owners spend more but that’s really a league issue.

          • #1Fan

            does the league benefit the federation?

          • Guest

            I’m not sure if FIFA has any rules but I would think that if the US could get away with not having a league there would not currently be one. All of the other leading WoSo nations have leagues and many of those teams are not profitable. I think FIFA was looking for the US to lead the rest of the world in this respect.

          • rkmid71

            FIFA should lead. They should increase the WWC payouts, etc to provide more resources to USSF and others to direct into WoSo. Aren’t they the ones collecting the TV rights fees, sponsorship $, etc.for the WWC? They have reserves (cumulative profit – cumulative expenses) of $1.34 billion and in their budget they’re normally adding to every year. They pay no tax to my knowledge.

          • Guest

            I agree on FIFA. I don’t really agree with the argument that the women should make what they bring in for fifa. If the goal really is the advancement of all types of soccer they should incentivise federations to invest in women’s soccer via substantial prize pools. They make a lot of money and now own a small fortune in net assets. They have more than enough to make the women’s prize pools significant while having plenty of money left over.

          • Steglitz49

            You can’t tax the men’s game too much to subsidize the ladies. !% is easy and 3% is just about accepted but the fans of the men’s game won’t swallow 5%.

          • rkmid71

            Why not? The men’s game is mature. Think of it as an investment, requires more upfront seed capital until you reach some critical mass of fans. So not pissing away money. It’s not like they are short of funds. Seems like they can take afford to take a risk to try to grow the WoSo game. And they’re not paying any income tax on all that profit anyway.

          • Steglitz49

            Arsenal has long supported their ladies section and Lyon started to about 8-10 years ago but the reason given for why the rich men’s clubs in the rich EU leagues started to spend on WoSo, is that the Ministers of Sport behind the scenes threatened to legislate if they did not do something voluntarily.

            It seems also that some men’s clubs have realized that if they can raise the number of spectators and the ticket prizes, they may actually start earning money out of their WoSo sections.

            The net result of this is, that the rich men’s clubs in EU are increasingly dominating WoSo as witness that they are 6 of the 8 remaining clubs in the ladies Champions League and that rich men’s clubs are buying up Linköping’s players, starting yesterday with Fridolina Rolfö going to Bayern Munich.

            Linköping won Damallsvenskan this season and will play in the Champions League next but it will be a toothless lion seeing that they will be without Rolfö, Harder and Blackstenius if not more,

          • CED

            More BS nobody cares about. . Find a goddam sweden forum to blather your nonsense

          • Steglitz49

            You seem obsessed with Swedes. Any in your family tree?

          • CED

            No loser, you’re obsessed with US national team b/c of your inferiority complex that you link to your country also.

          • Steglitz49

            When the previous US women’s league was down, the USWNT played like a club side. The powerful federations complained to FIFA behind the scenes that this was unfair.

            The upshot of it was the creation of the NWSL which serves as a league foe WoSo not only in the US but also for Canada and Mexico. No league, no international competition.

            At the same time, your point is well taken, that FIFA hopes that the NWSL can become profitable and thereby a model for the row.

          • CED

            LOL…More nonsense how do you make this sh*t up.

          • Steglitz49

            Reality intrudes, and all that.

          • Lorehead

            While there are a few teams that make money, most of WoSo is an exchange of money for prestige. It would be embarrassing if all the big countries in Europe had women’s leagues and America didn’t. The top players in the world get six-figure salaries not because Lyon or Turbine Potsdam’s women bring in that much at the gate, but because having the best team is prestigious. Besides, the NWSL is looking sustainable so far, and lots more investors are interested.

          • #1Fan

            Fine. So let the US owners who want prestige pay for it. How is it sustainable when the USSF foots a big part of the bill and the elites want more?

          • mockmook

            The NWSL might not be sustainable today, that doesn’t mean it can’t be tomorrow.

            But, regardless, if the USSF thinks that subsidizing the NWSL helps the USWNT, then let them. The USSF is supposed to foster the development/growth of soccer in the USA — it seems like the NWSL is a very good vehicle for doing that.

          • Steglitz49

            USSF also has no choice. Without a pro-league, FIFA could ban countries from taking part in competitions. It would be wise not to test the waters.

          • guest

            “FIFA could ban countries” FIFA is what should be banned.

          • Steglitz49

            FIFA is the governing body of soccer. They have changed their personnel. Let’s give them a chance to sort things out, shall we?

          • guest

            No use swapping out crocodiles when it’s the swamp that needs to be drained.

          • Steglitz49

            Marvelous metafore. Alligators anyone?

          • CED

            You have no idea what you’re talking about as usual.

          • Steglitz49

            Losers, weepers.

          • #1Fan

            the comment is in the context of the elites wanting more. I still dont see how the NWSL can foster growth when the base salary is 6k..It is a glorified practice league for the elites. until you incent more player to want to play professionally, how is it going to improve. A large percentage of the players cannot make a living at the game witht he current subsidy. I watch these ladies talk about equality when it does not exist in their own backyard. Until the base of the pyramid is alot stronger, the elites actions will simply come at the expense of others. namely their own teammates

          • Steglitz49

            The primary (and possibly only) purpose of the NWSL is to fulfill the formal requirement to have a pro-league. In the case of the NWSL, it takes care not only of the US but also Canada and Mexico (though few if any Mexican girls get to play in the NWSL).

            To launch the NWSL, USSF expected NT players and those who wanted to be in the NT, to play in it but Pinoe and Tobin first played half the first season in France. There were others who bent the rules too.

            The USWNT players are entering into a brave new world. So far Bayern Munich has signed Fridolina Rolfö, the Swedish forward who got injured early in the Brasilia match. Her replacement, Stina Blackstenius is expected to be annaounced too as is the Danish lass Pernille Harder.

            All 3 are from Linköping, who won the Swedish league. We wait with bated breath to learn which WNY players will play abroad or any USWNT players in stead of in the NWSL.

          • USMNTfan4life

            Are you sure about that (FIFA requirement for a WoSo league)? Part of the deal for FIFA to award the 1994 WC to the USA was that a mens league was in place within 2 years, which was realized. There are some countries for the WWC that do not have leagues (African continent), so I am not sure about the league as a requirement for the federations.

          • Steglitz49

            We are talking 2011-12 and not 1994 when only one ladies World Cup had been played.

            FIFA has long stated that soccer is a club game onto which a superstructure of NTs stands.

            Formal may not be cast in concrete or chiseled onto tablets of Swiss cheese, knowing FIFA, but the comfortably well off countries are expected to have pro-leagues. FIFA got more than enough hassle over their shenanigans with WC-15 that I doubt that they can afford to be accommadating.

          • mockmook

            Yes, the NWSL is a poor vehicle for fostering development, but that is better than no pro league at all.

            And, I agree, it would be even better if the regular NWSL players got more — if that is financially viable for the USSF, it should be done.

          • guest

            Yes, look at the players recently called up to WNT play.

          • #1Fan

            confused. You have routinely called in players who dont play more than 10 games in it ., have not proved health/fitness in it. and reject players who are excelling in it. Jury is out for me as to whether it is a real benefit for anything but keeping the rust off the players they have already determined they want to pick.

          • guest

            There were a number of new players called up recently based on the quality of their play in the NWSL. Rewarding club play is a step in the right direction, but, you’re right, the routine call up of certain players has to end. We’ll see what the new CBA brings.

          • USMNTfan4life

            The federation, if it stops subsidizing player salaries for WNT players, would cease its operations. The WNT salaries cannot be absorbed by the teams, since they would operate at a significant loss.

          • USMNTfan4life

            I meant subsidizing salaries for NWLS players on the WNT.

          • Steglitz49

            An USWNT player is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for her services, neither more nor less. After the Bomb in Brasilia it is hard to assess how the market values USWNT players. Time will tell.

            Three players in Linköping are on the move. Rolfö has already signed with Bayern Munich and Harder and Blackstenius we shall soon know. Linköping is a stand alone ladies club in a city of 100,000. It has no big money so these top players are cheap for the rich clubs.

            Why pay more for losers when you can have the winners cheaply?

            (US U17 and U20 players are not really relevant because they still have years in college.)

          • #1Fan

            So then economics dictate lower salaries.

          • Steglitz49

            Why do you think that Fridolina Rolfö is leaving Linköping for Bayern Munich or Lotta Schelin went from Göteborg to Lyon in 2008?

          • mockmook

            “So then economics dictate lower salaries.”

            Not necessarily if you include the revenue made by the USSF as part of the economics of the combined entity, USSF/NWSL

          • Steglitz49

            Is that correct?

          • #1Fan

            my comment is a response to the post above.

        • guest

          “The USSF need to remove the NWSL subsidy” Doesn’t the USSF have an interest in promoting club soccer in this country? Subsidizing the league through player allocation is one way to do that. Personally, I would increase the WNT pool, and pay a bonus to players who make the WC squad.

          • #1Fan

            they could spend that money in Club soccer far better and get a far better return. Economics have already shown that the USA has no interest in a commercially viable WoSo league. It has failed multiple times. So why are we pretending that playing for the WNT is a PROFESSION in itself worth hundreds of thousand s of dollars when playing outside the NT is worth 6-12 k for the majority of the league?

