Abby Wambach’s parting message: ‘Forget me’

The Equalizer Staff December 17, 2015 401

Abby Wambach tried to contain her emotions on Wednesday while playing in her final competitive match.

She scored 184 goals in 255 appearances for the United States women’s national team, retiring after Wednesday’s surprising but — as she called it — fitting 1-0 loss to China which ended the U.S.’ 104-match, 11-year home unbeaten streak.

[MORE: Wambach’s final moments on the field with USWNT  |  Goodbye letter]  

Hours before the match, Wambach posted to Twitter, Facebook and Instagram a simple message: “Make them forget me.” And then she disabled all of her social media accounts.

Wambach wants women’s soccer to push forward and grow. She, like so many invested in the sport, wants to see women’s soccer grow to such great heights that those who follow in her footsteps are even bigger deals than she is or ever was.

Those are ginormous shoes to fill, but the message was loud and clear with her “Forget Me” video, posted by Gatorade. It’s an emotional monologue reenacting Wambach’s final moments as an active U.S. player (see below).

“Forget me. Forget my number. Forget my name. Forget I ever existed. Forget the medals won, the records broken and the sacrifices made,” Wambach says in the video. “I want to leave a legacy where the ball keeps rolling forward, where the next generation accomplishes things so great that I am no longer remembered. So – forget me – because the day I’m forgotten is the day we will succeed.”

And even more emotional is the video of her teammates saying goodbye (with some humor at the end from who else but Megan Rapinoe):

 

  • The ‘Forget Me’ message was so powerful…I can’t wait to see what she does for women’s sports in the future with all of her fire and passion. Roll that ball forward!

    • Tom F

      unfortunately it’s way too much patronizing. Think of the 33K that spend nearly a million dollars to see the USWNT play at their best in NO, and instead got stuck seeing some kinda Wambach love fest in which we lost our 1st home game in 104 tries, simply cause Abby has been past her prime,
      Then she has the audacity to insult the men’s program which has to compete against countries where soccer is on par to baseball basketball , football & ice hockey combined. These other countries spend as little as only 1% of their soccer programs on woso(as compared to us who spend almost half)

      • Lorehead

        It’s more like 25%. The Canadian association, though, did spend more on its women’s team.

        • Tom F

          I live close to NO, didn’t go but the medium price quoted to me was $66 for a ticket Plus add ridiculous over charged parking($35 for a Saints game), concession stands & merchandise, I’m pretty sure the fans who attended spend over million

          • Lorehead

            Did you mean that as a reply to me? Anyway, U.S. Soccer spends about three times as much on the USMNT as on the USWNT.

          • Steglitz49

            I wonder what they could have charged if the men of Barcelona had played PSG? Messi vs Zlatan etc.

            I would guess $166 and the tickets would have sold out in 1 hour.

  • Nostalgia

    I can’t help but feel sad when I see video of the young Abbster, and then her last games. She didn’t really go out on top.

    • mskillens

      elite athletes sometimes stay in the game a little past their due date and end on a anti-climatic note. Case in point Kobe Bryant and Brigit Prinz.

    • Steglitz49

      She wanted that world cup, which is understandable. Because of her want, other Veterans got it too.

    • SpiritFan00

      Yeah, that last game was really painful to watch.

  • commonsenddude

    Before I make my comments, I would like to say that I think that Abby is
    a good person. I also think that women in soccer have every right to
    fight for safe field conditions.I also feel that the USSF could do a
    much better job communicating with the players
    and asking them for input. However, I believe this women soccer
    players as victims of evil sexist men has gotten way way out of hand and Abby has been actively promoting this theme.

    Lets look at her career and who supported it financially. First, she
    attended the University of Florida on a full scholarship. The Florida’s
    women’s soccer team runs in the red to the tune of the high six
    figures. This significant cost is paid for by the profits from the
    Florida football and men’s basketball teams. Most of these players are
    African American men from impoverished backgrounds. Most of the women
    soccer players are middle-class white women.

    She then played in the WUSA, which lost over 100 million dollars. This loss was paid for by male owners. She played in the WPS, which also lost tens of millions of
    dollars from all male owners. She ended up playing in NWSL which also
    loses money and is paid for by male owners and the USSF (profits from
    the men’s team).

    The bulk of her salary has been paid for by the USWNT, which has been heavily subsidized by the profits from the men’s team since it’s beginning in the mid 1980’s. Her salary is over $200,000. Not bad for playing a children’s game for a living. Given this, I only see how men have been paying her bills, not keeping her down. She has chosen to take the a victim approach favored by most
    modern feminist rather than looking at reality.

    She complains that Landon Donovan and male soccer players can retire without having to worry about finding a job. I have two responses to this. First, you are not Landon Donovan. If you had his ability, EPL teams would have been offering you huge contracts to play for them. Think of the promotional opportunities in this PC world of having a female player.

    Secondly, most male soccer player around the world don’t retire millionaires. Most male soccer players play in the lower divisions where they are paid under
    $100,000 a year. Only a tiny fraction of the total male soccer player
    population play for the elite leagues. Of the thousands of players who
    have played in the MLS over the past twenty years, 95% of them had to
    find a job right away.

    That goes for most male athletes in any sport. Most baseball players players are like Crash Davis in Bull Durham, not multi-millionaires. Most bowlers, golfers, tennis players, basketball players, ice hockey players, skate boarders, and surfers barely make enough to survive in the present, let alone live a life of luxury. And minor league sports teams actually make money (they have to to survive), while all women’s sports teams lose money.

    Abby, you are not Messi, if you had the ability to play at his level, you would
    have been playing in the EPL not the NWSL. Women’s professional soccer loses
    money everywhere in the world. That is why you don’t make the same
    amount of money. It is not some sexist conspiracy to keep you down. Stop
    with the women are victims and start appreciating all the financial
    support men gave you to make your career possible.

    • Tikitaka

      I appreciate you starting off with recognizing the contributions she’s made to the game and recognizing some unfair conditions the USWNT and female players in general have to deal with, but the whole “you should appreciate what men gave you” bit is a little much. Without going into a long drawn out explanation on women’s rights, I’ll leave you with this question: If someone pushes you down and then decides on their terms to help you back up, how grateful would you be for them helping you back up? Some people would be grateful, some people wouldn’t be grateful and even more people would be pissed off.

      • commonsensedude

        You sound like someone who has been indoctrinated by a woman’s studies professor at Oberlin College. They obviously have taught you to think like a victim and a victim you shall remain. American woman have it better than 99% of the men in the world. American women like you have a whole world of opportunity that women from all over the world can only dream about. Think about it. You can pursue any career you want. You are free to live whatever lifestyle you want, but you choose to think like a victim and remain in the past and look for sexism and micro-agressions under every rock you find. Even 90 years ago, most American woman had it better than most men living in third world today. To answer your question, if someone pushes me down, I would get up by my own strength and not take a hand out. If men treated women as bad as you claim, then they should have some pride and build their own leagues and their own team without a dime of men’s money.

        • Tikitaka

          Lol let’s talk about how peachy it was for a woman 90 years ago pre civil rights and women’s suffrage.

          And how am I playing the victim? Because I believe oppression existed and still does to an extent? That’s called being a realist and at the very least called paying attention in history class, which was at a public school and not Oberlin 😉

          They should “build their own leagues and their own team without a dime of men’s money”? What the hell? Not sure where that came from, but you can run with it as far as you want.

          • Steglitz49

            The fact that the two NWSL expansion teams are MLS teams supports his case. Portland is also an MLS team.

            Let’s hope that that the NWSL model will be successful one day but let’s also accept that it is heavily subsidized and if rumors of more MLS being added, it will be an appendix to men’s soccer in the US.

            WoSo in Europe has been changing fast owing to the entry of big men’s money into WoSo. Gone is the day when a wealthy club like Man Utd could close its women’s section. There may still be a need for a John Terry in some parts of the world.

            It is up to the fans to make WoSo work. The most obvious glaring absence is people watching, this in the US which has dominated the ladies game since its start and at long last has won the WC.

          • Tikitaka

            So women, who admit that sexism exists should accept money, that they work for, if they admit sexism exists? Should African American, who know racism is real, not accept money from white employers? That’s a ridiculous concept. No one is saying that all men are sexist. No one is saying that all men are oppressors, but to act like it’s not an issue that doesn’t affect women’s soccer (and people in general) today is completely obnoxious. You’re not playing a victim by admitting that truth. And you’re damn straight not playing a victim if you’re working your butt off to change things.

            I’m very pro MLS and NWSL partnerships and I’m excited to hopefully see more.

          • HOFCToDi

            Ignore the bitter Swedish troll. The bitter Swedish troll is envious of Division 1 Feminine and Frauen Bundesliga since the Damallsvenskan is unable to compete on the European scene.

          • Tom F

            but long withering discussions(like this threat) without actually watching a woso game is right up Steg’s alley!

          • Steglitz49

            Don’t tell us what we do and do not do.

            We have gone to our local team’s every home game and some away games for 5 years now. We support them in many and various ways. We have gone through the agony of staying solvent more than once. It is not fun.

            We have gone to internationals. went to 3 Euro-13 matches, including the final, and watched on the big screen in the fan zone. Maybe we will go to the ladies FA Cup final one day?

          • yay

            Nothing better than Sexist Steglitz participating in a discussion about equality/feminism/etc.

          • Steglitz49

            It is not much fun when the money is not enough and no men’s team in sight to provide the ever ready.

            The players (wo)man the phones and get local businesses to agree to put up small amounts of money per spectator. Then it is on to get people to come along to the match and be counted into the stands. Funnily enough, old men are willing to go along and support the “local girls” but the women of any age have better things to do. No loyalty to their sisters.

            In the end you just meet the financial rules. You breathe a sight of relief — but you know it is the same struggle next year. And the year after.

            No men’s team to share the front office with, marketing, accountants and the field. The players sleep on the coach to save hotel costs. It is not a super-duper coach like Liverpool Ladies or Wolfsburg can afford — who anyway stay in 4 & 5 star hotels.

            Need I go on?

          • HOFCToDi

            The bitter Swedish troll can’t keep his facts straight, spews false propaganda, and did not watch the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup as evident by the pure bull crap posted about the USA China quarterfinal.

          • Steglitz49

            The issue is not WoSo vs BroSo. The issue is to recognise that the way forward is BroSo with WoSo at least for the foreseeable future. If this model works, why not use it? That is what the NWSL is doing.

            FIFA sells the ladies WC as a package with the men’s WC. You cannot buy the rights to the men’s WC without also buying the ladies WC AND agree to show a certain proportion of the matches. FIFA are realistic on this issue.

            Maybe one fine day WoSo can stand on its own feet. Let’s hope so. Till then, let’s make the partnership work but also give credit for the men that make it work.

          • Tikitaka

            You just contradicted yourself in this comment. “It’s not men vs women, but give credit to the men”. It’s not about anyone getting credit, it’s about making things better for everyone.

            I’m also positive in other posts you were the one preaching about how NWSL teams shouldn’t partner with MLS teams, so you’re either playing devil’s advocate or you’re just a hypocrite.

            Either way, I’m done commenting further you with.

          • Steglitz49

            As long as supporters of WoSo are clear in their own minds that it is easier for a WoSo team to belong to a rich organisation be it an MLS team or some other business, than it is to be a pure WoSo activity, there is no disagreement.

            The harsh reality is that hte NWSL as well as the European WoSo Leagues (can’t speak for Japan) are subsidized. The Europeans accept this and let the €, £ or other currency rule, for better or for worse but certainly for richer than poorer. In the US it is the threat of not playing for the NT, where the real income is, that keeps the players in line.

            Europe is socialist in that the rich men’s teams have started subsidizing their ladies but capitalist in letting money rule. I am not sure what the NWSL model is but it works in the free enterprise culture of the mighty dollar, ever one $, money without end.

      • enoughalready

        Your attitude shows the sense the entitlement that far too many Americans have today. Rather than being grateful for the financial help many men have provided to women’s soccer, you have an entitlement attitude of “It’s the least they can do.” Wow, if that is your attitude when someone gives your support, I hate to see you when you don’t get your way.

        When I was growing up and someone gave us money or support, we were taught to say ‘Thank you’. When I was growing up, young girls have little to no athletic opportunities. Yet when I speak with young female athletes today, all they can do is point out what they don’t have. I weep for America’s future.

        Living life with a sense of entitlement and victim-hood means that you will never achieve inner peace. It is no way to live.

        • Tikitaka

          I’m not going to apologize for wanting better and if that means I’m entitled so be it.
          People who know what they want and fight for what they want aren’t victims…

          • enoughalready

            What is exactly that you are fighting for? All the women on the USWNT are paid over $200,000 a year with great benefits. The NWSL women are paid poorly because the teams don’t make any money. For all it’s faults, FIFA does lose money on women’s soccer, while it makes billions off of men’s soccer. To expect FIFA to pay men and women the same is insane. In fact, the men were paid a smaller percentage of their world cup winnings then the women. The men were actually underpaid. The worldwide television ratings for women’s world cup was a fraction of the men’s world cup. That is why sponsors don’t pay the same amount of money. To expect sponsors to pay the same is insane. Although I have an appreciation for women’s soccer, most people around the world don’t. They know that the best women’s teams would get trounced by a poor men’s team. Even in liberal Europe, women’s pro teams average less than 3,000 per game. You can’t get blood from a stone, and you can’t pay money you don’t have. That is what I am saying to Abby. Stop blaming sexism for the fact that people are not buying your product. If any woman could play in a men’s league and they were banned, I would grab a picket sign and stand next to you and share a cup of fair trade organic coffee with you. I also ask you to pass the patchouli oil.

