US rallies to win after conceding early to Netherlands

The Equalizer Staff September 18, 2016 1,120
Carli Lloyd had a goal and an assist on Sunday in a win over the Netherlands. (Photo Copyright Patricia Giobetti for The Equalizer)

Carli Lloyd had a goal and an assist on Sunday in a win over the Netherlands. (Photo Copyright Patricia Giobetti for The Equalizer)

The U.S. women’s national team defeated the Netherlands on Sunday, 3-1 at the Georgia Dome in Atlanta, despite giving up a goal less than two minutes into the match. Carli Lloyd and Allie Long each scored for the U.S.

Prior to the match, U.S. midfielder Megan Rapinoe knelt during the national anthem for the second time in four days in a U.S. jersey, continuing her protest of social injustices in the United States. U.S. Soccer decided not to punish her for kneeling during the anthem on Thursday against Thailand.

The match didn’t take long to get going. Sanice van de Sanden surprisingly opened the scoring for the visitors in the 2nd minute, beating three U.S. defenders in a foot race on a ball over the top before firing a shot past Alyssa Naeher.

Lloyd equalized in the 35th minute, holding up her run to finish a low cross from Tobin Heath, to send the game to halftime level at 1-1.

[MORE: Scurry, Milbrett recall USWNT memories]

Heath also played a role in the go-ahead goal five minutes after the break. Christen Press got free down the left flank and whipped in a cross, which struck the back of Dutch defender Mandy van de Sanden — who was laying flat inside the six-yard box after getting tangled up with Heath — and the ball went into the net for an own goal. Dutch players argued that Heath pushed van de Sanden, but the goal stood and the Americans had a 2-1 lead.

Long iced the game in the 77th minute. Rapinoe, who entered the match in the 64th minute to a mix of boos and cheers, crossed the ball to the back post and found the head of Lloyd, who nodded it down and across goal toward Long for a diving header.

The U.S. next plays on Oct. 19 and Oct. 23 in a pair of friendlies against Switzerland.

[MORE: Wambach says Solo’s ‘cowards’ comment ‘like playground stuff’]

  • Guest

    For all the hate she gets here, Carli Lloyd is the only person on this current team I trust when things are going south. I don’t think they have someone with that kind of presence and grit to replace her.

    • DNG

      I’d take my chances with at least half a dozen other players. I think Lloyd is very replaceable as far as ability on the football pitch goes. I thought she was dreadful tonight outside of the two goals she contributed to. If I can find that production elsewhere and have a player who is a good football player, I’m taking that every time. The issue seems to be that to the coaching staff Lloyd is undroppable. That makes it impossible to test if someone can come in and replace her.

      • Steglitz49

        It has always been hard to drop players who repeatedly score goals that count and also provide goalgiving passes (assists).

        The task is rather to provide alternative attacking line-ups, which can be discussed.

        • dash4eva

          I know seriously. Lets start dropping players that SCORE GOALS and PROVIDE ASSISTS…

      • Tiggybeaar

        Dreadful outside of the two goals? Hilarious… Your soccer IQ is incredibly low.

    • #1Fan

      Presence and grit don’t excuse constantly giving the ball away. Honestly, the problem with a player like that is a team literally NEVER has good possession when she is involved. She gives it away for fun. Granted she scores, but jeez she shoots ALL the time. like her sister in poor shot selection Morgan. Her head is permanently down, she fails to make obvious passes to players for tap ins. The shot she took from 30 yds or so was embarrassing.

      Ill take my chances without both. Please, lets build a team around soccer players, not personalities.

      • guest

        I have yet to see someone who is a viable replacement.

        • #1Fan

          of course you haven’t because she plays every game. And does the same thing.

      • Steglitz49

        Who would you propose instead of Carli?

        • dw

          Allie Long, of course.

          • erinaaa

            You’re f’in kidding? Seriously?? Dumbest response ever.

  • HOFCToDi

    Match: U.S. Women’s National Team vs. Thailand
    Date: September 15, 2016
    Competition: International Friendly
    Venue: MAPFRE Stadium; Columbus, Ohio

    ussoccer.com/matches/wnt/2016/160915-wnt-v-tha#tab-1

    Attendance: 10,490

    Match: U.S. Women’s National Team vs. Netherlands
    Date: September 18, 2016
    Competition: International Friendly
    Venue: Georgia Dome; Atlanta, Georgia

    ussoccer.com/matches/wnt/2016/160918-wnt-v-ned#tab-1

    Attendance: 15,652

    What a difference a year makes.

    Match: U.S. Women’s National Team vs. Haiti
    Date: Sept. 17, 2015
    Competition: International Friendly – Victory Tour
    Venue: Ford Field; Detroit, Michigan

    ussoccer.com/matches/wnt/2015/150917-wnt-v-hai#tab-1

    Attendance: 34,538

    Match: U.S. Women’s National Team vs. Haiti
    Date: Sept. 20, 2015
    Competition: International Friendly – Victory Tour
    Venue: Legion Field; Birmingham, Ala.

    ussoccer.com/matches/wnt/2015/150920-wnt-v-hai#tab-1

    Attendance: 35,753

    • Steglitz49

      Astute observation but at the same time not altogether surprising. They were only 350 short of their 16,000 target but that is still less than.

      Does a lot of Haitians live in Detroit and Birmingham and do those love WoSo?

      • maddoxhightower

        I dunno. I think the extra 20,000 were more likely fans of Hope Solo and Abby Wambach than USWNT fans.

        • Steglitz49

          It is one possible explanation. HOFCToDi seems to suggest that it is playing like donkeys in the OG that is coming home to roost.

          • maddoxhightower

            Exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned “Hope Solo”.

          • Steglitz49

            Meanwhile Carli is further cementing and reinforcing her reputation for the ultimate clutch player, even more than Alex.

          • maddoxhightower

            Yeah, they still have Alex and Carli. Especially Carli. I’m beginning to be bored with the Pink Headband.

          • Steglitz49

            Who else is there?

            Bring in the new blood now rather than in 2023.

          • HOFCToDi

            Jordan, Savannah
            Lavelle, Rose
            Andrews, Morgan or Shaffer, Alexis
            Pugh, Mallory
            Sanchez, Ashley
            Sullivan, Andi
            Gibbons, Christina
            Mills, Kayla
            Bauer, Maddie
            Freeman, Mandy
            Campbell, Jane

            allwhitekit.com/?p=15061#more-15061

            allwhitekit.com/?p=14973#more-14973

          • Steglitz49

            What about the “American” Flores Twin, Sabrina? Maybe we should call he the “loyal” twin. Anyway, I would call her up just to stop the flow of talent to other the FAs of other Nations.

          • HOFCToDi

            “Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser.”

          • Steglitz49

            What will happen in that Hockey World Cup? All is tosy turvy. Rest of Europe beating the US 3-0 while the Swedes manage 2-1 over the Russians.

          • HOFCToDi

            Which historic American figure was quoted?

          • Steglitz49

            Search me. General Patton?

          • HOFCToDi

            Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! A winner.

            Now check on what drinks Abby and Hope will order.

          • Steglitz49

            That was fluke. Mine is a bitter shandy.

          • HOFCToDi

            Time for Sunil Gulati to lock out the USWNTPA once the CBA expires. Sunil Gulati could call-up a slew of college seniors and college juniors that would be grateful for the opportunity to wear the national team kit for strictly per diem.

          • Gary Diver

            I know you mentioned this before, but what is a bitter shandy?

          • HOFCToDi

            Watching the Sweden women’s national football team score an own goal in the gold medal match at the 2016 Rio Olympics to gift Germany the gold medal.

          • Steglitz49

            The advantage with an own goal is that you can tell yourself but for the own goal we would have tied the match and maybe even won.

          • HOFCToDi

            Tell that to England at the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.

          • Steglitz49

            Half of bitter (beer) and half lemonade. You can use lager instead of bitter and you can use bitter lemon instead of lemonade, whatever floats your boat.

            The drink has many names in different languages. In Germany it is generally known as a Radler (cyclist) except in and around Hamburg where it is called “Alsterwasser” (water from Lake Alster, the greater and lesse Alster being lakes in the cente of Hamburg).

          • Kissy Face

            It’s touching to see you support S49 now.

          • TrollWatch

            They’re united in their hatred of Press, Steglitz because she dropped her shorts, HOFC for an unknown reason.

          • Steglitz49

            Because of the manner in which she left her team.

            Dropping her kit merely reinforces that flaw. It came home to roost in Brasilia. That it did it against sweden might be seen as the long arm of justice catching up and being done.

      • HOFCToDi

        You can’t be serious about the Haitians.

        • Steglitz49

          Granted that the other suggestion made here, that it is explained by the absence of Abby and Hope, seems more viable.

          • HOFCToDi

            Two drunks?

          • Steglitz49

            Bring on the clowns?

          • HOFCToDi

            More like roll out the bar.

            Extra olives with that martini?

          • Steglitz49

            Barrel? I thought it was “Roll out the barrel!” in the song.

    • Correction

      What a difference a gold medal makes.

  • kernel_thai

    Everyone seems to be blaming the NL goal on pace or lack there of but it was all about positioning. For whatever reason Sauerbrunn and Johnston were somehow standing next to each other in the middle of the pitch when the counter started. If the two CBs had been around 15 to 20 yards from each sideline the Broon would have been in position to stop the counter. Instead she found herself in a track meet with Bolt.

    • Ethan

      I thought Sauerbrunn was great from that moment on, but you’re right that she was way too close to Johnston. However, I still think pace is a huge issue for the US’ back line. You can’t always be perfectly positioned, and pace can be helpful in such situations.

      • guester

        m-e-n-g-e-s

        • kernel_thai

          If she doesnt get called in I’ll have to change my assessment of Ellis to dumber that I even thought.

        • Guest

          This needs to happen. Menges has the calm decision making, quick recognition, and backline leadership you want in a CB. And maybe she’s not much of an offensive threat, but she has pace for days.

          • anony

            she’s not nearly as glamorous as JJ… I don’t see fan and sponsor fave JJ getting the boot

          • kernel_thai

            She gets Engen’s job.

          • Guest

            Why do you use sponsorship and popularity as derogatory? Would it be better if Woso players had no fans, sponsorship opportunities or popularity? Is there something wrong with a player doing well of the field?

          • Timber Dave

            The issue is not the sponsorship and popularity themselves, but keeping someone popular on the team while a better but less popular player is left out — that’s the problem. There’s pressure to keep popular players playing when others might be better.

        • Lorehead

          It is strange that Sonnett and Franch are the ones who keep getting called in, when they’re not even the best Americans at their position on their club.

          • DNG

            For what it’s worth I think Sonnett will be in a year or two. Not sure about Franch

          • Lorehead

            I wish Franch the best, but it’s not going to happen unless she gets starts. I think Menges was also better in her rookie year, but Sonnett will only improve.

          • DNG

            Sonnett has the better ball skills. If/when she cleans up the defensive errors, like her marking on Mcdonald’s goal a week ago, I think she will be the best CB in the league. She has also had some issue dealing with high pressure but I think that is all about repetition and experience. Menges had a lot of difficulty last year defending 1v1 in space. She was vulnerable to attackers who could quickly change direction with the ball. I think she improved tremendously over last season and has been very good this year in all facets. Sonnett is probably always going to be better than her on the ball though.

          • Arcie Tillydee

            Menges has indeed improved her ball skills and ability to stay in front of dribbling attackers. Previously, she’s had to rely on that insane pace of hers to recover from getting skinned (and there’s not always time and space for that). Now she doesn’t get skinned in the first place very often. No argument that Sonnet will likely always be better with the ball at her feet (and thus more likely to advance the ball that way…something she’s proven very good at). Best CB tandem in the league…

          • Steglitz49

            Franch’s club is caught between a rock and a hard place. If the NT management keeps calling Franch up while she is not playing for her club, then the club team had better keep winning in the play-offs and, ideally, not let goals in.

          • Lorehead

            It’s useful not to have to pay your backup keeper anything, I suppose, but the Thorns don’t really need two keepers good enough to be starters, US Soccer doesn’t want to pay a team not to play the girls it allocates (She should call up the Mexicans; they’re sure to be sympathetic.) and Franch needs to be a starter to have a chance to make the national team. Presumably Mark Parsons is starting Michelle Betos because he thinks she’s better, and she’s a fan favorite, so they can’t trade her like some Alex Morgan. So there’s a compelling argument for the Thorns to trade Franch next season.

          • Steglitz49

            You can always trade Alex but what trade value does Franch have except being called to the NT?

          • Steglitz49

            If Franch is called in, why not Casey Short as well?

          • TsovLoj

            Sonnett I get because she’s so young and they expect her to develop and get better. But Franch, I mean, I have no idea what they’d thinking there.

          • Guest

            One can easily argue that Franch is better than Betos

      • kernel_thai

        It’s more of a pace issue because neither is fast. If u had one fast CB paired with either it would be better.

        • DNG

          I like what Sonnett and Menges have done with the Thorns. The only thing about Sonnett is that she is still prone to errors as a rookie CB. There are times where she doesn’t track her mark well on crosses into the box.

          • #1Fan

            she is the best soccer player they have in that position but thou need some experience there in my opinion

          • kernel_thai

            Sonnett never should have been put on the NT right out of college. Couple years in the league and she would have been up to speed and ready. Instead she has to learn on the job for some unknown reason.

          • #1Fan

            But Pugh should?

          • kernel_thai

            Playing attacker is usually about individual skill sets more than experience. That’s why I prefer her in a flank role rather than inside. Eventually she might be their #10 but she has to hone her game first.

          • #1Fan

            where do you propose she does that?

          • kernel_thai

            Id guess she plays midfield in college where the level of competition eases her learning curve. Still it sets back her development. She needs to be in the league ASAP

          • #1Fan

            did you watch her today vs Brazil 20s ? I reckon she plays better teams in College that she will at intl level 80 pct of the time. And there is noting stopping her going to camps.

            She certainly did not look too good for the rest today.

          • kernel_thai

            Didnt see Brazil just the first two but if they think she wins WC by herself theyre crazy.

          • #1Fan

            btw, they have no 10 now.

          • DNG

            I hated that hybrid formation they used tonight. If they want to play a 3 back they need to commit to it. My player selection for a 3-5-2 would be different than it would be for a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1.

          • kernel_thai

            I agree. Ellis might have an argument with KO but if ur going to start Engen and she has a bad wheel just go three across the back.

          • DNG

            Klingenberg was more of a wingback today and played a similar role to Heath. It’s why neither she nor Heath were in position to get back when the backline cheaply gave up the ball the number of times they did. In a back three the CBs need to be comfortable on the ball and mobile to stop counter attacks. A back line of Engen, Sauerbrunn, and Johnston is so far away from that. Johnston in the middle of those two is asking for trouble.

          • kernel_thai

            Only because the position is blocked. If Lloyd got her contract terminated for calling The Netherlands cowards they would slot Press, Brian or someone in that role. This is the path they have chosen.

          • #1Fan

            not a 10. She is the most advanced US player most of the time

          • kernel_thai

            Well I agree on that. She plays anywhere from withdraw to the #9. The role Ellis has given her is free tho so she can roam where she wants. Still if Ellis wanted a true #10 I think she’d give it to Lloyd

          • #1Fan

            and do you think this benefits the team? because i certainly do not .

          • Arcie Tillydee

            I’d rather see Pugh on a wing and Lavelle as the #10…but we’ll see what happens. The latter seems to be having a far harder time than expected establishing herself with the team. Not sure what’s up. I don’t buy Ellis’ complaint about her speed of play (I’ve watched her for a while now, and just don’t see that at all). I suspect a bit of a personality conflict (Lavelle is, um…a “character”).

          • kernel_thai

            As Lavelle is both free and u dont have to worry about her forcing a contract, I have to believe her level of play just wasnt up to snuff.

          • Arcie Tillydee

            I just can’t see that. I’ve watched her a lot, as mentioned, and of current USWNT players, the only one with better technical chops is Heath. Maybe Brian and Horan…maybe. She’s not particularly pacey, but she’s not slow.

            I suspect there may be a maturity issue, at least in Ellis’ mind. Lavelle’s Twitter feed is downright bizarre at times, and I think she may be one of those people whose “serious mode” is almost entirely internalized. She’s an odd cookie.

          • DNG

            Making mistakes and learning on the job is how players improve. What’s the harm in developing Sonnett in the two off years for the NT. I think she’s already a better player than Johnston mistakes and all.

          • kernel_thai

            Sonnett is a better passer which got her in the door but I would take Johnston.

          • DNG

            Sonnett reads the game in front of her much better already. Johnston is a reactionary player. It always seems like she is a few steps behind on her mistakes.

            A center back’s abiltiy with the ball is very important for a team that wants to play attacking football. I think everyone has witnessed the ridiculously slow side to side passes by the backline this year. They can’t initiate any attacks without midfielders and wingers dropping back to pick up the ball.

          • DNG

            Agreed. I think she needs lots of minutes against quality competition so she can iron out the mistakes. That takes time and commitment though.

          • JL

            Yeah. She had some bad mistakes in the Thorns’ last game, with the biggest one being that ball that she assumed would go out for a goal kick in the first half, only for McDonald to track it down and get an opportunity for WNY.

          • DNG

            I was thinking more about how she peeled off Mcdonald on Mcdonald’s goal in the second half. She completely misread the flight of the ball.

          • kernel_thai

            Sonnett has good tools but needs time to add experience. That’s what the league is supposed to be for

        • #1Fan

          its simple pressure/ cover. If one presses the ball, the other has to drop off. Positioning is bad. JJ is a ball watcher, always has been

        • Guest

          O hai there, Emily Menges…

  • Miami66

    Netherlands could cause some surprises in EURO 2017.

    By the way, Netherlands women are confirmed to be added to FIFA 17 along with Norway.

    • Steglitz49

      WoSo is becoming tighter generally. Last Thursday Sweden squeezed past Slovakia 2-1 in a Euro-17 qualifier.

    • Ethan

      https://www.easports.com/fifa/news/2016/fifa-17-player-ratings-top-20-women

      EA took club play seriously for Hegerberg. She’s 88 rated in FIFA17. No idea how Rapinoe stayed at a 91 for FIFA17. Johnston, Heath, and Morgan are all at 86 (How is Heath’s weak foot still 3 stars? When has Johnston played right mid?), Sauerbrunn is at 87, and Lloyd is at 92. Any explanations for how Schmidt and McLeod are at 85? Regarding Popp’s rating, I’m guessing she has been good in club play over the last year because I don’t think she was anywhere close to 86 for FIFA16. (I could be wrong though.) Anyone familiar with Rosana’s play over the last year? I remember the name, but her making the top 20 for both years seems strange. Henry at 88!!

      Edit: Wait, it says based on international performances on the website. So, they only rate based on NT play? That would make a number of these ratings even more questionable.

      • MurderOnZidanesFloor

        McLeod is very good but hasn’t played all year, presumably with her and Rapinoe they just rated them pre-injury.

        I really like Sophie Schmidt but have zero defense of that decision. I can’t understand it at all. Probably done just to make Canada better.

        Honestly the ratings were terrible last year too, Vero not in the top 20, Rampone and Wambach were, just lol.

  • BCAD

    My thought’s and prayers go out to KO and her family
    1) This is was a good game where Kling could get evaluated without Krieger and KO on the pitch. I just don’t know why she has been the automatic starter over Krieger and KO, but that is such a broken a record.
    2) I have greatly underestimated O’Hara’s ability to track back when she is caught up field.

    • DNG

      It’s time to replace Klingenberg, Krieger and Engen. I’d drop Johnston from the starting XI as well. KO is still a good player.

      • kernel_thai

        I think it’s more a case of Ellis thinking more about how to win a specific match than how many players she could get into attack. She knew NL had fast counter attack players and could have picked a lineup to key on stopping them.

        • DNG

          I don’t know what Ellis was thinking or trying. I like the 3-5-2 as a formation for the US players. I think 2 forward formations are the best for this team’s personnel. The 3-5-2 gives them that and 3 in central midfield. Since the US has the WBs needed to make the formation work I think they should at least try it. The only real difficulty, and you saw it a little tonight, is that the back 3 need to initiate attacks by themselves and be able to deal with pressure. They weren’t that good at either of those things tonight and it lead to chances going the other way. They also need to be mobile so they can stop quick counters. I’d play Sauerbrunn in the middle and surround her with CBs with those traits I just mentioned. I’d try Menges and Sonnett as a place to start.

      • Gary Diver

        I generally agree but will go further. USWNT needs to clean their defensive house for WC19. Klingenberg, Krieger, Engen, Sauerbrunn should definitely be replaced and probably KO and Johnston.

        • DNG

          If Sauerbrunn is still a good player in 2019 I would still keep her around. CBs can play longer especially when they are players who read the game as well as Sauerbrunn does.

          • Steglitz49

            You could argue that Sauerbrunn is not having a good second half of the year. First Blackstenius goal in Brasilia and now this game.

            Has she lost speed? Is she misjudging her position? Has she lost control over her backline?

          • DNG

            I never really thought she was very fast. I believe Sauerbrunn was the pressuring CB and Johnston what the one who should have been dropping to cover Blackstenius. It’s really bad that one ball beat two players and Sauerbrunn was too slow to pressure. Johnston should have read the situation better and gotten over sooner though.

          • Steglitz49

            Sounds like you favor loss of the control of the backline as the explanation.

          • DNG

            I believe that one pass should never beat both CBs. Both were culpable on that particular play. Sauerbrunn has just shown me more solid play over the course of her career than Johnston has.

          • Steglitz49

            It does not matter if she is past it. Maybe sack both?

          • DNG

            I just might do that but if Sauerbrunn is still a good player in 3 years, I’d take her unless there are a bunch of better CBs available.

          • Steglitz49

            You have 2.5 years to train a new CB or two. Either take it or hope the situation improves spontaneously.

            WoSo is getting tighter. The US won this time. Maybe not next. The second goal was comme ci comme ca. Another ref might not allow it. Life goes on.

          • mockmook

            It will when they are left to defend by themselves — you can’t send both OBs forward against good teams.

          • DNG

            Sauerbrunn was the only defender pressing forward on that goal. It’s difficult to tell from the replay but it looked like Johnston was not alert to the danger at all and Klingenberg just got skinned.

          • Gary Diver

            Sauerbrunn also had a bad game against France in SBC back in March. She is having too many bad games.

          • Guest

            At France SBC match, I only remember Sauerbrunn being beat in a foot race once and that was when she had to cover for Kling who was dancing by the opponents endline. Just because she makes 1 mistake every 8 games or so does not mean she is suddenly horrible.

          • Gary Diver

            The foot race was due to badly turning the ball over to Élodie Thomis and that should have led to a French goal early in the match.

          • Guest

            So 1 mistake against a top 3 team in the world and that means she suddenly has lost her form?

          • Gary Diver

            I know Sauerbrunn has her supporters but a number of people have noted that she has made several mistakes during the past 15 months. My point is that as she heads toward 34 years old the frequency of mistakes will most likely increase. It happens to all athletes – you can never outrun Father Time.

          • Guest

            I don’t know. I think it is no coincidence that FCKC is boasting one of the lowest GA numbers in the league AGAIN despite having an entirely different back line from last year except Sauerbrunn. If she makes a mistake or two, that is why there is another central defender who is supposed to cover.

          • Arcie Tillydee

            Sure, but the Thorns have an even lower GA…and IMO, a better CB pairing than the Nats starting 11.

          • Guest

            And they also have a starting XI full of internationals making the job of the back line much easier. FCKC’s back line consists of a converted midfielder, and a rotating trio of rookie outside backs all picked very late in the draft. Portlands defense is loaded. See the difference?

          • Arcie Tillydee

            Oh, absolutely. The midfield playing in front of that pairing is intimidating (Henry, Long, Heath, Horan/Brynjarsdottir). But I still think the Thorns may well have the best CB pairing in WoSo right now…

          • Steglitz49

            Sweden is not top 3 and neither are the NL.

          • Craigaroo

            John Halloran wrote an article before the Olympics suggesting the way the US was playing had the danger of leaving Sauerbrunn alone “on an island”. http://americansoccernow.com/articles/tactical-analysis-how-the-u-s-women-find-balance

          • Steglitz49

            The article is too sycophantic to be of any value.

            The harsh reality is that the USWNT underestimated those turnips masquerading as swedes and when eventually the penny dropped, the USWNT had nothing to offer. Only that useless ref crew kept them in the game.

          • Gary Diver

            I agree but she is now getting beat too often and in three years she will be slower. Sauerbrunn and Johnston definitely would be too slow for a CB pairing for WC19.

          • Guest

            Besides the 1 goal today, when else did she get beat? She looked really good 1v1

          • mockmook

            But, why not try other players there until the year of the WC — if they aren’t panning out and Sauerbrunn still looks good, bring her back in.

            I’d do that with all the veterans.

          • DNG

            I think CB is one of the positions that needs to be give some very serious thought and attention to over the next year. Sonnett needs more experience but looks a good player. I’m less sure about JJ but I’d give her a chance too. That means the team really needs at least another 2 potential CBs and 3 if they want to play a 3-5-2.

            Once the WC comes around pick the best players. The same should be true for the rest of the positions as well. I would however keep a number of veterans around who help transition younger players and pass along the spirit of the team. Even if the team plays a completely new starting XI in 2019 I think you need those types of veterans in the locker room.

    • Chak Khan

      What happened to my KO?
      I still think she should remain on the team as OB.

      • JL

        She had a death in her family and missed the game.

        • Chak Khan

          Thanks for the info.

        • Lorehead

          I’m sorry to hear that.

  • another guest

    the match report for USA 3-1 win over Netherlands as posted on us soccer site currently includes a headline claiming that Naeher earned a shutout … ????
    “LLOYD RECORDS 94TH INTERNATIONAL GOAL IN 230TH CAP, LONG SCORES THIRD CAREER GOAL AND NAEHER EARNS FIFTH SHUTOUT”

    Not even in the la la land of us soccer is 3-1 a shutout.
    maybe just sloppy headline writing, but article writer also has “… and earn her fifth career shutout.” line in another paragraph.

    Naeher may well have 5 shutouts in her WNT career, but she (nor any other GK) did not earn a shutout in tonight’s 3-1 result.

    • Guest

      Interesting that USWNT has not posted a shutout since France game of OG (unless you don’t count the Thailand goal)

    • another guest

      us soccer site match report has now been corrected to remove the bogus shutout references – however the original report with shutout claim error was picked up an posted on a number of other sports news sites.

  • maddoxhightower

    I feel conflicted about Megan Rapinoe. I respect her right to protest, however, she should keep it in the NWSL. As a member of the USWNT, she must stand, as kneeling causes a distraction to the team, and I will sadly say that any discipline against her is fair.

    • Gary Diver

      This will probably come to a head with USSF and/or Jill Ellis taking some action against Rapinoe and again there will be several hundred comments on this site pro and con. But that will unlikely end the situation. Who knows where this will go.

      Interesting that on USWNT Twitter a few people have made comments that there should actually be some discussion about what Rapinoe is protesting about. More often than not the Rapinoe issue is discussed without ever mentioning the social issues that she is concerned about. (So Rapinoe’s protest gets replaced with a focus on Rapinoe.) Her protest is symbolic. It is logical to ask “symbolic of what?”

      • Steglitz49

        I thought Pinoe has given her reasons.

        • Gary Diver

          Yes, the purpose was to get people talking about her issues which people on this site rarely do.

          • Steglitz49

            Her issues are not the same as the QB who started it.

          • Steg Watch

            They are the same, as she stated. Troll somewhere else.

          • FlyingSquirrel42

            If I were in her place I’d stop doing it after the end of the NWSL season. She’s made her point, and saying she has to keep doing it indefinitely would be like saying that protesters who go home at the end of their protest instead of camping out and getting arrested are all posers and quitters.

      • kernel_thai

        Maybe the USSF plan is to wait until Rapinoe injures her ACL kneeling : )

        • Gary Diver

          That is dark humor, but it did make me laugh.

    • Lorehead

      I never thought I’d say this, but: wouldn’t we rather talk about Christen Press?

      • anon

        well she had the assist on the heath foul… i mean own goal.

      • maddoxhightower

        Yeah, she and Crystal Dunn, being black, have a reason to join Megan during the anthem, but they didn’t. Make of that what you will.

        • Gary Diver

          Not to belabor this, but I have wondered how much support Rapinoe has with her teammates.

          • maddoxhightower

            Interesting question.

          • Lorehead

            Her teammates on the Reign locked arms with her during the anthem on the 11th; I don’t know how much of that was sincere support and how much was a compromise to protest in a more respectful way on the anniversary of 9/11.

          • kernel_thai

            Maybe it was to hold her up in case the urge to kneel struck her.

          • HOFCToDi

            She can crawl on her hands and knees to the MLS owners once the USSF locks them all out. “Equal Play, Equal Pay” went up in smoke.

          • Steglitz49

            Her club team is not MLS affiliated as far as I know.

          • HOFCToDi

            Better find that sugar daddy fast or she can quit soccer altogether and join the Peace Corps.

          • HOFCToDi

            How original copying the Seattle Seahawks from earlier in the day.

          • Lorehead

            The Iceland clap has spread to the fans of the Minnesota Vikings!

          • Steglitz49

            The Volcano. They call it the Volcano.

            Fans of the Swedish WNT were using the Volcano the other night but then Lagerbäck is a Swede and Iceland one of the 5 Nordic countries.

        • Steglitz49

          I would have thought that Christen would passe blanc in the old Big Easy expression.

        • Michelle

          Crystal Dunn just made it back to the NT after being left off for the WWC. She also plays for Bill Lynch in the NWSL and just bought a home in Maryland. I wouldn’t kneel either, under those conditions.

          • Lorehead

            That said, she played last year for Mark Parsons, and one of these days, the Thorns are going to be looking for a forward who’s younger than Christine Sinclair, world-class, allocated, not pregnant and not Alex Morgan.

      • Arcie Tillydee

        Or anything actually soccer-related…

    • Daniel L

      Can someone show me the USSF code of conduct that states that players must stand for the anthem? If that exists, then yes, any discipline will be fair. If not, then there is no ground for discipline.

      • maddoxhightower

        I think the USSF issued that statement saying that all players expect to stand for the national anthem.

        • Deb

          Just bring in a new player that will agree to stand and abide by US soccer. You wanna play for the USWNT? You need to stand? If you sit, you stay on the bench. Protest some other way.

        • mockmook

          And, so far they have done nothing to ensure that the expectation is met.

          They look like fools.

      • tonysocref

        The Code of Conduct is probably in the USWNT Player’s Handbook. The handbook is another one of those documents that either the USWNTPA or USSF want to keep secret unless they have to release it for court.

        • HOFCToDi

          Code of Conduct?

          Drunk and disorderly rules the day.

      • Lorehead

        Here it is. It says, “All players and members of the delegations are expected to show the proper respect for all national anthems.” They did give her a written warning to stand for the anthem and put her hand on her heart.

    • Hwah

      Here’s the thing about Rapinoe’s protest. It’s going to die down, if it hasn’t already. She’s kneeling, essentially (same song/different verse) for the same cause Castro/Smith did in 1968. Racism still exists all these years later, and likely will for a long while. She’s not going to “win” and she likely won’t kneel forever. So, we likely won’t have to think about who she is kneeling for much longer, and all will be well in the USWNT world (hahahahahaha). Happily, during this time, we all thought about why she was supporting Kaepernick, not just thinking about her/the anthem……oh, wait.

      • guest

        the slow sports month of august is over. the nfl and college football seasons have started. and nhl and nba will start in a month. the sports media now has other things to talk about. they might have to up their protests to regain media attention.

      • kernel_thai

        Carlos

    • guest

      if the fan booing for megan rapinoe continues and/or get’s louder and uswnt attendance continues to go down the ussf and uswnt might be forced to act.