          • guest

            “why are we pretending that playing for the WNT is a PROFESSION” It’s a good job if you can get it, and as far as I’m concerned, they’re entitled to whatever they can get.

            The fact of the matter is the WNT’s contract with the USSF was freely negotiated, and since the fed hasn’t declared bankruptcy yet, I’m assuming they know what they’re doing.

            Not that I agree with the current entitlement system. They need to move towards more competition for roster spots, and that all begins with a healthy club league.

          • #1Fan

            we fundamentally disagree that playing for your country should be treated a s a profession. Once the amounts being paid to do it are material in the context of your actual income form your profession, then the problems really start. I am a bit surprised that I hear no attempt to “get what they can” form the NWSL teams they play for. given their huge marketing value right ?

  • guest

    I wasn’t left all that sympathetic toward their “plight” if I’m being honest. The derogatory marks towards the men’s team were interesting… a lot of the competition the women face looks like the equivalent of a high school team, and not even a good one. I’m not familiar enough with the numerical breakdown and exact pay structures/team profits to make a strong statement for or against them, and I don’t have the interest to parse through it but this program didn’t do a good job of convincing me.

    • #1Fan

      Fair, but the quality of opponent is not the issue. People showed up to watch the Chritians get fed to the lions. As long as people go and watch, $$ will be made. I tried to outline my feelings below, but to me, the WNT is trying to monetize national pride. People are going to watch the US WNT becasue it is the USA. a few more may watch thru name recognition, but its interesting that those people are not flocking to watch those same names in the NWSL and moving the needle so they get paid more. As soon as you start paying people a retainer to represent a country, it gets very complicated. You have to make medium term decisions that have no place in picking a team for one event or match. A retainer creates a sense of entitlement and not one of privilege.

      • rkmid71

        Totally agree about the NWSL. Other commentors like to state that WNT players justify their top NWSL salaries because no one would come to games if they weren’t playing. And therefore implying that the non WNT players wouldn’t even earn the $6k minimum. Heck Rapinoe only showed up for 5 games for Seattle last season and Solo for 8. Did Seattle attendance collapse in the games they weren’t there? How about Lloyd and Brian in Houston? They missed a lot of games. Portland fans would show up regardless.

        • anon

          I think that argument applies mainly to Alex Morgan. Did attendance numbers for houston collapse (not that they were great to begin with) when Queen Carli wasn’t there? What about Christen Press or JJ for Chicago – they don’t seem to move the needle that much and they are two of the most popular WNT players.

          • annie

            Chicago’s problem is a lack of interest in women’s soccer in general. I do think attendance for the Red Stars and Spirit was better when the NT players were there.

          • #1Fan

            better Im sure, but enough to move the needle ..no.

          • #1Fan

            i dont see how Morgan is a special case in any way as far as this goes. Is AM a big star because of the WNT or is she just such a transcendent player that she brings in crowds where ever she plays. I hope she goes to France, I really do.

          • rkmid71

            She’s not Marta. I would go to see the Brazilian WNT whenever they come to play in my area. Just a fun fan experience and you never know what Marta and her teammates are going to do. Need to get Marta back in the NWSL before she gets too much older. And those Brazilian fans would come out in force, the party, samba, etc.

          • Steglitz49

            It seems that Marta’s heart is in Sweden. She speaks the language fluently and is loved by WoSo fans. Even ordinary people know who Marta is. No need to change.

          • rkmid71

            Dammit. Well enjoy Marta while you can, I was hoping Brazil would win OG….in a Brazil vs. USA final. Those damn Swedes.

          • Steglitz49

            Norway in 1995 and 2000, Japan in 2011 …

          • Steglitz49

            Alex Morgan is a Megastar. Marta is a bigger name but who is bigger than Alex in the good ol’ US of A? Even Trump may know who Alex is.

            Alex is not going to France. What on earth for?

          • #1Fan

            Megastar in what way? I dont think she attracts fans. She is the most marketable face on a National team. There will always be one.

          • Steglitz49

            When did the USWNT last have a player as wholesome as Alex to market? Mia Hamm?

            Who is that Jean-Michel Aulas, CEO of Lyon, wants to bag? You guessed right.

          • guest

            Fans scream for her even in the NWSL, so she may be the exception that proves the rule

          • #1Fan

            but not enough to move the needle.

          • guest

            The needle is moving, slowly.

          • #1Fan

            it is ? So we want megastar treatment for people that move the needle slowly?

      • Steglitz49

        You could argue that the “retainer” is a death sentence because the American people must know by now that they bombed in OG-16 and there is no serious game till the summer of 2019.

      • guest

        “the WNT is trying to monetize national pride” Yes, but the MNT do the same thing, so isn’t what’s good for the goose good for the gander? That’s the whole point of their suit.

        • #1Fan

          dont see it like that at all. monetizing it thru a multi year contract with it is VERY different to receiving a game by game stipend to represent it.

          • guest

            The WNT is slowly evolving toward the MNT model

          • #1Fan

            what evidence do you have for this ?

          • Steglitz49

            None.

            Judging by the row, WoSo is becoming more dependent on BroSo, not less. Hopefully it is a phase that WoSo transits through but only time will tell.

            National pride is at work in the international tournaments like the WC, OG and Euros. The most watched event ever in Swedish TV history is the 2003 ladies WC final. Almost 50% of the population watched. Like 150m Americans had watched the WC-15 final instead of ca 25m.

          • guest

            “Judging by the row, WoSo is becoming more dependent on BroSo” Stop trying to smear US soccer with your sugar daddy notions.

          • Steglitz49

            The two expansion teams of the NWSL are kept by MLS-teams.

            The owners that defray the other teams are male, as far as I know. And, btw Portland is also in bed with a male team.

            Lot’s of testosterone around, whichever way you sniff it.

          • guest

            More interest in club play, viz, NWSL.

          • #1Fan

            no idea what you mean by this , sorry.

          • guest

            Same here, bro. Maybe if you could just tell us what reforms would you implement to improve women’s soccer?

          • guest

            From what I gather, you want the women to be treated like the men and get a bonus (stipend?) for NT play. That’s fine, except the women so far haven’t been able to support themselves through their club contracts alone, and have to rely on their NT contracts instead. If the NWSL succeeds, players will be less dependent on the NT, the CBA can be abolished, and the NT will be able to call whomever they like, a win-win situation for everyone. What we’re arguing about, I’m not sure.

          • #1Fan

            not really. The women want to be treated like the men. So lets remove salaries, pay the stipend on a per game basis and see what happens . Is that not equality? Why is it conditional on IF the NWSL succeeds? The women are not making it conditional on that. In fact they dont seem to care much about the non NT side of things. so why should anyone else.

          • Steglitz49

            They want to have their cake and eat it.

            The officers are more than OK even with abject failure of an unprecedented embarrassment while the crew slave at the oars.

            There have been two big signings in WoSo this weak so far: Fridolina Rolfö to Bayern Munich and Maren Mjelde to Chelsea Ladies. Time will tell which Americans will be abroad.

          • guest

            “Is that not equality?” Yeah, the women should be careful what they ask for, because they might get it. Equality, for me, means the women getting the same % of revenue as the men. But the judge might let them keep their contract too, so you never know.

            What the women want, they probably don’t even know. I’m sure their lawyer is pulling all the strings anyway, and was no doubt trying to ride the wave of goodwill towards women this election season, but that tide went out already.

          • Steglitz49

            Ina lean year a USWNT member makes about $150,000 and in a fat year $250-300,000. Thus, by Bombing in Brasila they lost out on $100-150,000, more like the top end figure.

            Few, if any, women in WoSo in the world make $150,000 let alone $300,000. The crew of the NWSL makes between about $7,500 to $38,000.

            Then there are the health and dental care bits of the puzzle.

          • guest

            well, the uswnt players could actually get a second job like alot of other americans are doing now a days until economic conditions improve like doing soccer camps or youth coaching.

  • abc

    maybe carli lloyd should delete those photos she posted of herself flying in first class given her complaints about flying coach last night. lmao.

    • annie

      Her sponsor, United, paid for her to fly first class.

      • Fragile 33

        That poor girl of a second class citizen

  • abc

    also, when are they going to drop Rampone? It will be absurd if she is allocated and contracted again this year (someone said she was being allocated again – how would you know this at this point in time?)

    • CED

      Rampone is still listed as a Federation Player when teams made their lists of players options, release, etc… So, as of Oct 19th she is still allocated and not terminated or not renewed for 2017. Now compare that to a player like Engen who had her NT contract terminated and thus was no listed as a Federation player. Other players also had contracts not renewed and are not listed as Fed players like Hinkle, while Rampone is still listed. The fact is Rampone is allocated until further notice while others have been shown the door. It’s ridiculous.