          • Tikitaka

            Let’s talk about safety within US Soccer: The fact that US Soccer reps don’t fly out to fields in advanced to check out the playing surface before scheduling a match. That’s pretty crumby, wouldn’t you agree? Or maybe that’s just me being entitled since girls back in the day tore their ACLs way less than they do now.
            The NWSL is paid poorly because teams don’t make any money? Neither does the MLS and their salaries are at least livable.
            The deficit between what FIFA makes on the women’s side compared to the men’s side is certainly not in the billions, and the predicted viewership of the 2015 WC was 46% higher than expected.
            There’s a lot of work to be done in the women’s game and a lot of it starts with youth development, which does take resources and money.
            For the record I’m not a big picketer, I don’t like coffee, but if you have any tea I’ll go halfsies, and I don’t have dreadlocks so no patchouli oil :/ I would potentially take you up on an offer for special brownies however…

          • Steglitz49

            Average attendances at MLS matches is greater than Portlands’s average.

          • Tikitaka

            That doesn’t change the fact that the league loses money, which was my point.

          • Steglitz49

            No. But why are spectators not flocking to NWSL matches? The US won this WC and played in the last final and has won all but one OG gold in soccer.

            Abby’s retirement match was watched by 33,000. Abby is up there with the top male soccer players. I guess it is possible that only 33,000 will turn up to watch Messi retire and pay as little as these tickets were. I doubt it though.

            In comparison, 30,000 went to the ladies FA cup final this year. Will it be repeated next year? Who knows? But, 33,000 for the retirement of one of the biggest names in WoSo in a country of 315 m souls … ?

            Someone did not get the marketing right, did they? Maybe they should have hired Alex’s agent?

          • Tikitaka

            Every time in the NWSL, besides the Flash, had at least a 10% increase in attendance post World Cup.

            I’m sure if Abby’s match was on a Saturday like the FA Cup final, and not a Wednesday, more people would have come. The world may never know

          • HOFCToDi

            Ignore the bitter Swedish troll. Notice the bitter Swedish troll neglects to mention the regular season attendance of the FA WSL.

            us.women.soccerway.com/national/england/wsl/2015/regular-season/r30536/

            Click the tab attendance under Tables for further details.

          • Steglitz49

            Ignore actuality and be economical with reality if it suits you but the real world is a harsh place.

            There is nothing wrong with the MLS-NWSL model but don’t pretend it is pure WoSo. It is WoSo subsidized by BroSo however you look at it. In the end the BroSo with the biggest war-chest wins.

          • Lorehead

            Not true. Both the MLS sister teams were profitable last year. You have some strange mental block about this.

          • Steglitz49

            It simply depends on how you book income and expenditure. What proportion of the ladies’ costs you book to the men’s organisation and which part of all the support from the MLS you actually list in the ladies’ ledger.

            However you look at it, it is a subsidy from the rich to the less rich. Granted, at some stage the ladies might turn a profit, though it depends on how you define profit in this case.

            Overall from Europe the majority of male fans accept a tax on the men’s game of 1% to subsidize the ladies and most, though far from all, male fans seem to just about swallow a 3% tax but they balk at a 5% subsidy of the ladies game.

            Granted even 1% from wealthy teams like Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Chelsea and Liverpool are chicken feed for the men but a queen’s ransome to the ladies. Yet, of those, only Arsenal has won the Champions League so far.

          • Lorehead

            No. I’m not wasting my time explaining this to you again, but everyone here but you understands why you’re wrong.

          • rkmid71

            It would be interesting to see the numbers. I think I would look at it more from an economic perspective vs. accounting. Does the marginal revenue exceed the marginal cost? Given all the infrastructure is already in place (and sunk cost), it seems to me that as long as MR>MC, then they are getting economies of scale by having WoSo. And perhaps intangible benefits that have value (expanding the fan base?). I probably need to look at your past explanations!

          • Lorehead

            Thank you for the reminder that some people here haven’t heard it all before! I was a bit short-tempered with someone who keeps repeating the same thing, word for word, without ever listening.

            You know this, but “profit” means a few different things in different contexts. We might ask whether the Dash break even, or whether it’s the very best investment the owners of the Dynamo could have made, and both of those questions would be relevant to decision-making. We might ask how to assign costs and revenues to the different branches of the organization: brother team, sister team, and stadium.

            You’ve basically hit the nail on the head, though. It’s reasonable to start from the assumption that the men’s team already exists, and ask, how much difference does the women’s team make to the bottom line of the organization as a whole. On that basis, the Thorns certainly make a profit and, if the postings I’ve read are accurate, the Dash broke even.

            It would be possible to count differently, but that doesn’t really matter: if we split the cost of leasing Providence Park down the middle, then suddenly the Thorns look a lot less profitable, but they make their brother team look a lot more profitable. Or if Peregrine Sports charged them higher rent for the stadium, then the Thorns would look less profitable, but the same owner’s stadium-rental business would look more profitable. What actually matters is, as you say, marginal revenue minus marginal cost.

          • Steglitz49

            There is profit before tax and there is profit after tax. Is there another profit?

          • rkmid71

            I will say this. My sense is that Lorehead is more knowledgeable on this than you or me. But you’re asking good questions. However, cash is king. Accounting is accounting. It seems to me (without knowing or having studied all the details) that new NWSL teams like Orlando are pursuing the right business model — working within an MLS club in a combined MLS-NWSL model and owning the stadium. I don’t see that as BroSo subsidizing WoSo. It is mutually beneficial in enhancing the profitability of both. In any investment, a big war-chest certainly helps as you can weather the storms. At the moment, WoSo standalone seems feasible in markets like Portland where you can consistently get good sized crowds, etc. or where stadium and other costs are reasonable and controllable. Also, in general, I wish the USWNT players and coaches would treat the NWSL (and the fans) with more respect — it would certainly help. Like Dunn in Washington, Press in Chicago, Sauerbrunn and Holiday in KC, etc.

          • Steglitz49

            I respectably disagree. Once he started talking about marginal this and marginal that, I was confirmed in the correctness of my view.

            I look at what WoSo receives from the MLS-team, that is the subsidy the ladies get from the men.

            He looks at what the ladies deliver to the MLS-team while ignoring the whole infrastructure that the MLS provides to the NWSL team — an infrastructure that would not be there if there was not an MLS team in the first place.

            In short, I am right and he is wrong.

          • rkmid71

            I don’t think we have to conclude someone is right or wrong. And it seems we might have to agree to disagree. You can call it a subsidy if you want, but it’s not like it’s costing the MLS club anymore than if they didn’t have an NWSL team. And to be accurate, it was me who brought up marginal this marginal that. Subsidy implies a cost or expense to someone. But that cost exists anyway. It’s stupid for NWSL teams to recreate the wheel or duplicate infrastructure — especially when MLS teams/clubs have spare or less than fully utilized capacity. And it’s smart for MLS clubs to seek ways to fully utilize their facilities. It’s normal business practice — no one calls it a subsidy. MLS teams aren’t doing it out of the goodness of their heart to help the ladies. It’s just smart business on both sides. If I was building/developing a NWSL team, that’s what I would do. It’s much less risky. BTW — all kinds of businesses in general seek “subsidies” or “incentives” all the time from Gov’t. I wouldn’t be surprised that MLS teams in fact rec’d such incentives when they got started.

          • Steglitz49

            It is not a chicken or egg conundrum. The MLS exists. Its gestation has been long but it is.

            Two professional WoSo leagues failed in the US. The NWSL breaks new ground by being subsidized and getting MLS-temas in to take on some of the costs.

            It is great because it might mean that pro-WoSo will exist in the US again and maybe last a bit longer.

            In a free market, a wealthy club like Arsenal, Barcelona or whichever would outbid the NWSL teams — but I forgte that to play for the USWNT you must play in the NWSL, which is against soccer belonging to the world.

            Arsenal did it because one of their staff persuaded management, Lyon did it because their Chairman decreed it, Chelsea’s Ladies survived because of John Terry and the Emir just paid in PSG, and, maybe, one fine day all those ladies teams will bring in marginal profits to their wealthy men’s clubs. Meanwhile those marginally supported WoSo teams can drive all the pure WoSo teams off the face of the earth– well, maybe not Frankfurt with their airport behind them and Potsdam with their superloyal fans ….

          • yet another guest

            A key to making the MLS/NWSL arrangements work is, as you note, the existing infrastructure and in particular the ownership/control of the stadium asset. For MLS teams that own/control the stadium the dozen or so NWSL games bring in revenue on days the stadium asset might otherwise be unused and when paid attendance is high enough to cover stadium operational cost the net is a positive revenue flow. Currently with salary cap (and WNT allocated player salaries covered by federations) holding down NWSL cost/expenses the positive revenue flow (on days the stadium asset would not otherwise be used) along with sponsorship money (jerseies etc same as any pro team) clearly produces a net profit in Portland (with 15k avg match attendance) and perhaps (if some reports/rumors are to be believed) in Houston (6k avg match attendance).

            The us soccer (and Canada and Mexico) federation support for NWSL is currently also clearly a key to NWSL financial survival but it appears that revenue/profit from USWNT matches and sponsorship $$ are the funding sources for this us soccer federation support.

          • rkmid71

            If true about revenue/profit from USWNT matches, I think your last paragraph implies that there is not as much subsidy from the men as some would think — at least in years like 2015. We need a business school case study to look at this — maybe there is one and we don’t know it!!

          • Lorehead

            US Soccer does disclose its audited financial statements, and they show that most of its revenues come from its sponsorship deal with Nike, its TV deal, and game-day revenues. A single deal covers the USMNT and USWNT, but USWNT TV ratings in 2015 were higher, and if you go look at the online stores at either US Soccer or Nike, all the merchandise for sale right now that isn’t a generic team jersey is either a USWNT World Cup T-shirt or a USWNT player jersey. So it’s safe to say that the women sold more merchandise than the men in 2015 and their broadcast rights were as valuable as any men’s matches other than against Mexico.

            As for game-day revenues, the men had some competitive home games against CONCACAF nations that sold extremely well, but the USWNT home friendlies sold as well or better than the USMNT home friendlies (again, except Mexico), their revenues are in the mid six figures per match, and there were more of them thanks to the sendoff and victory tours.

          • Steglitz49

            You need to compare the ladies world cup ratings with the men’s world cup AND remember that a network buys the ladies WC when they buy the mens WC plus agree to show a minimum number of hours.

            My memory is that the total viewing figures on TV for the final of the mens WC between Germany and Argentina was about the same as that between the US and Japan. It would be interesting to learn what the advert revenues to the broadcasters were.

          • Lorehead

            In the U.S., $40M for Fox Sports.

          • Steglitz49

            We are told the MLS make a profit. How can they when the USWNT is channeling money their way and the ladies play for less than living wages.

            You do not need a business school case study here. Just simple mathematics is enough. Look through and beyond the pixie dust.

          • Lorehead

            No, MLS claims to make a $100M loss. (In the context of a negotiation with the players’ union, so take that with a grain of salt.) You don’t know what you’re talking about.

          • Steglitz49

            A loss of $100m. 33 cents per man, woman and child in the US. Pull the other one.

            If you believe that, you believe anything.

          • Steglitz49

            Am I right to understand that you are explaining how money earned by the USWNT goes to line the pockets of owners of MLS teams? This is aided and abetted by a salary cap for the ladies that leave them without a living wage. Slaves iow.

            If not, what is your point?

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you for your support. Please see my reply with examples.

            Nothing hurts WoSo more than unrealistic attitudes and expectations. Realism is worth a ton of delusions.

          • Steglitz49

            Explain again. We, who live in a WoSo stand alone world, would love to learn how we can profit from men’s teams, who do not give a toss about us.

            Arsenal opened up Emirates stadium for a match against Chelsea Ladies. Kim Little was one of the gels that scored. 5,000 turned up in a city of 10-12 million. 5 million women — 5000 showed up, many of them men.

            Arsenal defrayed that. The leadership has promised to open up Emirates again when their Ladies think it might be justified. I have not the foggiest what it costs to rent Emirates stadium. It seats 60,000. But all credit to Arsenal for trying.

            Lyon and Wolfsburg moves important ladies matches to their men’s stadium. Liverpool and Everton cooperated — hard to imagine but they did — and rent a stadium together for their ladies. Maybe one day Anfield will be used for the ladies, not to speak of Goodison Park, one of the great days of ladies soccer many moons ago.

            Stop telling people in WoSo alone clubs how being linked with an MLS-team is not a subsidy because it is. Basta.