      • maddoxhightower

        It will be the booing. The attendance will go down because of the Olympics/Solo fiasco.

  • anon

    they need to play more AWAY friendlies. but, $$$$$$$$$$$$$, I guess.

    • Steglitz49

      They may perhaps do a tour in Europe just before the start of Euro-17 providing practice for the 16 teams in the championship.

      • HOFCToDi

        Sunil Gulati is more worried these days about the USMNT and the “hex”.

      • Michelle

        Oh Lord, I hope you’re right. I’d travel for a game or two against good European teams.

        • Steglitz49

          The FA would probably use Wembley for a match against the USWNT or do a deal with Chelsea to use Stamford Bridge.

  • Deb

    Carly is the new Abby, has to play every minute. Complains all the time, flops on the ground. She loves to pad her stats.

    • newsouth

      This. Yet another 2-3 yrs with no development of true forwards b/c of another stat hungry ball hog

    • So I been told

      CatchingAbby.

  • newsouth

    the NL’s goal just shows life without a speed force member on your back-line. her response time and reflexes faded but i bet she can still run a straight faster than any of the current backs. with all the women playing soccer in america, u are telling me they can’t find a burner for the backline.

    poor recruiting by ussTet, not replacing deficiency and holes in the back-line

    • Arcie Tillydee

      Ellis can solve that problem with a single call-up: Emily Menges.

      • mockmook

        I’m thinking Arcie Tillydee is the “late” David K. Anderson.

  • Paul Klee

    Didn’t see it anywhere else. Allie Long was an out & out beast tonight. If she can continue to play like she did tonight she’s going to be in France. At different times tonight she held down the back line mid field and up front. Superb effort tonight

    • mockmook

      She did have a great game.

      But, I don’t expect her to be playing this way by 2019.

    • JL

      I am not a fan of Long, but I will give her credit for this game. Defensively she was great. She snuffed out a number of attacks early on when the Netherlands were pressing. Didn’t add as much offensively, aside from her goal, but on defense she really stepped up.

      • Chak Khan

        Replace her with KL or JJ in the back line?

    • Ethan

      I remember multiple poor misplaced passes to a Dutch player, but I do also remember multiple solid tackles. Plus, her move that led to Press’ shot off the past was great. So, a mixed bag for me.

      • Paul Klee

        Well not so many back passes last night. The passes to Brian and Heath were fine to Lloyd and Horan not so much. It did get a lot better in the second half after Dunn entered and Press was able to backtrack more.

        • Don’t hate me

          When the Netherlands fell apart? they fell apart the second half they couldn’t keep up with the US. They aren’t fit enough. But Heath was on fire and Press is trying to fight for a call back. That’s why I am surprised they didn’t score more goals

          • Chak Khan

            USWNT is well-known for their 90+ minutes, why NED head coach did not send more subs in is beyond me. It was a good game; I still think US needs to improve its backline.

          • Don’t hate me

            I agree they do need to improve their back line, bring some new faces to the mix, there is a couple players out there that should get a call up

          • Chak Khan

            I wonder what it would be like if the USWNT parked the bus at least once just to see how its opponents would react.

          • Don’t hate me

            I don’t think the opponents will know what to do… lol

          • Chak Khan

            Ah-ha, so there is an expectation that US will always play a “beautiful game” … continues to be take the high road. Well, I’d say let’s surprise everyone just one time. One time is all I am asking.

          • sweetjazz3

            Generally speaking, that defensive style decreases the number of chances overall in the game and harms the better team. So it really wouldn’t make sense for the US to play that way unless they were overmatched, which should not happen anytime soon.

          • mockmook

            I think he wanted to test the starters’ mettle — and, let them know what kind of fitness is required to hang with the USA for 90.

    • Annie

      Are you serious? She is terrible

      • Paul Klee

        Not a fan, I guess.

        I’m starting to get confident in her game. For someone who can look so uncomfortable and on edge, her game brings a calming presence.

  • mockmook

    Because I have a social conscience and I am very brave, I have decided that I must post this comment on every article at the EQ. I am following in the footsteps of that great paragon of civil disobedience, Megan Rapinoe — therefore, no one who values free speech can possibly object to me commenting here, regardless how “off-topic” I am — it is my right and my duty. Now, my comment:

    Abortion is murder. It injures the souls of those who carry it out and those who have the procedure.

    And, the worst part is, this procedure is causing a virtual genocide against the black race — approximately 45% of all black pregnancies are aborted (three times worse than the rate among whites).

    Talk about injustice!!!

    I look forward to the incredibly productive conversation that this will generate.

    I’ll leave you with this beautiful musical celebration of babies by an artist who has unassailable PC credibility, I’m all about inclusion — heck, she has even slept with other women — take it away, Sinead:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkCXQBY4q7w

    • Hwah

      Congratulations on taking a stand. I don’t agree with you, but more power to you for standing up for something you believe in. We all need to be active!

      • Chak Khan

        Don’t you mean kneeling down for something you believe in? 😉

    • Scalia

      Maybe you could do something about the gun murders in USA, seeing you are so concerned about human life. How about background checks at all gun shows?

      • Steglitz49

        Your chosen name is in poor taste. Please use another, even if it is your surname.

    • smallchief

      It is my opinion that many — perhaps most — people who are fervently against abortion also oppose government assistance for health care to ensure better health of mothers and newly born children.

      It seems inconsistent and, frankly, hypocritical to me to oppose abortion — and not care a whit about the health of mothers and children.

      You are of course free to voice your opinions.

    • guest

      Except Sinead O’Connor had an abortion, doesn’t regret it and was/is very open about it.

    • Arcie Tillydee

      Politics?

      Insta-block…bye, Felicia.

      • guest

        if rapinoe can do it so can we.

        • guest

          we are bigger than sports.

        • Arcie Tillydee

          I’d block her, too.

    • kernel_thai

      Hopefully u arent posting while at work.

      • Chak Khan

        His/her account has been hijacked?

    • Lorehead

      Before there was Colin Kaepernick, there was Tim Tebow. Before we talked about Megan Rapinoe kneeling, we talked about Tobin Heath wearing a shirt under her jersey that said, “Jesus Paid it All.”

      My guess for why nobody seems to regard all these gestures the same way is that people who don’t get worked up about any of them don’t argue about politics on the Internet.

  • Guest

    Heath and Lloyd were the best players on the field last night.

    I have to admit I laughed when Pinoe came in and Heath went to LB and Pinoe went to RW. Nothing about that makes sense.

  • Weltmeister

    Steffi Jones is the new Coach of the German nt and she bring many new Player against Russia.
    Dallmann 22 is the new Marozsan abdate, a very Good Player.
    Hendrich, Petermann, Kayikci,Doorsoun, Demann,Klasen new German Nt Generation.

  • NYRick

    1. Actually a real entertaining match. The US was a whisker of going down 2-nil within the first 4 minutes. New coach has the Dutch playing well and with more depth and support from their federation (this is likely due to the country’s soccer prominence) they are going to be a new Euro headache for the US moving forward. These are the types of friendlies that should be scheduled.

    2. Lloyd to 100. The new internal mantra. She’s at 94. Then it will be Lloyd to 150. How does she play 90 in both these matches? It’s beyond absurd. And watch she gives the ball away a lot, is always flopping too and bitching out there. Was this one easy to call? Once you know who left the room, her ego could be properly nourished and now they are stuck with dealing with a 37 year old at the next WC who the team’s universe has to revolve around. Also, Morgan does not look happy playing with her.

    3. Brunn-JJ is an overrated pairing. Brunn is losing a step and at this point would be very surprised to see her at WC19. JJ is just overrated because of her set piece ability in her first 10 starts. She is slow, not a great passer and I think protected greatly by Brunn. Sonnet is a talent who is a natural back there and one who needs the starts and minutes.

    4. Dunn should be converted to LB. She would be absolute shut-down for any speedy players, and you need that because as we found out at the OG, just one long breakdown can get you beat. The US will score, they just shouldn’t concede and Dunn will sure that all up.

    5. With that, Kling should not start. I don’t get it. Never have. I’d take a 35 year old Krieger to OG19 and start her before Kling.

    6. Naeher is tremendous. Love her as the #1. Watch how fast she distributes the ball after a save and is always looking for an outlet. I think Ellis was realizing how good she is which made the Hope exit even easier to make. Within the next year Naeher will easily be considered the best keeper in the world.

    7. Press hit post #83 and counting as a member of the NT. She has to put that in. No need to rush it, that was a gimmee. Aside I think she played well and made a difference out there. But why do they move her to the flank upon Dunn’s entrance. It’s ridiculous. Keep her in the center of the freakin pitch. Also, shockingly Press has become a real good defensive player. No shite here. Watch the game, she continually takes the ball away from opponents, is always positioned well, blocks a lot of outlet passes and has great close down speed and even tracks back as a forward.

    8. Heath is outstanding. I think the best player in the sport right now. Tell me who’s better and I’ll try to listen. I said the sport, not just the US team. She has reached her potential under Ellis and for that Ellis needs credit. For the other US coaches, she was an enigma.

    9. Pinoe, you bore me. And you are boring everyone else. The boos were deserved. You are a silly distraction at this point, and I’m hoping are not invited to the next camp. You are so easily replaceable too.

    10. Long played well. Much respect for her game out there.

    • DNG

      Disagree on Sauerbrunn. Speed for CBs is not essential when they read the game well. Positioning problems definitely led to the first goal. I agree that Sauerbrunn/Johnston is an overrated pair. But that’s mostly because I don’t rate Johnston at all.

      I also disagree that Rapinoe will be easily replaced. I have serious doubts she will have the legs to compete in 2019 but I don’t really see any upcoming player that has the creativity on the ball she does.

      I think Dunn’s ideal position is as a wingback in a 3-5-2 so I think we’re on a similar wavelength with her. Her finishing for the Spirit this year has been extremely poor.

      • #1Fan

        i dont need to post anymore asl ong as DNG is here 🙂

      • #1Fan

        I have been slated for my Dunn to OB, JJ overrated, Pinoe has class (on the ball) stance far too often 🙂 I dont see an obvious Pinoe replacement. I see loads of wide players who can bomb on, but not so sure they can solve organized defences who drop deep. Brunn needs to play with a better defender . period. JJ is a liability on the ball. Just hits long passes out of bounds. She is also overrated defensively in the air.

        • DNG

          There actually was some discussion about where Dunn should play prior to Olympic qualifying this year. The big question in her play at that point was her passing accuracy which was seriously bad and to some extent still is in the attacking third. I thought she also dribbled out of control and could be stopped if there was someone to pick her up after she goes past the first defender due to her heavy touch.

          There has only really been criticism of Johnston following the WC semifinal game. The play that worried many at the time was the foul on Popp following a dumbfounding decision to chest down a ball in her own box.

          I think most people saw the GA total during the WC and thought that the back line was primarily responsible. I thought the real reason for the great defense at the WC was tightning up the space between the midfield and defensive line and admitting that Carli couldn’t be a central midfielder

          • kernel_thai

            So, been reading thru the thread. Ive learned the following so far…Johnston cant defend or pass & is too slow, Sauerbrunn is too slow, Klingenberg is too slow and goes forward too much, Dunn cant pass, Press cant shoot, Lloyd cant keep the ball, Brian is invisible. Based on this I have to upgrade my assessment of Ellis. Ive always thought her a bad coach but that she somehow continues to win with this rabble is amazing. : )

          • DNG

            I’m personally responsible for the Johnston can’t defend/pass, Dunn is an inaccurate passer, Klingenberg is past it and Lloyd is a bad football player with good instincts around goal(still needs to be removed from the team). I claim no responsibility for Brian is invisible or Sauerbrunn is too slow.

            As far as my analysis of the defense goes. I think the back line has gotten too much credit here for what I saw as excellent team defending at the WC. Australia’s speed exploited the back line in the first WC group match and the US probably should have lost that match if not for an outstanding performance from Solo.

          • Ethan

            But I learned from Cat Whitehill that Klingenberg is not a slow player.

      • Arcee Tillydee

        Agree, re: ‘Brunn/JJ, although Rick is right in saying Becky seems a step slower these days. Not a problem, really, if the other half of the CB pairing has pace…but JJ doesn’t. Moreover she often thinks she’s a box-to-box mid and has fallen in love with bombing forward, ending up out of position to deal with a counter. And she’s not fast enough to recover.

        Emily Sonnett has the pace, and her fellow Emily on the Thorns has even more (by a fair margin…Menges is one of the fastest players in the league). Time for a change…

    • Steglitz49

      #1 — but for a howler in defense against Sweden last March, the NL would have been in Rio
      #2 — as long as Carli is the POTY it is hard to cut her but once the gnomes of Zurich have revealed the new POTY, it will be easier — their 10 player shortlist will soon be out
      #3 — yes
      #4 — I though Crystal started her career at LB? Or, am I mixing her up with someone else?
      #5 — Klings headed off the line against Sweden in WC-15 — that was then and this is now
      #6. — Alyssa is a wee tad bit short for a modern goalie — the US must find taller goalies because they can’t all play volleyball and basket
      #7 — the bell has tolled — come next season, winding down the clock will start and phasing out begin
      #8 — the Swedes must have loved how a certain player took the freekicks away from Tobin — yet in open play Tobin was controlled
      #9 — verily
      #10 — too late — WC-19 waits for no lady except Alex

      • obo

        Dunn was left back in her first USWNT starts.

        • Steglitz49

          Thank you.

          I could not understand the word “converted” when it was a question of returning or reassigning her to where she started out.

          At the same time, Crystal was the most dangerous player against Sweden even if it was Alex who scored.

    • JL

      1. With the Dutch men seemingly on a downward trend in the last couple years (I’m still baffled at how they failed to qualify for Euros with the field expanding to 24) and the country hosting the Euros next year, it seems like the women are getting more attention. And that is a good thing IMO.

      4. Dunn was the main LB when Sermanni was in charge, and the results were mixed for me. Ellis seems set on Klingenberg, so we probably won’t see it again. But I wouldn’t mind going back to that for a while, and see how it goes this time.

      5. 100% agree on Klingenberg. She has been subpar at best since the WC. I don’t know if having the rest of the DOD was covering her weaknesses, or if she knows she’s one of Ellis’ favorites so she can play like crap and still start, but she’s easily the weakest link in the US backline.

      6. Naeher was great in this game. Can’t really fault her for the Netherlands goal (that was due more to the backline screwing up), and she had some saves later on that I’m not sure Harris would have made. I think her positioning is better than Harris’, and even if she’s not the long term solution in goal, I’d feel more comfortable in big games with Naeher in goal than I would Harris.

    • Guest

      Could not agree more on #5 and #6

    • Ethan

      4. Dunn got ripped apart by De Vanna in that 2013 friendly match versus Australia. So, I wouldn’t mind the switch, and her pace would be incredibly helpful. However, positioning is still important. If Dunn can show good positioning and is still comfortable with an outside back role after the last couple of years of not playing that position, then I’m okay with moving her there.

      • Guest

        Honestly, you cannot get worse than Kling and KO’s positioning, add Dunn’s speed and there you have it. She was also new to the team in 2013 and if I remember right, that was her first real test. Now that she has been around for a while now and has shown well defensively when playing wide I think she would be much better there now.

    • Captain Crunch

      Agree on 3., 6, 8 & 9.
      For 2. & 5., I’m not reading into minutes because minutes are clearly being monitored with NWSL playoffs in mind. Lloyd is out of playoffs and Kling didn’t start last game and started tonight.
      9. Totally agree. I’m over Pinoe. I don’t see her getting called into camp. The flag drama is one thing but she doesn’t even look good out there.

    • dash4eva

      If you honestly think Lloyd played poorly, you are easily the most idiotic poster on this board. If it wasnt for Lloyd this team likely ties or loses this game. Thats a fact and youre an idiot with an agenda.

  • Scott

    Coaching on this team is awful. Engen playing right back. Horan playing left flank midfielder. All time with poor decisions. Meghan Klingenberg has been awful lately. We need find outside backs that can defend not just bomb forward. Ellis is such a poor coach. We win on individual talent and depth. Christen Press and Tobin Heath are the best technical players on the team.

    • Fudge

      Tobin Heath was playing left back for like 20 minutes. Why?

      • DNG

        Probably because Kelley was home for personal reasons and they only have 3 OBs on the roster

    • DNG

      Brian, Rapinoe, and Horan are of the same technical quality as Press and Heath. Brian probably being the best of the lot. They played out of a 3-5-2 in possession and defended in a 4-4-2.

      • g-g-g-guest

        Second-best, IMO (Heath being the best), but Brian seems too-often to disappear for long periods.

        • Steglitz49

          2017 and 2018 will be crunch years. New blood let in and dead wood chopped out — hopefully.

          • Don’t hate me

            who do you think they will bring in? also who do you think will be left out?

        • #1Fan

          Technical ability is not tricks. Just saying. Heath,Press, Rapinoe, Brian all of similar standard technically. I need to see more Horan

          • Arcie Tillydee

            And Heath is vastly more than tricks…

          • #1Fan

            yes, but i feel that is what folks are using to differentiate. I never said she wasnt

          • Arcie Tillydee

            Only someone who knows jack about the game conflates tricks with technical ability. I suspect we agree on that.

          • #1Fan

            i think i made it pretty clear that I think she is among the better technical players on the team, tricks aside.

          • Arcie Tillydee

            Never said you didn’t. You’ll likely add Horan after watching her more, too. Exceptional technical player, and terrific football mind…

          • #1Fan

            no idea why she is underutilized. Given the career path of WoSo players, the $$ are somewhat viable IF you get allocated. To be allocated she has to do as she is told, but I cannot believe she is content with trying to learn new roles when I think the team is crying out for her as a fwd.

            i think letting her play #9 and creating a target for faster more mobile players to play off would be ideal for her AND the team

          • DNG

            I don’t think Horan has completely adjusted to the speed of play yet. That is one area I’m not sure that D1 was particularly helpful for her development. I think this would be a lot less noticeable if they played her as a center forward. In a recent Thorns match I saw her hold off a defender in the box before making a chest pass to a Heath shot(which went wide… sigh). I want that in the USWNT offense.

          • #1Fan

            as do I

          • Guest

            Disagree completely about her not adjusting to speed of play. I think it is just that she is being horribly misplayed out of position. She was a center forward for her entire career. You take her and you throw her into a DM role (or left midfield role) at the international level and obviously it won’t be a walk in the park. If she was played in her actual position, she would show just fine

          • DNG

            If a player struggle to quickly make decisions it’s a speed of play issue. I mentioned in another comment that I think this is less of an issue at forward precisely because it’s okay if she occasionally loses the ball up the field. I don’t see how you can view her play in central midfield as anything but a speed of play issue though. It’s pretty clear, to me at least, that she isn’t making decisions fast enough in central midfield to be effective against the best teams.

          • Guest

            Agree on the reasoning but don’t see how it applies to Horan. Her speed of play seems to be quicker than the others currently starting in the midfield (Long and Lloyd). And once again, I think her in central midfield maybe has not been stellar yet since she has been a CF up until this point and was thrown into a new central mid role. She also is 22 years old.

          • DNG

            Lloyd? Her speed of play is certainly better than Lloyd’s. I’m ready to give Lloyd the boot form the squad so I don’t think that she’s the best player to make any comparisons to if you’re trying to convince me of something. I disagree on Long. I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Long’s play for the most part. She’s worked very hard on improving her speed of play and I think it shows. No one is ever going to mistake her for Amandine but I think she’s been excellent as a stop gap replacement for Lauren Holiday(27 was too soon and wish her the best). I certainly don’t blame Horan for how teams have used her. She’s not totally in control of that. If it were up to me I’d play her as a forward.

          • Steglitz49

            Her freekick in 2013 was to die for. Against Sweden she was not allowed to take any freekicks.

    • MurderOnZidanesFloor

      Horan on the left was an awful choice, can’t think of a position that suits her less.

      • DNG

        Outside back? Defending 1v1 in space. Yikes. Still like her as a player though and she did kind of tuck inside the entire match. In possession the shape was a 3-5-2 with Heath and Klingenberg as the wingbacks.

  • NYRick

    Have most of you seen the old movie, “Dead Poet’s Society” with Robin Williams as the renegade teacher at a strict, wealthy all-boys HS academy set in the 50s? If you haven’t, I suggest it. It is one of the best movies ever.

    Remember the scene where Williams is teaching the students to be free thinkers and independent, and go against the norm. He takes them outside to the a quad center and tells them all to start walking, not just straight or in a circle, but just do something different. Anything that comes to mind. One student (who was a rebel character to begin with) just stands there and does nothing. Williams confronts him, and the student says, “I’m just exercising from freedom to do nothing.”

    Now that was cool. What Pinoe is doing is not cool.

    • smallchief

      seems to me that you admiration for “free thinkers and independent” validates what Rapinoe is doing.

      • NYRick

        Pinoe is a mindless copycat. My point illustrated what a free thinker really is and how to properly make a point.

        • FlyingSquirrel42

          What if Pinoe stood on a desk during the anthem and addressed Sauerbrunn as “O Captain My Captain”?

          • NYRick

            There you go. I’m down with that.

            Only problem is that it would surely infuriate Lloyd who considers herself the real captain.

  • anon

    good to know Press still can’t put the ball on frame. She was a workhorse though, will give her that.

    • DNG

      It’s funny that one year ago at the World Cup, people were complaining about her for the exact opposite reason. Clinical finisher with a below average work rate and poor defensively is what I kept reading.

      • AlexH

        Press was never a clinical finisher for the WNT.

        • NYRick

          35 in 75. Not exactly chop liver. She rarely starts, and even when she does gets only max 20 minutes as a true center forward. Do you realize how many missed opportunities that Carli and Alex and even Dunn get too? It’s just being out there a full 90 pads the stats.

          • Don’t hate me

            I think Jill is playing Lloyd to much, she should be subbed out sometime

          • DNG

            Or just maybe not played at all.

          • Don’t hate me

            I agree like these past two friendlies she didn’t have to play Thursday and yesterday she should have been subbed off at half not Morgan.

          • guest

            yeah, because she never scores or assists right! better put Press out there who only does well when the team is already up.

          • DNG

            I’d play half a dozen players at forwards over Lloyd. I think she’s a turnover prone volume shooter that plays forward in a very good team against marginal competition which inflates her statistics and ego.

          • AlexH

            She leads the team in both scoring and assists. Everybody else on the team plays the same competition and the same meager competition yet they don’t put up anywhere near the numbers. If there is a group that inflates their stats on the backs of the rest of the team and as a function of poor opposition it is the back line.

          • DNG

            She is playing as a second forward in 2 forward formation for a team that has the ball all the time. The only player who should be rivaling her numbers is Morgan and I think you’ve already mentioned that Morgan has not been clinical in front of goal this year.

          • Guest

            Lloyd is literally the only one I trust when the chips are down. Morgan too. In her entire career, Press has never been able to come through when it matters most. That’s not to say she shouldn’t be used more but to kick Lloyd to the curb now is a mistake.

          • DNG

            I see kicking Lloyd to the curb as the first step to moving forward.

          • annie

            People here have a hate-on for lloyd like they have a hard-on for Press. Just ignore Lloyd’s results and her game changer abilities throughout her entire career…

          • DNG

            Thanks for highlighting the fact that most people believe results in big games is the measure of whether a soccer player is any good or not. Question for everyone. If Lloyd is so good, is she good enough to make it into the Portland Thorns starting XI? I think she’s a downgrade to every one of their central players.

          • anon

            you want to play pretty ball and lose? ok. become a france NT fan.

          • DNG

            Who said anything about playing pretty ball and losing. Just an FYI, France does not solely play ‘pretty ball’, they have tons of pace in their squad and can play very direct. If that team had a decent center forward I think they would easily be the best team in the world right now. You are missing my point in any case. I think Lloyd’s production is replaceable, you do not. What you have on your side right now is that Lloyd has been undroppable to this coaching staff so we hardly ever get to see the team play without her. The team scored 5 goals in the two matches against Japan which was the last time Lloyd didn’t start and play 90 minutes. The tie was due to poor defense which Lloyd affects minimally now given her position.

          • JL

            Parsons would start her in a heartbeat over Horan and Long.

          • DNG

            He wouldn’t start her over either and the Thorns would never trade for her.

          • JL

            Of course Portland won’t trade for her. They’ve got enough star power as it is. But you ask any coach in the league if they had the opportunity to choose between playing Lloyd or playing Long/Horan, I can guarantee you every single one of them would pick Lloyd.

          • DNG

            I don’t agree, the Thorns traded away Morgan this year to the benefit of their team. Lloyd would not be able to get away with her positional irresponsibility playing for Portland. Lloyd simply can’t play Long’s role in the Thorns, she doesn’t have the skill so I think you’re completely wrong there. I don’t know what other coaches would do but that wasn’t really my question anyway. I stand firm in my belief that Lloyd is a clear step down from what the Thorns already have.

          • JL

            I’m just saying that if you told Parsons that his team had the chance to get Lloyd, but they’d have to give up Long in the process, he’d take that deal without a second thought.

          • DNG

            I think you are projecting your own value of Lloyd and framing it with “Parsons would do this”. Neither of us knows what Parsons would do and that wasn’t the question I asked anyway. I think you’d be crazy to swap Long or Horan for Lloyd’s ‘production’. That change would completely change the dynamic of the team and not for the better.

          • JL

            You are projecting your non valuing of Lloyd by saying a coach would rather have two far less accomplished players than one who actually has done well this year despite missing a large chunk of it.

          • DNG

            Not at all I am saying that I don’t think Lloyd is good enough to be in the Thorns first team. I don’t much care what Parsons or GW think about Lloyd. You were the one who brought up the coaches. Far less accomplished? what does that even mean? Is the goal to field the best team or the one with the most accomplishments. Remind me again how impactful her performance was in the recent Thorns-Dash match up. If I remember correctly she made zero impact as her team got run over.

          • Arcie Tillydee

            I doubt that very, very much. But he might play her at forward, clear up front. Or would have before Nadim rediscovered her shooting boots…

          • Don’t hate me

            no one wants her, she doesn’t care about club look what happen in Houston, she only cares about herself

          • Don’t hate me

            you know now that I think about it.. when Press played and they played good teams she doesn’t produce.
            Netherland- 0
            France – 0
            Germany-0
            Japan-0
            England-0

            but when they play crappy teams she can score
            Costa Rica
            Colombia

          • Annie

            she doesn’t even get assists. She’s not a bad player but to think she is the magic this team needs is just inconsistent with reality. She has been given plenty of chances.

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press has never scored a goal against the following international opponents:

            fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/women/rank=554/index.html

            GER
            ENG
            SWE
            JPN
            BRA
            PRK
            CAN
            NOR

          • Don’t hate me

            That’s the truth… she does better in club than in NT.. She can really only score on teams that have no defense and are ranked 30 or higher

          • HOFCToDi

            The only time Christen Press scored a goal against France was when both starting centerbacks, Laura Georges and Wendie Renard, were out of the lineup.

          • Don’t hate me

            She could possibly score a goal when the defense falls apart, and people keep saying she should start instead of Morgan. And all I do is laugh, Morgan earned her spot to start games, she can score with the best of them.. I think Morgan is better than Press, she can wear down the defense and get behind them and score

          • HOFCToDi

            The “Press Gang Troll Brigade” has spewed the same garbage for nearly four years. The statute of limitations has run out for excuses.

          • Don’t hate me

            I totally agree… it’s getting way out of hand.. but then I just sit back and laugh at them

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press epitomizes the phrase “international fraud”.

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press will score multiple goals against CRC without Shirley Cruz and Raquel Rodriguez.

          • Don’t hate me

            Yeah just like she did when they were trying to qualify for the Olympics, she only scored once

          • Don’t hate me

            Agree only time she can score lol

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press did not even score a goal against COL in the group stage of the 2016 Summer Olympic Games.

            rio2016.com/en/football-womens-first-round-group-g-fb-5

          • Don’t hate me

            Did she even score a goal in the olympics? I remember when they were trying to qualify when they played CR and the goal she did score, if you look at it Tobin is clearly passing the ball to Alex but she stole the ball, that’s why everyone was saying it was a good goal.. but that was my opinion that she stole the ball so Alex wouldn’t get the hat trick

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals – 0
            Assists – 0
            Shots Attempted – 6
            Shots on Goal – 1
            Penalty Kicks Attempted – 1
            Penalty Kicks Converted – 0

          • Don’t hate me

            How do get that info? I would like to look at that info. Is there a website or do you just know it? Lol

          • HOFCToDi

            Click stats, individual

            rio2016.com/en/football-womens-first-round-group-g

            rio2016.com/en/football-womens-first-round-group-g-fb-3

            rio2016.com/en/football-womens-first-round-group-g-fb-5

            rio2016.com/en/football-womens-quarterfinal-fb-3

          • Don’t hate me

            Awesome thank you!!!

          • NYRick

            Come on, seriously? She doesn’t leave the pitch for a minute? How can you possibly play her against that HS team last week for that long? Simply to pad her stats. It’s ridiculous. She is on a glory quest and I guess the OG flameout didn’t matter to this program. They will continue to appease her.

          • AlexH

            I have no idea why Jill keeps her on the field instead of trying out new players. But Lloyd delivers so she has earned her minutes, I guess.

          • #1Fan

            she does NOT deliver. Scoring goals THAT OTHERS WOULD SCORE GIVE THE SAME OPPORTUNITY is NOT delivering. I believe i could put a U17 player out there and vs many of the teams they would score also. They would however NOT be allowed to get away with the ill discipline and selfish play Lloyd exhibits almost every time she gets out there. Wambach could still be scoring vs many of these teams, should she be out there as well ?

          • AlexH

            Scoring goals “that others would score given the same opportunity” is still delivering. Saying that other people would score just as much if given the same chance is pure speculation.

          • DNG

            So is saying that others won’t score when they aren’t given the chance. Which is what some people are claiming. Lloyd didn’t play a minute of the Japan friendlies and guess what, the US still scored and created chances.

          • Ethan

            And I remember a lot of comments applauding or at least in favor of the Heath-Press-Morgan-Dunn combinations.

          • Don’t hate me

            The team doesn’t need Lloyd to start ever game they can score goals like when they played Japan,

          • Ethan

            Would other players have taken two free kicks off of Heath in a critical quarterfinal match? I will be lenient on the first one, but after what happened with the first free kick, to take the second one without an even remotely better outcome was ridiculous.

          • HOFCToDi

            Nobody gives a damn who you would play.

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press only scores against tomato cans or during garbage time.

          • HOFCToDi

            Hey Dumbass,

            Press scores the vast majority of goals in meaningless international women’s friendlies versus tomato cans.

          • tonysocref

            Never ceases to amaze me in how you manipulate the actual facts in showing your disdain/hatred for Press.
            1) Only 7 of the 8 teams you list are currently ranked in the top 10.
            2) You fail to mention the fact that 3 of her current 35 goals have been scored against a current top 10 ranked team. She has scored 1 against France and 2 against Australia. The 2 top 10 teams you omitted from your list.

          • HOFCToDi

            A whopping three! Oh boy!

            The only time Christen Press scored a goal against France was when both starting centerbacks, Laura Georges and Wendie Renard, were out of the lineup.

          • HOFCToDi

            A whopping three! Oh boy!