      • guest

        if rampone is allocated she should at the very least be required to attend the uswnt camps. she got paid for the entire year and didn’t participate in any uswnt games or camps. she got paid to do nothing all year. her contract should have been dropped after the olympics. this is just further proof that the uswnt annual salaries are guaranteed. nobody get’s dropped mid-year unless you are a hope solo disaster. i guess this year was a going away retirement gift for her. just another example of the lack of equal opportunity on the uswnt.

  • CED

    The piece was incredibly poor journalism and amounted to propaganda full of purposeful lies, distortions, silly comparisons, etc,,,if you understand the facts. Of course they are depending on the ignorant public to not know better and they will surely not disappoint in not obtaining the facts. I particularly loved the whopper on the 5.2M supposed profit which they know is utter BS now as they had no VT. Lack of VT reduced revenue by about 4M alone. Also, the attendance numbers are lower than the projections

    • rkmid71

      I recall that they stated that USSF itself was forecasting the WNT to make that $5.2m profit in FY 2016. And that they won’t come close to achieving that and the reason was due to the WNT underperformance. It just reinforces the USSF position. You can’t take one exceptional year in 2015 and say that’s the new normal when there is no precedent in history and even looking forward the updated forecast (8 or 9 months of actuals and 3 months of forecast to end of fiscal year in Feb 2017). FY 2016 will be a reversion to pre 2015. And especially when the historical losses were only partially recovered in the one year of profit in 2015.

      • Guest

        I wouldn’t be so sure of that. Obviously it depends on the average ticket price but the 6 games they played following the olympics they averaged over 16000 fans wich is right in line with their original projections with 4 less games. Obviously thats 4 less friendlies than were originally scheduled but they still have time to get some more in early next year plus the sbc. They could potentially get close to the projections if those numbers hold up and they don’t strike.

        • Steglitz49

          Are you talking USSF or the players? USSF won’t care if the players strike.

        • CED

          You clearly haven’t seen how the budget projections are done. The 4 less games means over 3.2M less in revenue(800k/game). The last 2 pre wcup sendoff game were budgeting at 24K attendance per game at avg ticket price of $50. The 2 games had attendance of 19,272 and 12,635. Those 2 games of poor attendance dropped revenue by $804,000 from the projections. Also, the lack of VT drops revenue another way, USSF projects VT games at premium pricing compared to regular friendlies. Avg ticket projections for VT game is $6 more b/c they charge more for VT games

          • Guest

            True but they also don’t need to pay each player 200000 in bonuses. I already qualified by saying if they don’t strike implying that the fed could schedule more friendlies early next year.

          • CED

            You need to actually see the budget and the projections. Loss of 4 games by not having a VT is 803K per game which totals 3.212M in revenue assuming 1 the premium pricing of $50 avg ticket. It’s actually more revenue loss b/c regular friendlies avg ticket cost if $44 avg. The team expenses of regular game is 112K while a VT is 266K(the factor in the bonuses).

            6 friendlies vs 6 VT’s is revenue reduction of 53K/game based on lower ticket prices if you get same attendance. That’s 318K less revenue

            Not having 4 VT’s is a loss of 3,212M in revenue

            There also is a reduction of 250K in revenue by not winning from FIFA.

            Total minimum revenue reduction is 3,78M from not winning OG. Btw, WNT based on lower attendance pre OG was off projections by 415K

            So, as of now revenue projections are off by 4.195M while the reduction in team expenses is much less. The savings you are projecting by not having VT are not really savings b/c the VT is self funding. The VT exists to pay the 75K/each and 1.8M team bonus.

          • Steglitz49

            Does FIFA give a bonus in an Olympic year? I thought that they only gave bonus in their own competitions.

          • HOFCToDi

            FIFA is corrupt and inept. The CSA won the turf war.

          • Steglitz49

            The game in Brasilia was played on grass; maybe that explains why the USWNT bombed?

          • HOFCToDi

            You don’t know the definition of a bomb, dumbass.

          • Steglitz49

            It was a Miracle on Grass, for sure, to be sure.

          • HOFCToDi

            It was explained to you by another poster. Your stupidity has been proven to be unparalleled.

          • Steglitz49

            The question was whether FIFA gave out bonuses in an Olympic year, something which I doubt. Do you know?

          • Guest

            Did you read what I wrote. The fiscal year doesn’t end until March 31. Unless they strike, I imagine there will be more friendlies scheduled early next year before this date. What I said originally was that if they played another 4 friendlies before the fiscal year ends and keep the attendance numbers high they might get close which is obviously a big if. I also mentioned that the average ticket price matters in terms of revenue generated. I calculate that the difference in revenue over 10 games with an attendance average of 16773 between an average ticket price of $44 instead of 50$ is about $1 million dollars. Still, if they can attract the fans they have been there’s really no financial reason not to try and generate more revenue when fans clearly don’t care at all about the competition.

            Okay, My estimates were off on the bonuses thanks for the correction. The federation is still saving some money. Fivethirtyeight in an article posted Solo’s earnings in 2015 which showed that she earned a $78,000 VT bonus and a $75,000 bonus for winning the WC. It stands to reason that the Olympics bonuses would have been similar and things that the USSF would have accounted for in their budget and no longer have to pay those bonuses for 18 players. Those are now expenses that the USSF doesn’t have to pay. The 1.8 million dollar bonus by the way only covers the VT bonus if I am doing the math correctly based on Solo’s income last year. The federation covered the WC win bonus with other funds.

            Does any of this guarantee that the WNT will make a net profit this year? Obviously not. I’m just not positive that they won’t make one at all and am interested in seeing the final numbers. It might take a while though considering the USSF has not posted the year ended 2016 audited financial statement yet.

          • Steglitz49

            Thus, the SBC would be in this financial year. Correct?

          • rkmid71

            Yes. Last year SBC was March 3-9. I was wrong on exact end to fiscal year. March 31 not end of Feb. A lot will depend on what WNT does after CBA expires end of year. It’s hard to see how such an antagonistic approach will help in any way to achieve a constructive relationship with USSF in terms of achieving budget #’s. Last yr at SBC, 3 tickets covered 6 ganes. Attendance averaged 17,297 per venue. I assume the revenue would be split 4 ways. Roughly 17,297*3*44 per ticket/4= $570k to each team. Obviously France, Germany and England have more expenses, so not sure how revenue is shared.

          • Steglitz49

            Traditionally in a club match the visiting team gets 1/3 of the gate but the home team keeps the income from food, other concessions etc. As you note, with the extra travel and hotel expenses, some deal must have been worked out.

            I think of financial years as Jan 1st to Dec 31st. The Brits and former British Empire stays with March 31st.

          • HOFCToDi

            Steglitz49 is a blithering idiot, a clueless moron, and a worthless troll.

            http://www.ussoccer.com/about/governance/2016-annual-general-meeting

          • mockmook

            IF they are near the point of maximizing revenue, then a rise in ticket prices will be accompanied by a fall in number of tickets sold.

            IOW, there will be little effect on revenue if the average ticket price fluctuates a little.

          • CED

            Look at the budget/projections. It’s not hard to understand but you refuse to acknowledge it or look up known info on this. FY 2017 budget was based on 2 games in Feb with 17K/attendance. So anything below that drops WNT even more behind the 4.2M they are behind revenue projections now. The FY also includes 3 SBC games at 17K attendance. This is known info.

            Read the annual meeting report.

            The VT covers the 1.8M team bonus the 75K each bonus is USSF taking a leap of faith. They are hoping they make it up by higher numbers than the projections throughout the course of the year. If you look up financials from past OG’s like 2012, it didn’t pan out and USSF has thus taken losses on WNT. That’s how USSF works . For example, USSF pays 15K/each roster bonus for OG quals and final roster, they aren’t getting paid by IOC or FIFA for OG quals. Same with Wcup. The roster bonus for Wcup quals and final roster are more than the FIFA payments for making the Wcup. Now contrast that to the men, first they only receive a final roster bonus and it is less than the payment they receive from FIFA for qualifying.

          • Steglitz49

            We can agree that it is an awful lot of money.

            To put it into context, Zlatan earns about $320,000 per week at Manchester United. Yet, his weekly wage is small compared to NBA’s lesser known players. For example Timofey Mozgov earns about $285,000 per week. What LeBron James earns …. ?$600,000 a week?

          • HOFCToDi

            Read the topic of discussion:

            USWNT to discuss labor fight on 60 Minutes

            No one gives a damn about SWE association football, idiot.

          • Steglitz49

            NBA is American. Zlatan is not the highest paid male fottballer. Both Messi and CR7 earn more.

          • HOFCToDi

            Non sequitur, dumbass.

            Read the topic of discussion:

            USWNT to discuss labor fight on 60 Minutes

            No one gives a damn about SWE association football, idiot.

          • Steglitz49

            The brothers in the NBA support their sisters. Don’t know about WoSo, though.

          • HOFCToDi

            Non sequitur.

            Read the topic of discussion:

            USWNT to discuss labor fight on 60 Minutes

            No one gives a damn about SWE association football, clown.

            Enjoy the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

            Find an European website to troll. Nobody gives a damn about SWE, a women’s national football team to never win a FIFA Women’s World Cup.

          • Steglitz49

            Swedes do and turnips ought.