          • Lorehead

            Steglitz, define “marginal revenue” and “marginal cost.”

          • Steglitz49

            They do not exist in the WoSo-alone landscape. There is no “marginal”.

            In the MLS set-up there might be marginal this and marginal that but the WoSo teams funded by teams like Arsenal, Barca, Bayern, Chelsea, PSG etc etc do not need to concern themselves with the finer points of accounting.

            The ladies playing for WoSo-alone quickly understand and live by Mr Micawber.

          • Lorehead

            Never mind. I tried having a reasonable discussion, but you don’t understand economics. Please just stop making a fool of yourself, okay?

          • Steglitz49

            I do understand economics. I simply don’t confuse marginal profit with subsidy. I understand that there is profit before tax and after tax.

            If you are an appendage to a big structure, you may well turn in a marginal profit to your lords and masters but that is only because your true costs are not listed in your ledger. Your “marginal profit” is just a weasel word for the plain KJV English “subsidy”.

          • Lorehead

            Like I said, you don’t understand economics.

          • HOFCToDi

            Blah! Blah! Blah!

            The NWSL will proceed with a fourth season and tenth team without Steglitz49’s approval.

          • Steglitz49

            That 10th team is its 3rd MLS team, which was the point of my comment.

          • HOFCToDi

            No one remotely associated with US Soccer gives a damn what you think. Who the hell are you to decide in which manner the NWSL expands?

            You don’t have a clue about the American sports landscape.

            Thirty years ago, USWNT players were not even paid. It’s called progress and slow progress is better than no progress whatsoever.

            Fifty years ago, the NFL was considered a part time job. Now does that not sound familiar?

          • HOFCToDi

            Thirty years ago, USWNT players were not even paid. It’s called progress and slow progress is better than no progress whatsoever.

          • Lorehead

            To be pedantic, thirty years ago, when the first USWNT was organized for a 4-game tournament in Italy and went 0–3–1 (Is that why we never heard a peep about the anniversary?), its players were paid a $10 per diem.

          • HOFCToDi

            NCAA soccer players know the financial realities of professional soccer, yet over 140 college seniors applied for the 2015 NWSL College Draft.

            sportsworld.nbcsports.com/nwsl-players-chasing-the-dream/

          • Lorehead

            This is very true. I’ve said before that, if FIFA is serious about reforming itself, it will hand over power to the group of people who’ve demonstrated that they put the love of the game ahead of money: women who played for a pittance.

          • HOFCToDi

            You don’t have a clue about the American sports landscape nor its history.

            You are a bitter loser, a clueless moron, and a worthless troll.

          • weltmeister

            you are so stupid, a american with no idea of football

          • HOFCToDi

            You have proven to be nothing more than a worthless German troll.

          • Steglitz49

            Why was it not on a Saturday or Sunday?

          • guest

            i think the VT games were scheduled months before abby made her uswnt retirement announcement. it would be nice to have the games on the weekend anyway but i guess it’s a cost issue.

          • guest

            peak times means peak rates

          • Steglitz49

            Too true.

          • Steglitz49

            A 10% increase after winning the WC. Vow! Knock me over with a feather. Why was it not a doubling?

            The NWSL teams all play in large conurbations. No shortage of warm bodies to fill the stands.

          • enoughalready

            No, but the MLS owners are willing to take losses because they believe that the MLS has the potential to make money in future. This is based on the fact that men’s soccer teams throughout the world have proven to make money over an extended period of time. Their willingness to fund the MLS is neither based on charity nor is it because they want to support their fellow males. It is because they believe in the future, their teams will be worth a lot money. I don’t dispute the fact that there is sexism in the sports world, and I don’t dispute the fact that women athletics faced a lot of sexism in the past. But the facts are that there is no history of any women’s team sports league being profitable. Title IX has been around for 40 years and almost every woman’s basketball team loses money (even Tennessee and Connecticut.) The WNBA has been around for almost 20 years, and most of the teams lose money. All the women’s soccer teams in Europe lose money and many of them have been around for 20 years. Are they treated the same as the men’s leagues, no. Do men’s sports receive corporate welfare tax breaks, yes they do. But until women’s team sports prove they can make money, investors will stay away and those that do invest will pull out sooner than they would for a men’s league. Trust me, bankers and investors would invest in a ISIS soccer league if they were confident it would make money.

          • Tikitaka

            The Thorns and the Dash are proof that women’s soccer can make money. I know that’s only two teams, but considering the league has only been around for 3 full seasons that’s not bad. The MLS has been around 20 years and still only a handful of teams make a profit, and the league as a whole, since it’s not an open market, hasn’t made money either. I’m glad no one has thrown in the towel, because I personally believe the MLS will be successful because the interest of soccer is growing, and I think the same thing goes for the NWSL. The landscape of women’s soccer is changing. It’s getting more physcial, technical and entertaining. There does have to be a mindset to change. A lot of people right off women’s soccer before they even experience. Same way a lot of people right off MLS before they experience. There’s a lot of ignorance, but people are coming around.

            I got a kick out of your last sentence. Well played.

          • Lorehead

            Bottom line: most men’s teams don’t make money either. The NFL is an exception.

            It’s worth noting that most BroSo teams, especially when you get below the first-division superstar leagues, don’t make money. I don’t really believe MLS lost $100 million last year in any meaningful sense, but MLS doesn’t make money.

            And recall: DC United will soon start playing in a new stadium that the city subsidized to the tune of $160 million for the land and improvements, plus $40 million in tax breaks over the next ten years. The franchise itself was only worth about $75 million, before that deal. The Washington Spirit will not get to play there. Why not? It isn’t as politically favored. This is what people mean when they say men’s soccer is more profitable.

            In other leagues in the U.S., the NBA commissioner said that “a significant number” of teams in that league lose money; other reports say that number is ten. (A few years ago, the number was 22.) Despite the myth that men’s college football and basketball are cash cows, the NCAA reports that most of those programs lose money. Most NHL teams lose money.

            Internationally, many BroSo teams are notorious for being subsidized by rich “sugar daddy” fans. But most of them, around the world, lose money. They’re bought by people who like football, and the prestige of owning the local club, and the chance to network with important people.

          • guest

            Only a few years ago (about 1997 thru 2006) MLS avg was 15k or less so the 15k Portland Thorns averaged in 2015 is good attendance even when compared to MLS.
            Now I agree we do need to get NWSL attendance up for other teams and reaching MLS may not be a reachable goal, but already the NWSL league wide 5k avg is close to the NASL (men’s 2nd div league) avg (5k or 6K in recent years)

          • Steglitz49

            Everyone interested in WoSo wants WoSo to succeed. That much is obvious.

            Maybe the NWSL can find the way forward. Let’s hope so.

            I just don’t see how the MLS model differs from Arsenal having supported their ladies since 1987 and Lyon putting real money into their ladies game 8-10 years ago and PSG 5 years ago.

            One of the few stand alone WoSo teams that can compete now is Frankfurt because of their strong sponsorship deals.

          • guest

            Key diffence seems to be that due to acceptable (15k avg in Portland, 6k avg in Houston) and growing attendance for NWSL matches the MLS owners were able to turn a smallish investment in NWSL team into a new revenue stream that is returning a profit. The soccer knowledgable public in England/Europe may also (at some point) catch onto and support woso with sufficient attendance such that wealthy Englich/European clubs are also seeing growth and a positive return on their woso investments.

            For MLS teams who do not own/control their own soccer specific stadiums as well as for NWSL teams that do not own/control stadium facilities making the financials work is clearly much more of a challenge. However there are NWSL team owners who continue to make the investment amid hope that attendance and sponsorship for NWSL will grow and eventually become financially stable. The MLS teams/leagues/owners also went thru a many year struggle to grow so expectations/hopes for NWSL growth need to be tempered by financial and attendance/media/sponsorship realities.

          • HOFCToDi

            Orlando City SC owns Orlando City Stadium, a soccer-specific stadium that will open no later the 2017 MLS Season.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_City_Stadium

          • Steglitz49

            I think we got that a while back. Marginal profits works when you own the shebang. There is no margin for the WoSo-alone setups.

            The real difference is that the wealthy men’s teams are not (yet) bothered about loss. Last season Bayern Munich made a record profit after tax of $25.2 million on a turnover of $555 million. I gather the MLS 2015 team salary ceiling is about $3.5m. Maybe the MLS-teams need that marginal profit pumped their way from the USWNT?

          • Lorehead

            One reason I expect more MLS teams to go this route is that every MLS team for about two years now has been required to have a third-division feeder team in USL Pro. And those play in stadiums about the right size for most NWSL teams. If you already own a small SSS, owning a NWSL team to play there is a much better business proposition. And if you’re trying to get a government subsidy to build one, promising to put a NWSL team in it is a way to promise higher tax revenues and more people visiting local restaurants.

            Besides, I think there are a lot of owners who like the idea of owning a WoSo team and getting a piece of the goodwill attached to the USWNT, or just want to keep up with the Joneses. They’ll be willing to lose a small amount of money on it.

          • Over It

            SLAYY!!!

      • Anson

        The Woe is me attitude, Title 9, take care of me entitlement attitude by women is getting sicking! My girls laugh at this attitude daily. Teach your girls to grow up independent and strong. Able to stand on their own 2 feet and not feed off of others. They will grow-up with more confidence and be able to control their own lives!

        • Tikitaka

          How is this a woe-is-me attitude? Why should people bend over backwards for people who start to treat them as equals? There’s a lot of work to be done in women’s soccer and I accept that and progress has been made. There’s also a lot of BS that goes on behind the scenes that is unacceptable i.e. Victory Tour game in Hawaii.

          I think the strongest and most independent mindset is to know you’re worth more than mediocrity. Hope your girls don’t laugh at that attitude…

    • Ethan

      Interesting, Messi plays in the EPL?

      The EPL is the most physical league in the world, and for fairly obvious reasons, I think female players would have the most difficulty playing in that league. Tons of male players play in La Liga, Bundesliga, and other leagues because of the relative lack of physicality.

      Women’s teams don’t make as much money because they don’t receive interest from anywhere near as many supporters. Women couldn’t even legally play in England until the 1970s. So, they’re just supposed to show complete gratitude to the support given to them from men? Maybe, if there hadn’t been so many restrictions/negative views in the past, women would be playing at an even higher level today.

      Sure, Wambach doesn’t play at Donovan or Messi’s level. That doesn’t change the fact that she was one of the greatest players to play women’s football, and I don’t blame the highest performers in any field wanting to get paid a higher amount. Those male players you’re talking about who don’t get paid a lot? Take a look at the lowest earners in the NWSL.

      I thought people were mentioning the Thorns and the Dash making a profit. Maybe not the greatest one but one nevertheless.

      • another guest

        many of the details listed in “comonsenddude” posting are not accurate, but given the caveman/man cave or whatever century the attitudes being expressed are coming from, probably best to remember the “don’t feed the trolls” advice your mother or some other wise woman once gave you

        • commonsensedude

          what is inaccurate? Fact1, the profits from the Florida men’s football and basketball pay for the Florida women’s soccer program. Fact2, most women on the Florida women’s soccer program are white and from middle class backgrounds. Fact3, most men from the football and basketball program are African American and from poor backgrounds. Fact4 the WUSA lost over 100 million dollars in 3 years. Fact5, although the exact figures were released, the losses from the WPS are thought to be in the tens of millions of dollars. Fact6, most, if not all, the owners in the WUSA and WPS were men. Fact7, the USWNT has been supported by the men’s team throughout it’s life time. If may no longer be the case, but for many years it was. Fact8, the NWSL is subsidized by the USSF whose major sources of funding is the US men’s National team. Fact9, if it wasn’t for the money and support provided by the USSF, the NWSL would not exist. Fact10, women’s professional soccer in every country loses money. Often these teams are supported by men’s teams (PSG, Bayern Munich, Arsenal, dtc). Fact11, most male professional athletes don’t make enough money throughout their career to retire.