            FIFA Top Ten Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored
            Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
            Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3
            Johnston (DOB 06 Apr 1992) – 2
            Dunn (DOB 03 Jul 1992) – 2
            Horan (DOB 26 May 1994) – 2
            Mewis (DOB 09 Oct 1992) – 1

          • HOFCToDi

            The “Press Gang Troll Brigade” have failed miserably at the laughable propaganda to discredit/vilify any player on the USWNT roster at the expense of Christen Press since the conclusion of the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            CP12 has been overrun by the current youth movement:

            USWNT
            2016 Calendar Year
            Games Started (Forwards/Midfielders)
            Lloyd -18
            Morgan – 16
            Heath – 16
            Brian – 14
            Dunn – 13
            Horan – 13
            Pugh – 12
            Long – 10
            Press – 7
            Mewis – 5

            ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/stats

            Nevermind Christen Press started eleven of the first twelve matches for the USWNT in calendar year 2015.

            ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/lineups/2015-lineups

          • HOFCToDi

            The “Press Gang Troll Brigade” have failed miserably at the laughable propaganda to discredit/vilify any player on the USWNT roster at the expense of Christen Press since the conclusion of the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            Not once has Christen Press been named Budweiser Woman of the Match in calendar year 2016.

            ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/results-statistics

            ROFLMAO!

          • HOFCToDi

            The “Press Gang Troll Brigade” have failed miserably at the laughable propaganda to discredit/vilify any player on the USWNT roster at the expense of Christen Press since the conclusion of the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            Christen Press
            USWNT
            Tournament Record

            Algarve Cup
            2013 – 1 goal(s), 0 assist(s)
            2014 – 1 goal(s), 0 assist(s)
            2015 – 1 goal(s), 1 assist(s)

            SheBelieves Cup
            2016 – 0 goal(s), 0 assist(s)

            CONCACAF Women’s Championship
            2014 – 2 goal(s), 1 assist(s)

            CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying
            2016 – 2 goal(s), 1 assist(s)

            FIFA Women’s World Cup
            2015 – 1 goal(s), 0 assist(s)

            Summer Olympic Games
            2016 – 0 goal(s), 0 assist(s)

            Christen Press has scored multiple goals in a tournament when the opponent was either HAI (FIFA Rank #60) or PUR (FIFA Rank #108). Neither opponent reached the knockout stage of the respective CONCACAF Women’s tournament.

            ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/tournaments/2014-concacaf-womens-championship/141020-wntvhai#tab-1

            fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/women/rank=547/concacaf.html

            ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/tournaments/2016-concacaf-womens-olympic-qualifying-championship/160215-wnt-v-pur#tab-1

            fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/women/rank=552/concacaf.html

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press has firmly cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

            garbage time
            prima donna
            selfish shot hog
            tomato cans

            For USWNT posterity:

            30 June 2015 vs GER, 05 July 2015 vs JPN
            drawformation.com/post/56bc60cb89182/56bc60cb89182.png

            Nevermind Christen Press started eleven of the first twelve matches for the USWNT in calendar year 2015.

            ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/lineups/2015-lineups

            ROFLMAO!

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press has firmly cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

            garbage time
            prima donna
            selfish shot hog
            tomato cans

            2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
            Carli Lloyd #10 of the US poses after winning the Silver Boot
            img.fifa.com/mm/photo/tournament/competition/02/66/13/11/2661311_big-lnd.jpg

            By the way, that’s not Christen Press.

            ROFLMAO!

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press has firmly cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

            garbage time
            prima donna
            selfish shot hog
            tomato cans

            2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
            Carli Lloyd #10 of the US poses after winning the Golden Ball
            img.fifa.com/mm/photo/tournament/competition/02/66/13/04/2661304_big-lnd.jpg

            By the way, that’s not Christen Press.

            ROFLMAO!

          • Steglitz49

            Should one really count France given their miserable record in 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015 and 2016?

      • HOFCToDi

        Bull crap.

        2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
        Christen Press
        Shots Attempted – 7
        Shots on Goal – 2

    • AlexH

      What are you talking about? She LITERALLY put the ball on frame @#$!

  • BRASILEIRO

    This team easily lose to Brazil

    • Steglitz49

      Sweden easily lost to Brazil. Then sweden prevailed. You can’t be sure of anything these days, except death and taxes as always.

      • BRASILEIRO

        Against strong teams Sweden is cowardly. But Brazil certainly learned the lesson

        • Steglitz49

          Are you a goalkeeper by any chance?

          • BRASILEIRO

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66sj5kCZUOM This HERE IS A TYPE FELLOWSHIP FOR MEN

          • BRASILEIRO

            Swedish players can still play. Wambach destroyed the career of a Brazilian player and was never punished for it

          • BRASILEIRO
          • BRASILEIRO

            Daniela Alves “It was evil. I had already made two goals, was very well in the game and she thought that somehow had to get me out of the game”

    • Guest

      When is the last time USWNT lost to Brazil? 2008?

      • JL

        2014 was the last time the US lost to Brazil.

        • Guest

          Right

      • BRASILEIRO

        who lives the past is the museum

  • Jim

    Horan really has no starting position on this team. Seems like Ellis is just playing her because she came back US. Same on her allocation. For her come back she had be allocated. She is a center forward. Being tried in various midfield positions. Not standing out in any. Flank midfielder she is not. Not better than Long or Brian in center midfield. Again she got allocation and is getting starts on NT because she came back.

    • Tony

      I think she started there because Press is not good at wide, Pugh wasn’t there, Dunn is recovering from injury, not sure why Rapinoe didn’t start? Kneel effect? I don’t know. I do agree with you on her getting starts because of quitting PSG and choosing NWSL. I think Lindsay is good player but not better than other forwards and midfielders. Midfielders that have always been midfielders.

    • Don’t hate me

      Do you think Ellis just started her because she had no one else to play?

    • Arcie Tillydee

      Horan would indeed be better utilized up top, in something of a target striker role (only one with excellent technical skills). She has the strength and aggression to be a good hold-up player, and the quick thinking to make the right decisions in the final third. He’s being played out of position because the team has a glut of forwards (similar situation on the Thorns…).

      • kernel_thai

        When Horan was brought up in October they used her up top. She was too slow for a team that depends on transition. Now it could be she wasnt completely fit at the time but that begs the question of why bring in an unfit player at all?

        • DNG

          It’s time to move away from a team and lineup that relies on transition and pressing for all of their goals. That tactic is vulnerable against teams like Sweden that match up physically and chose to sit back and defend.

          • kernel_thai

            Then the focus needs to turn to players who can hold the ball against pressure

          • Arcie Tillydee

            Agreed…which is something Horan and Long, for example, are good at.

          • kernel_thai

            To be honest I prefer a team that can do both. They need to be able to transition when available or possess the ball and run an offense when that it what the defense gives them

          • Arcie Tillydee

            Well, of course. It’s all situational.

          • DNG

            I agree but here’s another question for you. What exactly is Lloyd currently providing in counter attacking opportunities? I think you can still counter attack while playing a CF like Horan.

          • kernel_thai

            Lloyd is currently the other attacking mid. Now if u want to argue Horan should be higher than Lloyd in the attacking scheme that’s a different matter. Personally I would play Press in Lloyd’s #10 role and let Lloyd and Horan duke it out for the #8 but what do I know?

          • DNG

            I’d argue that Lloyd adds nothing to the counter-attack and was often left behind in the Olympics because she is SLOW. Lloyd cannot play the 8 that was a disaster at the WC a year ago.

          • kernel_thai

            i think that is where Lloyd is most effective not counting stand 1 yard from goal. In the open field she does ok. She isnt pacey but certainly good speed still. Where Lloyd becomes a burden is when the attack is congested either by pressure or against a set defense. then her passing doesnt match her ego and she gets stripped a lot.

          • DNG

            I disagree. Lloyd is a trailer at best in any counter-attack. If she has the ball in the early transition phase she almost never releases it fast enough and to the correct player. She single handedly killed at least 5 counters in the Thorns-Dash match.

        • Arcie Tillydee

          Yeah, putting Lindsey up there would also require a shift in tactical priorities. She’s picked up a bit of speed since changing leagues, but pace isn’t really a weapon in her arsenal. But the team needs to stop relying of transition speed anyway. We didn’t use to have the technical ability to play any other way…but that’s no longer the case.

          • kernel_thai

            In the system they now play, I think attacking mid suits her. Now u can complain about how they use her there but from that position she should always be in a position to hold the ball and get into the attack.

          • DNG

            Horan is the typical mold of a striker. Good in the air, control direct balls into her chest, can hold up play, drop into the hole and distribute out wide. This team doesn’t need a true 10 in my opinion if they play two strikers who can drop into the hole.

          • kernel_thai

            I like her in the #8 because she can still do the things u mention but doesnt clog up fast break opportunities. Perhaps down the road surrounded by the right type of players she might move up to target but I dont like her there with this group of players.

          • DNG

            She doesn’t play fast enough right now to play the 8 and I don’t see how she clogs up fast break opportunities. If the first ball is played into Horan the other counter-attacking players run off her.

          • kernel_thai

            Well watch her in the two friendlies against Brazil. And if she doesnt have #8 speed not sure why ud want her up front. Personally I think she can get box to box. If u watch Orlando at all ud can see how playing Hagen at target slows their transition.

          • Steglitz49

            What is #8 when it is at home?

          • DNG

            By she doesn’t play fast enough I mean that she sometimes takes too long to make decisions. When a forward loses the ball occasionally because of that it’s not a problem as long as they are still producing. When a CM turns the ball over because they are slow in their decision making it is a real problem.

          • Steglitz49

            If you want a CM, pick a CM from the college seniors or juniors. Don’t mess around converting failures.

          • kernel_thai

            I misread. This is why I like her or Lloyd better as a pair of high attacking mids than in a pair of DMs. If they make a mistake they arent usually standing in front of a CB. It’s a completely different argument as to how Horan somehow made the roster of a world champion team in a position she has little or no experience. That is a puzzle for the ages.

    • NYRick

      Agree that Horan is being badly misused. And there is a degree of truth for sure about her coming back to the US under the pretense that some type of playing/starting arrangement on the NT would be made for her. She is lost in the midfield. Much like many players playing out of position in this program for years. Nothing new. Here’s my solution for 2017 and forward:

      GK: Naeher (she’s a keeper, no pun intended).

      Outside backs: Menges (bring her up and develop her into a starter there). She’s fast as hell and solid all around. On the other side convert Dunn back into the other starter. You have time the next year or so. With Menges and Dunn, no team can counter with speed.

      Center backs: Brunn and start Sonnett. I like that pairing potentially

      Center midfield: Heath (let her run the show, she can certainly do that from the center as well) and Brian (best passer on the team) to help orchestrate.

      Flank mids: Pugh on the right, Morgan (move her there) on the left. She will flourish from this spot and get just as many opportunities.

      Forwards: Press and Horan. I’d love to see this. Both technical. Both can finish and Press is even starting to hold the ball up well and play with her back to goal too. Both have extremely high soccer IQs.

      You need to wave bye-bye to both Lloyd and Pinoe and get them out of the picture. But I’d go to war with the above lineup. Against anyone.

      • AlexH

        National team coaches always have to make the choice between putting the best players at each position on the field or putting the best players regardless of position on the field. However the degree to which this happens on the WNT is astonishing. It seems that they are only interested in attacking players which they then look to convert.

        • NYRick

          Lloyd is a big problem to change. As was obviously Abby before her. They need a Nick Saban attitude to this team. Constantly evolve. Every 4 years, huge stars and massive talent enter the program. The seniors graduate. Now with the NT, I’m not advocating that top players get phased out at 26/27, but most certainly they should be in their early 30s and certainly by 34/35. This program can do that and not miss a beat. They have a tremendous advantage with their talent pool. And that will never change.

          • AlexH

            Ellis needs to look for a replacement for Lloyd because Lloyd has reached the age where skills can decline precipitously. That, by the way, can be said about lots of players on the team. Don’t blame Lloyd though. Players want to play and she is playing well.

          • NYRick

            Heard an interview on Sirius radio with HAO. She basically said she would play forever on the NT if they let her. Look I don’t blame these players playing as long as they could and they can definitely still do that with their club teams, but it’s a huge problem since the USSF finances their decent salaries (which they lose when they are not allocated). Hence, stay on the NT and play forever and make a nice living and get sponsors along the way till age 35+. It’s smart. You can even take a year or two off to have a family and are protected with your spot.

            Problem is that we have to end the HAOs, the Abbys, the Carlis (this will be the worse one), the Rampones, the Lillys (she really started this) etc. I even want Alex gone by her early 30s, but I think she will find it impossible to leave.

          • AlexH

            That is a problem for sure. A few weeks ago I posted that the team should just cut everybody that will be over 30 when the next cup rolls around and dedicate 2017 to developing talent and then let 2018 be the year of open competition for spots.

          • Jamie

            yeah, but you want Christen Press to be playing until 39 right… eyeroll

          • Don’t hate me

            IMO Press prob won’t play pass 31

          • NYRick

            No, I want her out the door at 30 too, which is basically right to WC19. I personally don’t think she will be on the team at that time anyway.

          • ABCDE

            Look, I don’t think Lloyd should be starting in 2019. I think she should be phased into more of a substitute or late game changer role if her abilities remain.

      • Terry Lash

        Ellis will not go for this lineup, unfortunately. Improvement with the NT will only come with Ellis’s departure, but Gulati will not move her out until after the next WWC. I find this depressing to the point of losing interest in the WNT. Rapinoe’s antics are accelerating my disinterest in the team.

        • NYRick

          Regarding Pinoe’s antics last night, I gotta say it really bothered me. I get the first amendment rights, the peaceful protest blah blah blah, but it just is so weak on the surface.

          I mean there was something to seeing the contrast to every US player (even the subs) holding their hands to their heart and mouthing the words to the anthem, while the prima donna just knelt. If I was her teammate, I would get in her face privately about it. I’m not advocating a white Nazi youth state where we all have to stay in line, but there is something about that flag which shouldn’t be protested. I’m sure some on this very board probably enjoy seeing the lunatics burn it in protest too.

          When you play for a US national team, you have to respect it and honor it. You are not playing for yourself at that point. If you feel differently, just refuse to play for the NT. There are thousands who would go in your place. And…the USSF most certainly need to suspend her or just as quietly not invite her to the next camp for the October matches. She needs to be sent a message in return that we are fine with her first amendment rights, but with that comes consequences. Right now, she feels she has won and there are no consequences. Sit her out a camp and let’s see her viewpoint. I’m sure she will be armed with ACLU lawyers to the teeth but it is a battle she will easily lose. Plus, she has lost in the court of public opinion too. I know she is a hero to some on here for this, but the majority of people I think are really disgusted by all of this.

          • Terry Lash

            The most puzzling and discouraging aspect of Rapinoe kneeling in the last two games is the ineffectiveness of Ellis and US Soccer. Before the Thailand game Ellis said her expectation was that players, most pointedly Rapinoe, would not kneel. Yet Ellis put her in the game to start the 2nd half. Then US Soccer issued a statement after the game that they expected players to stand during the national anthem. But again after Rapinoe kneeled in the Netherlands’ game, she was used as a 2nd half substitute. In other words, the coach and the employer demonstrate they are impotent. How telling.

            Note that as an employer there is no question about US Soccer’s legal right to punish Rapinoe for her actions. It is strictly US Soccer’s choice not to enforce its policy. Down the road they may regret their inaction.

          • NYRick

            And it’s not like they needed her to win. These are friendlies. One was against a good HS team. Against the Netherlands, they were ahead when she entered.

            It’s a terrible message all around to even play her in these two matches. I mean aren’t these players supposed “role models?” Wasn’t that preached ad nauseam following the WC win what great models they were to young girls in the US? So what is the message now? Disrespect your flag and country to protest anything you want, even in a US uniform while playing for the national team. The protest can be about anything really. Don’t worry, you can be vague too. Did you also hear that Pinoe is not doing interviews on this now as well for the reporters. What a joke. Just drop her already. She got two cycles in the program. Time to move on.

          • AlexH

            Damn! I thought that we could get through this story without mentioning “She who shall not be named.” Oh well, Terry is absolutely right that Jill and the Fed look like idiots if they don’t punish Rapinoe after multiple statements against her behavior. It is pretty much true for any sport at any level that if you publicly show up your coach you get benched at the very least.

          • NYRick

            Unfortunately it’s a talking point during the telecasts, not just here. The subtle smart thing for the USSF to do is not invite her to the October camp. See her reaction and go from there. That would be the USSF’s form of a “peaceful protest.”

          • kernel_thai

            Let me ask u this…when Solo’s appeal comes up how does it look that they r turning a blind eye to something they have publicly admitted they consider a conduct violation? To me it looks like some players r being treated differently than others.

          • Terry Lash

            Yes, definitely. I do not say Solo is not a difficult person, who has sometimes misbehaved. But I do think her recent punishment was disproportionate and not consistent with the way the way both Rapinoe and now Wambach have been treated.

          • guest

            i can only hope this is a normal employment situation where they give a verbal warning at first, then some written warnings, then after the third written warning comes the suspension. hopefully, ussf is documenting everything. and then after the suspension if rapinoe goes off on one of her homophobic conspiracy rants again they can then get rid of her.

          • Lorehead

            Well, she got her written warning before the 15th, and disregarding one of those from your boss is rarely a good career move.

      • mockmook

        “With Menges and Dunn, no team can counter with speed.”

        Wrong. But, many here are making the same mistake.

        The OBs will not save the team in case of quick counters up the middle (not unless they stay home). Change the tactics for the defensive line so the CBs aren’t left completely exposed. And, try some new CBs.

        • DNG

          Menges is a CB anyway but I would want a CDM providing some protection to my CBs in a 3-5-2. Fishlock or Henry would be ideal templates to strive for. I know Fishlock is a B2B as oppose to a DM but she could be good DM with her skill set.

    • AlexH

      I would love to see Horan and Dunn up top. Alex Morgan has become very inconsistent in front of goal and Press can’t seem to find the back of the net for the WNT. It’s time to try out somebody new. At the very least it will light a fire under the butts of the incumbents.

      • Don’t hate me

        Horan did play up top in PSG but then when she came to NWSL and NT they moved her to Mid field for some reason..

        • guest

          that some reason is morgan and lloyd play up top permanently for the uswnt. only room is in the midfield.

          • Don’t hate me

            But I think Lloyd should play mid and let Horan and Morgan play up top.. that would be good right

      • DNG

        You think Morgan has been inconsistent in front of goal and want to replace her with Dunn? Dunn’s finishing has been anything but consistent in the NWSL this year. Many of those games I find far more competitive and challenging for player than the friendlies the USWNT schedules.

        • AlexH

          She’s done pretty well in front of goal for the national team though. I very much like the fact that Dunn has no fear when it comes to shooting whereas the others seem to hesitate almost as if they are worried that the coach will disapprove if they miss.

          • NYRick

            I like Dunn a lot as a player. But she doesn’t look up well when she is running forward with the ball. She gets tunnel vision when racing towards the goal and with better competition (like even the Dutch) eventually players converge on you and you lose the ball. She needs to get the ball off her foot to an open player when running forward.

            Other than that, she is an absolute bulldog and fearless inside and around the 18. Many of her goals are the result of chaos, which she takes advantage of out of pure athleticism. She is a great athlete more than she is a great soccer player.

          • AlexH

            Well tunnel vision is far less of a liability for a forward than a midfielder. I have no problem with a greedy athletic player causing mayhem in the penalty area. Lots of great strikers are poachers and garbage collectors.

          • #1Fan

            like Lloyd and Morgan do? Has not stopped them amassing caps .

          • #1Fan

            Herein lies the massive flaw in US soccer thinking. its all ONE game. I hear this – well she does well for the NT – argument all the time and its bogus. Maybe that is because the opposition is weaker? maybe its because she needs other better playersaround her.? Either way, a truly top player transcends that stuff.

          • AlexH

            That is not always the case though, especially with the NWSL where national team players sort of view their day job as optional.

          • NYRick

            Also the top US players don’t take the NWSL matches seriously. They gear all their energy for the US camps and games. Lloyd is a prime example. They know they can waltz through the NWSL season with little care. Just don’t get hurt and protect your meal ticket spot on the NT. And it is a helluva lot easier playing on the NT against weak competition and with good players all around you. And in Lloyd’s case, they build their attack around her. She is allowed to freelance.

          • #1Fan

            ok so ill take the bait. Why is this allowed ?

          • NYRick

            Wild guess: jersey sales.

          • Steglitz49

            The simple answer is usually the right one.

          • DNG

            I don’t think this applies to many players. Most of the players seems to care about their NWSL teams.

        • Anon

          NWSL /= NT. She has been better for the NT than Press has IMO.

        • JL

          Jim Gabarra said that he wanted to shift the Spirit away from having Dunn as the main focal point of the offense this season because she would be missing time for the Olympics. That’s not the only reason why Dunn went from leading the league to not scoring until their 18th game, but it is a factor.

          • #1Fan

            she has had chances..just missed them . thats the point .

          • Terry Lash

            The Spirit have good options for forward this year. My favorite is Williams, who seems to be developing well.

      • Guest

        Horan and Press up top

        • Don’t hate me

          I don’t think they will start Press and Horan up top, if they start Press it will be with Morgan..

          • Guest

            Either one would work. I am just saying that Press and Horan up top would be lethal. Two crafty, savvy players who seem to get each other and have that technical style. In the limited minutes they get together you see a bunch of clever backheels and dumbys and combo play that would only become more lethal with you know, more than 5 minutes together

          • Don’t hate me

            I agree I would like to see Horan and Morgan or Press and Morgan or all three together, but Ellis always uses Lloyd I mean she is good but let others play and when Lloyd starts at mid she always goes up top just to score goals, an that takes it away from the forwards but I mean a goal is a goal, and if you are wide open take it, but Lloyd is a ball hog but that’s my opinion

          • Steglitz49

            Why do you want to see Press? Her time has come and gone. JE must bring in new talent, not keep on with the dead wood.

          • Don’t hate me

            I mean I just want to see if she could maybe perform better if she is up top with someone like Morgan, cross my fingers but she probably wont… lol but I think Jill is only bringing Press back until she calls others up to camp. Because in all honesty Press is just not performing well enough for the NT.. but Jill keeps calling her back

          • Steglitz49

            The pairing is so obvious that one must assume it was tried in practice and did not work.

            Alex will still be 29 in WC-19 — just, by a few days admittedly, but Christen will be 30 and approaching on 31. She has a WC winners medal. Enough. High time to give some others a chance.

          • Don’t hate me

            Yeah I’m sure they probably did try it in practice and didn’t work out. The thing with Christen when she is in she just doesn’t know what to do with the ball so she just shoots.. and 9 times out of 10 she misses or goes wide left, wide right or over the cross bar. like Japan for the friendly and When they play Germany in the She Believe Cup.
            I thought she would be done after this year she won her medal for WC… she should be happy… But I think Morgan will play through the next WC and Olympics… because like you said she’ll be just 31 that’s still young….
            You think Lloyd will still be playing..

          • Steglitz49

            Christen allegedly had an offer of a broadcasting job in Rio. If that is correct, she should have taken it. Now she has no value.

            Alex could do like ARod did after OG-12.

          • Don’t hate me

            She does work for some fox network I think, but I didn’t know that she could have did broadcast for the Olympics, yeah she should have done that, Alex could do that but I think they did a interview with her and she said she’s not ready to have kids yet, but you never know things happen…. take Syd and Dom, Syd said she wanted to wait but see how that turned out…

          • Steglitz49

            Alex, like ARod, is in control of her destiny.

            What is it with having names starting in A like Aya and Amanda.

          • Don’t hate me

            Ha ha thats true..

          • mockmook

            The other forwards also miss “easy” chances.

            I’d give Press more caps, but I’d get rid of JE — Press and JE may not be compatible.

          • Don’t hate me

            Yeah I really don’t think JE likes Press… and someone said that she felt bad for Press that’s why she played so much against the Netherlands, but they could be just starting something. People also people say that Press might not get a lot of call ups.. but once again they could be starting things, they might not be fans of Press… ???

          • Don’t hate me

            Yeah I agree JE and Press aren’t compatible and I heard that JE felt bad for Press so she gave her minutes on Sunday

          • Don’t hate me

            Some say that if JE is still the coach Press won’t get call ups, she just calls her up cause she was on the WC, or didn’t have any others but they could just be starting things..

          • Don’t hate me

            I think there will be a couplr new faces on the team next year..

          • Ethan

            Well, you saw two moments of clever interplay between Press and Morgan in the second Japan match. The first was around the box; the second led to Heath’s miss.

          • Frode

            I suspect that over the next 12 months, we will see new strikers played in combination with Morgan, Press and Lloyd (4-4-2) or with Morgan or Press centrally in the 4-3-3. Those calling for a complete overhaul of the attacking front are in for disappointment.

          • Don’t hate me

            oh I agree there will be some new faces to the mix… but who knows what Ellis will do when they get there

          • kernel_thai

            They need to overhaul the tactics not the talent.

          • mockmook

            Both.

          • Steglitz49

            Forget Press. She will be gone within 12 months and probably within 6.

      • DNG

        You think Morgan has been inconsistent in front of goal and want to replace her with Dunn? Dunn’s finishing has been anything but consistent in the NWSL this year. Many of those games I find far more competitive and challenging for players than the friendlies the USWNT schedules.

        • Don’t hate me

          I think Dunn and Press are great coming off the bench,

        • Craigaroo

          It could have to do with how Dunn is used with the Spirit. My impression (based on limited viewing) is that Dunn has to create her own opportunities to shoot, creating a little space for herself from around the 18-yard. She’s good at it and she’s dangerous but they are lower-percentage shots. At the same time, though, she creates opportunities for others and I believe her assist total reflects that.

          • ABCDE

            agreed.

          • DNG

            How is that different from how she is used on the NT? The bigger issue for me though is that she has dribbled herself in positions to score and has not been able to finish. Shots that went in last year simply aren’t going in this year.

          • #1Fan

            Because she had NEVER been a good finisher. Hard working player and good athlete, but not a real goal scorer.

          • Craigaroo

            Maybe the point is she’s being used differently this year with Washington as opposed to last year? Two different coaches, after all, and while Gabarra’s a decent coach I never thought he was an offensive genius. (Last year, of course, the coach was Mark Parsons who moved to Portland). Also of note, in the same (outside) role with the US, she can be more productive because the team as a whole is more dangerous and opens more space for her and provides her with more outlets.

      • anon

        Morgan has been good this year, not amazing but not bad enough to call for her head either. No one else has done better.

        • AlexH

          I’m not calling for her head, I am calling for competition. Morgan has been good but not “don’t even bother looking at anybody else” good.

          • kernel_thai

            What if Morgan lead the team in scoring…would u change ur mind? O wait, she does

      • Frode

        Internationally, Press, Morgan and Lloyd all have excellent strike rates as measured by goals/90 minutes played.

      • kernel_thai

        Morgan has 15 goals in 18 games…what sort of number would make u happy?

        • DNG

          It’s really not about the number of goals but her quality of play. I think anyone can make a pretty objective assessment that Morgan was poor in the first half of this match. There’s also the question of her fit within this team’s style of play. It’s no longer just a counter-attacking/high press transition team.

          • Ethan

            But her first half here wasn’t representative of most of her NT play this year, and I don’t think it was representative of a good deal of her club play either. (I know plenty of people will disagree with my club play opinion.)

          • DNG

            Having watched many of the Pride’s matches this year I have a hard time agreeing about the club matches. We’ve already had this discussion before though so I’ll leave it there.

            Up to this point in her career Morgan has been very successful. It is my opinion however that the game is changing and with skill sets like hers are becoming less and less effective. I’d like to see the USWNT change it’s personnel to reflect this. I am advocating that Morgan be dropped from the squad. However, I think the days of guaranteed match day starters needs to end across the board.

          • Ethan

            I’ve watched all of the Pride matches in full except for the Kansas City one, and we will just have to disagree. I just think Morgan’s been a dominant creative force for the Pride this season (most notably in the Seattle match, the second Houston match, and the first Sky Blue match), and the goals she has scored have been very nice. Her finishing has been poor at times though, but since her first half play was worse more because of decision making and execution, I was more focused on that.

          • Breakers fan

            My theory of many fans:
            If people become fixated on an idea or view of a player and in conjunction favor another player and hope to realize that vision for the team — they may genuinely think it’s a change for the better — but if they’re kind of hellbent on a certain view of a player then they will dilate with force upon any transgression of that player, while any good play by that player will tend to be glossed over, minimized. They don’t receive equal weight; and interpretation of play in general will skew based on whether they are basically pro- or anti- a certain player. Not to discount what is said, as it should be responded to objectively, but I think it’s pretty rare to find a truly level-headed and deeply aware and knowledgeable, in terms of “amount of play seen closely”, analysis of players. I love hearing your observation of Morgan, though, to me in contrast, because you have seen a lot and you watch her closely and you are not afraid to also point out the “warts”, or falling short instances of her play. But you’re quite right to also note her very positive moments of play. I’m super-skeptical of those who aren’t balanced in this regard.

          • Ethan

            Thanks. I’m not the most level headed at times when defending Morgan from criticisms that are unjustified in my opinion, but like you say, I am quite critical of her at times (i.e. the penalty miss and that very poor execution on the breakaway with her and Lloyd yesterday). That being said, I do think DNG is more level headed and objective in his criticisms of Morgan than a number of other posters are.

            Admittedly, not being a Lloyd fan, I can be overly critical of her at times, and I think I do fall prey to your quite accurate theory at times. I do generally give her credit for her positive plays though, and she makes a number of them outside of her goals and assists. Quite appreciative of these posts of yours.

          • Breakers fan

            I agree about DNG – he’s a smart viewer of the game. Each person has to check him/herself and ask “Am I being completely fair?” The best way to counteract any bias one may have towards a player is to substitute in one’s mind one’s favorite player for one’s most reviled and vice versa so that the actions of one’s favorite appear to be done by one’s most reviled and vice versa.,And then see what one wants to say about each of them after the game. It’s kind of a mindtrip to do this…..For you picture Morgan in Carli’s body and vice versa.
            To me, despite the opponent, Carli has been very good the last few games overall. I just saw her against the Breakers too. I’ve been impressed anyway. The passing has been better, I think, while the shooting has been sharper. And she has a physicality that is effective. Thailand though — I agree, it’s hard to judge that game with too much seriousness. That said, my ideal lineup – she’s not in it. That could be a personal bias of mine. Right now, though, honestly, I may keep her in as a starter.

          • DNG

            I can’t properly look at player performance without taking into account the opponent. I feel similarly when reviewing individual goals. The circumstances of each goal matter to me. Lloyd did well on her goal and assist against the Netherlands but I thought the rest of her play was just awful even admitting that it improved a little in the second half. She gave the ball away in bad places on the field more than I thought acceptable and took a number of ridiculously bad shots from distance.

            As far as my personal biases. My favorite players in no particular order are Morgan Brian, Megan Rapinoe, and Tobin Heath. They all probably reflect a more progressive style of soccer that I enjoy watching. If I have a bias for anything, it is a desire to see the USWNT play more progressive football, improve as a footballing nation, and inspire the next generation to improve on what is already here. It definitely influences how I view certain players but I try my best to stay relatively objective.

            After naming those three as my personnel favorites. I have also been pushing to see the US try a 3-5-2 which Heath and Rapinoe don’t really fit into. Heath may be able to play centrally and run as a wingback for one more cycle but a switch to this formation would essentially end Rapinoe’s career as a starter and she wouldn’t even really be a good substitute. Players that I do not like as much in general (Ohai, Dunn, and O’hara) are quite possibly better choices at wingback than Heath and would suddenly become very valuable.