          • HOFCToDi

            Read the topic of discussion:

            USWNT to discuss labor fight on 60 Minutes

            No one gives a damn about SWE association football, clown.

            Enjoy the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

            Find an European website to troll.

          • guest

            the uswnt has camp in january so no friendlies that months. that would leave february before the end of the fiscal year.

    • USMNTfan4life

      It was totally propoganda on the highest order. A puff piece, and it should have had someone counter the claims made by the WNT members and their lawyer.

      • rkmid71

        What did they think those kids were going to say when asked whether they would support them going on strike? I would have laughed out loud if one them had said “no, they should negotiate a reasonable good faith compromise based on agreed facts”. I recall Lloyd stated they would strike “as long as it took” to get what they want. It will be interesting to see whether ALL players, whether NT or non-NT, support that, who crosses the picket line so to speak. Lloyd talked about the need for unity among players. Of course, that’s in her and the current allocated players personal best interest, not so much for the non WNT players. Why is Rampone still allocated? And not playing much in over 2 yrs. What are non WNT players supposed to think about that? Do the non WNTPA players even know the details? I think they did get a USSF statement, but USSF apparently refused to be drawn into claims / counter claims on a 15 minute news program. But very poor journalism and not a good reflection on CBS or that crew who put it together. Also, Morgan Brian didn’t say much, or it got edited out. I would have liked to hear more from her.

      • guest

        If we learned one thing this year, it’s that puff pieces and propaganda are the mass media’s stock in trade.

  • Steglitz49

    Not surprisingly, this year’s Football Gala in Sweden majored on the achievement of the ladies (as well as the usual praise of Zlatan). Matches and goals were relived.
    Laleh sang “Goliat” for the ladies. Pia used the song to motivate the players. They were glamorous in their evening dresses. Here are all the ladies awards:

    The Diamond-ball: Hedvig Lindahl, Chelsea.

    Goalie of the year: Hedvig Lindahl, Chelsea.
    BackOTY: Linda Sembrant, Montpellier
    MFOTY: Marta, Rosengård
    ForwardOTY: Pernille Harder, Linköping.
    Damallsvenskan’s MVP: Pernille Harder, Linköping.
    — Pernille is leaving Linköping for a “big” club, probably German.
    COTY: Stellan Carlsson, Piteå.
    RookOTY: Johanna Rytting Kaneryd, Djurgården.
    RefOTY: Sara Persson.

    Many thought that Lisa Dahlkvist might get the Diamond-ball (a hideously ugly trophy btw) but Lindahl got the nod a second time.

    • CED

      More useless blather as expected.

      • Steglitz49

        Fridolina Rolfö just signed with Bayern Munich:
        https://fcbayern.com/de/news/2016/11/fcb-frauen-verpflichten-fridolina-rolfoe

        They say Stina Blackstenius is in conversation with 3 clubs, 2 of which allegedly are Lyon and PSG and the 3rd is also in France (maybe Montpellier?)

        • CED

          nobody cares…go blather on some sweden forum

          • Steglitz49

            Stina scored the 1-0 goal against the US in Brasilia, which makes her highly relevant. She also netted the 1-2 clawback against Germany in the final.

          • CED

            Nobody cares….find a sweden forum to blather about irrelevant nonsense and stop obsessing over another countries NT.

          • Steglitz49

            You are nearer to the truth than you might suspect and it illustrates the difficulties facing WoSo around the world because there was a forum in Sweden (damfotboll.com) that folded earlier this year after having been on the Web for 17 years.

            Seventeen years and then gone. Finished. Not enough money and not enough support.

            The changing face of WoSo: dependency on wealthy men’s teams.

          • Hans Castorp

            It cost like 10 bux a month to run a website lol

            woso may never make it out of its niche as a once per 4 year national tournament/olympic sport like downhill skiing/bob sledding/beach volleyball etc etc

            And that’s ok.

            In theory women should be interested in womens sports, in reality they couldn’t care any less than the men.

          • Steglitz49

            Ask Jeff Kassouff and he will keep you right.

            You have to write the articles, get the photos, manage the site, update the software etc. In the end, eventually you simply run out of gas. It is that simple.

            Women who are interested in soccer generally prefer the men’s game because it is faster and sharper and on the whole has a higher level of skill. All that goes with the big bucks and the fulltime training etc.

            The USWNT players are (among) the best paid WoSo-players in the world. In a fat year, like when they reach the final of the WC or OG, they pull in $250-300,000. That is what Zlatan earns in a week — and he is not the highest paid either.

          • HOFCToDi

            Read the topic of discussion:

            USWNT to discuss labor fight on 60 Minutes

            No one gives a damn about SWE association football, troll.

          • HOFCToDi

            Read the topic of discussion:

            USWNT to discuss labor fight on 60 Minutes

            No one gives a damn about SWE association football, loser.

          • Steglitz49

            CED must be sleeping with you.

        • HOFCToDi

          Read the topic of discussion:

          USWNT to discuss labor fight on 60 Minutes

          No one gives a damn about SWE association football, moron.

    • guest

      I thought Marta plays for Brazil.

      • Steglitz49

        Marta is Brazilian and Pernille Harder is Danish and plays for Denmark but the awards are open to all who play in Damallsvenskan and any Swede playing abroad except the Diamond-ball, which is reserved for Swedes.

        Pernille also won the golden boot because she became Goalscoring Queen.

        • HOFCToDi

          Read the topic of discussion:

          USWNT to discuss labor fight on 60 Minutes

          No one give a damn about Swedish association football, idiot.

          • Steglitz49

            There have been many and various rumors flying about on the EQ about which US player might be playing in Europe but instead so far the rich clubs in Europe hav been buying up the all conquering Swedish lasses, Fridolina Rolfö to Bayern Munich being unveiled yesterday.

          • HOFCToDi

            Read the topic of discussion:

            USWNT to discuss labor fight on 60 Minutes

            No one gives a damn about SWE association football, clown.

            Enjoy the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

          • Steglitz49

            CED and HOFCToDi must be identical twins if not the same junk.

    • HOFCToDi

      Read the topic of discussion:

      USWNT to discuss labor fight on 60 Minutes

      No one give a damn about Swedish association football, clown.

      • Steglitz49

        Hedvig Lindahl saved that penalty and the other one from Chicago flew over the cuckoo’s nest while Lisa Dahlkvist drove the stake through the heart of the USWNT and their sycophants.

        • HOFCToDi

          Read the topic of discussion:

          USWNT to discuss labor fight on 60 Minutes

          No one gives a damn about SWE association football, clown.

          Enjoy the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

  • mockmook

    Well, just watched the full video — that was painful.

    I don’t know how they think that this self-serving fight can be viewed a a great blow for women’s rights in general — they are incredibly tone deaf.

    • USMNTfan4life

      Yeah, very tone-deaf. Carli came across as delusional (“#1 Women’s team of all time, etc”). I think this segment may backfire on them, because it appeared to be packaged as a hagiography, or a puff-piece.

  • Lorehead

    If the USMNT keeps playing like they have been in WCQ, they might earn themselves equal pay with the USWNT after all.

    • CED

      The expected stupidity by you, never fail to disappoint.

      • Lorehead

        Go away, troll. You don’t even like WoSo.

        • CED

          The jack@ss is back to get abused b/c you can’t stand facts and are proud to put your ignorance on full display.

        • Steglitz49

          I think he is worse than a troll. he has at least a schizoid personality: one half is CED and the other half is HOFCToDi, and they inhabit the same skull.

      • Hans Castorp

        To be fair the USMNT is pure garbage and I would be fine with shutting them down and sparing us the embarrassment.

        • HOFCToDi

          Bye Bye Jurgen! Hello Sanity!

        • CED

          Your stupidity is noted!

          • Steglitz49

            Hans Castorp makes fine comments. He also keeps us à jour with some of the overseas leagues and players. Hans and Hugo make up for a lot.

    • HOFCToDi

      Jurgen Klinsmann proved to be an idiot.

    • USMNTfan4life

      LOL. Actually, the USSF is to blame, for both mens and women’s games. The federation fleeces fans by forcing them to pay large ticket costs for friendlies and meaningless games (that are not part of the qualifiication for the World Cup and the Olympics). I actually want Sunil to go, but he won’t as long as he has the support of the USSF Board.

      • Steglitz49

        Your point is well taken. Ticket prices and parking fees for WoSo are of a hwole different magnitude in the US comapred to Europe. It probably is profitable for European WNTs to travel to the US to play compared with playing the USWNT in their own land!

      • mockmook

        The federation fleeces fans by forcing them to pay large ticket costs

        Really? Do they use whips and cattle prods?

        • Steglitz49

          Let’s wait and see what 2017 and 2018 has in store, shall we?

      • CED

        Clueless!

  • CED

    The intellectual laziness of stories like this is why journalism is dead. If you actually look thru the section detailed senior national expenses the WNT was never projected to make 5+ million in profit, even before the lack of VT b/c OG loss. The false number was based on not looking at all expenditures. There is this huge line item purposely ignored called “non game expenditures” which for WNT was 4.02M, that same line for MNT is 1.23M That makes the WNT total expenditure projections 16.54M and revenue projected 17.58M(not happening b/c OG loss). The real projected surplus was 1.04M….btw none of this includes the 1.37M FY 17 expenditure on NWSL…Add the NWSL salaries for WNT and they were really projected to lose about 330K before the OG loss.