          • another guest

            F1. Athletic dept budget includes money from many sources (school/gov, alumni donations, student fees etc) in addition to tickets rev, media and sponsorship associated with FB/BB and the relatively small budget amounts for many/most non-big-revenue sports (men & women) are often covered by those other sources which is why schools without big FB or without profitable fb still provide those other sports. Florida is one of the big FB schools that does turn a profit but not all big FB schools do (recent WP article used Auburn and Rutgers as 2 recent examples of big schools where athletic departments were running in the red). All those other sources of budget money (even ticket sales, media and sponsor) are from the general public and/or taxes/fees – so we all (male & female – tax/fee payers, ticket buyers, product consumers) are providing support for the non-revenue sports.
            F2 and F3, I do not know the race/family income etc of the woso or fb rosters – and since I do not know I would not be comfortable with a broad brush generalization –
            F.4 and F5 yes WUSA and WPS lost money and some players salaries were out of line (the reported 500K for Marta) but poor unsustainable business plans, poor decisions and top heavy league operations are much more responsible for loses than the players.
            F6 as you now qualified most/but not all owners were male
            for what it is worth, both male and female exec’s and owners made the poor decisions.
            F7. Neither USMNT nor USWNT has always generated sufficient revenue thru tickets sales alone to support the amounts spent on the teams hence the dependance on sponsors, TV deals etc to make the “non profit” USSF budget work. Via “non profit” status, tickets/sponsors/media we all (male and female) are providing the $$$ that support USSF. As you note recently the USWNT is generating revenue thru tickets sales that comes much closer to covering USWNT expenses. Budget for both USWNT and the larger USMNT budget depend on sponsorship/media etc to balance but it is not accurate to say that USMNT supports USWNT
            F9 agree that USSF support is necessary for NWSL but $$$ and non profit tax breaks etc for USSF come from all of us.
            F10 Portland (and one anticipates Houston and Orlando) is generating attendance (15k attendance avg in 2015) sufficient to be profitable and to demonstrate that woso can grow to be profitable (like Portland and by some reports Houston) where the added NWSL teams are making (modest) profits for the MLS teams
            F11 – basically all athletes have relatively short active careers so I do not have a problem with any player (man or women) who tries to improve salary/benefits etc

          • Lorehead

            I’ve fisked the guy before. He doesn’t pay attention or learn anything, just repeat the same false comments.

          • Steglitz49

            Not all his comments seem that far off the mark. A bit uncomfortable for the dyed in the wool WoiSo tiffosi, maybe.

          • Lorehead

            The entire premise of the rant, which is that WoSo is supposedly kept alive as a charity and paid for by BroSo, is false. You seem to make the same assumption yourself, for some inexplicable reason.

          • AlexH

            But Steg’s assumption isn’t false at all. It may be an exaggeration to say that woso would be dead with out broso, but it is absolute truth that woso is massively subsidized at all levels and that most of that subsidy comes from revenue streams generated by men’s sports.

            On the bright side, I think the dynamic may be changing as evidenced by the huge ratings that the WWC got and the fact that the WNT sells a bunch of tickets. However if Abby really wants woso to succeed she would be better served trying to convince people to watch games and buy tickets rather than being some sort of political evangelist.

          • Lorehead

            Not every claim in the original anonymous post was false. For example, her college team really wasn’t profitable on its own (Although her school’s men’s football and basketball teams probably lost money, too, so the belief that men’s sports subsidize the women is false. Backers subsidize all sports at most schools.) But, for example, the USWNT does make money, and none of her WUSA, WPS or NWSL teams was subsidized by a brother team; they all had owners with deep pockets.

          • Steglitz49

            Now you are quoting me, to wit: — “Not all his comments seem that far off the mark.”

            Thank you for your support.

          • Lorehead

            So what? His conclusion was, even though he mixed some real facts into his post.

          • AlexH

            I think part of controversy surrounding what Abby wants is due to the fact that Abby isn’t very clear on what it is she wants. Everybody is for respect and equality but at the end of the day checks have to be written.

            Granted, Abby has had a busy couple of months so I never expected specifics but now that her new career of “changing the world” has begun maybe she can come out with a list of, say, 10 specific things that need to happen, how much they will cost, and who will pay for it.

          • Steglitz49

            No politician does that. They speak in generalities like “Time for a Change” and “Together we can” and insert your own platitude, etc etc.

          • Steglitz49

            Your are being economical with the truth. Well to do male backers give money to the male Grid-iron and basket sections. Because of the blessed Title IX, some of that money has to be passed to women’s sports.

            Thus the male backers indirectly support women’s sport within the NCAA system. They do this via the boy’s sports because if there were no boy’s grid-iron or basket, there would be no money to pass on to the lasses.

          • Lorehead

            So it’s a system where women have fewer opportunities because wealthy men choose to donate money only to give young men opportunities and not young women. Isn’t that decision open to criticism?

          • mockmook

            You are free to criticize this.

            But, what do you want to do? Force these men to DONATE in a way they don’t want to?

          • Lorehead

            That’s a good question. Here’s where I am right now on it.

            When we look at the situation, there are a lot of different things we could say, and this list is not close to being exhaustive:

            A. No problem here. There is no ethical dimension to which sports we support. If this is so, we should legalize dog fighting and give Michael Vick a full pardon and apology to go along with his millions of dollars.

            B. No problem here. Eew, girls have cooties and girls playing sports isn’t natural and they’re just jealous God loves us more than them! This was the dominant attitude through the ’70s, but only one or two drive-by trolls say that today to get a rise out of us. I don’t feel any need to waste any time convincing readers on a blog dedicated to a women’s sport that this is wrong; I’ll just stipulate that it is.

            C. No problem here. The status quo is morally right, regardless of the consequences for real people in the real world, because it is the result of the current system. No. First, I’m a consequentialist. Second, the current system is corrupt, massively-subsidized, indefensible cronyism. Calling it a free market would be fatuous. I bring up the new soccer stadium built with an nine-figure sum of public money in DC, only for the men and not the women, pretty often because, for various culture-war reasons, the people who usually take this position don’t want to defend that example of it, but it’s not even an egregious example by modern standards.

            If we’re not going with some variant of “No problem here,” then there is a problem here and we should do something about it.

            D. We could watch only sports where men have no natural advantage over women. For example, target shooting, riding, driving and flying. This might work in a utopia where everybody could agree to like those sports and give up soccer, football, basketball, cricket, baseball and so on. But we like what we like and I don’t want anybody taking my sports away from me.

            Most of my other ideas were even sillier than that: we’re not going to start doping our daughters to make them just as tall and strong as men, and we’re not going to stop treating athletes like heroes.

            E. We could play sports where men are naturally better than women, but ensure that women have their own niche and that the best women get equal treatment. This is pretty much what we’ve hit on, more by default than because it’s a great system in principle. When push comes to shove, we aren’t really willing to spend as much money on women’s sports as men’s sports, but gestures of respect are cheap. Fortunately, it turns out that people really are willing to pay money to watch women play soccer, so we don’t need to subsidize them by too much.

          • mockmook

            I was only addressing people who donate their own money to their own pet causes. Surely, you agree we shouldn’t force them to donate to causes they don’t support, right?

          • Lorehead

            I don’t feel like arguing about a position I never advocated in the first place. Sorry.

          • mockmook

            I never asked you to argue, I asked what your position was because you made it sound as if you thought a benefactor should not have a say in where their money went.

          • Lorehead

            Oh, okay then.

            I don’t much like Internet shame mobs and I don’t think this is a big enough problem to pass a law about. I think it would be better for anyone to donate his or her money to a more important cause than helping one sports team win. However, if you’re a sports fan and that’s how you want to spend your money, I’ll have more respect for you if you at least spend some of that money on a women’s sports team and treat the women on it decently.

          • Steglitz49

            Tell that to Man Utd.

          • Lorehead

            But, so the point doesn’t get lost among all those digressions: I brought this up because the anonymous troll incorrectly believed that men’s college sports are profitable and subsidize the women, Abby Wambach is being ungrateful. And that premise is not sound. College ball is subsidized. The NFL, NBA and MLS are subsidized. Chelsea and Manchester United are extremely subsidized. He also said that a situation where most sports fans are male and spend more money subsidizing men’s sports than women’s sports does not meet his definition of “sexism.” I don’t see the point in arguing semantics when we can instead talk about the concrete facts of the situation. But, look, if Gil Pfinte, the founder of Ike-Nay, announced that he was donating a million dollars to help boys play sports or learn math or play musical instruments, and not girls, because who cares about girls, not him, people would put social pressure on him until he felt compelled to donate something to give girls equal opportunity.

          • mockmook

            Good grief — didn’t expect to go so far into the weeds again.

            But, since you brought it up:

            Would you want to put social pressure on a benefactor who only donated to Breast Cancer causes and not any male dominated cancers?

          • Lorehead

            No, because I don’t want people to stop donating to cure either breast cancer or prostate cancer. Either one is a much better cause to donate money to than the football team at the school you went to.

          • mockmook

            I give up — as long as someone supports what you want, they are free to donate as they please, but if they don’t, you are ready to join the barricades and boycotts.

          • Lorehead

            Didn’t I say the exact opposite of that?

            Breast cancer kills almost 225,000 women and more than 2,000 men a year. I think that a cure is a worthy cause to donate to, unlike college sports. If someone believes in principle that their donation should benefit an equal number of women and men, that’s fine too, and my advice is to split their donations between breast cancer and some other disease that kills more men than women, such as heart disease. Or just donate to cure heart disease. I won’t get hung up on it. If you want your money to do as much good as possible, you might want to research Effective Altruism.

          • mockmook

            I merely brought up a very simple hypothetical. You’ve turned it into The Greatest Sociological Issue Ever Conceived.

            First, you brought up your ten (or whatever) streams of consciousness.

            Then, you made the hypothetical donor to only boys into a girl hating monster.

            Then, because I asked a simple question, you start lecturing me that I need to research Effective Altruism.

            For someone who doesn’t want an argument, you sure seem to throw out a ton tendentious points.

          • Lorehead

            I’m diving into first principles here and going into digressions. I don’t think we’re really disagreeing on the concrete issue at all. Neither one of us wants to stop Phil Nike from donating to the University of Oregon athletic department, and some of that money does go to women’s teams, thanks largely to Title IX, which you and I also both support.

          • Steglitz49

            The simple solution is to apply Title IX to donations at full 50/50, not just as “some of that money”.

            If a donor wants to give $1m to the men’s basket program, then the NCAA rules should state that 50% must pass to the ladies basket program.

            Likewise if someone wants to give grid-iron $10m, then $5m must be distributed to ladies sports and only $5m can be for grid-iron.

            Granted, donors and college accountants will figure out ways to get round such rules but at worst they will skew them to 75/25 and probably only to 67/33.

          • Steglitz49

            That is why he does not like it when you call him off-side.

          • Lorehead

            That said, there have been periods of history when all doctors and most donors were male, and women’s diseases were not considered important. That was a real problem. A hypothetical situation where men’s health were getting similarly ignored would be bad too, but I don’t worry about it because it doesn’t happen.

          • Lorehead

            But, okay, more first principles. I’m a consequentialist, not a virtue ethicist or a deontologist. I think a system that produces bad results is a bad system, even if nobody intended them to happen and everybody has a right to do what they’re doing, and that people should be encouraged to change a bad system.

          • Steglitz49

            He would class the one as a marginal donation in his language and the other a discriminatory subsidy.

          • Steglitz49

            Who subsidizes Chelsea and Man Utd?

            Man Utd closed their ladies section about 10 years ago, against an outcry. They did not care about the women.
            In 2009 Chelsea was headed the same way when John Terry intervened. It has since become known that he had helped the ladies before.

            Ever since John Oliver’s rant, we know how much American male sports are subsidized by the tax-payers. Why women have not managed to get even a tranche of that loot is an interesting question.

          • Lorehead

            I meant Man City. Their owners; the “sugar daddies.”

          • Steglitz49

            Man City has a women’s section.

            In 2012 Man City took on a little ladies club started in 1988, that called themselves Man City Ladies and played in kit they bought at the Man City store.

            In return, the Man City leadership forced the FA to give them an automatic place in the FAWSL1 — maybe this was where the NWSL got their MLS expansion idea from? Last season Man City won the Conti cup, defeating Arsenal Ladies in the final.

          • Lorehead

            I know we forget about them sometimes, but they have a men’s team too. Even PSG and Bayern do!

          • Steglitz49

            Indeed. But. Real as in Real Salt Lake City and Madrid don’t.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you for your insight — and your support

      • Tikitaka

        Not sure about the Dash, but the Thorns made their organization a million dollars in 2014, probably even more this past season.

        • Steglitz49

          It depends on your book-keeping, doesn’t it?

          • Lorehead

            No. It does not.

      • commonsensedude

        I don’t disrespect the abilities of female player, in fact quite the opposite. I respect their abilities. In several interviews, Abby complained that she has to get a job while Landon Donovan does not. And because of that, the soccer world is sexist. If she were a qualified electric engineer and she was barred from higher paying jobs, she would have a point. But in her chosen field, soccer, she does not have the ability to compete with the men. Women’s soccer is an entertainment product, and throughout the world (even in liberal open minded, tolerant Europe) the product does not sell. Both men and women consumers prefer men’s soccer. Think about it, it is like opening up an all women’s restaurant besides the most popular restaurant in town and saying ‘Go to our restaurant because we have female chefs’. While feminist and liberal men may support it, most people would make a choice based on the quality of food, not the feminist angle. My point is that women’s professional soccer is a product. It is a product which most consumers have rejected. They have rejected because they perceive the men’s product as superior. That is not sexist, it is their preference. For Abby to blame sexism on why she isn’t paid more is like a professional Dart player blaming Dartism for why he isn’t paid more.

        • enoughalready

          While I agree that if it wasn’t for the past, perhaps the women would be playing at a higher level now, it doesn’t change the fact that elite male athletes are stronger, faster, and have more endurance. Because of that men’s will always be able to beat women in soccer no matter how well trained and conditioned they are. And because of that consumers will prefer men’s soccer. That is not sexist, just a fact. You and I may prefer women’s soccer, but the rest of the world does not. I don’t dispute the sexism of the past, but that doesn’t change biology. Because of the biological fact that men are stronger and faster, consumers will buy more tickets and more people will watch on TV. Because of the higher TV ratings and attendance, companies will be willing to pay more money for Advertisements. That translates into higher salaries for the men’s players. To blame sexism for this is just plain rubbish.