          • Breakers fan

            I’ll have to re-watch the game to really get a feel for my own personal evaluation of Lloyd’s entire game. Honestly I wasn’t paying laser-close attention to her every play, as I was watching with some other people. As for the other people you mention, I’ve been a big fan of Brian and Heath for years. Tobin can at times be frustrating, however, when she gets in her “I’m gonna hold the ball here for a while because I enjoy doing that”, though I think she’s getting beyond that to some extent as she gets older and hopefully siser. Pinoe I think you overrate a bit, especially now at this point of her career, but I’ve been a fan as well and acknowledge her excellent play at fairly numerous times over the years. Dunn and O’Hara I’m a bigger fan of than you, probably significantly bigger. Looking at these examples one can see where our personal preferences fall – you are more into slower, ball-control type players, and while I certainly value that as well, I value speed more than you, and a certain aggressiveness of play. I think I rate Dunn and O’Hara higher than you in the skill department, though I do acknowledge that at times they make errors from perhaps going too fast. What they add beyond that is something that I think is extremely helpful to our team and in the end of your post you admit that about Dunn and O’Hara. I like that you can see the skills and assets of each player. I like Dunn as a forward more than you as well. Heath I do think could play centrally with her ball skills and good vision. I would love to see that tried – it would open up a wing slot so that Dunn and Pugh could both start and play about 90. Jill needs to think of this idea.

          • DNG

            Tobin can at times hold the ball too long but I think that has more to do with her looking for a pass and not seeing a good option. I for one am sick and tired of players who rely on their speed to get past the last player, get to end line and then cross to no one or to a box full of defenders. That is not good decision making and why I like it when Rapinoe and Heath hold up play when they don’t have numbers.

            Rapinoe is pretty close to being done because she doesn’t have the legs. I think people are severely underrating her ability on the ball because she has been historically seen as a crosser in the Wambach era of play. She is an excellent passer(not just crosser) and dribbler. That chip pass she put on a platter for Lloyd in the Thailand game was class. She also created the US’s 3 goal with a good turn and cross.

            Ohai, Dunn and O’hara are players with tons of pace that track back and defend. I like them a lot in certain position. Dunn and Ohai in particular are very similar players to Morgan. They like to have space to get in behind. They are not flank players in a more possession oriented attack. They also struggle passing from the wing into traffic. Their backtracking ability and pace makes them ideal wingbacks that can go up and down the sideline for 90 minutes.

            On Dunn specifically at forward, she is pretty simply a poor finisher. She isn’t quite Heath levels of inept but her finishing just isn’t very good compared to true forwards. It honestly wasn’t even that great last year as she took 84 shots. She also has a poor first touch relative to the other central players like Brian, Horan and Long or Heath and Rapinoe. I don’t think it’s good enough for her to play as a CAM. Second striker might be more feasible but again I have issues with her finishing.

          • Breakers fan

            Re: Rapinoe and her abilities — whtld and I did a research project of reviewing Jaelene Hinkle’s play. In it we saw the whole team play of course. I just looked at my notes because I recalled a game in which Rapinoe was awful. I had counted 7 turnovers from her at a point early in the 2nd half. So her “passing and dribbling abilities” are, in my mind, very much in question, inconsistent – the quality you critique in other players. And as you say she’s aging, she’s had 3 knee surgeries. She’ll have to prove her value to me again for me to feel she’s worthy of being on the NT roster.

            Dunn’s shooting abilities — led the NWSL (her # of shots doesn’t concern me that much, she led the league and led her team to the playoffs); and what is her NT scoring rate, goals per 90 minutes? That’s what I look at first.
            This year she’s been focusing much more on being an assister with the Spirit.

            Beyond that it’s clear you have aesthetic preferences as a fan and those figure into your comments across the board. I guess we all do.It’s unavoidable. Yours is towards the “beautiful sequences of passing”. “nifty dribbling”, “methodical, impressive advancing of the ball down the field” side of the spectrum. I think we all enjoy that, and I’m not arguing against it. I just think I’m more a fan of speed and what gets results. Prettiness of play isn’t the only thing I think is valuable. And I think you underestimate, to some extent, abilities in those you often critique. So in the end we have different opinions about certain players. No biggie. Not sure who exactly is “right” – it’s probably a mixture. if there even is a “Truth”. We just enjoy seeing different things on the field, in the end, I think.

          • DNG

            You are pointing to one game as evidence of Rapinoe’s quality? I thought she was more consistent last year than I had previously seen her. Her play for the Reign is better in their system which I think suits her.

            Why focus on the NT scoring stats when the NWSL ones probably tell us more. By that I am refering to the difference in quality of opponent with respect to each team. Dunn’s scoring rate for example takes a big plunge if you take away those 5 goals against 100 something ranked puerto rico that costa rica scored close to 10 goals on. I think Dunn has one goal on 30 shots this year for the Spirit. She hasn’t recoreded an assist since before the break either. The real issue is that Dunn has been able to dribble into good shooting positions and failed to score for the Spirit. I like Dunn a lot as a player but as a wing back, not really as a forward due to the finishing and passing accuracy. Like Heath I think Dunn sometimes holds the ball too long as well.

            Speed can be blunted by smart tactics and organization. This is very apparent in the men’s game and we are starting to see it more in the women’s game. The US hasn’t won a match against Sweden in 4 years. South Africa and Mexico held the US to one goal. The focus on results over developments is largly what’s leading to many countries closing the gap

            This really isn’t an argument of direct vs indirect play either the best teams can adapt to their opponent and play both styles. I’ve said this in other comments but the only thing keeping France from being dominant is a good center forward that can consistently score goals for them. They do not play purely pretty football like some think. Have pace all over and stretch teams but they can also break teams down when needed.

          • Breakers fan

            It’s not that she was excellent in every other game. I haven’t done an analysis of all of them. I’m pointing out one in which she was terrible. Great technical players don’t have stretches of play like that, I don’t think. I’m sure there are others or other halves but I haven’t done thorough research.This is how she got the Jekyll and Hyde reputation as a player. (“good and bad Pinoe”)

            Dunn and Pugh and Press and Morgan aren’t “just speed” as you know. In the Sweden game who made the fantastic touch pass- lob – to Carli’s head on the goal that was disallowed? It was Dunn if you don’t recall. Who were the key actors in the goal that prevented us from losing in regulation? Dunn and Morgan. I think you can be too black and white in your evaluations, though I appreciate the distinctions you try to make between players in a general sense and how you have a vision for where the US team should go. We just don’t have the exact same vision of what we think is best. But our visions really aren’t all that far off from each other.

            Basically I think we all kind of draft and shape specifics – stats, interpretations of play, selective pointing out of instances of play — into promoting and defending our favored aesthetic style. You can critique Dunn for scoring that many against a weak team but no one else came remotely close to doing it.

            Any players currently not on the team you’d like to see get promoted? I’d think you’d be a big Rose Lavelle fan, as I am.

            Out of curiosity how many full 90 minute Spirit games have you honestly watched this year? I’ve seen very little if you take their full , but what I have seen Dunn has been, in my view, a key player in their efforts, goals or not.

          • DNG

            I think Rapinoe’s Jekyll and Hyde reputation comes from her trying to do too much at times. I think she’s much more effective and consistent when when she stays within the framework of the team. She does fall prey to bad decision making and poor shot selection at times but her quality and creativity is apparent to me. She would not be able to play effectively without that quality because she simply does not have those types of physical tools.

            The goal in the Sweden game was incredibly lucky and that’s how I view it. They did well to make the most of that chance but that isn’t a chance easy to replicate to try and win future games with. Heath was the player who sent in the ball if you want to give credit to everyone. I don’t think it really matters though. The final third is not the only area of the field flank midfielders need to be active and effective in moving the ball in. Dunn’s final passes and crosses have improved since she was first brought up but she still struggles in the middle third moving the ball effectively.

            When I think I usually refer to these players as speed based players. By that I mean that the majority of what they do well starts with their pace. That isn’t a bad think, having speed is good. What’s bad is when they rely too much on that speed and then have issues solving problems on the pitch when the speed doesn’t work. Contrary to some other commenters beliefs fast teams and players can be neutralized to an extent though organizations through organization and tactics.

            That is where it becomes important that the players still have the ability to solve those problems with the use of there teammates. This is something that Brian, Horan, Heath, Rapinoe, and to a lesser extent Press do well. They understand how to use each other to manipulate the spaces on the football pitch. I think Pugh will do this well too in time I think she see the game the ‘right’ way. When I watch Dunn play I see teammates give her the ball and then everyone watch or move in the box as she takes her woman 1v1 that either ends in a cross or a shot because she is a good 1v1 player. Long crosses and shots outside the box are not high percentage scoring plays for Lionel Messi let alone Dunn. Against most of the competition the USWNT plays this is not an issue but once they run into a better team it stops being anywhere near as effective.

            The plays the US should be looking to make should look more like the one like the Alex had at 41:51 this match. I killed Alex for shooting instead of making the pass that should have been a tap in for Lindsey Horan. I want to note Lindsey’s importance on the first ball into Morgan. Lindsey times the start of her run so that it happen at the same time Heath releases the ball to Morgan. Lindsey’s defender ends up playing Morgan onside which allows Morgan to turn towards goal with some space to work with. Lindsey then beats her defender to inside position and holds her off right in front of the goal waiting for a pass that Morgan needs to make. If Morgan makes that pass, it’s a great goal. Those are the types of goal that the US should be creating and it drove me crazy that Morgan did so much right and got it so very wrong in the crucial moment.

            I really like Levelle and Colaprico off the top of my head. I’d like to see Andi Sullivan as well.

            I’ve seen probably close to 12 of the Spirit’s 19 game. As many of their games against the top teams as I could. I don’t think the Offense revolves around Dunn’s countering ability as it did last year which is what I see as the primary reason for her reduced goal production. I think the key for the Spirit this year has been their control of the midfield against most teams and their defense.

          • mockmook

            “fast teams and players can be neutralized to an extent ”

            But, they also can score “to an extent” by taking advantage of their speed when the other team makes a mistake (and all teams make mistakes).

          • DNG

            I disagree. Mistakes are always made but those mistakes don’t always lead to quality chances let alone goals. In order for the US to really exploit mistakes with speed they need to draw teams out. A team I saw them draw out well and hurt on the counter was Japan in all recent meetings. They failed miserably at that against Sweden because they were extremely disciplined and have fast players who can hurt the US on the counter.

            You should also expect the frequency of mistakes to lessen as the rest of the world becomes better. Speed can be effectively neutralized if a team gives up the midfield and game plans to control the space in front of their goal and that is where those speed players need their other qualities to break through. Shots from outside that shell are not very threatening for any decent goalkeeper. On another angle of this argument we also saw a France back line with a player who could keep pace with any of our forwards in Mbock. Mbock and the rest of that back line essentially made Morgan a non factor for most that match.

          • Breakers fan

            Good analysis of Rapinoe – I totally agree. And this inconsistency, this over-reaching and now her aging and how she’s been out of the loop for a good while now all needs to be considered when thinking about her place on the team at this juncture – never mind the other thing people are talking about. But yes I also agree that at her best she is creative and a quality player.

            The Sweden goal – an element of chance, yes, but the athleticism and speed of those 2 players, both of whom you may bench were you in charge, if I’ve read your posts correctly, are what netted the goal, regardless of some overarching description of luck. They made the play and it got us into a PK shootout. Other players in their position at the time and I highly doubt that play gets made. This is a good example of how much depends on how one views plays, how one interprets them. And you’re quite right to point out Heath’s role. I couldn’t remember who made the in-pass.

            Also, good description of “if a player relies *too much* on speed.” I don’t think we have that problem as much as you think we do but sure every player who is fast and who may need to work more on the other aspects of her game should continue to work on those aspects. I’m hesitant to pull our fastest, plus also good, players from the lineup — Morgan, Dunn, Press, Pugh.

            I’ll check out that play you reference and write back about it after this.
            I agree with “long shots outside the box are not high percentage”. I was unaware that Dunn does this a lot. She doesn’t with the NT, but maybe you’re talking about the Spirit? It should also be remembered that plenty of shots outside the box have hit the back of the net, so they shouldn’t necessarily *not* be taken either.

            You’ve seen a lot more Spirit games than I have so I respect your viewpoint. My only counter to what you said would be to ask, say 100 ardent knowledgeable Spirit season-ticket holders if they think Dunn has been a key to their success this year and also ask the other Spirit players and their coaching staff. Just to see if they differ in their opinion, if they think she has been a key to their success. Also, you know that assist totals can be very, very misleading. The real question to ask is “how many nice lead passes to forwards who then had a good shot at goal has Dunn provided? How many scoring opportunities has she created?” That gets at the heart of the matter, rather than “how many times did forwards convert *after* Dunn did the above?”

          • DNG

            I’m not necessarily benching Dunn I just like her at a different position. This is an example of a lineup I would like to try.

            ————Press——-Horan————-
            ———-Brian———–Heath———–
            O’hara———-Colaprico———-Dunn
            ——-Menges—Brunn—Sonnett——-

            I don’t think speed and athleticism had as much to do with the goal as you did. I thought it looked more like poor marking and positioning by the Swedish defense with some luck mixed in.

            I think that certain players rely too much on their speed and athleticism. This actually doesn’t show up as much against the better teams because teams like Japan, Germany and France believe they can play with the US and I think they can for the most part. Germany and Japan’s recent teams have been much slower at the back end than the US forwards This is why the US hasn’t seemed to be troubled too much by either recently. Where the problem is apparent is when the team comes up against a good defense that set their team up with the purpose of neutralizing the US’s speed players. Just this year I recall the US struggling to break down Mexico, South Africa, and of course Sweden. If I was in charged of a team playing the US, I would sit deep and counter them to, first and foremost, take away the speed advantage of the US through tactics. The US back line has also shown to be vulnerable to counters by fast players.

            The shots from outside the box are more recent and due to playing on the wing. She doesn’t actually take too many and isn’t close to the worst offender on the team. I just threw them in there because they, along with long high crosses, are what defensive shells are designed to allow and deal with. Dunn prefers to dribble to cross or shoot and crash the goal to get goals. So far I haven’t see her looking to make passing combinations anywhere on the field.

            Dunn has been pretty good for the Spirit but I think the strength of the Spirit lies in their ability to control games in ways they just didn’t do last year. They have one of the top midfields in the league.

            Here’s the Morgan play, I’m not sure if the angle showing the beginning of Lindey’s run is in this replay though.

            https://youtu.be/7Vd-mEbsCU8?t=118

          • Breakers fan

            Athleticism on the Sweden goal from Morgan being so quick, and aggressive to immediately slide and make that shot and a shot not at the keeper. Dunn, though 5’1″ jumped quite high to affect that interaction. Admittedly a lesser but taller athlete would have had to not jump as high.

            I know what you’re saying about bunkering teams against us. I think we need a bigger sample size first. We were one call away from winning that game – a ref feeling that the Swedish player dove primarily on the great pass from Dunn and then Carli’s top-notch header. Though then of course it must be said that Sweden got a horrendous offsides call soon after.
            Second you may be right that a different lineup would work better against bunkering teams, but we don’t know. It’s speculation but has good sense behind it.For me, to remove quickness and athleticism from our lineup is kind of risky, but I’m open to trying your suggestions. If only we called the shots.

            I see you’re not generally a fan of crosses. We differ there. I’m not *always* a fan of them but they can be a quite legitimate way to score a goal with all that can happen when a good one is delivered.

            As far as Dunn “never” having looked to make a passing combination anywhere on the field, I’m skeptical, but only a review of all her play would confirm or deny your claim. And as for her Spirit play I’d ask all my questionnaire people mentioned in my previous post if “pretty good” would be the first adjective they’d use to describe her play for the team this year.

            The Morgan play — great pass by Heath there – tremendous! – then, as you say Morgan does several excellent things – she makes that very good run, traps a swift ball while at a sprint expertly, continues on to goal very well, and then …..I would ask “did she see Horan?” Not saying she shouldn’t have, but did she? The shot there isn’t crazy, especially if she didn’t see Horan. Overall i’d probably come down on the side of “yeah, she probably should have noticed her” but to focus so much on that as opposed to the fact that Morgan was fantastic in just getting to that point is to not describe the ENTIRE play fairly in my view (though you did also give Morgan credit) . We don’t get to that point of being able to feed Horan in many cases.

          • DNG

            Morgan already had inside position on her defender at the moment Heath released the initial ball in. She was always getting to that ball first provided she wasn’t foulded.

            I’m not removing all the quickness and athleticism just repositioning some of it. I actually added some to the back end with the removal of JJ. Press is very capable of stretching defenses when she wants to since she is a lot faster than many give her credit for. Horan gives the team strength and skill in the box as well as being a target herself.

            I am against using crosses as the primary method of chance creation. Crosses are of course useful in any offense. Crosses are also more effective the closer to goal they originate from.

            I think you are focusing too much on the term never. How about rarely? The players I refer to when claiming they excel using combinations do it pretty much every time they play.

            I can’t see any situation where it was okay for Morgan to take that shot as oppose to passing. I can see Lindsey calling for the ball with her body language. Her hands are pointing to where she wants it. I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that she was actually calling for the ball vocally. Either way Morgan needs to pick her head up and find her teammate.

          • Breakers fan

            Inside position but she MAKES the run. Some players would just stand there. Pause the play at 2:01 of the highlight video. Heath still has the ball. Morgan *anticipates* a possible pass from Heath and leaves before Heath passes it. Fabulous run! Heath then makes an awesome pass. As far as whether Alex heard Horan – we have no clue if Horan was vocalizing. She may not have wanted to draw more attention to herself. Then as far as whether Alex *should have* seen Horan…….maybe, maybe not. Watch it again, pausing it every half-second or so to see what Alex was facing. She is fending off a defender, for one. They’re shoulder to shoulder. That takes one’s attention as one is trying to maintain control of the ball. Then she really just has one dribble, which she’s already made, before having to make a decision of what to do. Not sure if you’ve played forward much but in a situation like that – that close to call, sprinting on a dribble your first thought is to focus on the ball. Very little time for a glance around. It, in stark contrast, is so easy for us from the bird’s eye view of the overhead camera and multiple instant replays to see the whole field and make these “knowing” declarations about what a player should have done. Alex simply has her head down for a split second in order to try to hit the ball well while sliding to the ground. Tough for me to say definitively that she really should have seen Horan. That’s some high standards. To me my biggest critique — and seeing all she did there, it’s very small – is that she didn’t make a better shot, albeit with her non-dominant leg — another reason she may have been even more focused on the ball – she knew she was about to strike it with a leg she feels less comfortable using. Does that make sense?

            About your lineup – yes I see that you do keep a good amount of athleticism on the field, thanks for pointing that out.

          • Breakers fan

            2 additional notes — she only has inside position because she creates it with her run.

            And pause the play at 2:04 and then again at 2:05 — she has a defender on her left which certainly made it harder to see Horan.

          • DNG

            I’m not disputing that she doesn’t need to make the run to get inside just that you don’t necessarily need to be fast to get to that position. You can also get there with Strength or simply by recognizing the situation faster than the defender.

            I see what you’re talking about but Morgan doesn’t get a pass from me. Playing soccer is hard and she needs to make this play. Shooting is quite simply unacceptable. I would be saying the same thing for anyone else who shot instead of passed here.

          • Breakers fan

            Thanks for your viewpoint. I have nothing more to add. Except one thing I just thought of — the far post was a make-able shot if she had hit it well.

          • DNG

            Any shot is makeable if you hit the ball well(perfectly). My view on this shot is that it is a low percentage shot by Morgan that was taken in lieu of a very high percentage shot(Horan). I understand it’s not certain they will connect on the pass but I think it’s still worth it to attempt the pass. I would have been completely fine(mostly fine) with her attempting the pass and the play not working out. Execution doesn’t always turn out perfectly and that’s okay. Poor decision making needs to be corrected immediately. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen Morgan take a low percentage shot with better options available.

          • Breakers fan

            You realize you’re presuming she saw Horan, and I hope you acknowledge that it’s very easy for us to see Horan but for Morgan at field level with all that was going on it’s much harder?

            About the shot — I should have added that it was a quite reasonable shot to take. Especially if she didn’t notice Horan due to her view being blocked, Horan being a little bit backwards of her, having just fended off a defender, still having that defender nearby, following a ball on the ground at a full sprint, and needing to make a decision pronto. If you played the game I think you’d be sympathetic to these factors. Have forwards in the history of the game made that pass yes? Have many others not? Also yes. I think you’re being too harsh but that’s just my opinion.

          • DNG

            I have played and my evaluation of the conditions don’t change. Football is a difficult sport but she is considered the top striker on the best team in the world. Opperating in difficult conditions is part of her job description. The window to pass to Horan was not that small. I think she could have made the pass the touch before taking the shot. She needs to see Horan or at least hear her calling for the ball and pick her head up and pass the ball.

            I don’t think I’m being too harsh on Morgan at all. I bet that if you were in position to ask her, or anyone else on the team who re-watched the game, they would all tell you that Morgan should have passes that ball. Compared to the raking Press takes on this website Morgan has it easy.

          • Breakers fan

            In the end we’re speculating about a lot of this – was Horan vocal, did Morgan see her, should she have seen her, what would other players say about this knowing what it’s like to be on the field, not watching it from the sky like we do. Above all let’s keep in mind that Morgan created about 80% of that play. Heath makes a great pass, Horan makes a nice run to get open, but Morgan did the yeoman’s share of work there. There is what we say – we’re both just giving our interpretations – and then there is the truth. And an attempt to reach the truth is always my aim – not evening out how much criticism players get on some random message board.

          • DNG

            I certainly do not think I am levying an undue level of criticism on Morgan to “even the field” with other players. I think Morgan deserves my critique and I think giving her 80% of the credit is way too high. I think you’re giving far too little to Horan who’s initial run kept Morgan onside and too little to Heath for taking 4 defenders out of the play with 1 ball.

          • Breakers fan

            Agree about Heath’s pass deserving more credit. Horan’s position was coincidental though it helped of course. It wasn’t like she thought “I think Tobin’s gonna pass it to Alex and if I don’t get down here Alex may be offsides.” So yes, I agree – I’ll go down to 60%. In the end you come down a lot harder on Morgan than I do. End of story as far as I can tell.

          • DNG

            Coincidental or not doesn’t really matter to me. If she doesn’t make the run Morgan is offside and there is no play.

          • Breakers fan

            Ok, so what good do you want to say about Morgan here?

          • DNG

            I already gave Morgan credit for her trap and turn. I just panned her for getting the crucial moment wrong.

          • Breakers fan

            But you don’t mention to me maybe the best part – anticipating the pass from Heath, making that quick run to create separation and establish an inside position. Nor do you give her credit for fending off a defender right on her and keeping control of the ball.
            Your criticism implies also that it should have been *easy* for someone in her position to see Horan. That’s where we disagree.

          • DNG

            I don’t get how you see anything extraordinary from the run. The run was a fairly standard run off the shoulder. The quick trap and turn was good. She should have picked her head up right after the turn and released the ball faster. The only reason she was allowed to get that free though is because the defender marking her was trying to trap her offside. That’s where the importance of Horan’s run comes in. If you’re telling me this pass was too difficult to make I think the USWNT needs a better CF. You’re right I don’t think it was as difficult play as Morgan made it look. I think Dunn would have pulled that off easily.

          • Breakers fan

            I can’t do this any longer. I’ve given my description of the play as I saw it. We disagree about several aspects. You can carry on if you want, I’m done.

          • DNG

            You can believe whatever you want it’s pretty clear we just see the game differently.

          • Breakers fan

            Right – all of soccer – differently. And of course you’re more right, correct? I’ll go ahead and grant you permission as well to believe whatever you want.

          • DNG

            I will thank you. 🙂

          • Breakers fan

            Last thing – what position did you play? Asking in relation to this play and if you ever were in Morgan’s position with all of that going on around you in exactly that way.

          • DNG

            LM and yes I found myself in similar positions. As a creator my mindset was different than a strikers. I was always looking to make the final pass. The game is changing now though. Strikers are expected to do much more today at top level. I also learned much more about the game after I stopped playing and started watching more.

          • Breakers fan

            Ok, thanks. We’ll just continue to keep a critical eye on everyone and judge everyone by the same standards. Hopefully we can find a striker who is exceptional consistently at every aspect of the game. Otherwise she will hear about it! 🙂

          • DNG

            It was one botched play in a half I didn’t think she was very effective in(apart from this play ironically). The significance of the play though was missing an very good chance to score. I don’t know Morgan’s specific circumstances as they are impossible to know unless she speaks to them. So based on what I can see, it looked like she had time to pick her head up and slide the ball over.

          • Breakers fan

            It would have been the perfect end of an already-excellent play by Morgan. We differ in our expectation of her with relation to Horan. I think it’s eminently understandable that maybe she didn’t see Horan – having to deal with a pesky defender ridiing her left side — the side Horan was on — the entire time she had the ball – which was all of 2 seconds, having to look at goal, dribble the ball, get ready to shoot the ball, while Horan may have been blocked from her view as she was a bit behind Morgan horizontally and that’s where her defender was standing. All that considered I don’t really fault Morgan much for not taking her head up and looking around considering that and how little time she had. You think it’s “a lot” of time. I don’t. So we simply *interpret* this play differently. Yeah, it would have been awesome, but taking a shot there wasn’t stupid. It was the only play if she didn’t see Horan. Do you ever recall being in a situation exactly like that, with someone riding your inside, dribbling the ball, that close to goal? I know we’re talking about the striker on the USWNT but to me it’s more a human thing – that situation isn’t that easy and I thought your reaction was too critical, all factors considered. Without Morgan we don’t even get to that point.

            Again,as couch potatoes we are seeing it from a COMPLETELY different vantage point, and speed, since it’s replayed over and over, than Morgan was. And consider the speed at which she is moving and how her vision *with a player right on her* was largely blocked I feel in terms of where Horan was. This is why I think it’s wrong to come down so hard on Morgan. If no one had been riding her left side, sure, but someone was.

          • DNG

            In that situation the first look for me is always to slide it across the front of goal if there is a teammate there. It is my job to know where my teammates are ideally before I even receive the ball and yes I do think it’s possible to see enough of a teammate even if you are being ridden by a defender and your vision is slightly blocked off. Every play happens quickly it was my job to act quickly enough to make the right play. I think we are going to disagree about the two seconds thing. 2 seconds is a lot of time to have the ball in the box relative to what’s normal in my opinion. Usually a defender is on Morgan in under a second after she gets the ball in the box and she has to move the ball faster to make a play.

          • Breakers fan

            Ok, I see where you stand and that is one way of looking at it. I hope you hold every player to as high a standard as you do Morgan here. I’ll be looking for incisive, penetrating critiques of each play of Heath, Horan and Brian as well going forward if you wouldn’t mind providing those as well. Can you do that as a favor to me?

          • Breakers fan

            But to respond specifically to what you said here — it’s not realistic to think a human being can know where all 10 constantly moving teammates are every second of the game, especially when you turn your back to them. In this situation – which I just looked at 5 more times and I request that you to do it as well – Morgan makes an excellent run – it was — a great trap and turn. World class in that department, in my opinion. Let’s say those words in relation to Alex Morgan here, they are deserved

            Then, pause it at 2:03, right as she turns.Her first responsibility as a forward is to think about scoring on a breakaway. So her first look is quite rightly at the keeper. “what kind of chance do I have to score here?” the object of the game. It’s also her best shot to also look to her left perhaps if a player can do both things. Let’s say she can. So, still paused at 2:03 — please do this — Horan is NOT in a position to get the ball. She is behind her defender. So if Morgan glanced over then, her thought is “no teammate is in a good position to get the ball, but I have a decent shot of scoring, let me work on doing that.” Note: I’m trying to be realistic about what a human being at speed with a ball at her feet can do, not what can happen in some superhuman universe. You don’t, realistically, get a ton of chances to re-consider everything in these breakaways. As a player you know that. You have to focus on what you’re doing with the ball if you have calculated that your best bet is to score, which the picture at 2:03 tells you is the case.

            So, moving forward, pause it at 2:04. If you do this you will see that THIS is when she has the defender make contact with her left side. Close to a foul, but not, but still she has to deal with that, with her. The next thing Morgan does — we’re up to 2:05 now is slide to shoot. She probably saw Horan BEHIND her defender at 2:03, at 2:04 she has a defender hitting her on her left side, at 2:05 she takes a shot. Back to pausing it at 2:05 – the instant she slides and shoots, the ball on her foot about to be shot — You will see the defender’s right leg outstretched to try to block the shot. If Alex had passed it to Horan, cutting it back — not easy to do, but do-able — it’s possible the ball would have struck the defender’s leg. Just saying that that might have happened – not a sure thing it ends up being an assist. In all, from this new look I’m even more sympathetic to Alex’ decision making. The key point is 2:03, right after she turns and perhaps glances left. Horan is decidedly not open. So Alex goes at goal. The idea that she can prepare to shoot and keep checking left every half second I think is too demanding and unrealistic to expect. Please do this exercise and at each instant look at Horan’s position and what is happening to Alex from the defense. I could glibly say Horan should have moved much quicker to get open, so that right when Alex turned she would have been open to see. These are things one can say but I won’t because I’m not certain that’s the case. Let me know what you think pausing it at each instant – looking at both players, realizing speed of play, and be realistic and honest in your response please. Thanks.

          • DNG

            I was making a generalized statement with the point that players need to be aware of what’s going on around them. I don’t expect her to know where everyone around her is at all times. This is the moment that I think she needs to look up and find her teammate. To my eye she gets position on her defender and leaves her behind. The next touch should be to center the ball

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/214ea90ba1aeff9a9628d00ab96caaf4688608c7a92cd77b9ba70a1d72b87141.png

          • Breakers fan

            So when she had much more time – no defender riding her back – a second before this, and saw Horan was behind her defender –her mental note should have been “completely blocked, but let me see what develops, no need to decide yet, p-lenty of time, I may shoot, I may not” then, “oh wow, there’s a defender all over me, so let me deal with that, try to fend her off as I look down and still try to keep control of this ball with my non-dominant leg”, then “ok, this is it I need to take this shot now, but…………I have time to take my eye off my shot which I decided to take because when I looked a second before Lindsey was completely covered, but wait let me, as I swing my leg to shoot check again on Lindsey” — you’re saying that is what she *should have* done, and saying it with a lot of anger that she didn’t? If so, that is how we interpret this play differently.

          • DNG

            I think you need to look after turning the corner which is where I think she was at in the screen shot. Once you turn the corner take a quick look see if you have an option, if not go ahead and shoot. She is not taking any touches on the ball when fighting for position and honestly if the defender does anything egregious from behind Morgan’s getting a penalty. I don’t think she picked her head up immediately after this screen shot she actually slows down.

          • Breakers fan

            I don’t think we’re ever going to agree about this. So I respect your opinion but this time I really have exhausted all I have to say about these 5 or so seconds of play. Good discussion.

          • DNG

            Probably not I suppose we’re just going to have to agree to disagree

          • Breakers fan

            Yep.

          • Breakers fan

            One last question – did you do what I asked about pausing it at 2:03 of the youtube highlight reel you originally sent – which is when she actually turned the corner and before the defender jumped on her back? That is when, as I said, she had the most time to look left. And if she did – we’d have to ask her if she did – Horan was not at all open, she was behind her defender. So THAT was the information Alex had about Horan as she proceeded. A second later she got jumped by the defender. It’s all in my earlier post.

          • DNG

            I read it. Morgan was not ready to shot or pass at that point before the defender gets back into the play and engages her. Morgan than fights the defender off and gains position. That is where I think she needs to use her leverage in positioning and take a look. The defender is not in a position to make a play on the ball so Morgan has ‘some’ time to make her decision. At the moment Morgan received the ball her only option was to turn towards goal and she did that well.