    • Steglitz49

      Please explain, my learned friend, how come the “non game expenditures” can be $4.02M for the lasses but only $1.23M for the lads. I had no idea that Tampax was so expensive.

      • CED

        Read the full annual general meeting report. The WNT presented BS, as usual knowing intellectually lazy media and people like you would not look up the full reports on each team. WNT purposely only looked at the event budget and not the section on full budget and expenditures for each team. The non game expenditures is consistently 2,3 or even approaching 4 times more for the WNT. FY 16 3.47M compared to 878K for MNT. FY 2015 3.35M to 1.17M, FY 14 2.98M to 823K.

        • Steglitz49

          What is the explanation, period protection apart?

          • CED

            Think, one group are salaried employees and others aren’t. That’s one large source of the discrepancy of about 2.5M yearly.

          • Steglitz49

            Is $2.5M enough? I had guessed more like $3.6M if that is the source of the discrepancy.

          • HOFCToDi

            You have a reading comprehension issue.

            The USSF is not accountable to a stupid Swede.

            Enjoy the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

          • Steglitz49

            I was working on the assumption of 25 players. His figure makes it $100,000 per player but that does not seem to include hidden employment costs.

            If You raise the ante to 144,000 and allow 33% for the hidden costs you get just under $100,000 and if you use 45% it puts it at about $80,000.

          • CED

            The approx 2.5M more WNT to MNT doesn’t include NWSL salaries which adds about another 1.3 to 1.4M. The simple fact is the supposed profit of WNT of 5+M was a farce by people not actually looking at the actual revenue and expenditures totals which were clearly laid out if people bothered to read them. The WNT purposely lied as per usual and an ignorant media repeated the lie.

          • Steglitz49

            OK. I follow you. Thanks.

          • guest

            “The WNT purposely lied” Where did the WNT lie now? Isn’t Flynn the man responsible for putting the budget together? It just doesn’t seem possible to lie when your presenting a budget.

          • CED

            That’s not the budget for the team, they knew it. ..Read the report…They lied and pretended an event budget is the actual full budget. The actual budget is all the expected revenue and all the expected expenses. They purposely neglected the report that gives the full numbers. They lied which has been their MO thru the entire CBA farce.

          • Steglitz49

            Lying is a bit strong. You could use the English expressions that they were economical with the truth and even the actuality.

          • CED

            Purposeful and intentional misrepresentation of facts you know is lying. They lied purposely excluding 25% of the expenses(4M+). The knew the next page of the report gives the actual expense totals. This is the like if of company excluded 25% of their costs and telling people they made a huge profit, while books show the actual full numbers.

          • Steglitz49

            It will be interesting to see what attendances will be like during 2017 and 2018. They may keep up in the absence of serious tournaments and the SBC could well be better attended but as like as not the numbers will be flat or even down.

          • HOFCToDi

            The USSF is not accountable to a stupid Swede.

            Enjoy the “Bomb in Papua New Guinea”.

          • Steglitz49

            iow, you don’t know. Thank you.

  • atalba

    Seems like a bunch of misinformation here. The U.S. Soccer Federation is a non-profit organization that must comply with the laws of our nation for equal pay. They’re not funded by the U.S. government and I don’t understand why anyone ties the NWSL as an impact to equal pay. Whatever the health of the NWSL has absolutely nothing to do with compliance. Whomever and however players are evaluated and given an opportunity to play for the national team is plainly biased opinion without merit; and nothing to do with pay.

    How the Federation receives revenues and who generates them is only part of the reasoning to go along with the law that they women must be paid equally. It’s the law. It has nothing to do with your opinion.

    Of course, equal pay for equal performance is an issue all across U.S. society. There’s not one industry that pays women and men of color the same rate as white men. Even the most progressive companies in Silicon Valley cannot figure this out. It is very cultural. You can argue that all day long, but facts are facts.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/thegoalkeeper/Details-of-US-Soccers-budget-for-national-teams-NWSL.html

    • guest

      “women must be paid equally” Do you want to qualify that? Should Candace Parker (LA Sparks) be paid the same as Lebron James?

      • atalba

        They don’t work for the same organization. They aren’t working for the same non-profit company. Technically speaking, working for the USSF is a job. And the non-profit organization must comply with US rules pertaining to employment.

        The NBA is organized for a good reason. They are currently in negotiations and are expected to sign an agreement sooner than they ever have.

        • guest

          They could pay the WNT and the MNT the same, but let’s say one team makes a profit each game and one team makes a loss every game they play, would you schedule fewer of the games that make a loss, and wouldn’t that be “unfair” treatment of those players? Or would you keep scheduling more of the games that are money-losers and ask Congress for more money for soccer?

          • atalba

            They don’t get funding from the U.S. government. Coca Cola and other sponsors pay their fair share. Read the friggin’ article. Pay for performance with the same incentives. You bring in more money, you earn higher levels of success, and you get paid more. Remember, it’s a business. Coca Cola doesn’t want to sponsor losers. They want winners. They want to show they are contributing as a corporate citizen. That only correlates to a contribution in success; not losers, like the MNT.

          • CED

            How dumb are you? Very!!! WNT has been a financial loser carried since it’s inception.

          • atalba

            Where are your facts??!?! If you have none, then it is your very biased opinion.

            Winning is commodity worth paying for, if your a corporation looking to fund USSF or any other organization.

          • atalba

            Here are the current sponsors. They’re in it to get a return on their investment…with winners.
            http://www.ussoccer.com/about/sponsors

          • CED

            Take a business course and call me.. You haven’t a clue…Sponsors value eyeballs..way more eyeballs see MNT than WNT in attendance, tv, and across all their events

          • atalba

            Facts?

          • CED

            You’re clearly ignorant of how business works. You f*cking moron a business cares about the number of people seeing their logo as sponsor. Why do you think some teams that never win championships have tons of sponsors as long as they have attendance numbers..eyeballs. Learn about marketing they value eyeballs. Poorer performance with tons of eyeballs means more than better performance and less eyeballs. It’s the small market vs big market team that is prevalent in pro sports. Look at Green Bay ad/sponsor revenue in small market that win and are competitive for a decade plus compared to Dallas, large market team that hasn’t won anything for 20 years and has struggled to make the playoffs, if it all. Dallas is #1 in ad/sponsor revenue even over large market teams like New England. Dallas doubles the next best team, which is over100+ million yr behind. Sponsors value eyeballs most, if they get wining it’s a bonus, they will tale many eyeballs of an avg team over a great team with less eyeballs..ie…smaller market.

          • HOFCToDi

            Sports TV Ratings for Sunday, 13 November 2016

            sportstvratings.com/nfl-countdown-nfl-insiders-sportscenter-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-sunday-november-13-2016/6840/

            USWNT, FS1 – 145,000 viewers

            Sports TV Ratings for Friday, 11 November 2016

            sportstvratings.com/indiana-kansas-hoops-usa-mexico-world-cup-qualifier-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-friday-november-11-2016/6829/

            USMNT, FS1 – 1,262,000 viewers

          • HOFCToDi

            How did you phrase it? Oh yeah, facts are facts.

            Sports TV Ratings for Sunday, 23 October 2016

            sportstvratings.com/giants-rams-in-london-nascar-sprint-cup-talladega-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-sunday-october-23-2016/6565/

            USWNT, FS1 – 149,000 viewers

            Sports TV Ratings for Wednesday, 19 October 2016

            sportstvratings.com/cubs-dodgers-indians-blue-jays-warriors-preseason-game-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-wednesday-october-19-2016/6508/

            USWNT, ESPN2 – 169,000 viewers

          • HOFCToDi

            How did you phrase it? Oh yeah, facts are facts.

            Home Matches (Sep, Oct, Nov)
            Sports TV Ratings
            USWNT – 1,184,000 viewers (6 matches)
            USMNT – 2,366,000 viewers (3 matches)

          • Steglitz49

            Is it known which sponsors which or is it a overall sponsoring.

            For example, in England Continental sponsors the FA women’s league cup. Hence it is known as the Continental Cup but shortened to Conti Cup.

            In Ireland Continental sponsor the whole ladies league.

            In England Budweiser sponsors the men’s FA Cup but the FA women’s Cup is sponsored by SSE.

            The total prize money on offer for the SSE Women’s FA Cup has been tripled. Almost £240,000 will be distributed throughout this season’s competition, up from £70,000 last year. The winning club will receive £25,000, instead of £5,000 as in previous years, and the runners-up will receive £15,000

          • CED

            You’re the newest @sshat here clearly who has never looked up the financial disaster the WNT has been since it’s inception.. Btw, idiot sponsor corporations value tv viewers and attendance ..ie..people seeing their product linked to the sponsor. The MNT dwarf WNT. The MNT events are many times more viewers and attendance Wcup quals, Gold Cup, Wcup. etc…

          • guest

            Not true, average friendly attendance this year for MNT: 9,000; for the WNT: 18,000.