          • Steglitz49

            You are living dangerously with this blunt language.

            Learn some PC-jargon. It is not that hard. Just don’t mention the power of body paint.

        • Guest

          CommonsenseDUDE, you need to stop.

          • Steglitz49

            It took you 15 hours to notice him. Better late than never, I guess Guest — whoever you may be.

    • AlexH

      Thanks for your “Inconvenient Post”

      • Steglitz49

        What’s Margaret Thatcher got to do with all this?

  • mskillens

    Did she really delete her twitter account?

    • Nicole C.

      Yes, and her Instagram.

    • Hwah

      It’s a publicity thing, sponsored by Gatorade, her accounts will go back up soon, as she is reborn after soccer.

  • Ethan

    The greatest players aren’t forgotten though. Have Pele and Maradona been forgotten? Has Hamm been forgotten? Will Messi and Ronaldo be forgotten? That doesn’t mean the success that Wambach hopes for won’t come. Nevertheless, I do like the sentiment behind Wambach’s message.

    I pretty much love everything about the second video.

    • Steglitz49

      Maradona cheated.

      The fact that you don’t use Cruyff as an example suggests that being forgotten is a possibility.

      Where are the Grenoli remembered except in Milan and Sweden?

      Will we remember Sawa or Miyama? We ought to but will we?

      • Ethan

        I just felt like mentioning the most well-known ones. Of course, there’s also Cruyff, Ronaldo, Maldini, Lilly, Akers, Smith, etc. I will definitely remember Sawa and Miyama.

        • Steglitz49

          I suspect it is a generational thing. In 20 years we ought to remember Abby but even Marta may be gone from public consciousness.

          Who (wants to) remember 8-1 in 1981? (except the Russians)

          I think Ronaldo will be forgotten. Akers and Smith seem to already, judging by the commentators on the EQ.

          Cruyff like Liedholm (the Li in the Grenoli) went on to have great coaching careers and trained up assistants who in turn have been successful. Both brought innovations to the game both playing and as coaches.

          King Eric is forgotten, except maybe in Manchester, while Zlatan will be remembered in Sweden but there are only 9m of them.

      • rkmid71

        What about Nikolai Ranevich and those other Soviet players in the “Death Match of 1942”? They made a movie about them. I think Sawa & Miyama and Japan WNT will be remembered — how they captivated their country still recovering from the earthquake and tsunami. Their WC win goes beyond soccer — inspirational, fate.That Sawa 117th minute flick off the Miyama corner to tie was insane.They will make a movie someday. In the U.S., I noticed that a new Hall of Fame will be built at Toyota Stadium in Frisco, TX. The old one was shutdown in 2009. I think there are 8 women players currently Hall of Famers (Heinrichs, Jennings-Gabarra, Higgns-Cirovski, Akers, Fawcett, Hamm, Foudy, Lilly).

        • Lorehead

          And they’ll change the villains to the English.

        • Steglitz49

          Indeed. WC-11 had a superstructure like WC-54. It had the underdog beating the favorites. Drama by the spadeful.

          It was Miyama’s and Sawa’s Cup. Yet, the PR-machine has made it all about Abby’s header and Alex in the final. Is it too much to ask for WoSo to pull together for the common good? To join reality?

        • Steglitz49

          I think the quote you were looking for was: ‘The Allies won the war but Ukraine paid the bill.’

    • guest

      Ronaldo doesn’t come close to being on the same level as Messi, Pele and Maradona, unless you’re talking about R9.

      • Ethan

        I mention Ronaldo because he’s been battling exclusively with Messi for FIFA’s Best Player/Ballon d’Or award for the last five years, and he’s won the last two. That’s not something that’s easy to forget. I mention “R9” in my response to Steglitz49 though.

        • Steglitz49

          This sounds like the “Sugar Ray” business.

  • NYRick

    I think they are trying to mimic the old Jordan Nike “I Fail” commercial, and that can’t be replicated for emotion or impact. That was a classic and felt so real. This line gives it away right here: “Forget me – because the day I’m forgotten is the day we will succeed.” Cue the hankies. Sorry it doesn’t work. It doesn’t feel real.

    Look she deserves all her accolades (and she is certainly milking this for all it’s worth and I’m not blaming her for that), and no problem making some nice paper from Gatorade on the closing party, but we are getting a little overdramatic now. Some ambitious copywriter is trying to win a Clio with the dialogue.

    In reality, a player or person “doesn’t want to leave a legacy…” Think about that for a second. That is impossible, you don’t get to do that. A legacy is either there for what it is or it’s not. It is something that just is, you don’t control it or get to manipulate it. A legacy is about a body of work for a career, not a ninth inning adjustment to the way you want to be perceived. Abby deserves her praise no doubt. She has impacted women’s sports in a big way and I’m sure an inspiration for many and she will continue to be. But what we are seeing in this commercial is a marketing gimmick. It’s not authentic, but a manipulation to the profile of an utopian athlete who wants to be perceived as a unicorn. And she wasn’t that by any means.

    • Steglitz49

      “Forget me for such as I am all true players are …” — to misquote the Bard.

    • SpiritFan00

      Agreed. The Gatorade commercial was painful to me — the inauthenticity made me really cringe.

      • rkmid71

        For me, it wasn’t really cringe — it was more simply overdone and got redundant / boring. The commentary by her teammates, the little kids, Mia Hamm, JE, President Obama, etc. And now the commercial. And I’ll be honest, I thought Lloyd’s comments were respectful, but very curt, brief. I observe that Lloyd has been the one with all the heroics, but getting less attention over the years. Unfortunately for her, now that she’s finally getting attention, she’s on the back part of her career and downslope.They could have spent 1/2 the time with tribute and 1/2 focused on what’s next, how the team is coming together for Olympic qualifying and OG. Instead it was 100% focused on Wambach. Also, what’s going to happen with Rampone? Are we going to have to go through the same thing? Frankly, I doubt it. Between her and Wambach, she should have retired first.

        • mockmook

          Rampone is done — we are just waiting for the paperwork to clear.

          • kevin

            but is rampone gonna sign the paperwork? lol guess we will know if she shows up for the olympic qualifying or not.

          • mockmook

            My theory is she is leaning toward retirement, but then Abby announced and Rampone didn’t find a good time to do her own (probably hoping to not go out while still injured).

        • Terry Lash

          While I agree that it is past the optimum time for Rampone to retire, I disagree that she should have retired before Wambach. Ramona’s decline is much more recent than Wambach’s, based on watching Wambach play for the Washington Spirit in person several years ago and on broadcasts (mostly) since.

          • Steglitz49

            I sometimes wonder what would have happened if germany had won that SF?

            We shall never know, well understood, but would the Veterans have insisted on 4 more years?

          • Lorehead

            The hostility toward Abby Wambach for doing what basically all pro athletes do and playing as long as their bodies let them is strange. If you were in her financial situation in 2015, I doubt you’d say, “I’ll just pass up a few million dollars, retire at age 35, and take a day job with what I’ve saved up from my low five-figure salary in the NWSL. Let’s see, what’s my work experience? I’ve played soccer basically full-time since I was a child.”

            In fact, though, she did publicly say before the World Cup, “This will be my last World Cup.”

          • Tikitaka

            Haters gonna hate.

          • Steglitz49

            Abby got away with it because the SF ref did not send JJ off.

          • Lorehead

            Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Why, the USWNT should be last in the world rankings because no game they’ve ever won should count! Of course the ref was indisuputably right not to send off Leonie Maier, and if she had sent off only Johnston, Célia Šašić would surely have made her PK and then the U.S. would not have scored the two goals it did, or maybe Germany would have scored two more, or maybe one of each, but anyway, surely Europe, home of true football, is the moral victor of that match.

          • Steglitz49

            We can agree that the quality of WoSo refereeing must be improved.

          • Guest

            The hostility towards Wambach is probably misplaced but I don’t think she was good enough this year to make the roster let alone be starting games in the WC. I think the sentimental roster choices need to be removed from future squads.

          • Steglitz49

            Certainly if the refereeing improves.

          • Lorehead

            She ended up scoring a game-winning goal, which was more than Leroux or Rodriguez did and as much as Press.

          • Guest

            She was effective on set pieces and completely ineffective for the rest of open play. If she was coming off the bench while the US was behind I might feel differently. She wasn’t and was actively hurting the offense while starting. Press, Arod, and Syd were all more effective and dangerous from open play than Wambach and played less minutes.

          • Lorehead

            Sydney Leroux was terrible in her few minutes, and was very lucky not to get called for a handball on the goal line against Sweden, which would effectively have cost us first place in the group. Right after the World Cup was over, she had ankle surgery.

          • Guest

            She also assisted the game winner against Australia. I am open to the suggestion that the seriousness of her surgery should have seen her excluded from the rosterbut I still saw her as more of a threat from open play than Wambach.

          • Guest

            Also since you are a Thorns fan I have a question. Did Boxx deserve to make the squad over Allie Long? Allie Long will likely never get a chance to be on a world cup team now and it isn’t because she didn’t deserve to make the squad.

          • Steglitz49

            The US got away with a lot in this WC. No-one remembers it down the line.

            I propose that FIFA put at least 10 of all those millions they have in their frozen coffers into developing top notch women referees. WoSo can’t get respect till all of WoSo sparks on all cylinders.

    • Lorehead

      There are no new ideas, I guess, but it didn’t sound like the same message to me. As for authenticity: it’s reverse psychology, but doesn’t she really want the next crop of kids on the USWNT to do well?

      I remember Jordan being interviewed about that ad and saying something to the effect of: How many times did I say I took the winning shot and missed? I never really counted or thought about that; it was just in the script. What Abby said was more authentic than that.

      • Steglitz49

        Body paint was a new idea — and it worked marvels.

  • MARTA TRUE G.O.A.T

    Daniela Alves tore her ligaments in WPS
    and was forced to retire because of Wambach. Nobody says that ??? OK OK

    • rkmid71

      I’ve said it many times just not on this thread. I saw it live and agree with you. It was unacceptable. I stopped being a Wambach fan at that moment. And her not really taking responsibility afterwards was worse. So I don’t have much sympathy now when not everyone sings her praises. My recollection is that Daniela (one of Brazil’s “fantastic four”) had scored two goals in that game prior to Wambach violently taking her out. Trust me, it was no 50/50 challenge. I’m hoping that when the USWNT and US fans show up in Brazil next summer they can stop by and pay their respects to Daniela.I wonder what she’s up to these days? I read somewhere she was working in and/or owned a butchery in Sao Paulo? Keeps things in perspective.

      • Steglitz49

        Winning at all costs, justifying the means by the ends and playing beyond your natural span, carries a price tag. It sometimes comes back to haunt you.

      • kevin

        what were people saying about the tackle at the time? did people think it was intentional? was it payback for abby’s broken leg prior to the olympics? i thought abby’s injury was a result of a brazil defender. was daniela even involved in that incident? there is a very short clip of daniela’s injury play on youtube.

        • LadiesinCleats4

          Yea I saw the clip too. Abby does get the ball. I didn’t see anything vicious personally.

        • rkmid71

          Ref somehow only gave a yellow, but after the fact league reviewed and she was suspended. The ref let the game get out of control. St. Louis had been physical with Wambach all game — basically dishing out as much they received. I recall Solo (on Daniela’s team) commenting after that Wambach let her emotions get the best of her. Basically Wambach had been complaining about the physical play against her. You can never prove intent and I’m sure she had regrets after the fact. But in the heat of the moment, she was looking to do some damage — maybe not consciously looking to injure her in the way it happened. It was a very odd place on the field to go in for a hard slide tackle. Definitely dangerous, reckless and totally unnecessary. It was right after a kickoff and Daniela was simply looking to pass back. And she went right through her leg to get the ball. Not just ligaments, but broke her leg too.

          • Breakers fan

            I have never heard about this, which shows I didn’t follow that league closely. I wonder if there is a clip available of it. The guest below disagrees with you, which raises at least some question about it, though I do not doubt you that, from your description, it was a heat of the moment, overly aggressive act that probably had a personal emotional connection to a Brazil player breaking her leg prior to the ’11 Olympics. That is another play i don’t recall and would have to try to see, to discover the vicious-level or not of it.

          • rkmid71

            The comment below appears to be based simply on a 10 sec clip on Youtube …. which just doesn’t give you the context or a wider view of how it happened. Solo’s post match comments are interesting. She wasn’t giving Wambach a pass. And clearly the league saw enough to suspend. The comments and suspension are in the public record. Wambach was definitely looking to dish out some pain … probably in retribution for what she felt she had been on the receiving end. I wonder how Wambach feels about ending Daniela’s career. Is it really just “it’s a physical game, injuries happen”? Somebody previously commented that Wambach Bill Lambier’d her way to glory. That pretty much sums it up.