          • Breakers fan

            It comes down to questions of “time required to make decisions in situations precisely like this, when information 2 seconds before was not auspicious”; “amount of concentration needed to shoot a tough shot”‘; “amount of time needed to properly shoot a ball”; “the range of peripheral vision as one looks down focusing on kicking a ball”. The stuff of sports scientists, it seems. If any exist. All I ask is that you apply these same standards to every female player in the world on every play. You may have a lot of posts ahead of you. 🙂

          • DNG

            Well, I will make mention of it whenever it happens around the mouth of goal and I feel there was a wasted chance. I think I have already articulated that had this been Press, Pinoe, Moe, Tobin, or whoever else, I would have made the same comment and had a problem with the shot. I don’t think my feelings towards Morgan as a player had that much influence on this play. I can’t promise that the statement I just made would have held true if this was Lloyd instead of Morgan. I’ve already been walked back by Mockmook once for perhaps unfair criticism about Lloyd.

          • Breakers fan

            I’m just bummed that all that time I spent on those 5 seconds and all the observations I made did zero to alter any of your thinking. You didn’t feel I had any worthwhile points. Oh well, I tried.

          • DNG

            If the argument was that Morgan was actually trying to pass and just miss hit the ball because she fell I would have probably said fine, I hope she does better next time.:)

          • Breakers fan

            I don’t think that was the case, sorry. Still bummed you didn’t think I made any legitimate points that made good sense and corresponded to reality. Maybe you’re out of my league with this stuff?

          • DNG

            I didn’t think so either. I think it’s been pretty firmly established that I have a different perspective on many if not all of those points. Our individual perceptions are our realities. However, if you remember, I did change my initial position on that Naeher double save so I’m not hopeless.

          • Breakers fan

            If you hadn’t changed your mind on those Naeher saves I would have labeled you hopeless, that’s for sure. I don’t understand you on disagreeing with everything I wrote on this Morgan play, I disagree with you, but whatever, we will move on.

          • Breakers fan

            I just tried to put myself in Morgan’s place, physically. Try this experiment: the ball is on the ground, you’re sprinting, a defender is just off the left side of your back, but basically still on you., or just off of your back. Now, you, physically look down at “the ball”. the floor of the room you’re in, as she had to do, then consider the concentration required to hit an accurate shot in soccer. So you’re laser-focused on the ball, on the ground in front of you, to try to strike the ball well. 2 seconds before your teammate was covered. This defender is still on your back and left side. At that point, concentrating on the ball on the ground, see how far to the left your peripheral vision goes as you’re focused on taking a shot. Your information to date has told you, in my opinion to “take a shot” (Horan was completely unopen) I don’t think my peripheral vision goes as far left as where Horan was while Morgan was, rightly, focused on shooting.

          • Breakers fan

            And up to what level did you play, may I ask? Just curious how much of your commentary is rooted in on the field experience rather than spectatorship. Not to discount the latter, but it’s different and is lacking in some crucial regards, in my opinion.

          • DNG

            Club through HS. It seems to me though that discounting the latter is exactly what you are trying to do.

          • Breakers fan

            Not discounting just want to know where you’re coming from because it is simply a million times easier to be critical from the couch than it is to play the game and if one has never played or played little and doesn’t know how different it is playing rather than sitting on a couch looking down at a game, (which the players aren’t doing as they play), able to see plays over and over, think about them, etc. then one can tend to self-congratulate about how good one is at finding fault rather than being sympathetic to what playing the sport vs quality opponents is actually like as a live experience on a field with a say 5’6″ vantage point horizontally as the action is happening.

          • DNG

            I almost feel like personal experience give me a more critical eye mostly because I know to look for things, some people I know for example, won’t pick up. I also looked at every mistake as something I could learn from and improve on when I played. The critical nature of my analysis probably has far more to do with my personality than anything else.

          • DNG

            I don’t really see any point in putting percentage points to who was most important to making the play happen. I think all three players were important.

          • Breakers fan

            My point is that Morgan did a lot of good there while you want to mostly focus on to me a dubious claim and come down really hard on it, which in a sense ignores how the play got to that point.

          • Breakers fan

            Forgot to respond to something you said – I agree that you don’t need to be a speedster to make that run. Horan could potentially make it. I do think though that Morgan’s quickness there helped it all happen like it did. You do need to be focused, alert and smart to make the run – as evidently Morgan was.

          • Breakers fan

            Also, did you watch any of our U-20 team in this tournament that recently happened? I’m just 1 game in so far, and only into minute 60 – vs. Korea — and to me you can clearly see the move to a possession style of play coming from the top down. A direction the US system wants to pursue going forward. Really slow, super careful movement of the ball. KEEP POSSESSION!! seems to be the worshipped mantra. Maybe that’s good., but so far in this game I’m watching it hasn’t led to much. It’s like a breakthrough when someone tries to move the ball forward. I’ve watched about 10 college games this year and movement is much quicker, more free-flowing, looser, more dangerous. I think the U-20s are going in the direction you seem to promote (tell me if I’m wrong) – not losing possession, stringing together successful passes at all costs even if you do little to go to that thing called the goal. Curious if you have seen any of those games. I will watch all the US ones but so far I’m not all that encouraged though clearly the players are good athletes. They just seem hamstrung by the coaching to focus above all on possession. It leads to many sideways and back passes, which of course allow the other team to rest and get completely into position.

          • DNG

            Yes I watched two of the 3 matches. I was not impressed with the U20 team. The main issues I saw are pretty prevalent in the full team. Inability for central midfielders to combine with each other and advance the ball through the center and over reliance on crosses to create chances due to the lack of creativity everywhere. They didn’t impress me and Pugh coming back from injury didn’t impress me.

          • Breakers fan

            I’ve now seen Stanford play 5 games. They are very, very good and very, very entertaining. Night and day watching a Stanford game and so far what I’ve seen from the U-20 team. I can’t believe the Stanford players are *that * much better than they appear when you watch their games vs. the U-20 team players; I have to think it’s the approach, the coaching. I gave my description of why I think it’s happening. I’d call up several Stanford players right now, or as soon as is realistic. I’d love to see them play all the NWSL teams – I’d bet they beat a good number of them. Just my opinion after watching them a bunch.
            About Pugh, I don’t need to be “impressed” by her every game. I’m confident in what she has to offer in terms of ability and potential.

          • Breakers fan

            That Rapinoe performance described below was vs. Brazil on October 21, 2015 if you want to see it for yourself.

          • HOFCToDi

            It’s simply ridiculous to criticize a player over one game in lieu of a national team career.

            FIFA Top Ten Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored

            Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 34
            Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
            Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3
            Johnston (DOB 06 Apr 1992) – 2
            Dunn (DOB 03 Jul 1992) – 2
            Horan (DOB 26 May 1994) – 2
            Mewis (DOB 09 Oct 1992) – 1

          • HOFCToDi

            First, not one player currently on the USWNT roster is perfect.

            Second, it’s literally insane to project a player’s performance three years from now especially those USWNT players currently over the age of 30:

            Solo (DOB 30 Jul 1981)
            Lloyd (DOB 16 Jul 1982)
            Krieger (DOB 28 Jul 1984)
            Sauerbrunn (DOB 06 Jun 1985)
            Rapinoe (DOB 05 Jul 1985)

          • Breakers fan

            Totally agree, HOFC — but tell that also to Jill Ellis, who I think will continue to be bullish or bearish (I can never remember which means what) in pulling veterans from the fold and starting lineup even when quality youngsters are around and clear for all to see.

          • HOFCToDi

            Pay to play is the only way for the USWNT to progress forward.

          • Breakers fan

            Pardon my ignorance but could you please just outline the main features of that system, the ones that differentiate it from the one the women’s team currently operates under? I have a vague idea but I want to see it again and see if I’m missing anything. Thanks if you do it!

          • HOFCToDi

            Pay to play is literally a personal services contract for one game.
            nytimes.com/2016/04/22/sports/soccer/usmnt-uswnt-soccer-equal-pay.html?_r=0

            nytimes.com/interactive/2016/03/31/sports/soccer/us-women-soccer-wage.html

            starsandstripesfc.com/2016/2/4/10916838/most-interesting-uswnt-cba-collective-bargaining-details

          • Breakers fan

            Thanks a lot. I’ll check out the links.

          • HOFCToDi

            Compare the lists:

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_women%27s_national_soccer_team#Recent_call-ups

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_men%27s_national_soccer_team#Recent_call-ups

          • DNG

            The poor finishing is what I have an issue with. I understand that while playing with Orlando, who has no midfield, chances are going to be harder to come by. However, I don’t think it is a ridiculous expectation for a top striker to score, let’s say 7 in 15. That is what Press is currently at and I think most would consider this a down year for her. I understand Morgan works hard and has tried to even act as creator in a few recent games but I don’t think she’s been one of the leagues top forwards. Here is a list of forwards who I think have been better: Sinclair, Kerr, Mcdonald, Groom, Press, Melis, and Ohai. That’s 7 players on 7 different teams.

          • Ethan

            Alright. [Note: It’s not just Morgan trying to act as creator, and it’s not just recent games. It’s been throughout the season, and she has been a consistent creator. (Saying Morgan’s tried to act as creator suggests she’s failed for the most part. That’s simply not true over this season.) I’ve highlighted multiple plays multiple times on this site when supporting my claims about Morgan’s overall play.] Those forwards have been great, especially Kerr in her games against Orlando.

          • DNG

            I meant more in a traditional creator role and position. Normally her creating happens out on the wing which is different from how Sermanni has used her in the last 3 games.

          • Ethan

            That’s fair.

          • DNG

            I meant to say that I am not advocating dropping Morgan like I have been Lloyd.

          • HOFCToDi

            One half does not make a season dumbass.

    • I wonder if Horan will be one of the players who “aren’t called up every time” as Jill said will happen going forward. She just doesn’t really seem to have a solid place on the team.

      • Steglitz49

        If JE tries Ms Horan at #9 for a couple of games, JE might be pleasantly surprised.

        • We could say that about a few other players as well.

          • Steglitz49

            Who do you want at #9?

          • Press at 9. I actually want us to go back to a 4-4-2.

            With the roster we had for the friendlies last week, I would go:

            ………..Press…….Morgan………..
            Heath…………LLoyd…………..Dunn
            ………………..Long…………………..
            O’Hara…Sauerbrunn..Johnston…Krieger
            ……………………..Naeher………………..

            If Pugh is with us, I start her over Dunn. Horan, Brian and Dunn would be my subs.

          • Steglitz49

            We are planning for and building towards WC 2009, not WC 1999.

          • mockmook

            Might work if Lloyd would limit herself to being CAM, but she will try to be THE center forward.

          • Yes, only will work if Lloyd plays her position. Coaches would need to force her to stick to it.

          • tonysocref

            I would put Horan in Lloyd’s place and Sonnett in Johnston’s place.

      • kernel_thai

        I think young but learning player like Dunn and Horan get called in to keep growing their game. I think if players arent called it is older bench players and maybe Rapinoe just to put a thought in her head.

  • Don’t hate me

    How many new call up you think Ellis will make, do we think everyone that was just called up will be called back up? There was a report saying not everyone in this camp will be called up?

    • Arcie Tillydee

      She talked about moving into a “reset” period in a sideline interview yesterday. That’s kind of exciting for those of us who are looking for some new blood in the program.

      • Don’t hate me

        I understand and I am OK with bringing in new people, because there is people out there that deserve a chance, I just wish Ellis would play people in there right position like Lloyd in midfield not up top and I want Ellis to play Morgan and Dunn up top.. or Morgan and Press.. but she does play Morgan and Pugh and they do great. But Ellis I thinks puts people in different position to us go crazy.

        • anon

          or try Horan with Morgan in the front. Girl is not a midfielder.

          • Don’t hate me

            I agree, I mean she has adapted to playing there but I want to see what she can do up top with Morgan.. but I don’t think Jill will ever let that happen

    • Dave

      She made it sound like everyone has earn their spot now. Though I have watched a lot NWSL games and the players there are not any better. You hear this all time. Go camp and never feature in games.

      • AlexH

        Of course soccer coaches are notorious for making statements like that and then not delivering, so take it with a lump of salt.

      • Don’t hate me

        Yeah that’s what I thought too, and just because they get called up doesn’t mean they will actually play in the game. there are a couple people that should get a chance with the team, doesn’t mean they will actually prove to the coaches that they deserve to be on the team… but I think they will be fighting for a spot.. but we all know Heath, Lloyd, KO, Morgan, Brian, JJ, Broon and a couple more don’t have to worry about their spot.

  • sudeep das

    While everybody is blaming the US defense for this goal very few have appreciated the speed of Shanice van de Sanden. Does any one have info regarding this? On screen she looked as fast as Krieger, Pugh or O’Hara. FYI Ali Krieger was clocked at 34.7 kmph in the 2015 World Cup making her the fastest player in that tourney. She was effectively faster than Ronaldo and Messi!!!

    • Don’t hate me

      Krieger is one of the fastest on the team, but KO is fast too but she couldn’t play yesterday so they played Kling and she just isn’t that fast

    • AlexH

      Because JJ (the tall one) got beat in the air while Sauerbrunn (the smart one) got caught way out of position and then suffered the further ignominy to be completely outrun (along wiht Kling). Normally you can pin the blame on one person but that was a true team effort.

      • Don’t hate me

        I think it has to do with Ellis not playing people in their right position?

        • Chak Khan

          I am suspecting Ellis wanting all her players to be able to play all positions. If she kept having the team in the same positions, the opponents would figure out how to beat the team easily. I also believe US opponents want to score first hard and fast to keep the US worried and impatient knowing in the second half US could convert.

          • Don’t hate me

            Yeah that makes sense, I never really thought about it like that. I agree that the US opponents want to start off strong try to score as many in the beginning and keep the US on their toes, like the Netherlands did the last game and when they played Japan.. I think the US need to play opponents good so they can get better, not play crappy teams

          • Chak Khan

            There are a mere handful of teams that are a challenge to the USWNT. As the game grows, USWNT will face better teams.

          • Don’t hate me

            In all honesty I kind of want more teams to be challenging for the US because they need to be challenged thats how you get better, but hopefully by the next WC and Olympics there will be better teams out there

          • mockmook

            NWSL teams, win-win, gives the USA good games and promotes the league.

            Also, play an A vs B team — let’s see how hungry the non-starters/outsiders are.

          • Don’t hate me

            That’s a good idea, but do you honestly think Ellis will do that?? Its smart see what everyone out there that is new to the NT can bring to the team, and what the people right now on the NT can do differently that makes them an asset to the team, not just someone that is just calles up and is no asset, because face it they need to do something… some people that get called up from NWSL make it there and they can’t cut it against top 5 teams

    • Arcie Tillydee

      van de Sanden is rocket fast. The only American defender I can think of offhand that would be likely to have stayed with her on that play is Emily Menges.

      • sudeep das

        And definitely Krieger with maybe O’hara.
        Yeah I thought van de Sanden was really quick when she approached the ball. Would love to know her speed though.

        • Guest

          No way to either of those two.

      • Guest

        Gilliland and possibly Dahlkemper also

      • Steglitz49

        Shanice Janice van de Sanden was born towards the end of 1992. She not only plays for the NL but this season for Liverpool Ladies. Before that she played for Twente, who put no lesser team than Bayern Munich to the sword.

    • Ethan

      I really want to know the particular play where she was clocked at that speed and for how long she was clocked at that speed because Krieger’s never looked incredibly fast to me.

    • Just Asking

      Van de Sandev was sooo fast! So was the situation unavoidable for our back line? Or do they need to work on speed?? Positioning?? Both??

      • ABCDE

        speed is kind of the one thing you can’t teach.

        • Just Asking

          Lol. Right. I don’t suppose these players can reach a level of conditioning much higher than where their at .. maybe fartleks?

          • Just Asking

            *they’re at…

        • Lorehead

          Speed and height and being left-footed. Like Bill Walton saying the secret to UCLA’s success in basketball were all those classes they gave him on how to be tall.

        • Steglitz49

          Acceleration, not just speed.

      • Chak Khan

        Could our Pugh pass her?

    • MurderOnZidanesFloor

      I’ve seen van de Sanden play live in the FA WSL and she is rapid, even breezed past Claire Rafferty who is probably the English national team’s fastest player.

  • Guest

    Ali Krieger is the vital presence on this team right now. Not playing her is a mistake.

    • Don’t hate me

      for Krieger being over 30 she is still one of the best out there she is still fast, but Ellis must not like her or something, but don’t get me wrong KO has earned her position, I want to see krieger, KO, JJ, and Broon start next game, let Kling come off the bench

      • anon

        she has a calming presence and she was the game changer last night IMO. Game could have gone either way otherwise… NED was psychologically damaged after that own goal. Still think USWNT needs to play away more.

        • AlexH

          But she is over 30 so I don’t see the point in playing her now that the games don’t really matter. This is true for lots of players BTW. Jill should be trying out youngsters right now.

          • guest

            well then she needs to call up other potential OBs because Kling and OHara is a terrible combo

        • Don’t hate me

          The NED fell apart in the second half I am surprised we didn’t score more goals, they just weren’t fit to hang with the US.

          • Steglitz49

            To be pedantic, either type Ned or NL but NED seems a bit odd.

          • mockmook

            To be pedantic, you are merely betraying (or pretending to betray) an ignorance of FIFA country codes/abbreviations.

          • Steglitz49

            Indeed. I am used to them being written Gbr, Ger, Gdr. The GDR is the oddest because everyone called that open air prison for the DDR. There are countries in Europe where the combo of letters DDR are not allowed on car plates but noone cares about having GDR!

      • Steglitz49

        Your point about Krieger is well taken. Let’s also get rid of JJ, Broon and take it from there.

        • Don’t hate me

          are there any good defense people out there in the NWSL or the under 20 NT? I am trying to think of some out there. but I think Ellis should call up people so the players now will have to fight for there position, she keeps playing JJ and Broon because that’s all they call up… add people to the mix

          • Steglitz49

            Broon and JJ were burnt in Brasilia. They were torched in this game. Some say that Broon did not hack it against France in the SBC.

            Might as well bring on the clowns as continue with this sorry excuse for a defense.

          • NYRick

            I think JJ is the problem more than Broon. And Kling as an outside back is easy to torch too, which doesn’t help. It is amazing that this back 4 unit which was highly praised and given so much credit for WC15 has regressed so rapidly.

            Yes they can shut out the tomato cans, but any top 10 team will give them problems moving forward, and the top 5 teams can on good days put a 2 spot or better on them. Changes need to be made. There is plenty of time till WC19, but personalities rule the day with this program, you know that.

          • DNG

            It was undeserved praise. The team defense, backline, midfield and forwards, was very good at the WC the back line itself was still vulnerable to pacy front lines. The first half of the Australia game the Aussies had their way with the US back line and only Solo kept the US in the game.

          • NYRick

            Germany was spent by the time of the US game after luckily surviving France. And I think we were all surprised with just how weak a team Japan was in the final. They had no business getting that far and it was evident in the final. You are right about the Aussie game, and even Sweden at the WC should have beaten them 1-nil. Outside of that, the other matches were t-cans.

          • Steglitz49

            You’ve lost me but never mind.

          • NYRick

            On what? Japan was weak? They were.

          • Steglitz49

            Sweden just struggled to beat Slovakia. It ended 2-1 to sweden but could easily have been 2-2. Granted, it could also have finished 6-1.

            Japan reached the final of WC-15. They may have been weak but they reached the final. No shame in reaching the final is there? Sweden reached the one in Rio just the other month.

          • kernel_thai

            Sure…HAO’s body isnt even cold and uve started on JJ. Somehow it was Johnston’s fault that with only attacker on Sauerbrunn’s side of the pitch, she decided to jog over and ask Johnston if she could hook her up with free cereal in exchange for a six-pack of Bud. Bad JJ. Throw her off the team.

          • Don’t hate me

            I agree, I don’t know how you feel about Sonnett or Engen but I think that they should at least get a shot to start against great teams

          • Steglitz49

            I used to be in favor of Engen but I would as soon try Emily Menges with Sonnett but why not reach into the college seniors and juniors some more. Herdman can’t be too wide off the mark, can he?

          • Don’t hate me

            I agree, look at Pugh… so yeah pull from college get some fresh new faces on the team, younger players in their prime.

          • Steglitz49

            If nothing else, light a fire under the 22-26 year olds already in the NT.

          • Don’t hate me

            True, so what do you think will happen if and when Syd comes back or Arod to the mix… that will be
            Syd.
            Morgan
            A-rod
            Pugh
            Dunn
            Press
            That’s a lot of fwds and plus maybe others

          • ABCDE

            Pugh and Dunn aren’t really forwards. Arod is gone (is she even trying to come back?). I don’t think Syd will make it. Press and Morgan will be there if healthy.

          • Steglitz49

            Morgan will be there if she is interested. Press, not.

          • ABCDE

            you can say this as many times as you want to , but you know it isn’t true.

          • Steglitz49

            I have no idea what Alex will do. Gold-Lena stepped away at 25 and Lauren at 27.

          • Don’t hate me

            Morgan will be there for the next world cup and Olympic, I don’t know about A rod but Syd will try to come back . but who knows about Press…

          • Steglitz49

            Press is past history.

          • Don’t hate me

            maybe Press isn’t cut out for the NT I mean some people do better on club then when they make it to NT the just can’t handle the pressure…

          • Steglitz49

            We are discussing the NT, not least the NT for WC-19.

            As you note, the NWSL is a hole other kettle of fish.

          • Don’t hate me

            that is true

          • ABCDE

            I’m not even the biggest Press fan in the world but history says they will probably bring in 1 or 2 rookie forwards. Press and Morgan are here to stay. There is no one better in the NWSL (ohai might get a pity call up then she’s gone, and she’s not really a forward either). THey’ll probably bring in a young college player.

          • Don’t hate me

            I think Ohai will get a call up, but Ellis will continue to use Dunn and Pugh as forward.. then we have Morgan and Press

          • ABCDE

            I’m not yet on the Pugh hype train. We’ll see how she does going forward. Ellis recently seems willing to sub out Morgan for Press so she is “second choice” forward at the moment, not Dunn who will probably remain a winger. Ohai would have to seriously impress at something like SBC but I don’t see her overtaking Heath or Dunn on the wing, anyway. But with Pinoe gone (hopefully), there is more room.

          • Don’t hate me

            Yeah that is true, but if they are in a tournament, I don’t think Ellis will take Morgan out, she tries to play her starting 11 most of the game, or bring in Dunn for a game changer… or if they are up by a lot she will bring in subs to rest the starters, but sometimes I want to see what Press and Morgan can do together.. But I think Ohai and Morgan could be good.. I don’t know how you feel about this but I think Press is better off bench. or not bring her in

          • ABCDE

            Press is a player i would use as a starter or when the game is drawn or we are up a goal, until her confidence improves and she gets more time.

          • Don’t hate me

            Yeah I don’t think she has the confidence, I have been to like four USWNT games and when she plays she is just running around, like she hasn’t played before, she looks lost. loses the ball to quickly, never finishes her shots

          • Steglitz49

            Indeed. Christen does not dominate the pitch when she steps on it. She fades into the background.

          • ABCDE

            she was the game changer last night along with krieger. Ellis clearly wanted to replace Morgan who was ineffective. you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

          • Steglitz49

            She may have changed the game against a team ranked 12th (235 pts below the US) but what did she contribute against Sweden in Brasilia when it was for real?

            In that game Alex scored the 1-1 equalizer.

          • Don’t hate me

            I agree with you, she doesn’t preform well against top 5 or top 10 teams

          • Don’t hate me

            I don’t know who the game changer was yesterday and Press didn’t come in for Morgan because she wasn’t effective, she wanted to play other people

          • ABCDE

            She was moving very quickly and was responsible for the run and play that led to the second goal. She looks like she is sucking up the speed Morgan has lost over time. Press keeps getting faster and faster it seems.

          • Guest

            Alex’s history of injuries and being played 90 every game are probably catching up with her. Press seems to be hitting the weights or something. She very rarely falls and when she does she gets right back up like nothing happened. Great body positioning and awareness.

          • Don’t hate me

            I still think Press and Morgan should start together up top

          • Don’t hate me

            I don’t doubt Press isn’t good, she knows she has to fight to get a call back

          • kernel_thai

            Note: Press is older than Morgan

          • DNG

            Morgan will age faster. Her game is primarily based on pace. Once that goes…..

          • kernel_thai

            I wouldnt be surprised to see Morgan retire after the next Olympics as he pace declines.

          • Terry Lash

            Wouldn’t surprise me if it happened sooner. She just does not look that happy these days.

          • kernel_thai

            Id be stunned if she left in her prime…too competitive.

          • Terry Lash

            The odds are you are correct, but still I have this impression she is not completely happy playing soccer now. She probably does not need the money from soccer, and she does have other interests, including writing children’s books, that could provide income.

          • Chak Khan

            She needs to partner with someone. Lloyd isn’t it.

          • Terry Lash

            Completely agree. In fact, I think the new role for Lloyd up front is causing Morgan some disappointment. But I do not foresee Ellis doing anything to change the playing time & positioning of Lloyd, causing continuing problems for Morgan. Only solution I see is to get rid of Ellis.

          • Chak Khan

            Like some other posters’ suggestion: pairing Morgan with Press. BTW, Morgan needs to speak up and fight for that right! They won’t get rid of her for that. She’s still valuable a forward to the team.

          • Deb

            Laughable. Morgan does so much more than just run fast. She has made so many great passes. She needs a running mate up top to play off, not Lloyd.

          • DNG

            Tell me, how exactly does Morgan get into position to make may of those ‘great passes’? How about most of her goals? Her most effective partner throughout her career was Wambach. Do you consider Wambach to be a good running mate?

          • HOFCToDi

            Tell me, how many goals did Christen Press score against the following Top 10 FIFA Ranked opponents in calendar year 2016:

            CAN, ENG, FRA, GER, JPN, JPN, FRA, SWE

          • Steglitz49

            In OG-12 it was HAO who crossed to Alex’s head. In the WC-12 final it was Rapinoe who passed to Alex for her 1-0 goal and it was Alex who crossed to Abby’s head in extra time. I can’t remember who passed to Alex for her goal against Italy in 2010 (Lauren? it may have been a flick-on header).

            Abby may have profited from Alex but it is not obvious how she reciprocated.

          • DNG

            Alex may have a good control on her headers and scored some great headed goals but in no way was she ever a dominant arial presence.

          • Steglitz49

            When you score such a header as Alex’s at that stage in a major SF in such an iconic stadium, you do not need to score another header in your life.

            You will be perceived as an aerial threat from then on for all time.

            Now that Abby has blotted her copybook, Alex’s header will be the US’s PR-header as well. Whether HAO will get a mention in dispatches is another question.

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press provides no aerial presence.

            Press has firmly cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

            garbage time
            prima donna
            selfish shot hog
            tomato cans

            FIFA Top Ten Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored
            Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 34
            Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
            Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3

            Press has yet to score a goal or register an assist versus a Top 20 FIFA Ranked opponent in calendar year 2016.

          • Chak Khan

            Did not Morgan say that she is lonely up the top by herself with Lloyd in the back of her?

          • HOFCToDi

            You are full of crap and don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

          • Steglitz49

            I doubt that Alex cares. She is well established as one of the biggest names not only in current but all WoSo, and her bank account reflects that.

          • kernel_thai

            I think Morgan tweaked something. Some people said she was icing her leg on the bench in the second half.

          • Jamie

            I think Morgan is better at the end of a game when the defense is tired. She basically does one thing – makes a breakaway run and hits with her left foot near goal. She isn’t good in a bunker situation. I’d rather have her off the bench than Press who can do more with a strong defense imo.

          • Steglitz49

            Alex can head the ball too and her right foot is not too bad either.

          • Jamie

            when was the last time she scored on a header? Her headers have been off when she has attempted them recently. Please keep up with current events.

          • Steglitz49

            Granted, Alex struck her 1-1 equalizer against Sweden with her left foot. verily, it was only with her left foot that she could have scored but Alex did score.

          • kernel_thai

            Against Thailand she had on with the left & one with right. She was played in and the other she took on. This is how she can score…she is wasted back to goal unless she is the provider.

          • DNG

            I think I said this in the Thailand article but both of those goals should have been dealt with by the Thailand defense. On the first Morgan made a poor pass to Lloyd that deflected off the Thailand player who couldn’t get rid of it before being dispossessed. The second goal was not a good take on and Alex is not a good take on player. Alex’s touch was loose and the second defender ran right past the ball missing the clearance. Alex is primarily a transition forward and not all that clinical.

          • kernel_thai

            Well, all of the goals should have been dealt with by Thailand. First goal Morgan’s pass was deflected and Lloyd got it back. Morgan made a great run and Lloyd a perfectly weighted pass. No one on this team moves as well without the ball as Morgan and possibly no one in the world. A lot of forwards wouldnt have started that run because Lloyd was still bobbing and weaving with the ball. Second goal Morgan nut megged the first defender but the touch was a little heavy and a second defender should have cleared it but didnt. Morgan got the ball back and scored with her off foot from a deep angle. In a perfect world I would want Morgan on the left and Heath on the right taking on in space and let Lloyd and Horan slug it out in the box. Then leave Press hanging at the top of the box for cut backs and balls that roll out.

          • DNG

            For the most part I agree. I’m just trying to get people to focus more on how players actually played instead of focusing on raw goal and assist statistics against an overmatched team. Lloyd’s numbers in these two games do nothing to change my opinion that her production is not worth a spot in a 23 woman roster. I thought she was terrible overall against the Netherland but she still ended the match with a goal and an assist.

          • kernel_thai

            I dont have a problem with Lloyd having a spot in the 23 or the 11 because she still produces. My problem is the role she has been given and how it hinders several other players on the roster who r much younger and being smothered.

          • Deb

            That is the problem with Lloyd’s role on this team. So many others are trying to adjust to playing with her on the pitch. I thought the team looked great earlier in the year when Lloyd was out injured.

          • HOFCToDi

            All you have done is spewed garbage on this message board.

          • Steglitz49

            That is a little bit harsh.

          • HOFCToDi

            FIFA Top Ten Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored
            Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 34
            Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
            Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3

          • Steglitz49

            The three Graces of US WoSo. Do you want to be Paris?

            They are all three jolly handsome. Syd has more curves granted but all are sights for sore eyes. The Huntsmen’s Ball awaits them but only Christen is in want of an escort.

          • HOFCToDi

            No one gives a damn what the “Press Gang Troll Brigade” has to say.

          • Don’t hate me

            I don’t agree with that Morgan has earn the starting position, and she wears the defense down.. but press comes in off the bench when the defense is weak and she can’t score

          • Steglitz49

            JE can’t afford to invest more in Press now. After New Year if not before, she has to phase her out.

          • mockmook

            At the NT level, I think Ohai is mid winger, wingback, or OB. If she improves her ball handling, maybe she can work into being a Forward.

          • Don’t hate me

            Maybe if she can get a call up they could work with her on ball handling. Because I don’t really know how many more mids we need.. lol

          • kernel_thai

            I dont think ull see Pugh again this year. They need to keep her focused on U20 cause that picture is looking dim.

          • Don’t hate me

            Yeah But I think will still try to bring her in when she can, but Pugh has the WC to work about

          • kernel_thai

            I think the 20s have an Oct camp then in Nov they head to Australia for pre WC prep.

          • Don’t hate me

            Who do you think will get called up?

          • kernel_thai

            I dont try and think like Ellis because Im afraid I’ll get brain damage. I would call in:
            F Lynn Williams, OM Kealia Ohai, CM Vanessa DiBernardo, OB Casey Short & CB Emily Menges.
            That spreads them out so they might get a chance.
            What I hope she doesnt do is bring in the ones from last time. She had months to evaluate them and any she wants to bring back can be brought in during Jan camp.

          • Steglitz49

            Syd and ARod will return so as not to forfeit their maternity pay but I doubt that either is too interested. They have more than enough medals each.

          • ABCDE

            syd is interested because she enjoys being famous. she won’t care if she is sitting on the bench all the time, which is why I hope she doesn’t make it. i don’t see her playing club without being on the NT, either. not enough glory.