          • guest

            soccer game attendance is more than friendlies. there is also world cup qualifying and copa america games. when those figures are considered, usmnt attendance is alot more than the uswnt.

          • guest

            for the 2016 year.

          • CED

            Please stop showig your ignorance. 1st you clearly have no idea this is based on FY not calendar years. Second, you are using the silly WNT logic that only friendlies matter….The money is actually in official FIFA events..Wcup, Gold Cup, Copa America, etc… The WNT is nothing morethan a traveling circus of friendlies b/c WoSo sucks. MNT plays only when in official FIFA events and a few scattered games to prep for them. It’s b/c they have real leagues to play in and don;t view playing for your country as your job b/c they have real club teams that pay them.

            Btw, you do know, of course you don;t b/c your too lazy or stupid to read the AGM that b/c MNT hosted Copa Centenario USSF got paid 15M. The MNT came in 4th which was 2.5M payment. That’s what you morons don;t get the MNT dwarfs the WNT b/c their big events, they aren;t concerned with putting on a traveling circus if 25 mostly worthless friendlies. Btw, you do know why USSF has to put on these games? It’s b/c as soon as the FY starts they have already committed to pay 3+M in salary, not to mention benefits, non game expenses of WNT that are 3 times higher for WNT before a single ball is kicked in a FY. They have to recoup the payouts by these worthless games. For MNT there is zero cost to start, costs only occur per game, no guaranteed salaries, benefits, etc…and there non games expenses are1/3 to 1/4 the WNT.

          • CED

            This has already explained you’re too dumb to understand why the MNT dwarfs the WNT.

          • guest

            read his links and figures posted earlier in the comments. the uswnt has only made a profit once in their thirty year history.

          • HOFCToDi

            You have none, dumbass.

            Oh yeah, facts are facts.

            Home Matches (Sep, Oct, Nov)
            Sports TV Ratings
            USWNT – 1,184,000 viewers (6 matches)
            USMNT – 2,366,000 viewers (3 matches)

          • Steglitz49

            200,000 vs 770,000 is a big difference. Worse, 200,000 in a nation of 315m people is very poor indeed. It would be like unto less than 7,000 tuning in to watch Sweden’s WNT play.

          • HOFCToDi

            You have none, dumbass.

            Oh yeah, facts are facts.

            ussoccer.com/about/governance/2016-annual-general-meeting

            The women’s national team revenue projections were based upon a ten game Victory Tour not a six game Choke Tour.

            page 57

            The women’s national team revenue projections were based upon 48,000 attendance for the month of July not 31,907.

            page 57

          • guest

            “Pay for performance with the same incentives” If you offer pay without any regard to the economics, for example paying a % of the revenue, then your finances are going to be out of whack, and you’re going to have to beg for money, from the MNT, a sheikh, a sugar daddy, or Congress, pick your poison. Pay has to be based on economics.

          • atalba

            Makes sense to me. If you can break down the portion of the Coppertone sponsorship, and AT&T, Coca Cola, etc, you can separate the revenues. What’s important is to have the incentives the same. Fair but not equal pay. If the women have a case, it will be based on being paid with the same incentives of pay. I’d say most but the beer sponsorship would go nearly even; except for Coppertone.

            The men’s expenses are 3x the women’s. You can’t see what their revenues by team are in their Income Statement, and that’s probably the exact reason the women have legal grounds.

          • guest

            the uswnt players don’t want the same incentives of pay. they don’t want to drop their guaranteed salaries and benefits which the usmnt don’t get.. they want to keep their salary and benefits and also get the same bonus as the uswnt. that is not fair or equal.

          • Steglitz49

            It is difficult to see why the men’s expenses are 3x the ladies’ unless they travel 1st class and stay in 5-star hotels and eat in expensive places.

            It reminds me of OG-12 when Japan flew their U23 men’s team business class though they had not won anything any significance but flew their women World Champions coach.

          • guest

            The MNT expenses were 3X the WNT in 2015 because they went to Brazil, supposedly. It would be interesting to see what the expenses were for the WNT in Brazil this past summer, They played the same number games, yes?

          • guest

            the uswnt are losers now too after the rio olympic disaster.

        • mockmook

          You’re prime error is in believing that WoSo an BroSo are the same job.

          They are not. They are not even the same sport.

          Women cannot do the job that the men are doing — not successfully.

          • #1Fan

            Could not agree more.

          • atalba

            Interesting. I doubt that would hold up in a court of law. I’m sure we’ll find out.

          • Guest

            If it was the exact same job they would be playing with the men. They should be viewed as separate sports. I think that the USSF should pay them more and stop doing the shady nontransparent stuff with SUM but I think the contract structure should also be more like the men and would like to see the USSF pump more money into the nwsl instead of lining the pockets further of those who already have more than most in all of WoSo. I don’t really like the equal play thing either. I think they should be pushing for fair play. It’s purposely serves as a PR rallying cry that seems kind of disingenuous. I don’t they want to drop their yearly salary structure and other benefits to match the men’s payment structure.

          • atalba

            You put it in a more reasonable argument. I still think as one non-profit organization, they will have no legal choice but to set up the incentives equally based on revenue and success.

          • Steglitz49

            It is too early to tell yet but next year the USWNT does not have that many matches in the US, where they make their money.

            If they go on a tour of Europe before Euro-17 how does that affect their pay, seeing that the USSF claim that they lose money on games abroad?

            The US will not stage a major ladies tournament till after 2023/4.

          • mockmook

            You.re right that a court may see it another way, but that doesn’t make it the incorrect way.

          • Steglitz49

            How would the court rule on equivalence for the male and female NTs? What would the court equalize to?

            I know that it is hard to predict what courts would say.

          • HOFCToDi

            Not even the same interest level.

            Sports TV Ratings for Sunday, 13 November 2016

            sportstvratings.com/nfl-countdown-nfl-insiders-sportscenter-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-sunday-november-13-2016/6840/

            USWNT, FS1 – 145,000 viewers

            Sports TV Ratings for Friday, 11 November 2016

            sportstvratings.com/indiana-kansas-hoops-usa-mexico-world-cup-qualifier-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-friday-november-11-2016/6829/

            USMNT, FS1 – 1,262,000 viewers

            Sports TV Ratings for Thursday, 10 November 2016

            sportstvratings.com/browns-ravens-bulls-heat-north-carolina-duke-football-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-thursday-november-10-2016/6819/

            USWNT, ESPN2 – 212,000 viewers

      • HOFCToDi

        Let ’em starve.

        Let ’em play for per diem, just like the good ole days.

    • CED

      Keep promoting your nonsensical propaganda. The WNT has been overpaid for decades. Btw, there are many reasons this nonsensical argument falls apart. Revenue, salaried vs per diem employees, etc..

      • atalba

        You’re basing your opinion on bias; not facts.

        • CED

          You’re basing your argument on nonsense and emotion instead of clear facts. The WNT based their entire case on intentionally lies.

        • HOFCToDi

          How did you phrase it? Oh yeah, facts are facts.

          ussoccer.com/about/governance/2016-annual-general-meeting

          The women’s national team revenue projections were based upon a ten game Victory Tour not a six game Choke Tour.

          page 57

          The women’s national team revenue projections were based upon 48,000 attendance for the month of July not 31,907.

          page 57

    • atalba

      Actually the USSF was appointed as the manager of the NWSL, which provides that the Federation will perform all management, governance, operational;, administrative, and advisory services for the NWSL. The Federation does not receive any management fees or rent as part of the arrangement. I don’t think this is germane, but I was technically wrong about the ties.

    • HOFCToDi

      You are an idiot.

      ussoccer.com/about/governance/2016-annual-general-meeting

      resources.ussoccer.com/images/160127-AGM-PDF-FINAL.pdf

      Facts are Facts:

      Revenues
      Women’s National Team Events – $17,588,500

      Expenses
      Women’s National Team Expenses – $16,542,820
      NWSL Expenses – $1,225,552

      Net
      Women’s National Team – ($179,872)

      • CED

        Went over this before with them, they refuse to understand. They bought the lie WNT told which didn’t show all their expenses to get the 5+M profit projection

        • atalba

          You’re just making stuff up. Put up or shut up. Or represent it as your opinion.

          • HOFCToDi

            Put up or shut up.

            resources.ussoccer.com/images/160127-AGM-PDF-FINAL.pdf

            Revenues (page 68)
            Women’s National Team Events – $17,588,500

            Expenses (page 71)
            Women’s National Team – $16,542,820
            NWSL – $1,225,552

            Net
            Women’s National Team – ($179,872)

        • HOFCToDi

          The vast majority of posters are either too lazy or too stupid to read the entire 2016 AGM Report.

          ussoccer.com/about/governance/2016-annual-general-meeting

          • atalba

            I guess some have pointed this out previously. It does say the women netted $5M from gate revenues, where the men lost about $1M.

          • HOFCToDi

            Read the entire report.

            Read the revenue details and expense details (pp. 68-75).