          • Breakers fan

            I just saw that 10 second clip so I too haven’t seen the context of the entire game. What can you add about that aspect of it?

            My view is that it was bad, but it wasn’t as bad as I expected, to be honest. I tried to pause it at the moment of impact, which is about at second # 5 and I think she does get the ball first. Still, she goes in awfully hard for a kind of generic middle of the field pass, I agree. I would ideally want to see a few different camera angles of the play. As you have said I strongly doubt she intended or wanted to cause any sort of career-ending injury; and if I had just seen the play itself I wouldn’t have predicted that would have been the result.

          • mockmook

            I’m too lazy (and squeamish) to go looking for the Abby broken leg clip.

            But, I did watch it live and in replays. As I remember it, there was nothing dirty from either player. Just two players going after 50/50 ball and only one player’s leg broke.

          • rkmid71

            If that’s the case, why did she get suspended?

          • mockmook

            I’m talking about when Abby broke her own leg.

          • Breakers fan

            Ah, sorry, here’s the context. Watching it a few more times I agree that it was over the line and excessive and she should know that could cause serious injury. I would like to see what St. Louis did to her during the game that you referenced, just to see if any of their play also crossed any lines of acceptably physical play.
            I don’t like the fact that as you report she never voiced any remorse about this, however. I’ve seen dirtier plays but this was also bad. In the big picture of her career vs. all others I guess I would ask: How many players in a career of 15 years have never done a play like this?

          • rkmid71

            I would turn the question around and ask: How many players have as many of those types of plays over the last 15 years as Wambach? I would guess Wambach has way more than average. In fact, I think that was her intent, and style of play. She was hoping to instill fear. As I said, like Bill Lambier. To try to intimidate, etc. Lambier used to clothesline players driving to the hoop with total disregard to their safety. He did it because that was the only way for him to compete. Once teams started to up their physicality to match or neutralize Wambach combined with her diminished physical capabilities with age, she was done. That was awhile ago. On that particular play in 2009, I think it was Wambach retaliating for what she perceived as (and which was probably true) rough play targeted towards her — I don’t think she was used to a team which was prepared to fight fire with fire, an eye for an eye, etc. But the strange thing is that she retaliated against a player not guilty of the rough play (but one who had scored 2 goals against them) and definitely unsuspecting that type of play in that part of the field. Basically like a sucker punch. I don’t think it had anything to do with her broken leg vs. Brazil. I think Steg makes a good point below about winning at all costs.

          • mockmook

            I don’t remember Abby as a dirty player (except flopping).

            Are there any other “famous” examples besides this Daniela one?

          • Breakers fan

            I’m not on any sort of crusade or mission to defend Abby at all costs or cast her as some kind of Saint. Sounds like you saw her play more than I, for I didn’t particularly view her as some sort of Laimbeer figure and I am familiar with Laimbeer. She was what she was – and you may know what “that” was better than I do. I admire the good she did, but recognize there may have been some bad in there too. It just seems like now is above all a time to recognize the good, as she gets lambasted on here it seems about 90% of the time.

          • Breakers fan

            I feel like you have seen Abby play more than I have, so you probably have more evidence of her as a player than I do. In my somewhat limited evidence of her play I never really saw her as a Laimbeer figure and I do know about Laimbeer. I saw her as several levels above that, but that doesn’t mean I’m necessarily right – just that it has been my experience as a fan of her play. I’m not on a mission to defend her at all costs. She was whatever she actually was. My intention, since she has gotten so much negative ink on this message board during the last few years, was to celebrate the good that she did – the 184 goals part of her legacy and her reputed leadership abilities for the team, our love of which brought all of us here in the first place.

  • dw

    This isn’t news, it’s a commercial.

    • AlexH

      Yes and I am sure that Abby was paid to say that so lets call it for what it is. That said, if Abby wants to cash a few more paychecks before America does forget her, more power to her.

      • dw

        Yeah, but my point was it’s not news, nor her parting message. It’s a bad ad campaign.

        • AlexH

          Well when your right your right.

  • FDChief

    The thing about Abby that drove me crazy was her ego. Her insistence on playing long after it became obvious that she was becoming ineffective and, worse, was imposing her Abbyball style – old-school English whip-crosses-onto-the-head-of-the-target-forward – on a WNT that had a slew of more technically skilled, tactically gifted players. Her singleminded insistence in lingering on – to win that World Cup that had eluded her – to the detriment of her team’s ability to play a more effective, fluid, possession style. “Forget me?” Are you kidding? She didn’t want ANYone to forget her, or forget that Abby was the heart of the USWNT.

    So as poignant as this is – and it IS a well crafted commercial! – it leaves me completely unmoved because it’s so obviously completely fictional in its depiction of the player at its core. Clever little tale crafted to tug at the heartstrings…but ineffective because once you think of the subject you can’t help realizing that there’s not a grain of truth in it.

    • AlexH

      Who among us wouldn’t have done exactly what Abby did if put in her shoes.

      Besides, I think that she earned her spot on the WC team as she still had utility on the team, especially because all of her apparent young gun replacements were singularly incapable of putting the ball in the back of the net in the run up to the cup.

      If Abby held back the team it is on Jill Ellis. Rather than wasting almost an entire year to find a way to feature Abby, she should have just said, “Abby is a role player now. You might see her as a late game sub every now and then, but the heavy lifting is going to be done by others.”

      • FDChief

        Well…I hung up my gloves when it was obvious that my injuries had made me too slow to be effective as even a recreational league ‘keeper, so there’s that…;P

        Yes, the real Abby made me nuts but I agree; she was doing what she felt she had to do and it was up to her coach to tell her – if the coach felt she needed to be told – that she was done.

        That said, it’s not Abby herself that makes this so hokey, but the
        combination of the REAL Abby – the woman who was so driven by her
        ambition that she kept on past her expiration date – with the whole
        abnegation of the Abby in the Gatorade ad. That’s not who she was, that’s not how she rolled, and for Gatorade to try and convince us differently is made of fail…

        • AlexH

          I agree with you that the ad was probably disingenuous but, to play devils advocate, the all consuming desire to achieve everything on the field of play is not incompatible with the ability to fade off into the sunset once all of your goals are met.

          • Steglitz49

            Why should she fade into the sunset. There are tons of things to do after a playing career. Just look around. Coaching, sports administration, sport safety, players trade unions, etc etc.

            Granted, not everyone can get as high as Neid or Pia. Norio was at best a mediocre male player, as was Even. But there are plenty of stuff to do.

        • Breakers fan

          Just to play devil’s advocate: you emphasize, in a negative way, “her ambition”. That ambition was “to win a World Cup”, which has to be the most common and universal ambition in soccer. In baseball it’s “to win a World Series”, etc., etc. with the other sports. So her ambition was the same as every other athlete. So, her sin wasn’t that. It was, as you say “to continue on past her expiration date”. When, in your opinion, was her precise expiration date? I agree that she continued on past it, but for how long after is my question? I’d say a year to a year and a half past it. With a 23 person WC roster I personally don’t think it was beyond the realm of acceptability to carry Abby for it. Also, maybe the other players really did like having her around for her leadership, as we have been hearing. No way for us to know anything at all about that, being shut out of the inner circle of the team. That is not considered in the strongest anti-Abby comments.

          And, really, how many minutes did Abby play in the final year vs. the total # of minutes the NT played? My guess is that she played about 25% of the time. I do think there was *maybe* something behind the scenes saying that the public needs to see her play some but I also think Jill absolutely needed to see what Abby had left and of course the only way to do that is to play her. She did add qualities no other forward had, so it wasn’t totally crazy. That’s all. I am still on the side of “Jill wasted some time” but I temper it with other factors.

      • Steglitz49

        Fair dinkum.

      • NYRick

        We can’t get into this here, you know that and it’s been hashed out ad nauseum for the past several years. But we can’t possibly be putting this on Ellis in terms of her having sovereign control over this program. We all know that can’t possibly be the case. Abby had the hammer. A Thor-like gigantic hammer if we are being fair. And she knew that. She is smarter and much more savvy than she let’s on the surface.

        I’m not an Ellis fan but she was bought on to be a placeholder and caretaker to a vet group wanting that last hurrah for the WC. At the summit of that was certainly Abby whose best soccer had passed her by a good 2-3 years ago. The young gun replacements need her to fully leave the scene to reach their potential and achieve their own greatness. It’s simple psychology.

        • guest

          Here’s Rick with the conspiracies again. Give it up man.

          • NYRick

            Conspiracy is always the word used for when people prefer that you just shut up and be one of the sheeple. Don’t challenge the status quo or the conventional wisdom. Not going to do that sorry. Abby had incredible power and influence in this program. To deny that is naive. Also I wasn’t bringing up any conspiracy, that’s your word. Only saying that she had influence over Ellis for sure. Not far fetched by any means. In fact common sense very logical.

          • guest

            Rick’s one of those truthers who think 9/11 was an inside job.

          • AlexH

            I think that Abby’s prominence in the program the last few years was due to something in addition to her skills on the field. I don’t think that it was as much as NYRick thinks it was but there was definitely something going on behind the scenes.

          • guest

            Star players always have pull, but Rick is implying something much more sinister.

          • HOFCToDi

            Yet NYRick glosses over the fact the CP23 could not hit the broad side of a barn in the last three appearances (Sweden, Colombia, China) at the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            SOG/SA
            0/5

            Those little details.

          • Tell the Truth

            Remind us again how many goals the other players scored before the final.

          • Lorehead

            Although, in fairness to NYRick, he did win that bet about minutes the forwards would play. I think my prediction that Abby would not start in the group stage against Sweden or the elimination rounds held up well too.

          • guest

            Abby is so powerful, she benched herself during the WC.

          • HOFCToDi

            Christie Rampone lost her spot in the starting XI to Julie Johnston.

            Abby Wambach will no longer be on the USWNT for the 2016 calendar year.

            On to the next conspirator.

          • guest

            Rick is going to target Lloyd. And of course continue making back-handed compliments about Morgan.

          • HOFCToDi

            NYRick has developed a pathological hatred of Carli Lloyd, 24/7 might I add, since the conclusion of the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            Any player on the USWNT roster is a threat to CP23 in the eyes of one obsessive compulsive poster.

          • guest

            Yes, Rick dreamed of CP scoring a hat trick in the final but instead it was Lloyd. You see Rick trashing Lloyd and Morgan because they occupy CP’s spot on the team. You don’t see Rick mentioning Leroux much anymore because she hasn’t been playing, and he no longer sees her as a threat to his beloved CP23.

          • HOFCToDi

            NYRick took pot shots at Megan Rapinoe implying that Christen Press is a better flank midfielder option than Megan Rapinoe. NYRick lost all credibility with that rant.

          • NYRick

            The truly hilarious part of your post is the use of the word, proselytization. As if you even know what that word means. LOL. That’s a big boy word. Stick to your juvenile intellect. It best suits you.

          • HOFCToDi

            Stick to your lame excuses, pathetic hypotheticals, and outrageous conspiracy theories. Christen Press 24/7.

          • Steglitz49

            Please lay off NYRick. he is a bit monomanic about Christen Annemarie but he got her a WC winners medal so he has done his job. Now he can leave to start champion someone else — like Ms Colaprico.

          • HOFCToDi

            Thanks but no thanks.

            Once the jihad against Alex Morgan and Carli Lloyd ceases, I will consider my options.

          • Steglitz49

            You don’t need to worry about Alex Morgan because she is a mega-star.

            I doubt that you can do anything for Carli because with her goal in OG-08, she should have been a superstar before Alex even played for the NT.

            Even if Carli gets to be POTY, she will never cash in like Alex, Hope and Abby have done. The value of a winning personality couple to a good agent is worth millions.

          • IHOPCToDYI

            There’s only one jihadist here and it’s you, following your shari’a standard line about how Press is the worst player on the team. She didn’t play in the final of the WC, so that means Press must be so bad she can’t play on the WNT. Ellis disagrees with you. She knows more about soccer than you do. I;ll follow her opinion rather than your shari’a law.

          • guest

            he goes on and on about other people hating on certain uswnt players but yet he is the only one that calls for a certain uswnt player to be dropped from the team. seems like the hate doesn’t get much stronger than that. not to mention the fact that the players he wants to replace said player with are performing even worse.

          • HOFCToDi

            The 2012 USWNT won gold at the 2012 Summer Olympic Games without Christen Press. The 2016 USWNT can win gold at the 2016 Summer Olympic Games without Christen Press.

          • HOFCToDi

            Cry me a river.

          • HOFCToDi

            There is only so much patience the USWNT coaching staff will have with CP23. Calendar year 2016 will most likely be the make or break year.

          • Steglitz49

            That is why I have encouraged Christen Annemarie to go for her career in broadcasting now using Rio as a springboard.

          • HOFCToDi

            Now that you mention it, Lloyd and Morgan were the only two players on the USWNT roster to register a shot on goal against China in the quarterfinals of the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            resources.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/02/65/35/93/eng_45_0626_chn-usa_fulltime.pdf

          • Steglitz49

            To be fair to NYRick, Crystal was injured at a critical time, which no doubt contributed to or at least made it easy for JE not to bring her to WC-15 so that yet another Veteran could be accommodated. As for size, 5’1″ makes her on the short side even in the Japanese NT.