          • Steglitz49

            Syd will do enough to keep and collect her maternity benefit and then move on.

          • Don’t hate me

            well she will play on club don’t you think?

          • ABCDE

            she has never shown commitment to her clubs… she has been awful for all of them

          • Don’t hate me

            Well she did come to KC because her husband plays for the mens team, maybe she will have a breakout year

          • Steglitz49

            she will play to keep any benefits

          • Don’t hate me

            but doesn’t the benefits end at the end of this year? I could be wrong.

          • Steglitz49

            I am not sure. It depends, no doubt, on the exact wording of the contract.

          • Don’t hate me

            But I think it is different for NT and club but I think both Arod and Syd get the benefits from the NT till the end of this year because they were on the team in the beginning of the year, but I could be wrong..

          • Steglitz49

            Fair enough.

            ARod and Syd should try broadcasting. They could work in tandem together.

          • Don’t hate me

            ha ha you just made me laugh… its funny but its the truth

          • ABCDE

            i think ARod would be a good coach. Sydney should call Andy Cohen.

          • Steglitz49

            Where do the ARods live? Which college or NWSL team might she coach?

          • kernel_thai

            I believe according to the CBA they have to be extending a new contract when they return from leave. I believe the USSF will try and keep playing by the expired contract if they can.

          • Lorehead

            The contract expires at the end of the year as well, and a new one hasn’t been written yet.

          • AlexH

            Speaking of the contract, given the way Pinoe is flouting the federation I wonder if the players are going to have anybody left on their side of the bargaining table.

          • Steglitz49

            Interesting. So, it is in ARod’s and Syd’s interest for the contract to expire?

          • Lorehead

            Then they wouldn’t get paid anything.

          • kernel_thai

            I would think so as as Dwyer plays in KC.

          • Don’t hate me

            Yeah I don’t think he will be getting traded anytime soon..

          • kernel_thai

            They had a transfer offer recently

          • Steglitz49

            Vow!

          • Don’t hate me

            I don’t think I knew that, wait was it one oversea? but if he does end up tranfering I don’t think she will play any more, or depending on where he goes she might still play. she probably will just have more kids, maybe…

          • guest

            leroux should have to prove herself in the nwsl for a year before a call back. she has been underperfoming for two years.

  • quest

    I saw Christen Press actually play defense last night.

    • Tenacity

      I saw the same at 71′. Deck’er (yes I purposely wrote her name that way because of the strategic takedowns she made in this game & I think she takes her name literally) pushed Press to the ground off the ball and Press got right back in front of her and dispossessed her. It was great!

      • Steglitz49

        It is good for the USWNT to play other teams that stand firm and hold the line against the US.

        I am always surprised how much harassment refs, not least the ARs, will put up with from the USWNT. High time to brandish those yellows, not just in the 110th min.

        • Tenacity

          You’re right. NL stood up to the US, and it was good for the team. There were some battles going on in this game. I saw Horan give #3 a good push in a set piece. I wondered if they were going to fight.

          • Tenacity

            Lloyd was looking for calls last night. While it may have frustrated her to not have some fouls called, it didn’t stop her from scoring. I couldn’t believe the ref didn’t stop the game to make her get her knee bandaged when I saw how bloody it was after her goal.

          • Steglitz49

            If they bleed, they must go off.

          • Chak Khan

            Wambach didn’t so why should anyone else?

          • Steglitz49

            It is a regulation. You can not play with a bleeding wound. It is just for the refs to enforce the laws of the game.

            In rugby you are allowed “blood replacements” but soccer has not accepted that arrangement.

          • Paul Klee

            Laws of the Game sec 7.6.37 states that “Carli Lloyd cannot be removed from a match for any reason whatsoever.”

          • kernel_thai

            Would it be legal for the medical staff to follow her around on scooter so they could suture her wounds as she played?

          • Paul Klee

            Well they really won’t have to follow her around, they could just station themselves in the opponents 18 yard box.

          • Deb

            Why not have the opposing goalkeeper take care of her wound? She’s usual standing right next her.

          • Paul Klee

            Great idea except that the goalie wears those huge gloves, but your on the right track.

          • Chak Khan

            LOL!

          • Chak Khan

            Was the game played on turf? I couldn’t tell from my NHDTV (non HDTV)?

          • Guest123

            They brought in grass specifically for this game.

    • Paul Klee

      She’s been doing it with greater frequency since the beginning of the year, it’s just that now she is becoming moderately effective at it.

  • Cale

    So it’s the third game in a row USWNT was either given a goal which shouldn’t be a goal or the opponent got a goal denied wrongly
    Random or systematic?

    • Don’t hate me

      hope it’s random… not systematic… I think they are still rebuliding

      • Steglitz49

        Lightning does not strike twice. As for thrice? Forget it.

        • Don’t hate me

          but I was surprised they gave the 2nd goal that was a foul on Heath it was clear, but those refs were pretty bad… so many fouls and just getting a talked to where it should be a yellow

          • Steglitz49

            Welcome to WoSo refereeing.

          • Don’t hate me

            well I am used to it, because they are horrible for the NWSL also

          • Just Asking

            Did you take into consideration that the other NL defender pushed Heath into the NL captain who was credited with the own goal? So that leaves the call to the discretion of the referee?

          • Don’t hate me

            I mean it was a tough one, I mean I am glad we got to goal, but there was a lot of foul and nothing called

          • JJ

            Are you the referee? Or just a die-hard USWNT fan?

          • Just Asking

            Sure I’m a USWNT fan, but I really just wanted the opinion of people on this board. Thanks Don’t Hate Me.

        • Hood

          2015 SF against Germany springs to mind. Anyone for Olympics 2012 against Canada.

          And wasn’t there a red card in the QF 2011 for Brazil when the USWNT needed it urgently?

          I guess we already have equal pay. The men players get all money which is considered for the men while half of the money for the women seems to be spend differently (just kidding – hopefully)

          • Ethan

            The red card was given to Buehler, and it was very debatable in my opinion. Brazil didn’t have a player sent off, they were lucky to get another chance at the PK on encroachment that’s very rarely called, and someone was offside on the buildup to Marta’s second goal.

            Tancredi should have been sent off in the Canada 2012 match when the score was 1-1, and she was the player who went on to assist Sinclair’s second. I think the poor calls evened out in that match.

            Maier should have been sent off for two yellows in the first half against the US, and some refs may have sent off Popp in the first half. If Popp had been sent off, she wouldn’t have been there to cause Johnston to give up a penalty. The US dominating that match from start to finish did help make the controversial decisions less important in viewers’ minds.

            Now, the Olympic 2012 final. Japan was very unlucky with refereeing decisions in that match.

    • kernel_thai

      Not sure u can blame the team for calls blown by officials.

      • Cale

        I can’t and I won’t

    • MurderOnZidanesFloor

      To be fair I think the goal in the first half when a foul was given should have stood. Not the Lloyd offside one, the other one.

      • Ethan

        I thought the keeper could/should have done better, but that was a world-class hit from Long. It did seem soft, but I would have to see it again to form a better opinion.

  • Gary Diver

    Jill Ellis Suggestion Box: Be Bold

    1. For November Friendlies (or even October Friendlies if time permits), call up Kealia Ohai, Shea Groom, and Emily Menges, Jealene Hinkle, Erica Skroski, and at least one from Rose Lavelle, Andi Sullivan, and Savannah Jordan.

    2. Leave Carli Lloyd, Christen Press, Julie Johnston, Ali Kreiger, Meghan Klinenberg, and one or two others from OG16 roster at home.

    3. Start the Emilies at CBs: Sonnett and Menges and give Skronski some quality on field time.

    4. Start Kealia Ohai.

    5. Try something new with Lindsey Horan that utilizes her talents better.

    6. Emphasize the transition game. Once USWNT gets the ball – MOVE FORWARD and not sideways for 15 seconds that always lets the opposition’s defense to set up.

    • Don’t hate me

      Do you really think Ellis will leave off 6 or 7 people from this last call up? I know she said that some might not get a call up every time, but that’s a lot I was thinking maybe one or two

      • ABCDE

        she’ll leave out Krieger and maybe Horan and Mewis.

        • Don’t hate me

          I think she will bring Krieger back to get her too 100 caps, I don’t know about Horan or Mewis.. some people say Long should be off but I don’t think so.

          • kernel_thai

            I could see Krieger, Long, Engen and Rapinoe not being brought in to October camp. I think with young players like Horan and Mewis u want them getting experience not resting.

          • Don’t hate me

            I think it also has to do with if someone is injury, I know Engen is dealing with a injuries, but I agree keep the younger people coming back, sonnett Mewis, Horan… I actually think Long is a good player and should keep getting call ups. Pinoe right now is a distraction and they don’t need that.. I feel Ellis will bring some new faces to the mix.

          • Steglitz49

            “some new faces” — a lot of new faces are needed; some is not enough.

          • Don’t hate me

            Yeah I agree, there is plenty of people out there that deserve a call up.. but we know Ellis has prob about 11 or 12 maybe more people that will always get a call up

      • Gary Diver

        O.K. do some in October and some in November. Then for the January camp everybody knows that they have to earn their spot and other will be allowed to challenge them.

        On the other hand, these are Friendlies, are they not? Ellis has the right to bring in whoever she wants and she needs to start working on a team that can play up its potential.

        • Don’t hate me

          Yeah you are right Jill has the right to bring who ever she wants and she has the right to leave off players, which that’s what I think she will do.. I’m just trying to think who she will leave off or bring in

    • Anon

      Ohai? Groom? give me a break. Neither of those two is in a league with any of the attacking players we have. I agree with Johnston and Klingenberg … their spots should be in jeopardy. It would be nice to see a game with Press and Morgan playing more together and Lloyd off the pitch, although I am a fan of hers.

      • ABCDE

        my guess is Ohai gets a call up and then gets McCaffreyed

        • Gary Diver

          For some reason McCaffrey lost her self-confidence. It was noticed by a number of observers. And she definitely had a self-confidence problem in Boston.

          • kernel_thai

            McCaffrey does one thing and does it very well but good defenders pick up ur tendencies and take that away. For McC to succeed she has to widen her game.

          • Guest

            Besides her first match against Brazil McCaf never looked good at all with the WNT. Think it was more that she had nothing to bring to the table than a confidence issue

        • kernel_thai

          It doesnt matter. U cant earn an NT spot in the NWSL or college or youth NT…all u can earn is a call in. U have to earn ur NT spot playing with the NT. To be honest at this point Id rather watch Ohai try and fail for a few matches than watch Rapinoe.

        • I actually think so too. She just seems unwanted by JE/ USSF Program. Which is weird cause of how huge she was for U20’s in 2012.

          • Steglitz49

            You could argue that Press got her spot in 2013 and then hung on for grim death in spite of her patchy performance. Press and Klings were alternates in London and played in WC-15 and OG-16.

          • Chak Khan

            Could it be that 1) JE is under pressure to bring on NWSL players just to show that she’s doing some call ups, but have no intention to keeping them; 2) These players are a threat to some NT ones. Who would want to be replaced?

      • Gary Diver

        Nobody know how well Ohai and/or Groom would play on the national team until they are on the national team. Let’s start treating Friendlies as friendlies and use them to test out new blood.

        • Steglitz49

          Groom has a reputation for foul play. It may be undeserved but influences refs. Give a dog a bad name and all that.

          • Gary Diver

            People are claiming she is becoming more careful with her tackles. If she can overcome a bad reputation, more the credit to her. And let’s not put her in the same boat as Melissa Tancredi (a.k.a. “The Tank”).

          • Arcie Tillydee

            I’m as big a non-fan of Groom as you could ask for, but I think she IS being a lot more careful. For one thing, that rep of hers can hardly fail to make it to the ears of the refs…and they’ve been watching her more closely, that’s obvious. Looks like she can learn.

          • Guest

            Does it even matter anyway? Did anyone see Lloyd in the NED match? Clattering into people from behind and then crying bloody murder to the ref whenever she was knocked off the ball? And Horan is not exactly gentle either. She was having a pretty significant shoving match on one of the corners that warranted much more concern than Shea Groom hard challenging a 50-50 ball

          • Steglitz49

            Lloyd ought to get booked early in a match but I guess being POTY teflon coats.

            Refs do not want to give her a second yellow and thereby have to dismiss her. therefore, they don’t book her till late in games. Against Sweden she got her yellow in the 110th minute. It ought to have been already in the 10th.

      • Gary Diver

        Now is the time for Ellis to think outside the box. Not 2018.

        • Guest

          Krieger is having a very good NWSL season…..

        • guest

          Krieger is in peak form right now. Lloyd hasn’t really played NWSL much but she has been pretty good in the games I saw and you can’t argue with her results on the NT. Dunn is also in kind of adifferent role on the Spirit and she’s assisting alot.

          • Gary Diver

            Ali Krieger has lost favor with Ellis and will be nearly 35 years old in 2019. If she is one of the best 4 OBs in three years fine, but it is highly unlikely given her age. And other younger backs should be given a chance to win Krieger’s spot on the roster.

          • tonysocref

            2016 has been nothing but a stat padding year for the entire USWNT. Only 4 of the 21 matches played so far this year have been against a top 5 team. Next 2 are against the #15. Yes CL has 15 goals, but only one of them have came against a top 5 team and that was against France in the OG. Her goals and a majority of her assists have come against teams ranked 32, 34, 26, 108, 48, 24, 29, 17, 32 and 12 at the time of the match.

          • Steglitz49

            Your phrase — “Only 4 of the 21 matches played so far this year have been against a top 5 team” — is not only bizarre but hogwash.

            This is because with the US ranked #1 there are only another 4 teams ranked #2-#5. You can’t play more teams than there are.

          • Ethan

            You could play a team twice though.

          • Steglitz49

            Playing Germany twice and England twice makes 4 matches. I doubt that France is worth playing except for the money.

          • tonysocref

            England, Germany and France twice. That makes 4 matches out of the 21.

          • Steglitz49

            an neither a turnip nor a Swede among them, let alone a coffeebean or brazilnut

            Why play France twice? Once is more than enough.

            The USWNT did play Japan twice, though, so not all is lost.

      • Steglitz49

        Forget Press.

      • kernel_thai

        If Ellis is going to play the system she played last night (faux 3-5-2) Ohai would be perfect in Klingenbergs spot. She can get the cross in, get to the end line to cross, step up and take the shot or take on in space. And there is the added bonus that Ohai can get back on defense. Now if u wanted to play 4 across the back then it doesnt work as well.

    • guest

      if you were going to call up a forward I would call up Williams, but the draw with Thailand is extremely concerning. Shows most of the NWSL players really aren’t in the same league.

      • Gary Diver

        Good, I also would like to see Williams get a shot to play with the big girls.

      • kernel_thai

        I have no problem with looking at Williams but I think she is a product of the WNY system more than u can just drop her in the NT system and watch her go

      • Ethan

        Interesting because that doesn’t align with a lot of people’s thinking here. In all seriousness, I don’t think it says too much because it’s only one match, and the Flash did have extreme scoring woes at the beginning of the season. Nevertheless, drawing against the team that the USWNT recently beat 9-0 still isn’t good. I’m not a big Lloyd fan, but I guess the Flash needed someone like her to win the match.

        • DNG

          I’m pretty sure they had a significant shot advantage going into half time. Mcdonald at least subbed out at the half but I’m not sure about the rest of the team. I didn’t see the game so I can’t know for sure but it could have just been a case of poor finishing.

          • Ethan

            Both Williams and McDonald went off at the half. The thing is though that Morgan, Press, and co would have been heavily criticized for not scoring against Thailand within a half of play, and Williams and McDonald are two names that have been commonly brought up in call up discussions. I know you can’t make generalizations based on one game, but that’s what posters on this site have done for every NT forward on multiple occasions.

          • DNG

            I’m not really saying it is a good thing that WNY couldn’t score against Thailand more that I don’t really know what happened and that judging by the shot advantage, they controlled the game.

          • Steglitz49

            Alex Morgan is for life; Christen Press is history.

          • NYRick

            Will you stop with this? It’s boring. Both will stay on the team to about age 30 and then move on. Expect both at the next cycle, with Morgan having the greater odds of course for being there and Press most likely wanting to stay that long. Whether she makes it or not will depend on her, but she is still considered a core player on the roster whether you want to accept that or not.

          • Steglitz49

            There is every chance that Alex will follow in ARod’s footsteps and do something else during 2017. Then she will play herself back into the NT for WC-19.

            What Christen will do is anybody’s guess. I doubt any alleged TV-deal will be there after Rio and certainly not as generous. Thus, she may have no choice but to play on but if she is deallocated, she may have to look for another revenue stream.

          • HOFCToDi

            Press has firmly cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

            garbage time
            prima donna
            selfish shot hog
            tomato cans

            FIFA Top Ten Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored
            Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 34
            Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
            Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3

            Press has yet to score a goal or register an assist versus a Top 20 FIFA Ranked opponent in calendar year 2016.

        • Guest

          They also had a completely new midfield since Erceg, Mewis and Sanderson were not there (after her early injury)

    • Guest

      I would add the Chicago quartet to your desired callups.

      • Gary Diver

        I agree that the “Chicago Quartet” should be given a chance to show what they can do on the national team. To the doubters I ask, “What does USWNT have to lose?”

        • mockmook

          What does USWNT have to lose?”

          The opportunity to try other players.

      • Steglitz49

        Who make up the Chicago Quartet?

        • Ethan

          I’m thinking Short, Gilliland, DiBernardo, and Colaprico.

          • Steglitz49

            I contend that Danielle Colaprico, fine player though she is, is too short for her position for the modern game. She would be considered a bit short in the Japanese WNT even.

            I have always had a soft sport for Vanessa DiBernardo. The other two seem fair enough to try out.

          • Ethan

            I watched Makelele dominate as a CDM for years at Chelsea, and Kante’s off to a good start at Chelsea after being hugely pivotal in Leicester’s title win last season. Height isn’t hugely critical if Colaprico can show great positioning, awareness, discipline, short and long passing ability, and tackling and interception ability at the international level.

          • Steglitz49

            DM not AM.

            You sound suspeciously like those that argue that it is worth carrying on with goalies 5’9″ and shorter when the future obviously is with the 5’11” and taller ones.

            Mana Iwabuchi is 5’1″ and Naho and Miyama are 5’2″, which seductively looks like supporting your argument but the average height of a Japanese girl their age is 5’2″ while for an American lass it is 5’4″ to 5’5″,.

          • Ethan

            Colaprico plays as a DM for the Red Stars, and she would play there for the NT if she got called up. Makélélé was a DM, and Kanté is a pivot DM.

            I am one of the people who argued with you about playing taller goalkeepers just because they’re taller. Proper positioning and technique are highly critical, and if goalkeepers are taller but no better in those two aspects, women’s goalkeeping is not going to get better.

          • Steglitz49

            Karsta Lowe and Candace Parker are both 6’4″ and Lisa Leslie was 6’5″. They may know nothing about your “proper positioning and technique” but I guess the could learn. Manuel Neuer is 6’4″ and the great Gordon Banks managed with 6’1″ so there is no law that require USWNT goalies to be 6’4″.

            The day that WoSo fans learn not to argue against the obvious, WoSo might start to advance.

    • HOFCToDi

      What a wimpy suggestion. Time for Sunil Gulati to take the USWNTPA to the sword. First, allow the current CBA to expire. Second, lock out the current members of the USWNTPA. Third, call up collegiate players and teenage prodigies.

      Jordan, Savannah
      Lavelle, Rose
      Andrews, Morgan or Shaffer, Alexis
      Pugh, Mallory
      Sanchez, Ashley
      Sullivan, Andi
      Gibbons, Christina
      Mills, Kayla
      Bauer, Maddie
      Freeman, Mandy
      Campbell, Jane

      allwhitekit.com/?p=15061#more-15061

      allwhitekit.com/?p=14973#more-14973

      Just think of the cost savings by only doling out per diem.

      • Gary Diver

        For the sake of argument, let’s assume Gulati follows your idea. There are some young USWNT players I would like to retain: Pugh, Dunn, Brian, Sonnett, and (I know you won’t agree) Horan. And most people would want to keep Morgan. But all of the rest can be replaced with younger models.

        • HOFCToDi

          Sunil Gulati has two major issues on his agenda, neither of which involve the USWNT.

          • Steglitz49

            Too true.

            Also, the USWNT won the WC under his presidency (or whatever his title is, Chairman?). Now he must focus on the men — which is where the money is and, some would say, the real glory. The Canadians call the men’s WC the “big” WC.

        • HOFCToDi

          Mallory Pugh has maintained amateur status and is not an allocated player.

          Time for the current members of the USWNTPA to experience a taste of their own medicine. Let the current members of the USWNTPA grovel for the bread crumbs the NWSL rank and file receive. Brings new meaning to the phrase “equal play, equal pay”.

          • Gary Diver

            Personally I do not think USWNT should be a tenure-style entitlement, but instead the roster should be chosen by merit from a pool of the best NWSL players. It should not be top-down, it should be bottom-up where spots are earned.

          • HOFCToDi

            Once again, Sunil Gulati has two major issues on his agenda, neither of which involve the USWNT.

          • #1Fan

            why a pool ? Will not happen though because the economics do not work

          • Lorehead

            For that to happen, the NWSL has to pay well enough that players who get cut don’t quit.

          • HOFCToDi

            Who cares? Let ’em quit. The USSF should only be concerned with the players who truly want to be on the USWNT regardless of pay.

    • HOFCToDi

      In its second season of play, the team found itself a true believer. In taking over the national team, Anson Dorrance had a ……
      youtube.com/watch?v=pkASh_mjIts
      3:40

    • HOFCToDi

      For you:

      barnesandnoble.com/w/das-reboot-raphael-honigstein/1121884184

    • Observed

      It would be easier and more likely to fire Ellis than to adopt your plan. Clearly, she sees nothing wrong with the present situation. They win. So what’s the great problem?

  • Gary Diver

    Counter-Attacks

    1. USWNT has been vulnerable to counter-attacks for a year and a half.

    The Netherlands match, the Swedish OG16 QF, the WC15 SF. USWNT could and probably should have lost to Germany in WC15 SF when Johnston pulled down Popp when got caught on a counter-attack.

    I predicted (in comments) before the Olympics that good teams should use a rope-a-dope strategy against USWNT and try to win with a counter-attack. So I wasn’t surprised that Sweden did to USWNT, but I was surprised that Ellis never seems to learn and the team still have counter-attack vulnerabilities. Why can’t Ellis fix this problem?

    2. On the flip side, how many times in the past two years has USWNT scored on a counter-attack? Ellis doesn’t seem to believe in utilizing that tactic. Whenever th USWNT back line gets the ball that waste time kicking it sideways for at least 15 seconds which allows the opponent’s defense to regroup and get setup. Attacking then the defense is not ready is the key to scoring on counters.

    • Guest

      They got counterattacked and scored on by Thailand for crying out loud. They can’t even defend a counter against THAILAND?!

      • Bottom Line

        9-0

        • Steglitz49

          The score with which the US beat Japan in 1999, the worst defeat ever for the Nadeshiko.

          Sweden’s loss of 1-5 to Brazil in Rio was their worst defeat.

  • Craigaroo

    Megan Rapinoe will be the 2nd highest rated player (after Carli Lloyd) in the new FIFA-17 by Electronic Arts, which is being released in the next few weeks. No word yet as to whether game players will have the option of having her kneel for the national anthem.

    • GNC

      This makes zero sense as Rapinoe literally sat out more than half of 2016. The highest rating should go to Heath.

      • Guest

        Wendie Renard is ranked 18th………. Something is wrong

        • Steglitz49

          Are the rankings position specific?

          Where is Jessica Samuelsson ranked? And Stina Blackstenius? Hedvig Lindahl?

          Sara Däbritz, DZ, or Melanie Behringer? (Seeing that ms behringer has asked not be selected for the NT any more, should she have a rank at all?)

          • Ethan

            On the men’s side, it is very difficult to get a high rating as a defender, but I don’t think the ratings are really position specific. Goalkeepers are rated very highly in FIFA17 though.

            Marozsan is an 86. Nécib Cadamuro isn’t in the top 20, and I don’t think she would have dropped out of the top 20 if she was still ranked. So, maybe that’s the case for Behringer. However, if Behringer is still going to play club football, I don’t know if she’ll still be ranked. Däbritz isn’t in the top 20, but if the Olympics factor in, her rating definitely should have gone up. No idea on the Swedish players, but Seger and Fischer are both in the top 20 at 85 and 86, respectively.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you.

            Who is #1? Marta, Carli or Alex? Hope?

          • Ethan

            Marta’s 3, Carli’s 1, and Alex’s 11. I completely forgot about Solo. It seems that her suspension and termination have taken her out of FIFA17.

          • GNC

            Hope was dropped from FIFA 16 in the days following her suspension.

          • Craigaroo

            I should’ve posted a link. Fox Sports has an article on the top 20 for the soon-to-b-released FIFA17. http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/gallery/who-s-no-1-fifa-17-s-top-20-ranked-female-players-091916

          • #1Fan

            FIFA its amn alternate universe . No reality to it AT ALL

          • Craigaroo

            As fans, we’re going to disagree, of course. It doesn’t seem horrible though.

          • Steglitz49

            I presume that it does not include the impact of Rio.

          • Craigaroo

            Simply don’t know. But who really stood out at Rio anyway? Who became a real star? As I mentioned below, although clearly some of the old stars are starting to decline, it’s not like a bunch of younger players have clearly overtaken them, becoming stars in their own right. This worries me a little.

          • Steglitz49

            Jessica Samuelsson in defense and Stina Blackstenius in attack are the obvious. (Lindahl was more than OK at stopping PKs and Lisa Dahlkvist acquitted herself with honors.)

            Among the Germans we have Sara Däbritz and Melanie Behringer (who is in FIFA 17 top bit) and Melanie Leupoltz.

          • Craigaroo

            thank you. But for example, Blackstenius didn’t even start most matches for Sweden. Kind of hard to expect EA/FIFA17 to rank her in the top 20 even if you prove to be right and she deserves to be. However, she’ll get a chance to shine again at the Euros next year.

          • Steglitz49

            Blackstenius scored the goal against the US (from off Lisa Dahlkvists pass) and the goal against Germany in the final.

            Jessica Samuelsson is outstanding. Usually plays RB. Got injured at the end of the match against South-Africa and thereby missed the first (1-5) match against Brazil and also the China match. Was back against the US.

            I presume the rankings take the big markets into account.

        • kernel_thai

          At least Sauerbrunn made a list.

        • Craigaroo

          Maybe. But it’s not bad that she made the top 20 as a defender.

          • Guest

            Yeah but Nilla Fischer was #10 I think

          • Craigaroo

            Fair point. I guess ‘Nilla’s getting some extra points for having been a top player longer (albeit as a mid in her earlier years). But not horrible to have both of them in top 20.
            ¶ I think what worries me more is how so many “older” players haven’t been replaced by younger players at the top even though they (the older ones) show some signs of decline. And yet I don’t think it’s obvious that younger ones have overtaken them. Seger and Fischer would be a good example for the Swedish side.

      • obo

        Heath and Marta at least have 5-star skills, making them probably the only women who can perform all the trick moves.

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  • Guest1

    Where is the combination play between Heath and Klingenberg? Kling just running up the field with no one combining with her now. Getting beat on counter by speed because were not playing the combos before that her Heath and Rapinoe use do. Might as well just start by defender. That’s what she is good at combing with the wide midfielder not defending. Tobin is not helping her as much on defense.

    • Guest3

      I agree. Might as well start a real defender if they aren’t going do that combo play then we will have another defender with some pace on field in case of bad turnover like Johnston heading ball back so we have a defender that can close down fast player.

    • DNG

      Are you talking about this match? Heath and Klingenberg played on opposite ends of the pitch when they were on the field together. Klingenberg being that high, right or wrong, was a tactical choice.

    • H

      She was playing Horan who is not wide player. She plays with Pugh now. Who is learning the position. She don’t play with Heath or Rapinoe much now.

  • Gary Diver

    USWNT NEEDS a Shake-Up

    USWNT badly needs a shake-up. It is in a rut. If Ellis called up Ohai, Groom, Menges, Skroski for the next Friendlies it would be a positive shake-up and everybody would benefit. USWNT needs to stop “staying the course” and give young players a chance while trying new tactics.

    Apparently Ellis is attempting to develop a new system for her team, but interestingly nobody understands it well enough to explain it to the rest of us. People can’t even agree what formations she is using and why she is using them.

    • ABCDE

      You do realize that sponsorship and marketing is an issue with doing these huge shake ups right? Our current players have the eyeballs of the fans. No one is going to care about new players until they win the next big tournament. That’s part of why the roster doesn’t turn over as much as expected in the 3 years between an OG and WC.

      • anon

        Yep. Sponsors want the players we have because they have the built in audience.

        • Steglitz49

          How many sponsors are there of the USWNT? Who are they? How little do they chip in?

      • Gary Diver

        That is a good point but the same situation occurred in WC15 which led to USWNT having the oldest team in the tournament. For most of WC15 USWNT did not play quality soccer. In fact, one could argue that referee decisions saved USWNT’s bacon. First the double suspensions of Holiday and Rapinoe forced Ellis to try some innovations which led to the Holiday/Brian pairing. And the gift from the soccer gods not to give Johnston a red card for pulling down Popp.

        China, Japan, Canada, England, and Germany are all turning to youth. If USWNT is the oldest team in WC19 the soccer gods will most likely not be kind two WC tournaments in a row.

        • htm222

          those countries operate under entirely different systems. US players peak later. PS, it’s not about age it’s about talent. picking an arbitrary cutoff age to cut a great player to bring in some college kid is stupid. especially given what a mess the current youth teams are. i’m all for fair competition and testing out some new players, but to cut someone who is still playing great soccer even though they’ll be in their thirties is ridiculous.

          • Steglitz49

            WoSo is a game for young players. There should at most only be one or two under 18 and hardly any 30 or more in the NT of big countries like the US. What Iceland and Norway do is their headaches.

      • Steglitz49

        Judging by the last two matches, the fans are voting with their feet. JE has a fine opportunity to rebuild for WC-19. She must take it. US WoSo will not put up with another 16 years in the desert.

        As long as the wealthy clubs and FAs in Europe continue to pump in money, Europe will become the main stage for WoSo and a win in WC-19 by a European or Asian team will have big consequences for the NWSL. Even a Canadian win will not offset the damage.

        • anon

          The issue is tactics and coaching, not players. Sure, let’s call up less talented players and plug them into the same system! Surely that will work!

          • guest

            the best team we have is this:

            Press Morgan
            Pugh Brian lloyd Heath
            KO Brunn JJ Krieger

            in the meantime:
            start grooming a new CAM to phase in instead of lloyd
            new backup CB: menges?
            start looking into alternative OB’s for KO and if Krieger shows decline
            Horan and Dunn sub up front

          • anon

            and a backup DM: colaprico?

          • Steglitz49

            Danielle Colaprico is a wee tad bit too short for a modern DM. Short by 4″ at least; OK, maybe 3″.

          • Steglitz49

            Forget Press.

            Pugh is still a project in making.

            Lloyd, Brunn, JJ, Krieger and possibly even KO need to be put out to grass.

            Dunn started her career at LB and she can go back and play LB for the NT.

          • htm222

            i would use dunn instead of pugh

          • Steglitz49

            Dunn is to go back to playing LB.

          • Arcie Tillydee

            Yes, Menges…who should, in fact, be starting. The only thing JJ is better at is scoring (low priority for a CB) and being mediagenic.

            CAM of the future should be Lavelle. The sooner the better…but Ellis doesn’t seem to like her.

          • mockmook

            Lavelle is good, but I’m not sure she is the “water dancer” that we need.

            Brian needs to be set free at CAM to see if she can get back to her college form as “quarterback”.