          • atalba

            It clearly states the women are projected to bring in more revenue than the men in 2016.

          • HOFCToDi

            Since when is the Copa América Centenario associated with the women’s national team?

            You are so stupid, you can’t read a balance sheet.

          • HOFCToDi

            You truly are a dumbass

            Let review the CONCACAF sanctioned events:

            2016 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            USWNT
            Attendance
            8,143
            15,032
            7,658
            5,561
            10,119

            2016 Copa América Centenario
            USMNT
            Attendance
            67,439
            39,642
            51,041
            47,332
            70,858
            29,041

          • atalba

            That $15M shows up as 2017 budgeted revenue. Page 68 clearly states the women brought in more money. Your attendance figures do not show up on this page, and appears to be irrelevant.

          • HOFCToDi

            You can’t read a balance sheet. You are a blithering idiot, a clueless moron, and a worthless troll.

            page 68
            Extraordinary Income (Copa America) – $15,000,000

            2016 Copa América Centenario
            USMNT
            Attendance
            67,439
            39,642
            51,041
            47,322
            70,858
            29,041
            Total = 305,343 (6 matches)

          • HOFCToDi

            Allow me to explain so an idiot like you can understand.

            Copa América Centenario

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Am%C3%A9rica_Centenario

            The Copa América Centenario was an international men’s association football tournament that was hosted in the United States in 2016.

            Get it dumbass? International men’s association football tournament not women’s.

          • atalba
          • HOFCToDi

            It’s called a separate line item, dumbass.

          • atalba

            And listed under FY17 projections.

          • HOFCToDi

            So what?

            Page 52

            For the fiscal year ending March 31, 2017 (“FY’17”) we are presenting a budgeted operating surplus highlighted by continued strategic investments in the areas of technical development, programming infrastructure, our brand and our fan base.

            My god, you truly are a dumbass.

          • atalba

            So I’m right, and I can read a financial statement.

          • HOFCToDi

            You just completely ignore the $15,000,000 towards the men’s national team ledger.

            page 68
            Extraordinary Income (Copa America) – $15,000,000

            2016 Copa América Centenario
            USMNT
            Attendance
            67,439
            39,642
            51,041
            47,322
            70,858
            29,041
            Total = 305,343 (6 matches)

          • HOFCToDi

            Next year, the men’s national team will have the CONCACAF Gold Cup and women’s national team will have nothing.

          • CED

            You’re wrong and too stupid to admit it, as usual. You keep pushing BS nonsense even though you’re getting destroyed by clear facts and financials. You’re literally to stupid to breathe so thank goodness for you it’s autonomic process and too bad for the rest of the world that had to deal with your stupidity

          • HOFCToDi

            The women’s national team revenue projections were based upon a ten game victory tour not a six game choke tour.

            page 57

          • CED

            You really are stupid!

          • guest

            that was a best case scenario the uswnt portrayed. we now know that will not happen after the uswnt rio olympic disaster.

          • CED

            Learn to read…Those were projections which all fall apart b/c of their OG performance.

            Another point, while the game revenue for the MNT playing in Copa America was not included, those are MNT games. MNT was the host for Copa and USSF got paid 15M for that. How much did the WNT SBC generate in revenue? Pittance in comparison. Also, b/c MNT finished 4th that was 2.5M payout, The payout for placements for Copa were not known when the projections were made and nor could they assume a certain finish, so those were not included. Simple fact is MNT dwarfs the WNT once again.

        • HOFCToDi

          Speaking of profit …..

          page 68
          Extraordinary Income (Copa America) – $15,000,000

      • atalba

        The NWSL earnings, revenues, and losses are totally on the owners of the teams. They have absolutely nothing to do with the non-profit USSF organization. So by their own figures the USSF makes money on the women. Thanks for pointing out the facts.

        On top of that, you also need to include the intangible factor of winning. You don’t get sponsors if you’re a loser. Winning accounts for much of the sponsorship.

        • HOFCToDi

          The USSF subsidizes the NWSL. Those are the facts. You are so stupid, you can’t read a balance sheet.

      • guest

        Where is the $46.8M in revenue from sponsorships (page 68)? If we assume the WNT earned a third of that, that’s $15M, enough to put the WNT (way) in the black.

    • Steglitz49

      Given that the USWNT just had its worst year ever in terms of lack of achievement and seeing that there are no serious matches till summer of 2019, the USWNT could get a worse deal than they have now. A much worse deal.

      The courts may well rule along some sort of equivalence basis but the devil is in the details and the those devils may be worse for the USWNT than they have considered.

      The whole strategy was based on the women being expected to collect the OG-16 gold in a walk. They were the massive favorites. They did not. Their strategy is in tatters. After the Bomb in Brasilia, the trick would have been to lie low and mend fences.

    • guest

      is the ussf a non-profit organization that must comply with the laws of our nation for equal opportunity with respect to the uswnt also?

    • mockmook

      Unless you can prove an allegation, it is not a fact.

      Pay disparity doesn’t always mean discrimination — there are a million things that can account for it.

      BTW, can you define for me what “men of color” is?

      • Steglitz49

        colorful men? such as stride the stage and strut their stuff?

  • guest

    Here’s my income statement for the WNT based on what HOFC did below, but including a third the sponsorship revenue (page 68) of $46.8M, which is a conservative estimate of what they might have brought in:

    Income Statement – gain/(loss)
    ——————————————————-
    Revenues (page 68)
    Women’s National Team Events: $17,588,500
    Sponsorships: 15,000,000

    Expenses (page 71)
    Women’s National Team: (16,542,820)
    NWSL: (1,225,552)

    Net Income
    Women’s National Team: $14,820,128

    • CED

      LOL….So you finally gave up the nonsense and realize the WNT profit number was a lie but the new BS is that you made up a number on sponsorship…You people are desperate as your farce argument has fallen apart.

      • guest

        I didn’t see anybody include the sponsorship money as part of WNT income, so I went ahead and added it.

        SUM must lump the WNT and MNT sponsorship money together, but if you figure the MNT get 2/3 of the total viewership, then the WNT is entitled to a third of the sponsorship money. This is just a rough estimate, obviously. Maybe someone can give us a better number for share of viewership.

        • CED

          Like I said pure desperation as the WNT false premise of profit was crushed. For the 100th time WNT revenue is not even coming close to the projections b/c of OG, poor attendance, etc…it will be down 4+M.

          • Steglitz49

            What are you trying to prove? That the earth is flat, the moon is made of old cheese and that the USWNT care about others than themselves?

          • CED

            Your stupidity knows no bounds

          • guest

            Unless you can give a good reason why we shouldn’t include a good portion of that sponsorship money in their income, the WNT are earning millions of dollars for the USSF every year.

          • Steglitz49

            CED is not known to be reasonable.

            I is in his favor that he does not block other commentators, which must be counted him for merit.

            At the same time, I am not persuaded that women’s soccer collects much sponsorship money. Attendances at MLS games are much higher than at NWSL and I am not persuaded that an NT pulls much from sponsors.

          • guest

            Can you please find a mention of the MLS in the USSF’s financial statements?

          • Steglitz49

            Please make allowances for slack English.

            This week Maria Rydqvist, one of the Swedish X-country skiers, published a book, which essentially argues that there must be equality among the administrators of sport for the women to get their fair share in sports. Last year she wrote an article for the Swedish equivalent of the NYT on the same topic. As long as the power in the sports establishments are firmly in the hands of men, women will remain 2nd class.

          • guest

            Let me do a preemptive mea culpa here and say there is mention of the MLS in USSF’s financial statements, but only because they govern soccer in this country, nothing to do with sponsorships.

            I don’t see how you could count MLS sponsorship income towards USSF revenue anyway.

          • Steglitz49

            I was trying to make a point that it could well be that the sponsorship money comes through the men’s game even at NT level. Women’s soccer attracts precious little sponsorship anywhere except for the personal sponsorship for the odd mega-star like Alex.

            If you can find thee names of the sponsors, you can probably work out which contributes what. Alex even had a personal contract with Tampax, something I guess few men could pull off — well, maybe Zlatan could?

          • CED

            You clearly have no clue how sponsorship work for one. Second, MNT dwarfs WNT by 4 or 5 to 1 margin on tv viewers….game day eye balls is much more b/c their games are shown internationally. Third, even using your BS logic it just proves the WNT are overpaid compared to the MNT. If you use your dumb logic than MNT gets 3/4 ot 4/5ths of sponsorship as their ratings are 4 times as much, plus way more global broadcasts. MNT also get allocated to their ledger all of the 15M for Copa America , etc…The MNT by your logic makes USSF 60M. Btw, that means the WNT is overpaid b/c the MNT aren’t getting paid 5 or 6 times as much in FY 2017, if they were every MNT player would be getting 800-900K and they aren’t. They don;t even get that in Wcup years.

          • guestl

            Okay, so at least now you’re willing to admit the WNT earn part of that sponsorship money of $46M. The question now is how much of it, and SUM is not disclosing that figure.