          • HOFCToDi

            Hilarious!

            equalizersoccer.com/2015/07/29/abby-wambach-plans-play-rio-olympics-2016-uswnt/

            Look at the quote I found from NYRick:

            “Wambach is basically telling you she is playing Rio, when she lied through her teeth that all she wanted was that WC (which she did next to nothing for). But she still wants to more and she doesn’t give a flying F#$& who stands in her way or who she has to step on to continue on her merry path. She is a villain.”

          • NYRick

            If this board was monitored and old quotes from you were dug up you would be banned on several counts:

            1) Adding absolutely zero to any conversation
            2) Tasteless, moronic and vulgar attacks on one said player
            3) Your screaming and obnoxious use of all caps, and worse, the copy and pasting of all caps proving that you can’t make a point concisely.
            4) A blatant disrespect for fellow commentators
            5) There’s more, but why bother.

          • HOFCToDi

            NYRick’s posts are nothing more than the incessant rants of a raving lunatic.

          • Steglitz49

            Why do you think I advise her to take the network’s shilling. Better number one by the trap shooting range than on the bench in Rio.

          • HOFCToDi

            Sell it to your New York buddy CP23 24/7.

            According your New York buddy, I add absolutely nothing to any conversation.

          • Steglitz49

            Christen Annemarie is rather fetching, don’t you agree? She should put her talents where she can get most return on them — in the service of broadcasting.

          • ARED

            I probably shouldn’t jump into the middle off all this, but it seems relevant to point out that Press was not playing in her preferred position and still contributed arguably the best/only goal from a forward during the one play she took up a forward’s role (thanks to Wambach’s inability to get around the pitch).

            Press was benched b/c the team was struggling in the midfield, and they weren’t going to bench Lloyd, Holiday, or Rapinoe. They won so it worked out well enough in the end, but it’s hardly fair to act like Press, Leroux, ARod, etc had poor performances. They were all quite good considering the roles/chances given to them in my mind. And if they had lost there would have been plenty to question (the “problem” with having such a deep program).

          • Guest

            Don’t waste your time trying to reason with HOFCToDi.

          • HOFCToDi

            Excuses are for losers.

            resources.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/02/64/73/21/eng_19_0612_usa-swe_fulltime.pdf

            resources.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/02/64/72/20/eng_19_0612_usa-swe_tacticalstartlist.pdf

            It’s everybody else at fault except Christen Press. It’s a broken record since the conclusion of the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.

          • ARED

            Sometimes excuses are actually just reasons….

            You seem to have strong feelings about Press and/or folks who support her. I gave three names (and there are more) and Press is just one of them. But she’s the lightning rod, since some people seem to expect her to do better than she has (or be cut from the team?), and I think also b/c most people rate her either above the others or as having potential to be so.

            I never said Rapinoe struggled individually, but she was a part of a midfield and attack that were very clunky, and certainly not at the high standard which the USA can be held to.

            I appreciate the effort to document things, but stats in this game are only the tiniest glimpse of the picture, and to tear a midfielder apart for only scoring 1 goal, and for missing the target on 5 shots is quite lacking analysis in my opinion. Why didn’t Holiday score more? Why can Lloyd sometimes seem to have lost all sense of where the goal is? Was Morgan hurting the team just b/c she wasn’t scoring?

            My eyes told me that the problem was first that Wambach was playing, and second that Ellis’ midfield mix was not mixing well at all. These things were remedied enough to lift the trophy. Press was a role player, and performed well enough as such. If Carli Lloyd had been benched due to her poor performances she never would have had the hat trick or be the Player of the Year favorite. Sometimes you need things to break your way for you to take advantage.

          • Guest

            I think Wambach was one of the two big issues with the US starting XI going into the WC and the other was the CM pairing. After the Sweden game Pinoe toned down the shoot from everywhere and try to dribble through everyone approach. Throughout the first four games of the tournament Lloyd and Holiday were unable to read and play off each other in any meaningful which led to giant gaps in the center of midfield when both stayed home or both got forward. This resulted in the wings being the only viable option to advanced the ball with few support outlets. The switch to Heath helped relieve pressure a little but it wasn’t until Morgan Brian entered the starting XI and Carli was shuffled up to play as a withdrawn striker that the midfield started to help the US control games. Rapinoe, Holiday, Brian and Heath is one of the best midfields the US has ever played. I only hope that whoever they use in the Olympics next year can match their performance or possibly improve it if Ellis finds a way to start a real distributing CAM in the hole.

          • ARED

            Yes, then we agree. It was laughable to me that Wambach was playing, but not surprising. She was the 5th-best forward on the team. I can see wanting to play Lloyd moreso, but I think the midfield is better without her and that was proven in the final rounds as the team was quite good in the midfield, as you say. Lloyd as a forward wasn’t very impressive to me when you have 3 quality forwards on the bench, but it didn’t hurt them like it did to have her in midfield. And of course, Lloyd is world class on set pieces, so keeping her on the field can pay off….

            But I agree, Heath and Brian were the keys for me (after the backline was fully established as a dominant unit). I’m still shocked that Brian made the team/lineup, when compared to the standard “vets over everything else” policy apparently in place.

          • Guest

            We definitely agree about Wambach and even about Lloyd for the most part. Wambach offered nothing from open play in the WC and was clearly the least effective forward on the team. I thought Lloyd was very good in the Germany and Japan games. I just want to put out there that I am not blowing the set piece scoring and penalties out of proportions. I just thought she was good from open play. I will admit that the player I want to see most in the withdrawn striker role is Press. Press would be lethal on cutbacks from the wings. Brian and Heath’s contributions continue to be extremely undervalued by many fans but this has alway been a problem in the mens game so that won’t change any time soon.

          • ARED

            Fair enough. I have believed the US could (should) move on from Lloyd running their midfield for quite some time, mostly due to the belief that Holiday, Rapinoe, and Heath (not to mention others like Brian) could form a truly transcendent midfield beyond what the women’s game has ever seen. Lloyd didn’t fit into that picture for me (and I think the Holiday/Lloyd partnership basically shows this) but she certainly is and has always been a great midfielder regardless. Goals and set pieces aside, I felt she was poor to start the WC, and good enough to end it. So I agree with you really, just rate her a bit lower probably about her starting and ending point.s

            For me Wambach hurt the team to start the WC, then helped the team only by not playing. Lloyd was hurting the team in open play to start, then was neither helping nor hurting for me (but the set pieces obviously were a big help). I didn’t see her as playing much of a role in the creation of chances or even maintaining possession. Sounds like you’d give her a bit more credit, but I just can’t let go of the fact that I feel many US players would excel in the free role she was given in the final rounds (Holiday, Press, Heath, Leroux, etc would all have been better for me).

            But in general we seem to see things similarly, and I am certainly always glad to see another praising Heath and Brian -and players who play that way. Quietly playing the game the right way, for the team, and I always love a pass-first player. But it doesn’t show up on a stat sheet, or even many highlight reels, and so it seems it is not seen/valued by most.

          • Guest

            Don’t expect any semblance of in depth analysis from HOFCToDi. All you will get are more copy and paste stats and video clips of Carli’s finals hat-trick which, all things considered, I found to be a world class performance from her.

          • ARED

            Indeed, lol.

            I agree, she was quite impressive in the final. I find her to be world class on set pieces, and the WC (and the final) certainly brought this to light. She also has the ability to score wonder goals from distance, but the midfield goal was truly a goal for the ages.

            That said, I no longer rate her as a world class midfielder, which of course will no set well with many. But her teammates (and coach!) gave her the platform to excel in the final, and she certainly took full advantage.

          • HOFCToDi

            Excuses are for losers.

            Yet another poster who just glosses over the fact that Christen Press could not hit the broad side of a barn in the last three appearances (Sweden, Colombia, China) at the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            Shots on Goal/Shots Attempted
            0/5

            It’s everybody else at fault except Christen Press. It’s a broken record since the conclusion of the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.

            The USWNT won gold at the 2012 Summer Olympic Games without Christen Press. The USWNT can win gold at the 2016 Summer Olympic Games without Christen Press.

          • ARED

            Haha ok ok, you win: you have proven “I shouldn’t (have jumped) into the middle of this”…..lol.

            Every single player on the US is expendable. They could have won the WC without Lloyd, Morgan, Holiday, etc, etc. They are that good, and deep, which is why Ellis comes under so much fire -it’s part of the job. Solo and Sauerbrunn are the two who leave the biggest gap to their replacements, but even if both were gone the US would have been a favorite to win.

            I am not fixated on Press; you seem to be. I said by your standards Holiday, Morgan, and Lloyd were all rubbish too, b/c certain stats did not look for them at times.

          • HOFCToDi

            Bull crap.

            The USWNT beat Germany in the semifinals of the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup with the following players:

            Morgan, Rapinoe, Lloyd, Heath, Brian, Holiday, Klingenberg, Sauerbrunn, Johnston, Krieger, Solo, O’Hara.

            The USWNT beat Japan in the final of the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup with the following players:

            Morgan, Rapinoe, Lloyd, Heath, Brian, Holiday, Klingenberg, Sauerbrunn, Johnston, Krieger, Solo, O’Hara.

            You are fixated on Christen Press since you deny that Christen Press was even benched during the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup. Christen Press is expendable.

          • ARED

            Haha ok ok, you win: you have proven “I shouldn’t (have jumped) into the middle of this”…..lol.

            I never denied that. I literally just said “Every single player on the US is expendable”, and that would obviously include Press.

            You’ve impressed/exhausted me by taking this so far. Cheers, be well, etc!

          • HOFCToDi

            “Every single player on the US is expendable” yet Christen Press was benched by the USWNT coaching staff during the 2015 FIFA Women’s Women World Cup.

            Throughout the entire discussion you have to failed to praise let alone acknowledge the contributions of the following players on the USWNT roster:

            Morgan, Rapinoe, Lloyd, Heath, Brian, Holiday, Klingenberg, Sauerbrunn, Johnston, Krieger, Solo, O’Hara.

            Instead you have marginalized their contributions and called the aforementioned twelve players “expendable”. You have proven nothing except to insult the core players on the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup roster. Yet another member of the “Press Gang Troll Brigade” who has proven to be useless.

          • ARED

            Maybe try taking a walk outside and getting some fresh air or something….? ; p

            I have gone on record, often, at length, praising each of the 12 players you list. So now O’Hara was a “core player”? She was ignored until the end. She came through, as did Heath, Brain, and Johnston, despite Ellis undervaluing them until her hand was forced, but I’m not sure O’Hara herself would feel she was a core player. Probably more of an “underused role player”.

            You’re really caught up on making very big assumptions/statements out of very little. Press is a great player, along with the 12 you mentioned. They all formed a team that should always have won the WC 2015. And they did in the end. I strongly believe players like O’Hara, Press, Holiday, Heath, and Brain (as well as Dunn, Averbuch, and many who didn’t even make the roster) could and should have played bigger roles, but the advantage of having the best and deepest talent pool is that the coach can make choices that may be questionable, but still end up fielding a dominant team. That’s more or less what happened by my estimation; congrats to the US women for their triumph.

          • guest

            Press was quite poor against Sweden. Considering all the hype around her fans believing the WC would be a breakout tournament for her, well, it never quite worked out like that did it?

          • ARED

            I suppose it’s all a matter of perspective. 2015 WC always looked to be a great chance for Morgan and/or Press to me, but unfortunately for each of them it turned out to be a muted showing on a personal level. Yet, they both have WC medals and contributed well in their roles.

          • HOFCToDi

            FIFA Women’s World Player of the Year

            The contenders for the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Player of the Year have been announced.

            fifa.com/ballon-dor/player-of-the-year/women.html

            By the way, Christen Press is not on the list.

          • HOFCToDi

            2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
            Golden Ball Award

            youtube.com/watch?v=uJeJXryvbwc

            By the way, it’s not Christen Press.

          • HOFCToDi

            2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup
            Final – USA versus Japan

            youtube.com/watch?v=mBosyOJ3PIY

            By the way, it’s not Christen Press.

          • HOFCToDi

            What was the contribution from Christen Press in the final of the 2014 CONCACAF Women’s Championship Tournament?

            youtube.com/watch?v=iF0szGyN_g4

            ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/tournaments/2014-concacaf-womens-championship/141026-wntvcrc

          • Steglitz49

            Do you think he has a secret agenda to force Christen Annemarie to pose in the buff?

            He seems awfully hung up on her. I know I have been critical of her but not to this extent. Granted, he keeps on the side of decency in his comments about her — and any female player, I think — but it is rather monomanic and suspicious.

    • SpiritFan00

      Agree with all of the above, just didn’t want to be the one getting skewered in the comment for saying it. Especially:

      “Forget me?” Are you kidding? She didn’t want ANYone to forget her, or forget that Abby was the heart of the USWNT…because it’s so obviously completely fictional in its depiction of the player at its core.”