            Dunn, Horan, and Pugh are also possibilities.

            And, I’m keeping the torch burning for Racioppi — not ready yet, but time will tell.

          • FawcettFan14

            Way, way, way too early to claim that Ellis doesn’t like Lavelle. She is still in college, only 21 years old! She has been evaluated in a senior team camp, to me that is indication Ellis DOES like her. Getting consistent call-ups and caps as a high school/collegiate player (Brian, Pugh) has been the exception in the last 10 years, not the norm. Far too soon to write off Lavelle. In fact the Woso cycle is favorable to her. She is graduating college and (presumably) entering the professional ranks at the beginning of a new cycle. She has two complete NWSL seasons to make an impact before France 2019.

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press sucks. End of story.

          • FawcettFan14

            Broken records sure are annoying.

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press sucks. End of story.

            Christen Press
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals – 0
            Assists – 0

          • guest

            the problem with this lineup is that Lloyd isn’t disciplined about actually playing in the midfield. she considers herself a striker. so you end up with Brian stranded in the desert. I am a fan of what lloyd can bring but that’s why the formation has to be catered to her… uh… unique style.

          • Steglitz49

            The US won the U20 2012 WC in a manner which Sweden more or less used against them in Brasilia.

            I don’t know if any of the German players called the US cowards.

          • Chak Khan

            How do you know what vulgarities NTs call each other in the LOCKER room?

          • Steglitz49

            What players call each other on a team in their locker room is their privilege. What they call members of other teams in public can be subject to disciplinary action, as we have seen.

          • Chak Khan

            Everyone knows all NTs name-call each other. The difference is when it’s expressed publicly using the NON PC wording. Fans actually have more leeway in name-calling opponent teams.

          • Steglitz49

            “You can’t be serious?!” as the great player put it all those years ago

          • htm222

            you’re making too much sense

    • Guest

      Those four, then Colaprico, DiBernardo, Short, Gilliland for the next, and then Nairn, Lavelle, Killion, Dahlkemper, McDonald, Williams, Huerta for the next

      • anon

        Huerta is useless and McDonald is probably too old, fair or not.

        • Guest

          Well Lloyd will be 37, and they have no problem clearly bringing her despite her form being shaky, so what is the problem with bringing an in-form McDonald who is significantly younger? Who has continuously proven herself and has not slowed at all?

          • guest

            lloyd is a big money generator for the team, who still scores goals. she has been on the team for years. if they are going to bring in and develop a new forward, it’s going to be a very young player who will have more longevity.

          • Guest

            The next 3 years have no meaning to them. They should not only develop “a new forward”. Regardless of whether or not they intent to use her at WC19, they can at least give her a look since she has shown incredibly well on all the teams she has been shuffled around on. They should be experimenting significantly, and so they can bring in some older players who have earned looks in addition to the young crop that they bring in.

          • Steglitz49

            Why has she been shuffled around? Top players are rarely shuffled around.

          • qwest

            HAHAHAHA. Did you honestly just compare Lloyd to McDonald? That is way too funny.

          • Guest

            Reread and maybe you’ll understand second time through. And if that were what I was trying to do, I would have little problem doing it

          • Steglitz49

            Carli has the campaign medals going back to 2008 at least. She is the current POTY. They can phase Carli out in 2017 once the new POTY is known.

            Of course, they hope that Carli will phase herself out after her wedding.

      • Steglitz49

        Ms Huerta ought to go back to the Mexican WNT where she played as a junior. Maybe they won’t have her now?

      • kernel_thai

        I dont want to see anyone brought in last time especially not Lavelle being pulled from Wisconsin during the season. Ellis had many months and camps to evaluate Hinkle, Lavelle, Colaprico and McCaffrey last time. If she wants to bring them in for January thats fine but these next call ins should be new blood.

        • Breakers fan

          That would be great if she , Ellis, had that thought of “I know what I have in players I just recently brought in. I want to see new players or re-visit ones I haven’t seen for a couple years but have some hope for still.” Odds of that happening to the extent you and I are thinking? Small.

  • Steglitz49

    Sweden face Denmark tonight in the last Euro-17 qualifier. Sweden has already qualified and Denmark almost certainly will too.

    Sweden’s starting XI is (lilkely to be): (4–3–3) Hedvig Lindahl – Jessica Samuelsson, Amanda Ilestedt, Emma Berglund, Jonna Andersson – Caroline Seger, Lisa Dahlkvist, Emilia Appelqvist – Oliva Schough, Kosovare Asllani, Sofia Jakobsson.

    Bench: Hilda Carlén (gk), Magdalena Eriksson, Stina Blackstenius, Mimmi Larsson, Josefin Johansson, Hanne Gråhns, Pauline Hammarlund.

    Sweden spent all its budget on preparing for and participating in Rio. There is no money left for the rest of the year! The Swedish lasses will play Iran and then Norway before the weather gets too harsh and winter sets in.

    • guest

      Swedish cowards.

      • Steglitz49

        You’ve lost me but never mind. Not all WoSo federations have as much cash as the USWNT.

        • guest

          “Not all WoSo federations have as much cash as the USWNT.” Huh? Have you taken your ADD meds today?

          • Steglitz49

            As I typed, the chest is empty. The WNT has no money left. But that silver warms the cockles of the Swedish people’s hearts.

          • guest

            We’ll see how the “Swedish people’s hearts” feel when they are on their knees facing Mecca.

          • Steglitz49

            Que?! The USA causes mayhem in the Middle East and the European nations have to absorb the USA’s mess.

          • guest

            Europe “absorbed” the mess, ie, the migrants because their stalled economies need “growth”. Who do you think is gong to pay for your lavish retirement and social benefits? You are an ignorant European.

          • Steglitz49

            The USA is not, that is for sure.

            It is much harder for a refugee to cross the Atlantic than the Mediterranean or trek through the Balkans.

          • guest

            You chose to “absorb” the migrants to pay for your lavish social benefits. Stop trying to blame the US your own problems, eurotard.

          • Arcie Tillydee

            Next time you think it’s a good idea to inject politics into a sports discussion, do us all a favor and deep throat a 9mm instead, okay?

          • guest

            “deep throat a 9mm” I don’t even know what that is. You sounded like such a nice liberal lady with that name, too.

          • mockmook

            “I don’t even know what that is.” Tiny 🙂

            BTW, Arcie Tillydee appears to be the “late” David K Anderson — he made a big show of leaving this forum due to the politics — but, I guess he missed us after all (assuming my theory is correct).

          • Lorehead

            Doesn’t sound much like him, but he is RCTID.

          • mockmook

            Arcie’s instant and extreme reaction to encountering any politics here sounds like a continuation of David’s frustration.

            I’m also pretty sure David was a big supporter of Lavelle (ditto Arcie).

            But, it is more a gut instinct rather than an iron clad case.

          • Lorehead

            So, does the fact that one of our better contributors left in disgust make you reconsider your behavior?

          • Steglitz49

            Was he? My memory was that he followed Truman’s advice.

          • mockmook

            95% of the time, it is someone else who introduces politics here.

            Forgive me for not just rolling over — I know leftists cannot stomach any opposition.

          • Lorehead

            That’s one of those things that I think is about equally true of people in any party.

          • mockmook

            Somebody is creating the initial comments (often the EQ itself).

          • Lorehead

            Look, you post the exact same political rant about abortion in every thread on The Equalizer. Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

          • mockmook

            Uh, didn’t the EQ run about 6 or 7 articles on Rapinoe? And, we will have to endure more.

            Then, there are all the pro-Rapinoe comments throughout.

            My “protest” has done an admirable job in showing how annoying the introduction of politics is into things you view for entertainment — perhaps Rapinoe, the EQ, and the other commenters MIGHT get a clue.

          • Lorehead

            Let’s do a bit of arithmetic. You bring up abortion in every thread. You yourself say you do it solely to be as annoying as Megan Rapinoe (or Tim Tebow, although your view on his displays doesn’t strike me as very consistent).

            Are there an average of twenty or more political arguments per thread? If not, you start, completely unprompted, more than 5% of the political arguments here. Therefore, you start more of them than you realize.

          • mockmook

            “You yourself say you do it solely to be as annoying as Megan Rapinoe”

            Lying again.

            —————–

            Also, my 6 or 7 “protests” are a response to the EQ’s 6 or 7 propaganda pieces.

          • Lorehead

            My “protest” has done an admirable job in showing how annoying the
            introduction of politics is into things you view for entertainment —
            perhaps Rapinoe, the EQ, and the other commenters MIGHT get a clue.

          • mockmook

            That’s not what you said I said — I’ve clearly overestimated your intelligence.

          • Lorehead

            I’ll let others be the judge of that. My reading is that you were attempting to be as exactly as annoying to others as Rapinoe’s protest is to you, so we could see how it feels.

          • guest

            maybe there is a compromise to be made. he makes his personal protest everytime there is a megan rapinoe protest article.

          • guest

            in the megan rapinoe protest article.

          • Steglitz49

            I don’t think so. It does not sound like him.

          • Lorehead

            Contrary to your stereotypes, immigrants make up the same percentage of Sweden’s population as America’s, 14.3% (according to the OECD).

          • guest

            Europe suffers from low fertility rates (average 1.5) and high social spending, while the US has more fertility, and less social spending, so they need the migrants more than we do. Don’t blame Americans for your own problems.

          • Lorehead

            I am an American, and Sweden has a higher fertility rate than the U.S. (again, according to data from the OECD).

          • Steglitz49

            Might be explained by those 19% from abroad.

          • Lorehead

            The U.S. has just as high a percentage of immigrants, though, and most are Catholics.

          • Steglitz49

            You typed 14.3% before. Which number do you believe in? There is a big difference.

          • Lorehead

            I cited the source for my numbers; what’s the source for yours? The statistic varies considerably depending on which year and which definition you use.

          • Steglitz49

            There is going to have to be a 2nd Marshall Aid lest there will be more bombs in the USA.

            Northern-Ireland survived but don’t expect anyone else to put up with so much mayhem, least of all the American people.

          • Steglitz49

            The figure is 19% for Sweden, not 14%. For Norway and Denmark it is about 7% and for Finland 1%.

            The big difference between the US and Europe is the large % of muslims in European countries, almost all recent arrivals. Another difference is that the few muslims in the US are from the good and upper middle classes while in Europe they are from the lower echelons.

          • Gary Diver

            “The USA causes mayhem in the Middle East and the European nations have to absorb the USA’s mess.”

            Agree, but watch out! Americans are slow to learn from their past mistakes. Actually they never learn. In the past 100 years the US has gone through a number of cycles of military adventurism followed by retreat and isolationism followed by another cycle.

            Trump is trumping the idea that Obama is soft on Islamic fundamentalism and he promises to institute a full-court press if elected president. Americans have learned nothing from Vietnam and a large fraction of Americans now want to take up the gun and police the world. That approach was untenable and a disaster during the 1960s and will again be a disaster if Trump becomes president. The limits of American adventurism in the world has always been determined by the number of body bags returned home. If Trump and his followers think that the world will be safer if American troops are actively involved in 20+ countries there is no hope for the near future.

            What is most shocking is American ignorance and stupidity of the outside world. Americans did not understand Vietnam or Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War. The idea that most Vietnameses saw Americans as the replacement of the French and hated them for being on their soil and supporting unpopular governments in the 1960s was foreign to most Americans.

            Fast forward to Afghanistan in the Soviet invasion era. Most Americans could not even tell you where Afghanistan was on the map or why it was important to America, but that didn’t stop Americans from getting involved.

            Probably less than 10% of Americans know that the Americans and the English put the Shah on the throne in Iran for their self-interest, not for the interest of the Iranian people who had no say in that takeover of Iran after WWII.

            In the Iraq quagmire going back to the first George Bush, most Americans can’t tell you the difference between Sunni and Shiite Moslems or who’s who in Iraq. Why do 1/3 of Americans still think Saddam Hussein was responsible for the September 11 attacks? Ignorance is bless when you want to your finger in every foreign pie. The only things Americans really want is to be feared, obeyed, and to be free to make money off of other people while being able to invade their cultures with American commercialism.

            At a time when anti-Americanism is at a all-time high, further American adventurism will stroke further anti-Americanism. Americans should listen to the wise words of Franz Kafka: “

          • guest

            Yeah, but who fought on the right side during the Vietnam War?

          • Gary Diver

            Who paid the price? 50,000 Americans died and nearly 1 million Vietnamese died in the Vietnam War. Even during the Vietnam War the issue of how many Vietnamese lives were worth one American life was debated on American campuses.

          • guest

            You want me to total up the dead in WWII? Was that worth it?

          • NYRick

            Google answer:

            Over 100,000 American military personnel died in the Pacific War. World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history in absolute terms of total dead. Over 60 million people were killed, which was about 3% of the 1940 world population (est. 2.3 billion).

            That’s just WW2. You see why some of us get pretty pissed off about the flag being disrespected? And yes, she is being disrespectful any way you want to slice it.

          • Steglitz49

            It is often said that WW2 was won by the Red Army, the US Navy and the American industrial complex, and a few brave British airmen (and a fat pensioner with a cigar).

          • Lorehead

            “By British brains, American brawn and Russian blood.”

          • Gary Diver

            Who won wars is a matter of dispute. Americans have a delusion that they won every war. In the US, Americans are taught that the Battle of New Orleans won the War of 1812. But Canadians are taught that the invading Americans were pushed back and defeated during the War of 1812. Americans believe they made “the world save for democracy” in WWI. In fact they only showed up during the last year when everybody else was exhausted. As far as WWII, Americans lost 400,000 dead and the Soviets lost over 20 million dead. So Soviet sacrifices were around 40 times that of Americans. A factor of 40 is not large, it is gigantic.

          • Steglitz49

            Antony Beevor would contend that the T34 tank won the war. Others would say that the Russian general who convinced Stalin to let him simplify and streamline manufacturing did his bit too.

            To understand the fate of small countries during the second world war, you need the full picture. Once you have that, it is easy.

          • Gary Diver

            Here is the question that I’ve always wondered. During the 1940s, there must have been sober discussions in Sweden about what would happen the “day after” – the day after Germany won the European war. Certainly Germany winning the war in Europe was a good possibility. If clear thinking Swedes felt that they had nothing to worry about and the Third Reich would just let them be, I would find that troubling. And by 1943 all neutrals had to know what Germany was doing in their occupied lands. Were Swedes willing to live on their knees rather than die on their feet?

          • Steglitz49

            This is a very complicated question and you need to be able to read and speak Swedish to work your way through all the material.

            The problem today is that very few of those who were affected by those years are alive, let alone those with insight and maturity. If you were 13 in 1939 you are 90 today.

          • Gary Diver

            Thanks for giving a stab at answering this difficult question that I’v often wondered about. (My wife’s mother is Swedish on one side and Norwegian on the other.)

            Every country has awkward episodes of history that are hard to explain and/or understand. Long after the Civil War, conservative Americans convinced themselves that “separate, but equal” was a fair and just way of dealing with race issues. Of course everybody knew that “separate, but equal” legitimized segregation and in practice was “separate, but unequal”. I am sure a lot of Trump’s supporters wouldn’t have any problem with going back to “separate, but equal”.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you. The practical issue is that Swedish is a language spoken by <10m people while most of the history of WW2 and the events leading up to it has been written by native English-speakers, often with their own agendas.

            It was not till Reagan spoke at the Normandy beaches that people started to notice what the Soviets did in WW2. Maybe Antony Beevor's "Stalingrad" helped too.

          • mockmook

            Democrats instituted “separate but equal”.

            But really, what is the point of all these political posts on a soccer forum? Other than the EQ itself, you are the main offender in introducing off-topic politics here,

          • Lorehead

            No, the author of the Plessy v. Ferguson decision was a Republican. It is true that there used to be conservatives, progressives and racists in both parties.

          • mockmook

            Segregation was primarily a Democrat party policy — Republicans were for the idea of restoring Rights to blacks — the party was founded on that principle.

          • Lorehead

            An intellectually-honest person would acknowledge that the Republican party has supported plenty of racist policies too. Did some Democrats support segregation in the past? Certainly—but that was more than fifty years ago.

          • mockmook

            Hah, there are colleges that are re-introducing segregated doms so that minorities are more “comfortable”. Hint: Republicans don’t run these universities.

          • Lorehead

            I think you should make more of an effort to read what people who disagree with you actually believe. You take right-wing propaganda way too seriously.

          • mockmook

            Is it happening or not?

          • Lorehead

            It’s an urban legend. Right-wing news sites often fail to check their facts or correct falsehoods.

            The one university in the U.S. that really has imposed racial segregation has been Bob Jones University, which is run by a conservative Republican.

          • mockmook

            “Jonathan Thomas, a participant of the Cal State housing program, known as the Halisi Scholars Black Living-Learning Community, told the local CBS station that the new housing created a feeling of inclusion.”

            Right. Orwell is dead and not well.

          • Lorehead

            Did you even read the story? The story that the new housing was racially segregated is false. Certainly, it is nothing like the segregation you referred to before, where white people and black people were required to live apart.

          • mockmook

            Obviously, you don’t know what “Orwellian” is either.

            Hint: 1984 wasn’t meant to be an instruction manual on constructing a society.

          • Lorehead

            Look, the story you believed and repeated is not true.

          • mockmook

            Do you think any “normal” white/asian/hispanic/etc person would feel welcomed to live at the Halisi Scholars Black Living-Learning Community?

            Gee, and I thought the mere perception of hostility was the standard that leftists want to use.

          • Lorehead

            Why wouldn’t they? Also, what do you mean by “normal?” Is there anything wrong with the kind of person who would?

          • mockmook

            You don’t understand humans (we have established that).

            Humans feel excluded/unwelcome when an organization/community sets itself up as based on one race (black, in this case).

          • Lorehead

            Which is why Cal State LA doesn’t say that; it says, “This community of students is interested in Pan-African history, culture and current affairs.”

          • Lorehead

            Anyway, you sidetracked the conversation here because you falsely equated Halisi to Jim Crow and tried to argue that Democrats are the Real Racists. But it is not, in fact, restricted to black students. Certainly no one is going to force black students into separate housing, which is what most people would think when they heard your claim.

          • Lorehead

            Also, he said “conservative,” not Republican. In the 1890’s, those were not synonymous.

          • Lorehead

            Jingoism is silly. A lot of wars the U.S. has been achieved a result essentially the same as the status quo ante bellum, but at an extremely high cost in lives and money. I don’t think any Americans deny that we lost the wars in Vietnam and Iraq, though. Some very stupid partisans insist that we had “won” in Iraq when George W. Bush when he signed an agreement to pull all our troops out, and that decision is what caused us to lose, but that’s just because they don’t know it was George W. Bush and not Barack Obama who agreed to pull out the troops. The very stupid partisans who think similar things about Vietnam are mostly dead by now.

          • Lorehead

            She wasn’t protesting against veterans or people who died in wars, though.

          • Anon

            I’d be hard pressed to say there was a “right” side, but I do not the US was on it. Why not ask a vietnamese person?

          • mockmook

            It was Hillary/Obama who intervened in Libya (and got our ambassador killed).

            It was Hillary/Obama who intervened in Syria — drew red lines, then erased them.

            It was Hillary/Obama who added troops back into Iraq.

            It was Hillary/Obama who continued the war in Afghanistan, bombed a hospital full of innocents — run by Doctors without Borders.

            It was Hillary/Obama who regularly used drone strikes throughout the region.

            Etc.

            Trump wants to kill ISIS and call it a day.

          • Gary Diver

            Trump always wanted a Purple Heart. Too bad he didn’t one.

          • Steglitz49

            “Bad feet” were a commonly used excemption at least around 1972. How that one worked I could never figure out. It is not like diabetes or epilepsy after all.

          • Gary Diver

            “Bad feet” syndrome is definitely an eye roller. Trump’s case don’t pass the smell test. During the 1960s every American male was required to have a medical exam once they reached draft age and the results were sent to the draft board. So before going to college Trump’s feet were fine, during college Trump’s feet were fine and then suddenly when he was about to lose his college deferment Trump suddenly developed “bad feet”.

            P.S. I grow up in America during the Vietnam War and Trump’s comment that he “always wanted to get a Purple Heart” is a typical Trump wackadoodle comment. It is similar to saying “I always wanted to die for my country”. I never met anybody in the 1960s who wanted to “get a Purple Heart”. And my father warned me when I was a kid that the worst warmongers were old people who deliberately avoided serving in the military when they had the opportunity. Witness Trump.

          • Steglitz49

            “Onward … with our great commander safely in the rear”, sang the soldiers of WW1. They say that one reason that leonard Cheshire was so respected was that as CO he flew real dangerous missions, not just the easy ones.

            “You do not win wars by dying for your vountry. You win them by making the other guys die for theirs.”

            Those, who got the DSO or MC or DFC etc, never talked about it. I never knew someone with a VC to their name, though there may have been one that kept silent.

          • Gary Diver

            The immortal second quote came from George S. Patton. He used a different term for “other guys” which the EQ software will probably cut me off.

          • Steglitz49

            The EQ censored a quote of Harry Truman’s from me. I expect you can guess which one.

          • Chak Khan

            Then why not they support them financially?!! Everyone wants something good for free. Cowards are those.

          • Steglitz49

            As far as I know, in Sweden private individuals support their local WoSo teams financially as much as they can afford.

            This is why the landscape of club WoSo has been changing over the past 5-10 years. The lasses who play for the WoSo teams of the wealthy men’s clubs have described how much better their training facilities are, how more luxurious their team busses are (they clubs own them and have their own drivers) and how better hotels they stay in. The pay is, of course, much better, not just better, but much more.

          • Chak Khan

            Hence, there is a need for equal play equal pay for the NT. Clubs are private; therefore…

          • Steglitz49

            the USWNT and the NWSL must find a formula that suits them.

            Let’s wait and see who if any USWNT members go abroad to play next year.

  • Gary Diver

    “Megan Rapinoe’s Protest Leads to Division On and Off the Pitch” by Victor Mather, New York Times

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/sports/soccer/megan-rapinoe-anthem-protest-dividing-us-fans.html?_r=0

    This article appeared today on the front page of the sports section of The Globe and Mail, Canada’s national newspaper. Interestingly they did not acknowledge that the article originated from the The New York Time until the end of the article. So this is what the Canadian press has reported. Any reports from England, France, or Sweden?

    • NYRick

      Interesting in the photo from the NYT story link you provided that Press is not holding her hand to her heart during the anthem. Very unusual. She always had in the past and sang the lyrics silently as well. Harris with hands folded but standing looks to be making a quasi gesture of support to Rapinoe as well.

      Maybe I’m reading into it too much, but Press and Harris were the only starters/subs during the anthem, aside from Rapinoe, who didn’t put their hand to heart. Press has bi-racial parents and by all indications this year gay as well, but I would be hugely disappointed if she was being subtle by making a statement here. And Harris is certainly a person who is openly out and may be also not quite knowing how she wants to approach it too.

      As I and many on here have said, they can do what they want. But if you aren’t going to respect the flag and anthem while wearing a US jersey you have absolutely no business being on the team.

      • Chak Khan

        1) Douglas was dragged through hell for not placing her hand on her heart during the national anthem. I have noticed many others who did the same and not a bleep about them.
        2) Lloyd does not even lip-sync the anthem.
        3) A whole bunch of audience don’t take their hats off, busy selfie-ing (is that a word?), chatting, dancing, laughing, etc. during the national anthem. Not a bleep.
        4) Last but not least, some of the singers are horrible. No complaint of disrespecting the national anthem.

        • NYRick

          1) Douglas was wrong, but I don’t really think it was intentional. An Olympic team member should put their hand on heart. You are free to disagree.
          2) I don’t care if they lip sync, just stand at attention and put your hand to heart
          3) The audience may be wearing US garb and scarves, but they are not players representing the US for their national team. They are under no obligation other than to be somewhat respectful during the playing of both countries anthems.
          4) Have you ever heard Rosanne Barr’s version? Now that was either drunk or disrespectful. Google it for a laugh.

          • Gary Diver

            Do you really believe putting your hand over your heart makes one a better American? That is like saying going to church makes one a better Christian.

            Actually this is both silly and sad. I am well over 50 years old and this is the first brouhaha I can recall about hand over heart. The fact is that the anthem code applies to everybody not just athletes and in the past events I’ve gone to a very large fraction of the audience stood without hand over heart. And in fact until the last month I never heard of the anthem code. The sad part is that Abby Douglas was singled out by social media when not one white athlete was called out for doing the same thing. And worse, white people thought it was funny when Michael Phelps was giggling during the national anthem.

          • NYRick

            I am not aware of any anthem code. I go to plenty of sporting events and have never been handed a flyer upon entrance talking about an anthem code for me during the US national anthem. So “hand over heart”, I’m sure there have been plenty of times I simply stood silently at attention during the playing without holding hand to heart. Point is, no fan is obligated to do that as I have stated. However some out of patriotism and love for the country do which is fine.

            But…our issue as it pertains here is in regard to players who are members of the US national team and represent the country in a given sport. I would feel the same way if there was a US national backgammon team and the anthem played before the game. The camera is on the “athletes” during the anthem for a specific reason. Why not just pan the crowd instead? Reason, how an athlete represents their country is far more interesting and telling. For instance during the recent Euros, I saw nearly all the Euro teams lock arms (starting 11) and sing passionately together during the playing of their anthems. But for the horrible and bad US, it’s a bad thing to call out wanting the players to show pride and patriotism for the privilege and honor of representing their country. For heaven sake, have you ever seen the large banner they hang in Anfield before Liverpool matches, something to the effect of the honor it is to wear the jersey. A club team can have that type of passion but a country as rich in tradition and world prominence like the US can’t?

            Rapinoe is wrong. And oh by the way, viewership in the NFL has been down 10-15% the first two weeks. Coincidence? I think not.

          • Gary Diver

            “United States Code, 36 U.S.C. § 301, states that during a rendition of the national anthem, when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart; Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present and not in uniform may render the military salute; men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; and when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed. Military law requires all vehicles on the installation to stop when the song is played and all individuals outside to stand at attention and face the direction of the music and either salute, in uniform, or place the right hand over the heart, if out of uniform. A law passed in 2008 allows military veterans to salute out of uniform, as well.[48][49]

            However, this statutory suggestion does not have any penalty associated with violations. 36 U.S.C. § 301 This behavioral requirement for the national anthem is subject to the same First Amendment controversies that surround the Pledge of Allegiance.[50] For example, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not sing the national anthem, though they are taught that standing is an “ethical decision” that individual believers must make based on their ‘conscience.'”

            – Wikipedia, “The Star-Spangled Banner”

          • NYRick

            The code is interesting and thanks for the background info on it. But I honestly think that most people (fans) when entering a stadium and await the playing of the anthem simply stand and/or put hand to heart because: 1) out of respect and living in the US and being exposed to media, peer pressure and other factors…feel it’s simply the right and proper thing to do.
            2) Patriotic or military/police families strongly feel the need to honor the flag/anthem 3) it’s something taught in school systems or kids growing up as sports fans have always seen it as the thing to do.

            I seriously doubt if people know the code, and of course it can by no means be enforced in stadiums ranging from 10-80k in attendance. My gripe is with a national sports team member showing disrespect (however you want to interpret that). I don’t give a toss for their personal grievance or perceived platform, I just want to watch the sporting event. And if they seriously have a big problem (with anything regarding US policies or the flag in general), simply have the moral standards to decline to play for your country. There are plenty who would eagerly jump into your place.

      • mockmook
        • NYRick

          OK thanks for the follow-up. Good to see. The NYT photo from the story seemed to show otherwise.

          I know you feel like I do. Get Rapinoe (I refuse to ever again call her by her nickname again) the hell of this team. Immediately if not sooner.

          • mockmook

            So far, the player ending up beside Rapinoe (Alex and then Dunn) looks like they are being tortured — not happy campers.

          • guest

            i wish the tv camaras wouldn’t even show rapinoe kneeling down on tv anymore and just show the starting players, so rapinoe doesn’t get the attention she wants. but if that happened, i’m sure rapinoe would go off on one of her free speech homophobic conspiracy rants again. but i guess tv ratings come first.

          • Lorehead

            There’s this bizarre reaction out there, by people who can’t find fault with the idea of athletes making political or religious statements in and of itself (Tim Tebow?), to insist that every protest they disagree with is individually illegitimate, and that that each athlete involved has some ulterior motive.

            In this case, nonsense: Rapinoe joined her whole team in protesting together on September 2011, didn’t she? And, for example, the Howard University cheerleaders all protested as a team too. So, no, it’s not about getting individual publicity.

      • Paul Klee

        Are you friggin insane? When I was watching on TV, Christen Press had her hand over her heart and was at least mouthing the words. Everyone but Rapinoe was. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/23a725338e90ff1cf70e9640718b4164e4b8708785a33a950493bc586ad87765.jpg

        • Steglitz49

          If you did not block MocMook you would know that the issue has been dealt with 4 hours ago, including with the same picture.

  • Gary Diver

    Why Do the Russians Care that Christine Sinclair Took Banned Drugs During OG08?

    In today’s The Globe and Mail there is a major article by Cathal Kelly about Russian hacks (Fancy Bears) who has leaked WADA files on Canadian WoSo players.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/kelly-leaked-records-prove-a-key-flaw-for-wada-is-transparency/article31961455/

    “Four core members of the double-bronze-medalist Canadian women’s soccer team, including captain Christine Sinclair, were granted Therapeutic Use Exemptions (TUEs) to take a banned asthma medication that can expand lung capacity.

    The exemptions were all granted within a week of each other in the period leading up to the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing. There is no suggestion the players broke any rules. On Monday, the players – Sinclair, Melissa Tancredi, Sophie Schmidt and Rhian Wilkinson – became the first Canadians named in documents released by the Russian cyber collective, Fancy Bears.”

    Why do the Russians care? There are five reasons that the Russians care about Canadian WoSo players: two involving payback and two involving Maria Sharapova.

    1. Dick Pound who is the face of WADA, its first president, and a strong critic of state-sponsored sports cheating by Russia is Canadian.

    2. Richard McLaren who found that 11 positive doping cases of Russian footballers were made to disappear is Canadian.

    3. Maria Sharapova was found taking a drug that was not banned until recently and has attempted to claim she should have been granted a TUE for a heart condition. The Russians are implying that Sharapova’s situation is similar to Sinclair’s except Sharapova forgot to get her doctor’s note.

    4. Sharapova’s Court of Arbitration for Sports appeal of her punishment will be announced in two weeks. The Russians would like to influence that decision.

    5. The Russians are attempting to conflate issues involving TUEs for banned substances with the issue of state-sponsored sports cheating.

    Two legitimate issues that the hacked materials suggest:

    1. It is suspicious that 4 Canadian players were granted TUEs within one week of each other. Did Sinclair and the others have a documented history of asthma and was the 2008 TUEs the only ones they asked for.

    The drug involved definitely is a performance-enhancing drug and studies have shown that athletes who take this drug outperform athletes who do not take it.

    2. WADA needs more transparency in their decisions involving exemptions for banned drugs.

    Excuses for taking banned drugs are creative. Here is another Cathal Kelly article.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/more-sports/kelly-whether-true-or-false-maria-sharapova-teaches-all-cheaters-a-lesson/article29066819/

    “Amongst the more notorious excuses tried out for size by famous athletes – enemies spiked my drink; I ingested nandrolone by eating too much nandrolone-laced veal; saboteurs massaged a mystery cream into my buttocks; I only did all that coke because my girlfriend really likes coke; I kissed someone who does coke; What’s coke?”

    This reminds me of college students who when caught plagiarizing are now claiming that the paper that they turned in was not the paper they intended to turn in.

    Sharapova’s case will come to a head in the first week in October when the Court of Arbitration for Sports announces its decision.