            I agree the MNT viewership is larger the WNT’s and that’s why I made the conservative estimate of one third for the WNT, but I think you’re exaggerating the men’s numbers. Even if we lowered the WNT viewership share to a quarter, they would still be making millions for the USSF.

            I’m fine with discussing facts like share of viewership. Why was friendly attendance for the WNT twice that of the MNT this year? Interest in the MNT, thanks to their dismal performance this year, is at an all-time low.

          • CED

            OMG you’re dumb. I admitted no such thing. I said you don’t understand how sponsorship works, they sponsor the federation. They sponsor U teams, b/c if you have ever been to a U game there a sponsors all over everything. You’re understanding of this is none. You continue the desperate attempt to justify the WNT stupid argument based on lies, distortions, and complete misunderstanding on how anything works. They think a NT is a club team, which the first error in basis of the stupidity of their case.

          • CED

            How dumb are you? This has been explained a million times a real NT is based on actual FIFA tournies. Friendlies are just warm up games to prep for them. That’s how a real NT works. You morons think a NT is club team where 20 friendlies a yr is the purpose of a NT. The reason why WNT has 20 friendlies has already been explained but you’re not smart enough to get it. It’s done b/c USSF has a 4M salary expense before a game is played for WNT and another 4M in non game expenses yearly It’s zero salary for MNT to start a yr and the non game expenses are around 800K. MNT plays friendlies just to prep for real tournies or before Wcup qualifier hex begins. They did it right before Copa. The numbers for WNT have been shown to be sh*T and your desperation to make up BS is absolute laughable nonsense.

          • Steglitz49

            To be fair to the USWNT, they pull in the crowds who are prepared to pay a lot to watch them, and the NWSL season is short, so it stands to reason that the USWNT plays a lot of friendlies in the US.

            NWSL clubs have neither a domestic cup nor any Champions League matches to fit in. Go get the lolly while it is there, the more the merrier.

          • guest

            Yes, the WNT has a lot of friendlies to cover their salaries, and after that the money they bring in is pure profit. Even by your own admission of a 5 to 1 margin in favor of the men, the WNT earn millions for the USSF every year, which completely contradicts your claim that they’re perennial money losers. Now that you’ve been proven wrong by your own admission, would you please go away?

          • CED

            You have no clue how tings work. Leave this to intelligent people, therefore not yourself. Learn to read retard. I showed you that you have no idea how sponsorship works and that if you could read and comprehend you would know that you BS made up logic of WNT sponsorship profit is BS. I said that you idiot but you can’t read. ARE YOU F*CKING RETARDED? CAN YOU READ? COMPREHEND? Then, to indulge you f*cking stupidity which is not base in reality how sponsorship works, but just to show you dumb@ss by even your own made up logic the WNT ARE OVERPAID! DON’T DESERVE EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT MNT MAKES! You’re a dipshit that is desperate o justify the nonsense of a bunch of entitled psychofants that have no understanding of sports, marketing, etc.. It’s actually pathetic since all these WNT players have degrees and some from good universities.

          • guest

            You have a hard time convincing anybody that you know anything about sponsorships. You didn’t even seem to know they existed before I brought them to your attention, and no amount of lying, bullying or blustering on your part is going to make them go away. But I don’t blame you for not mentioning sponsorships, because they destroy your thesis that the WNT are money losers. So now that you’ve lost all your credibility, do yourself a favor and stop coming back here and embarrassing yourself by acting like a raving lunatic. Are you on steroids, by any chance?

          • CED

            OMG..You’re clueless.. @sshat unlike you I have read every USSF financial report, the AGM reports, etc…You’re the clueless person who was shown to be an @ssaclown that didn’t even know the projected 5M USWNT profit was BS from the start b/c it wasn’t the full expenses., it excluded 4+M. The WNT knew people like you were too stupid to look up the full report. Again, you’re too stupid to know how sponsorships work, they sponsor the federation. Please continue your desperate attempt, as you have been shown to be as stupid as the WNT in their logic. They depend on people as dumb as you to buy their lies. Lean math you @sshat..total revenue minus total expenses equals WNT lose money. Are you too stupid to real the financials for WNT Clearly the answer is yes. You can ignore the numbers and continue to show your ignorance and desperation. Maybe you will eventually go away and stop embarrassing yourself, but I doubt it. You’re clearly someone who thinks your ignorance is a badge of honor.

  • guest

    I didn’t find this interview embarrassing at all. I thought they all sounded intelligent, and had valid points to make, except maybe for Press who made the silly “social movement” statement and spent the rest of the interview looking as though her head might explode, but, you have to admit, she looked awfully cute doing it. Even Lloyd had a valid point when she said the women should earn more, because, if they’re paid the same, as they should be, and they win more games, well then, they would be earning more than the men.

    I don’t know how you can deny the facts in this case. they’re doing government work representing our country in international tournaments, putting in the same 90 minutes, so why shouldn’t they be paid the same (per game)? I could see an exception being made for friendlies though, since they’re more like a travelling circus, meant to earn money, than they are official international games. It’s still tough justifying the equal pay though when the men’s game is so much richer than the women’s, but I think it’s something you have to do. Don’t the men’s and women’s USA basketball teams earn the same money at the Olympics?

    • CED

      So much BS you spouted and nonsense that has been destroyed many times by facts. The WNT argument is inherently based on lies, distortions and nonsense. Btw, US basketball pays nothing! Expenses are covered for their food, lodging, families to attend, etc… USA BBall is a NT based on 2 tournies every 4 years, OG and World Championships. The team plays a handful of games to prep before the events and runs like 2 camps that are like 2 weeks that are made no to conflict with their real jobs. playing for their club teams.

      • guest

        “nonsense that has been destroyed many times by facts” One fact you can’t destroy is that they both play the same game for 90 minutes.

        • guest

          they do not play the same game. one plays men’s football and the other plays women’s football. if they played the same game they would be out on the field together. they don’t do equal work. and the uswnt doesn’t want equal pay. they want more than equal pay they want to keep their guaranteed salaries and benefits that the usmnt doesn’t get and they also want the same bonuses as the usmnt. the uswnt needs to drop salaries and benefits and go to eqaul pay to revenue like the usmnt for real equality.

          • guest

            “one plays men’s football and the other plays women’s football” You’re right, they don’t play against each other, for the same reason that featherweight boxers don’t get in the same ring with heavyweights, they’d be pounded into a pulp, and nobody wants to see that. But whether featherweights or heavyweights, it’s still boxing and who’s to say one should be paid more than the other? While it’s true most people would prefer to watch a heavyweight bout, it’s not the government’s job to give preferential treatment to one weight class over another and pay them more. The government has to pay them the same for doing the same work.

        • CED

          Your desperate..go away and stop embarrassing yourself

    • Steglitz49

      The brothers have long supported their sisters in the WNBA so they could well do the same with the OG, ie voluntarily forgo (some of) their pay.

      • CED

        Please be quiet on something you know nothing about. BBall players are paid nothing! Second, NBA players are WNBA are paid based on revenue by their leagues thus why NBA top players make 25+M and WNBA max is just over 120K. WNBA finances are irrelevant to NBA players.

        • Steglitz49

          My understanding was that WNBA players had to have two jobs to make ends meet so they go and worship at Putin’s feet by playing in the teams his cronies run.

          • CED

            As usual you were wrong on your 1st nonsense. The WNBA pay reflects the revenue and attendance and it loses money. WNBA top players play all over the world. Stay out of subjects you know nothing about which is everything.

          • Steglitz49

            Who subsidizes them unless it is the brothers?

            If the WNBA loses money how can they pay any salaries?

          • CED

            Educate yourself. You as usual spouted off about something you as usual know nothing about.

          • Steglitz49

            If you make a loss you go out of business unless you have a sugar-daddy who settles your debts and defrays your shebang. That is why the NWSL has expanded with MLS teams. The brothers in the MLS provide the subsidy.

          • CED

            Please stop embarrassing yourself. You keep lurching to try to cover previous stupid statements. You a moron that thought USA MBall were giving up OG salary for womens USA bball, when neither get paid. Now you have just kept spiraling trying to covert that first ignorance with more ignorance in each post.

          • Steglitz49

            The 8 remaining teams in the ladies Champions League are:
            — Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Lyon, Man City PSG, Wolfsburg, Rosengård and Hjörring.
            There is your answer.

          • CED

            Take your meds your so psychotic and desperate to be relevant you’re making up supposed answers to imaginary questions in your head. Seroquel is your friend.

          • Steglitz49

            There is a risk that WoSo will split into two or, possibly more correctly, that the two WoSos instead of coming together will drift apart. If WoSo develops along parallel tracks then the market will determine its future. That may not be a bad thing except in this case the money comes from the wealthy men’s clubs and it will reinforce the view of WoSo as a well paid hobby for a few lucky ones instead of as a serious sporting endeavor.

            Not long ago, with the money in US pro-WoSo it looked like WoSo would be a US fiefdom, like basket, baseball, hockey and grid-iron. Now it looks like the big men’s money in Europe will rule the roost. If those same men’s teams can make WoSo sing for its supper, maybe one day Arsenal Ladies will play in a full Emirates etc.