    Here is some background to this decision (article also by Cathal Kelly).

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/tennis/kelly-peds-are-banned-unless-you-have-the-right-doctors-note/article31920205/

    “Sharapova got out ahead of the story by admitting what she’d done in a media-conference setting before her test results could be announced. She took the since-discredited line that the drug was being used to treat a heart ailment. This was before it became clear that a passel of Russian athletes – everyone from individual Olympians to an entire junior hockey team – curiously shared the same affliction.”

    • Steglitz49

      The asthma medication is topical (sic) currently because of revelations about the Norwegian X-country skiing team.

    • Lorehead

      So, basically, Christine Sinclair followed the rules and did nothing wrong. Good to know.

      • Gary Diver

        I guess, but it is strange that 4 central players get the same TUE within the same week for the same drug. I wonder if that was 1/3 of the starting XI for Canada in 2008?

    • Lorehead

      To answer one of your questions: two of the Canadians had applied the previous year as well, and the reason they reapplied in the same week was that their exemption had been good for one year.

      • Gary Diver

        The question I have is whether WADA should be more transparent with their TUEs. In this case the drug has proven to be a performance enhancement drug in that studies show that athletes who use the drug perform better than athletes who do not use the drug. If I was an athlete I would like to know if my competitors were using a drug know to have performance benefits.

        • Lorehead

          But players with respiratory illnesses do worse. Maybe their disclosure policy could be improved, although what about medical privacy, but it’s not as if this is a scandal. If we start objecting to this sort of thing: Lio Messi got to take HGH because he was born with a deficiency.

          • Gary Diver

            Please don’t get me wrong, I am not complaining Sinclair or CSA did anything wrong. The issue I brought up is a general concern for better transparency in the process to improve the confidence that everybody is being treated fairly. The Russians are definitely using this hacked material to undermine WADA’s authority and credibility and to try and help out Sharapova.

          • Lorehead

            Yeah. I’m not sure how you do that and protect medical privacy.

          • Gary Diver

            Some degree of medical privacy may have to be sacrificed for a greater good. The Russians are now claiming that secrecy is being used to protect athletes from countries that have a grudge against Russia. We know that is not true, but in the Internet Age truth and persuasion don’t go hand in hand.

          • Lorehead

            If anything, what this hack makes me think is that, if this information does get made public, somebody’s going to use it to make baseless accusations of cheating against athletes they dislike.

          • Steglitz49

            The issue is that asthma medication has been prescribed to healthy people in other sports.

      • Steglitz49

        The reason asthma medication gets attention is because of the revelations around the (managers/medics/trainers of the) Norwegian X-country ski team

  • Craigaroo

    TV ratings on FoxSports1: 243,000 viewers (105,000 – 18 to 49 age group). Looks like okay numbers, competitive numbers, on a busy TV day. Looks like NASCAR crushed it on cable. Good numbers for Premier League when it comes to soccer, even on CNBC (not normally a sports channel). Source: SportsTVRatings https://sportstvratings.com/nascar-sprint-cup-chicagoland-nfl-countdown-yankees-red-sox-top-cable-sports-tv-ratings-for-sunday-september-18-2016/

    • Chak Khan

      What was the number of attendance at the game?

      • mockmook

        15,652

        • Steglitz49

          Only 350 less than the estimate for planning purposes, but still 350 less, that is a small loss in the projected accounts.

      • Craigaroo

        15,652 (source US Soccer). Ah, I just saw mockmook already answered it. Almost right on the average for the year (home attendance only)

  • Chak Khan

    Now that the game with NED has been analysed to death. What are the opinions/predictions for the upcoming game against SWI?

    • MurderOnZidanesFloor

      Switzerland have some very talented players but they have a little less strength across the board than Netherlands. They are also less organised defensively from what I’ve seen. I suspect the US will despatch them a little easier, although any side with Bachmann and Dickenmann is likely to cause some problems going the other way.

      • Steglitz49

        Dickenmann is getting a bit long in the tooth. The Swiss are too inconsistent still.

        Judging by last night’s match, the US should play Denmark.

    • mockmook

      SUI

      ——–

      Despite JE’s lofty rhetoric, the USA team will be largely unchanged. Maybe add an Ohai and a Short, something like that.

      And the team will continue to look like fools — saying Rapinoe is violating policy, but doing nothing about it.

      • Chak Khan

        SUI. Stand corrected!

        • mockmook

          I think she has to call up some NWSL players just to get a “full” roster — and I don’t think she only goes with people who have been in camp before.

          But, again, I’m thinking only 2 or 3 “newbies” for SUI.

      • DNG

        I think the team will replace Engen and Krieger at the very least I don’t know what is going to happen with Leroux but I don’t expect to see Arod in 2019. That allows for at least 4 new players I think.

        I think they should drop Leroux, Arod, Krieger, Engen, Klingenberg, Lloyd, Rapinoe, and Long for 2019

        • mockmook

          I’d add Solo, Harris, and possibly O’Hara, Heath, Brunn, JJ and Alex to the dropped list by 2019. And, some of those are personal favorites of mine.

          Regardless, the comment you reacted to was just for the game against SUI.

          • DNG

            I think you need to keep veterans with good attitude in the team. I don’t think it makes much sense to completely turnover the roster. I like O’hara, Heath, Brunn and Press in the squad as long as they prove they can still play at a high level. I don’t realistically think Morgan is going to be dropped and I don’t think she needs to be. I just wouldn’t start her every game anymore. I’m not a fan of JJ but am willing to see if she can improve.

            Yeah I didn’t catch that you were just talking about the upcoming friendlies. I think they might call in a bunch of extra players like they did a year ago at least to get them into camp. I can see Rapinoe, Krieger, and Engen all being left off that roster.

          • Gary Diver

            China, Japan, Canada, England, and Germany are going with youth for WC19. I would argue that if USWNT had a top notch coach and was able to choose any players to integrate into the roster a dominate USWNT team could be developed for WC19.

            As I mentioned before I would keep at most 4-5 players from the current roster. You mention attitude and the current players have an attitude problem of entitlement and not playing up to their potential. USWNT needs less star players and more talented hungry players who will do anything to contribute to a team which plays up to its potential which the current team is not doing.

            If there is not a serious movement to new blood I expect USWNT to crash at WC19 and then there will finally be a good old fashion house cleaning starting with the coach.

          • Camoes

            They’ve never had a proper house cleaning because they’ve always been #1 or #2 in the FIFA rankings.

          • Steglitz49

            Brunn and Press have proven that they can’t.

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press is no longer needed on the USWNT. Call up Savannah Jordan and Ashley Sanchez for the annual winter camp as the replacements.

          • Steglitz49

            It is the defense and DM that needs fixing.

          • HOFCToDi

            MF (DMC)?

            allwhitekit.com/?p=14973#more-14973

            ussoccer.com/us-under23-womens-national-team/stats

        • Steglitz49

          They must find a goalie of the modern variety, that is someone who stands at least 5’11” and preferably taller.

          They must get rid of more players. I am with MockMook except I would keep Alex and dismiss Press instead. (Alex may take herself out of the equation for 2017, like ARod did in 2013.)

          • guest

            the 2 of 3 GK’s on U-20 roster are over 6′
            6’0′ (Murphy) and 6’1″ (Heinsohn)

            also a number of other GK’s at NCAA level in 5’11” or over range.

            trick will be finding a 6′ GK with Hope Solo’s skill level

          • Steglitz49

            If Kara Lowe and Candace Parker (both 6’4″) and Lisa Leslie (6’5″) can/could excel, there is hope.

            I would bring those U20 goalies into the senior camp and play then one half each against the Swiss, unless it clashes with the U20 WC.

          • guest

            the U20’s have camp and 2 friendlies with Venezuela in Oct, then prep in Australia before U-20 WC Nov 13 to Dec 3rd.

            A couple of years back the uswnt held a GK only camp where they called in 7 or 8 GK’s – so perhaps they will use a similar approach to get a look a wider range of GK options.

          • Gary Diver

            How about bringing Solo back to work with Murphy and Heinsohn? Solo does have a good reputation working with the other keepers. Actually Naeher made a somewhat strange comment a couple days ago that could be interpreted as Solo is missed.

          • Steglitz49

            Hope will always be missed. Judging by her interactions with the fans, her soccer heart is in the right place.

          • Gary Diver

            Apparently she attended Seattle’s last game and went on the field after the game to meet her teammates. I know I am in the minority, but I would be happy to see her back with USWNT in February. Still see her better than Harris or Naeher.

          • Steglitz49

            If a reporter had stuck that microphone under Alex’s nose, she would have said in her own slow and deliberate style: “We lost. It did not help that the Swedes played the way they did because it made for a boring match.”

          • Gary Diver

            Public personas and inner thoughts to not always match up.

          • Steglitz49

            “Keep your teeth before your tongue”. He is known as William the Silent (more correctly the Taciturn).

          • Gary Diver

            What do they say? “If thoughts could kill, there would be a lot more dead people in your life.”

          • sudeep das

            I am all for it

          • Observed

            She is not better than the others anymore. She proved it by farting out in the game vs. Colombia giving up two FKs.

          • Gary Diver

            One bad game does not define a career or one’s future.

          • Steglitz49

            It sometimes does — Press, for example. Alex had a run of great games, which cemented and ironclad her reputation.

          • guest

            that will probably not even be an option until her DA court case is resolved. if hope is convicted of any charge related to that, she is surely done with the uswnt.

          • guest

            wonder why devon kerr hasn’t been on the u-20 roster? she’s another tall one.

      • Steglitz49

        It took me a while to figure out SUI. I use CH, like I type NL and not NED.

        • sudeep das

          Helvetia – maybe

          • Steglitz49

            “Confoederatio Helvetica (CH)” = Swiss Confederation in Latin

          • sudeep das

            Correct

          • Steglitz49

            The American constitution is largely based on the Swiss one.

          • Lorehead
          • Steglitz49

            The history has been covered by many and various historians. Suffice it to type, that the Swiss experience had a positive influence on the American Revolution, figured in the debates on adoption of the United States Constitution, and was a matter of commentary in the political struggles of the early US Republic.

            In turn, the American model influenced the Swiss Constitution of 1848, but before that the Swiss Confederation—then 500 years old— helped inspire the birth of the American Republic.

          • Lorehead

            I’m sure it was a precedent for a group of formerly-independent states joining a confederation, but the Swiss government at that time was a lot closer to the one in the Articles of Confederation. Poland, at that time, was often given as an example of what not to do.

          • Steglitz49

            It is a lot simpler for you to admit that you were wrong.

            Initially the framers of the Constitution worked from that of Venice but they found it too cumbersome and open to corruption. The Swiss model was seen as a viable alternative.

            The final product was, well understood, a unique piece of creative craft of statesmanship.

          • Lorehead

            There isn’t much structural similarity between the documents, although that was one precedent for a group of small polities with a common cultural identity to voluntarily unite; the Netherlands were another (although Switzerland had not declared itself formally independent of the Holy Roman Empire by then, and the Netherlands chose to become a monarchy instead of a republic).

          • Steglitz49

            Motley has admirably described the Dutch War of Independence and the development of the Dutch Republic and how it became a monarchy under the House of Orange. It is 2 plus 4 volumes. Well worth reading.

            Thus, the Dutch play in a brilliant orange color.

          • Lorehead

            The British also decided they liked the House of Orange so much, they’d marry William of Orange to their queen and make him king. And that’s why Northern Ireland’s Unionists still make orange their color.

            Although their football team wears emerald green and sings, “We’re not Brazil, we’re Northern Ireland.”

    • HOFCToDi

      The USWNT coaching staff is in dire need of a NWSL training camp once the NWSL season concludes. Expect USWNTPA backlash as was rumored last year at this time.

      • Terry Lash

        What do you mean by a NWSL training camp? A camp hosted by USWNT but limited to players in the NWSL this season?

        • HOFCToDi

          NWSL players currently not allocated by the USSF.

          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NWSL_Player_Allocation#2016

        • guest

          it is rumored a uswnt training camp for select unallocated nwsl players was blocked by the uswnt players last fall.

          • Terry Lash

            I hope the rumor is untrue. There should be a mechanism for getting unallocated NWSL players evaluated for positions on the USWNT.

          • guest

            that is doubtful. there is another recent rumor that during the ongoing cba negotiations, the ussf is trying to increase the number of uswnt floater players but the uswnt players are not agreeable to it at the moment. the uswnt players are interested in equal pay but not in equal opportunity. that would be too much equality. hopefully, the sports media and uswnt fans will pressure the ussf and demand uswnt equal opportunity and a system closer to pay-to- play like the usmnt

          • Gary Diver

            It will be really interesting if there is no agreement by the end of the year. I suspect that USWNT players lost more than $150,000 per player by pooping out at OG16. They lost the momentum for “equal pay for equal play” and leverage in their negotiations.

          • HOFCToDi

            The current/former members of the USWNTPA are the architects of their own demise:

            Wambach
            Solo
            Rapinoe

          • Gary Diver

            Do the recently retired USWNT players from WC15 still have a vote on any new contract?

          • Steglitz49

            If I were the USSF, I would grab this golden chance and run with it. In short, make the USWNTPA bend over and take it like a man.

          • Gary Diver

            You may be right, I read that next month is when the negotiations are suppose to get serious. Also, there are mixed messages floating about. Some say progress has been made and other say a player strike in January is a real possibility. Christmas will give us something to talk about other than Christmas.

          • Steglitz49

            Who will care if the players strike in January? Let them.

            The projected attendance for the past two Internationals were 16,000 each. Both failed to meet their targets. One fell about 5,500 short and the other 350.

            Maybe the makers of fine cuckoo-clox can pull in the punters. I doubt it.

          • Gary Diver

            December rumors will definitely be interesting to follow.

          • Steglitz49

            The problem for the players is that a big chunk of players are on easy street having had the benefit of the 2008-2015 run and milked it for all it is worth, including dropping their kits for the cameras.

            It is a different world now. Americans are not fond of losers. The glorias of the heroines are tarnished indeed. Might as well watch X-country skiing, Downhill and Biathlon from December through to Easter.

          • guest2

            current CBA/MOU does not have any limit on number of floater players – there is a limit on how many days (25-30) that a player can be called into camps as floater before us soccer has to offer them a contract (or stop calling them up) – so only thing limiting number of floated players is budget not CBA

          • Steglitz49

            I expect that the USSF will want a contract where the NT reimburses clubs for the time that they take players away from them or, as an alternative, the players are paid at the same rate as they are by their clubs.

            It will then be up to the players to negotiate their own individual contracts direct with the clubs. Those worth more will earn more and those who have no value will go to the wall and find a job stocking shelves at Wallmart.

          • guest

            re “expect that the USSF …. reimburses clubs … etc”
            the CBA between USSF and USMNT on men’s side does neither (does not reimburse clubs no pay players at same rate as club) so it would be very unlikely to see women’s CBA structured that way.

          • Steglitz49

            Maybe they want the ladies CBA to be the same as the men’s? That way they would get around the sex discrimination issue.

          • guest

            maybe the rumor i read was that the ussf is trying to increase the total number of days the floater players can be called in before contract offer then and not total number of floater players. didn’t remember exactly.

          • Steglitz49

            Not if you sit by the fleshpots and have your snout in the gravy train. You want to stay there as long as possible.

            The sows forgot that if you don’t win the big tournament or at least reach the finals, then you get “onky” $150,000 instead of the $250-300,000 that would have been yours by winning.

            Even so, $150,000 is not to be sneezed at.

      • guest

        per CBA/MOU section “Training camps outside of residency” the players (USWNTPA) only have input on decision to hold camp (not on who is invited) and only have input on decision – IF us soccer plans more than 2 training camps not tied to games in any one year

        so long as US soccer structures camp before/around friendlies (or tournaments) then USSF should be able to call in whoever as a floater

        In one of the recent prior years us soccer also used an over-aged U-23 camp to call in a group that included a number of NWSL players.

        Given that CBA/MOU expires at end of year, us soccer might be wise to schedule Oct / Nov / Dec camps including call ups from NWSL etc this year. Without a CBA/MOU in place – so no agreed to terms under which to bring in players – the traditional extended camp in January may be at risk for 2017 if new CBA negotiations are still not resolved

        • HOFCToDi

          “Without a CBA/MOU in place – so no agreed to terms under which to bring in players – the traditional extended camp in January may be at risk for 2017 if new CBA negotiations are still not resolved.”
          Lock the players out, call up the collegiate athletes and the teenage prodigies. The Senior USWNT reverts back to amateur status for calendar year 2017.

          • guest

            in late 2004 and into 2005 when CBA negotiations between USSF and the us men’s NT (USMNT) had stalled and men when out on strike or USSF locked players out (depending on which side you choose to believe) the USSF did try to hold replacement camp using players from USL – did not go well. Eventually USSF and USMNT both came back to table (since WC qualification was about to start) signed an interim deal (so usmnt players did play in wc qualification matches) and did not actually finalize the new CBA until Nov/Dec 2005.

            so, USSF does have some history with waiting out a long negotiation. Not clear to me from limited info in news reports where the current USSF/USWNT CBA negotiations actually stand but would not be surprised CBA is not resolved by Jan.

          • HOFCToDi

            The U-23 USWNT beat IRL 3-0 after the Senior USWNT beat IRL 5-0 last January.

            ussoccer.com/matches/u23-wnt/2016/160125-u23wnt-v-irl#tab-1

            ussoccer.com/matches/wnt/2016/160123-wnt-v-irl#tab-1

            Lock ’em out. Let ’em grovel for bread crumbs just like the NWSL rank and file. Brings new meaning to the phrase “equal play, equal pay”.

        • Steglitz49

          As HOFCToDi types, without a CBA/MOU the head coach has a free hand until one is in place.

          I expect the management to play hardball here. The USWNT failed in OG-16. Worst result ever. That has to cost and be reflected in any new CBA/MOU.

          The Grid-Iron season has started, the Hockey World Cup is on followed by the NHL on Oct 12th, etc. Nobody, except commentators on the EQ will care about the USWNT and the rest will consider that they deserve what they will get. Not much.

          • HOFCToDi

            Dos a Cero

            ussoccer.com/stories/2016/09/19/21/23/160919-mnt-heads-to-comfortable-confines-of-columbus-for-fifth-straight-hex-match-v-mexico

  • Gary Diver

    A Thought: Because soccer is a very low scoring sport why not have double-elimination tournaments instead of single-elimination tournaments?

    Single-elimination tournament matches often tend not to be about winning, but about not losing which is a different goal (pun intended). Should the winner of a tournament be the “best team” or just the team that best avoids elimination?

    • Hugo

      Not enough time

      • Steglitz49

        Indeed. If it added value and was simple to use, it would have been in use in soccer long ago.

        • Gary Diver

          Jeff Hester: “Every once in a while a new idea comes along — a shift in thinking that challenges the status quo. These innovations require us to either resist the change or adapt (most of us tend to resist).

          German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer did a good job of summarizing the lifecycle of the new idea, when he said (describing the revelation of “new” truth): ‘All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident.'”

          Be bold, think outside the box. Sport rules are not written in stone.

          Hockey is phasing out shootouts to end matches. Initially there was great resistance against replacing shootouts. “Shootouts are traditional and we have to do things the way our grandparents did them.” Why do things the way our grandparents did them?

          Soccer badly needs to consider alternatives to shootouts which are just glorified coin tosses. They are actually worse than coin tosses since the winning team does not actually win the shootout, the other team loses it. Having contests determined by a teaming losing is a terrible way of ending matches.

          For a double-elimination tournament, nobody know how well it would work until it is tried. Why not do an experiment? Would the world fall apart? In the current single-elimination system many of the group play matches are a simply a waste of everybody’s time. The goal of every match should be to win, not to avoid losing. Make every match count. Why shouldn’t every count? Do the double-elimination experiment to see if that system is better than the single-elimination system.

          • Steglitz49

            During the Second World War, Churchill insisted, that any memorandum to him about some new idea of winning the war, must be on one page. He maintained that if it was longer, it was unlikely to be affect the outcome of the war.

            Churchill’s memorandum, that lead to the building of the artificial harbors for Normandy (Mulberry Harbours) was 32 words.

          • Gary Diver

            Borrowing from “black lives matter”, I think the soccer authorities should think about changing their system so “every match matters” which is not the case now. Why shouldn’t each match matter?

            P.S. Less is more. Every American student in the past had to memorize the great American creeds: the beginning of the Declaration of Independence, Preamble to the US Constitution, and the Gettysburg Address. Every one of these articles of faith were short and beautifully written.

          • Steglitz49

            Every match did matter. Simply ask the Swedes and Americans.

          • Gary Diver

            The question is “if hockey can go boldly forward and find alternatives to shootouts, why can’t soccer?

          • Steglitz49

            Because the fans are more than OK with the pso and because soccer tested the Golden Goal for a dozen years or so and found it wanting.

          • Chak Khan

            If no one thought outside of the box, we would still be using outhouses.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank goodness for the oast-house.

          • mockmook

            But, what do you do to eliminate/resolve draws in your system? Seems the same problem is there.

          • Lorehead

            Same thing as in the current single-elimination system, except a better team would have to get upset twice instead of once.

          • Steglitz49

            Takes away all the fun.
            The crowds love so-called “giant-killers”.
            You do not want to load the dice against the underdog.

            It did not start with North-Korea in 1966 and there have been other examples since.

            One of the reasons the tournaments with 12 or 24 teams is disliked is that some 3rd place teams get through .. and then do surprisingly well.

          • Lorehead

            Upsets would happen as often. More often, in fact, since group-stage draws would go to extra time and penalty kicks. They just wouldn’t force the team that lost to go home.

            And you have to choose: either the World Cup actually determines the best team in the world, so that the U.S. losing three times in a row (on penalty kicks) proves it wasn’t all that good, despite its number-one ranking and three consecutive Olympic gold medals, or else upsets happen all the time in the elimination rounds and the best team often doesn’t win.

          • Steglitz49

            The best team always wins. That is the definition of best.

            Granted, in the US only the NFL plays like soccer with basic series and a knock-out stage, with one sigle final match. The ball may be round or egg-shaped but the structure the same.

            As we stated before, soccer tested the Golden Goal for a dozen years or so but in the end abandoned it. They gave it a fair run for its money — enough rope to hang itself, you might say.

          • Gary Diver

            “The best team always wins.”

            1. Reasonable people can differ on their definition of “best”. The situation is like “survival of the fittest” in evolution. To non-scientists this is a simple tautology because by “definition” fittest should be defined as though who survive. But it is not a tautology; biologist define “the fittest” independently of the outcome.

            2. FIFA considers draws draws.

          • Steglitz49

            As we type the Hockey World Cup is being played. It now moves into a knock-out stage with single matches, not the NHL format of best of 7 for the final or even 5.

            What makes the USWNT exit from OG-16 extra embarrassing is that last time round Japan reached the OG-12 final. Also, when the US won the WC the previous time in 1999, they too reached the Sydney final but lost to Norway — on a Golden Goal.

    • Steglitz49

      Does any major intenational sport employ your proposal?

      Soccer, like rugby and other team sports, is continually devloping and if this system added value and was simple to use, it would have been in use in soccer long ago.

      In the ongoing Hockey World Cup the same system as in soccer is used: winner of group A plays second in group B and vice versa.

  • sudeep das

    Is Dekker the Dutch Tancredi? Just asking

    • Steglitz49

      as in DDT?

      • sudeep das

        Very effective pest killer although banned.

        • Steglitz49

          The DDR is not with us any more either — since >25 years.

          • sudeep das

            Now that was another era in international sports – USSR, DDR and USA.

          • Lorehead

            And, soon enough, GBR will join them.

          • sudeep das

            But GBR did well in the Rio games – surprising a lot of people and taking advantage of Russia’s ban.

          • Steglitz49

            The Brits had invested a lot of money into sports since they were awarded the 2012 games. Infact, the results started to show already in 2008.

          • Lorehead

            I was joking that Great Britain is likely to break up too, after Brexit.

  • Oraliatwinters1

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    !os682f:
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  • ABCDE

    Is Lloyd going to attempt to overtake Mia and maybe even Wambach? I really think that is her end goal here.

    • Steglitz49

      Irony, I presume. She has 6 goals to go to get to 100. Line up the tomato-cans unless the Swiss oblige.

      Carli has cored many critical goals for the USWNT and been voted POTY. That should be more than enough.

  • HOFCToDi

    Christen Press has firmly cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

    garbage time
    prima donna
    selfish shot hog
    tomato cans

    2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
    Carli Lloyd #10 of the US poses after winning the Silver Boot
    img.fifa.com/mm/photo/tournament/competition/02/66/13/11/2661311_big-lnd.jpg

    By the way, that’s not Christen Press.

    ROFLMAO!

  • HOFCToDi

    Christen Press has firmly cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

    garbage time
    prima donna
    selfish shot hog
    tomato cans

    2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
    Carli Lloyd #10 of the US poses after winning the Golden Ball
    img.fifa.com/mm/photo/tournament/competition/02/66/13/04/2661304_big-lnd.jpg

    By the way, that’s not Christen Press.

    ROFLMAO!

  • HOFCToDi

    Christen Press has firmly cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

    garbage time
    prima donna
    selfish shot hog
    tomato cans

    For USWNT posterity:

    30 June 2015 vs GER, 05 July 2015 vs JPN
    drawformation.com/post/56bc60cb89182/56bc60cb89182.png

    Nevermind Christen Press started eleven of the first twelve matches for the USWNT in calendar year 2015.

    ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/lineups/2015-lineups

    ROFLMAO!

  • HOFCToDi

    Christen Press has firmly cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

    garbage time
    prima donna
    selfish shot hog
    tomato cans

    Not once has Christen Press been named Budweiser Woman of the Match in calendar year 2016.

    ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/results-statistics

    ROFLMAO!

  • HOFCToDi

    Christen Press has firmly cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

    garbage time
    prima donna
    selfish shot hog
    tomato cans

    FIFA Top Ten Ranked Opponents
    USWNT Goals Scored

    Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 34
    Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
    Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3
    Johnston (DOB 06 Apr 1992) – 2
    Dunn (DOB 03 Jul 1992) – 2
    Horan (DOB 26 May 1994) – 2
    Mewis (DOB 09 Oct 1992) – 1

  • HOFCToDi

    Christen Press has firmly cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

    garbage time
    prima donna
    selfish shot hog
    tomato cans

    USWNT
    2016 Calendar Year
    Games Started (Forwards/Midfielders)
    Lloyd -18
    Heath – 16
    Morgan – 16
    Brian – 14
    Dunn – 13
    Horan – 13
    Pugh – 12
    Long – 10
    Press – 7
    Mewis – 5

    ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/stats

    Nevermind Christen Press started eleven of the first twelve matches for the USWNT in calendar year 2015.

    ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/lineups/2015-lineups

    ROFLMAO!

  • Steglitz49

    This is comment 1050. Amazing!

  • Guest

    This squad is going to need some real firepower to emerge over the next couple years. I don’t really see lloyd maintaining her level of play/clutchness and Alex isn’t what she was. Press seems to be stepping up, perhaps coincidentally (or not) at the same time as Heath. It’ll be interesting who steps into the leadership void that is still left by Wambach.

    • Steglitz49

      Don’t press your luck lest HOFCToDi drowns you in stats.

      • HOFCToDi

        Christen Press has become expendable. Call up Savannah Jordan and Ashley Sanchez for the annual winter camp as the replacements.

        FIFA Top Ten Ranked Opponents
        USWNT Goals Scored
        Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 34
        Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
        Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3

        • Steglitz49

          Thank you.

          I did not like the snide allusion between Press and Heath. WoSo can do without that.

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals – 0
            Assists – 0
            Shots Attempted – 6
            Shots on Goal – 1
            Penalty Kicks Attempted – 1
            Penalty Kicks Converted – 0

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press has firmly cemented her legacy with the USWNT:

            garbage time
            prima donna
            selfish shot hog
            tomato cans

            Christen Press has yet to score a goal let alone register an assist versus a Top 20 FIFA Ranked opponent in calendar year 2016.

          • HOFCToDi

            The “Press Gang Troll Brigade” has spewed the same garbage for nearly four years. The statute of limitations has run out for excuses.

            FIFA Top Ten Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored
            Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 34
            Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
            Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3

        • guest

          ashley sanchez, like Pugh, is a cycle away from being impactful. Press is the most talented forward in the USA right now, who does not get the playing time she deserves. That is clearly changing as Ellis appears to be using her interchangeably with Morgan

          • HOFCToDi

            Christen Press is a LOSER!

            FIFA Top Ten Ranked Opponents
            USWNT Goals Scored
            Morgan (DOB 02 Jul 1989) – 34
            Leroux (DOB 07 May 1990) – 8
            Press (DOB 29 Dec 1988) – 3

            Christen Press
            2016 Summer Olympic Games
            Goals – 0
            Assists – 0
            Shots Attempted – 6
            Shots on Goal – 1
            Penalty Kicks Attempted – 1
            Penalty Kicks Converted – 0

            Christen Press
            2016 SheBelieves Cup
            Goals – 0
            Assists – 0

          • annie

            stop responding to trolls

          • Steglitz49

            The real troll was the unregistered lowlife that yet again made a low allusion between Press and Heath.

            HOFCToDi can be followed and on more occasions than not his comments make sense.

          • HOFCToDi

            Mallory Pugh already has more assists in calendar year 2016 than Christen Press in calendar year 2015 and calendar year 2016 combined.

          • Steglitz49

            If Alex is unavailable in 2017 (and 2018) we shall know. Alex will always start except when she is injured. Who subs in for Alex will vary according to the game.

            Ellis will needs must test new forwards. Savannah Jordan has been mentioned by several commentators but there are more.

          • guest

            no, she won’t, if her form keeps declining. and no, there aren’t a bunch of new forwards. there are hardly any players capable of playing at the national team level which is part of why you only have a few additions to the team per cycle, along with the nature of the players’ contracts and ussf not having any incentive to payroll more players.

          • Gary Diver

            “There are hardly any players capable of playing at the national team level.”

            Please explain further. China, Japan, Canada, England, and Germany are finding new players for WC19. So why can’t USWNT find talented new blood when most of their competitors are able to do it?

          • annie

            the reality is that even most “new blood”, as you like to say, call ups don’t end up making the rosters. the speed of play and fitness levels required are a step above college and the nwsl. the best players in the nwsl are already on the national team perhaps with a few rare exceptions (i.e. Menges, but I’ve never actually seen her play for the NT so who knows). look at WNY not being able to score against Thailand and they are supposed to have one of the best offenses in the league.

          • guest

            if you aren’t coming up through the U-17/20 system you probably aren’t making the team. and it doesn’t look like there are too many promising rookies looking at what a mess the U20s are right now.

          • Steglitz49

            Papua New Guinea will give us the answer. Just like WC-12 did.

          • Steglitz49

            There must be rejuvenation. There ain’t two ways about it.

          • HOFCToDi

            I just love the definitive statements from the “Press Gang Troll Brigade”. Three years from now Mallory Pugh will be 21 years old and Ashley Sanchez will be 20 years old. As if anyone can predict who will emerge three years from now.

            allwhitekit.com/?p=15061#more-15061

            allwhitekit.com/?p=14973#more-14973

          • Gary Diver

            Thank you for this very interesting and useful information as we look forward to WC19. New blood is badly needed for USWNT and sooner is better than later.

          • Steglitz49

            Of all the current NT players, Alex is the most iconic. Carli has a right to be grumpy for why Alex tops her in the appreciation and earnings charts.

            A new CBA/MOU will be in place. Till we know its exact nature, it is hard to be categoric. Nevertheless, the NT must develop more players because the current crop won’t last forever and several have this year proved to be past their best-by date.

      • HOFCToDi

        The “Press Gang Troll Brigade” needs to be beaten down on a daily basis.