      That’s why it seemed so inauthentic to me.

      • Steglitz49

        Hear hear!

    • NYRick

      Great post, and admire your guts for saying it.

    • Breakers fan

      If Boxx got a World Cup call as a “thank you” I agree that Abby should definitely have gotten one.And if you had to pick one of the two you pick Abby, of course. One can’t blame Abby though for when she played in the time period before the World Cup. She can’t make the coach play her. That is all on Jill, if it’s something you don’t agree with. Although I agree that we had better options for the last year or two pre-Cup I think that I feel Abby wasn’t as bad or undeserving of some playing time, especially 2 years ago as opposed to 1, as many here.

      • ARED

        I agree in part at least. I think the 2 problems were: 1) Wambach/Ellis took way too long to establish her in the “mascot”/late sub role, which should have happened a year sooner than the middle of the WC. 2) Ellis didn’t take just 1, or even 2 “thank you” players. AW, Boxx, Chalupny, and to lesser degrees Rampone and O’Reilly. That’s at least 3, if not 5 players who were not able/needed to help the team win the WC. That sends a massive message to the other players who are fighting tooth and nail to (further) establish themselves in the national team picture, whether many people want to admit it or not. Wambach couldn’t come close to almost any ball played to her. At a World Cup. With literally 4 other top quality (and very fast) forwards desperate to get on the field. And that’s not to even mention things like Crystal Dunn…

  • FDChief

    And I should add that as hokey and fake as I think the Gatorade ad is, the Nike ad is terrific and touching. Her teammates are wonderful, and the way they describe her reminds us that Abby WAS a great player and DID all those things her teammates – and we – will remember her for. The Abby the players are talking to in the Nike ad is the real Abby (and can I say how much I love Dunn’s whole bit about her dancing? Who knew?) and the one worth celebrating.

    • Steglitz49

      I remember watching Abbey in WC-03 and thinking: “What a player!”

      Why it took the US so long to win the WC remains a mystery but Abby was the only US player to score her penalty in that disgraceful pso in 2011. For that penalty alone, she should be respected,, never mind her header in the QF and extra time in the final.

      • NYRick

        On Derek Jeter’s final game at Yankee Stadium, the fans in the right field bleachers started a loud catchy chant while he was on the field of “Thank You Derek.” And repeated it for entire innings of play.

        His reply to the media post game when asked about that chant was to the effect of, “I can’t believe they were thanking me. Thanking me for what? I was only doing my job of playing to the best of my ability for them over the years. That’s my job. That’s my only job.”

        If only more athletes understood and got this.

        • Steglitz49

          Derek Jeter was one of the true stars. Even those who did not care about baseball not only knew who Jeter was but respected him.

          I remember him from that memorial service at that college shooting (can’t remember which of all of them). Total class. Perfect for the occasion.

      • AlexH

        There is absolutely no mystery about the length of time it took to win a WC for Abby. Bottom line, winning a WC is difficult because it requires both luck and ability. Soccer is littered with great teams that have returned home empty handed.

        Brazil walked in the wilderness for 24 years between 1970 and 1994, Germany 24 between 1990 and 2014 and Italy 44 years between 1938 and 1982. Holland and your boy Cruyff never got to hoist the cup at all.

        • Steglitz49

          Yes. Germany v Sweden in the US in 2003 and Germany v Brazil in 2007 but in 2011 the US at least got to the final but the cookie did not crumble their way.

          But. The US dominates WoSo and has for 30 years. No other country has so many players and there is no NCAA anywhere else.

          • AlexH

            The USA is 3 for 7 in WCs and 4 for 5 in OGs. That’s pretty darn good. I think the WC drought was just the coin coming up tails when it did.

          • HOFCToDi

            Steglitz49 is bitter because Swedish association football has been in a downward spiral this decade.

            The Sweden Men’s National Football Team failed to qualify for the 2010 FIFA World Cup. The Sweden Men’s National Football Team failed to qualify for the 2014 FIFA World Cup. Malmö FF crashed and burned in the Group Stage of the 2015-16 UEFA Champions League. The Sweden Women’s National Football Team failed to win one game at the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup. KIF Örebro DFF failed to advance to the quarterfinals of the 2015-16 UEFA Women’s Champions League.

          • Steglitz49

            Walk out into the street and ask a hundred people who Abby and Zlatan are, and you will be frightened by how many know of Zlatan.

            Till rumors started that Arsenal might want to acquire Zlatan it was expected that he would come and play in the MLS. I hope he does go to MLS. Whichever team acquires Zlatan will up their attendances even as they raise ticket prices.

          • ARED

            Zlatan definitely fits in MLS better than Arsenal….(at least for me…lol). Just like Cavani, Zlatan is a big forward who needs the ball and needs the team to get them the ball to be effective. They already have a better fit in Giroud, who can play within the Arsenal system, bringing the many other attackers into the game. I doubt Weneger sees Zlatan as the striker for him (though the market is somewhat hazy at the moment).

          • Steglitz49

            You seem to be 10 years behind the times.

            Zlatan is 34 and it has been a while since he played as a striker. He still conjures up amazing shots out of nowhere and his freekicks are (almost) in Miyama’s class.

            I don’t know why they want Zlatan or even if the rumor is true. The Gunners have Özil so maybe they are collecting players with to English ears unusual names?

            Whichever MLS team take him can expect their attendances to go up — maybe by as many as show up for a Portland game and certainly above the NWSL average.

          • ARED

            What would you say he plays then? I don’t follow him closely, but as recently as last spring I seem to remember him playing forward/striker/etc. And Cavani was (is?) routinely shunted out wide to placate Zlatan’s playing centrally.

            Either way, he’d have an Henry-like impact in MLS. Draw a lot, score a good bit, but most likely not lift the cup. (Which is fair enough, MLS would be happy either way).

          • Steglitz49

            Zlatan’s strength is his passing. He has great vision and can weight a pass like few.

            He is, for good reason, the 3rd highest earning men’s soccer player. This is in spite having few marketing contracts. Ronaldo and Messi earn much more than him.

            Only Messi would be a bigger draw in the MLS than Zlatan. I contend that CR7 would not be as good a magnet but that may depend on where the team is located.

          • HOFCToDi

            Time to close calendar year 2015 and look forward to calendar year 2016.

            Steglitz49 is terrified at the proposition that the Sweden Women’s National Football Team will fail to qualify for the 2016 Summer Olympic Games.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_UEFA_Women%27s_Olympic_Qualifying_Tournament

          • Steglitz49

            Your’s is a most realistic assessment. The betting order ought to be Norge > NL > Swe > CH.
            — Only miracles or injuries among the Norwegian and Dutch players will get Sweden to the OG.

          • Lorehead

            I think you can point to some hubris in 2003 and 2007, but 2011 was just Fate playing with us.

          • His

            Which fate? The late and lucky goal against Brazil in QF? Or the undeserved win against France in SF? And don’t forget that they lost from Sweden in the group phase

          • Steglitz49

            Don’t spell out the truth. They can’t cope with it, poor lambs.

        • Breakers fan

          Proposal, half in jest, half serious. When counting “years between World Cup victories”, I propose, in your examples — instead of 24 for Brazil and Germany we instead say 6, and for Italy’s 44 we say 11. For the obvious reason.

          The jest part is that a team has a lot of time, 4 years worth, to prepare and improve to win the next one. The serious part is that you only get to try 1 out of 4 years to win it.

  • NothanksAbby

    Jurgen now joins Tom Semannni as the second US national team coach that Abby has called for to be fired….

    • Lorehead

      Ha ha, but several of her teammates did, including Morgan, Rampone and Solo. I’m not sure exactly how the myth that it was Abby’s idea got started, but it seems to be connected to one poster’s delusions about the time Abby Wambach was player-coach of Christen Press’ WPS team in 2011.

      • Terry Lash

        What is the best source for info and analysis about the firing of Tom Sermanni?

        • Steglitz49

          That White Teddy bear at the WC.

          • rkmid71

            I’ll admit I laughed out loud when I saw your comment. Thank you.

        • Lorehead

          Probably Sunil Gulati! Who else knows exactly what he was thinking when he fired Tom Sermanni?

        • dw

          I’m hoping it’s Lauren Holiday. My theory is that she got out because she was pissed at being demoted so that CL could get all the glory, especially since she’s the better player. She doesn’t own anything to anyone, so I hope she writes a book. All unfounded speculation, of course. Well, her play declined after the switch to DM, and she got out before others who are older, so at least the loony theory fits some of the facts…

          • Guest

            This is unfair to CL. If anything the change was made because CL skill set made it impossible for her to be effective at holding mid. And based on what I know about Lauren she would be happy to play where ever the coaching staff thought they needed her just like Tobin, Brian, and Press. Pia had Holiday in a bunch of different position in the 2011 WC

          • dw

            I don’t think it’s unfair at all. LH was the preferred CAM. CL was not a good DM. When roles were swapped, the resulting combo was more effective because LH>>CL at DM whereas the difference upfield was marginal at best. I will be fair to CL here, it’s just a different style, not that LH is a better CAM, it’s just she’s a better link-up player and CL is a better goal scorer. And goal scoring came up trumps in WWC final, as it often does with CL in big games.

            And it still begs the question, why quit now? One more big pay year and shot at a gold medal. It’s not like she’s past it at all, she’s in her prime, and baby at 30 is not so different than baby at 29… How many people can say they won league, WC, and OG in the same 12(-ish) months?

          • Guest

            The change in formation wasn’t made until the 23 had been picked for Canada. At that point Jill Ellis’ hands were tied she didn’t have 3 CMs she could play other than Lloyd, Holiday, or Brian. Regardless of who we may prefer playing CAM, I would have liked to see Brian there over both, Carli Lloyd played 2 excellent games in the hole to help lead the team to winning the WC.

          • dw

            Plus, lets not look past the GWG at WWC, scored by LH, which was technically the best of the lot. How much mention does this get? To go back to horseracing: Carli and Abby first, the rest nowhere.

          • Breakers fan

            One could I think debate what was ‘technically the best of the lot” — Lloyd’s outside of the left foot re-direct spinner from a swiftly moving ball I personally feel was technically the best; and also to strike a ball precisely like she did from midfield for goal #3 was also, technically, technically very good.

          • dw

            I grant you, this point is debatable. I have made my case.

          • Guest

            I think the biggest reasons for Holiday’s early retirement in no specific order: She wants to start a family, She wants to spend more time with her husband who also happens to be a professional athlete and by necessity is also always busy, and she really doesn’t need the money from being a member of the national team.

          • dw

            Open your eyes for once. Unless you are her agent. You are spouting clichés and PR press release stuff. You don’t think anyone ever has ever left a job for private, unspoken reasons? For the record, that’s like everyone, at like every job ever left. There are the things you tell publicly, and the things that you don’t. Don’t just sit back in blind acceptance, ask questions. To think there aren’t issues beyond the patently obvious is naïve.

          • Guest

            Jrue Holiday is making 9.213 million dollars a year and his contract is worth over 41 million. How much of a difference is 150,000 a year really going to make? Who’s to say Lauren can’t still make good money without the arduous schedule of playing for the National team.

          • LadiesinCleats4

            I can definitely see her retiring just based on the finances alone. I know many girls who find a male surgeon/specialist making $300K+/ year and they quit their jobs even if they got paid well. Jrue is making much more than that so I too can see her retiring simply because “Why work?”

          • Breakers fan

            But if you love playing the game I don’t think you give it up at her age, just turned 28, purely and solely because you feel you’re all set financially. On other hand if you feel that due to his lifestyle as an NBA player you figure out that the only way to spend enough time with him to make the marriage healthy is to make a sacrifice then maybe you give up the game even though you still love it. His salary makes this possible but I think that probably the bigger driver was in the direction of family and spending time together. Plus, she had the added incentive of having accomplished every possible soccer goal at least once.

          • LadiesinCleats4

            True True. I’d agree that making that sacrifice for family reasons probably played a large role but not needing a job fiancially made that sacrifice possible. Had she needed her check, they would have had to figure out how to make their marriage work in the context of a two income family. People who have bills they pay with their salary tend not to quit their jobs and she doesn’t have finances tying her to employment. That was my main point.

          • Steglitz49

            Lauren may not have seen it as a sacrifice. Lauren could have been Magdalena’s spiritual sister, just not be prepared to state, that she could not motivate herself anymore.

          • Steglitz49

            There used to be an advert on English TV with a slogan that went something like this: “Happiness is a cigar called Hamlet. the mild cigar.” The line was preceded by some inane event after which the demoralized/defeated/inconvenienced character lit up a cigar and exhaled with feeling.

          • dw

            Your points are not without merit. It’s just that my worldview (which is not shared by most) is that in almost all matters there are facts presented and facts hidden. And if somehow one knew all the facts, both presented and hidden, then a different picture of reality is gained than when all you had was just the facts presented. Apologies if the last post was too much leaning towards personal attack. That was not the intent, just to point out that generally, I do not favor acceptance of matters out of hand.

          • Steglitz49

            I wonder whether she told that white teddy bear? She could be sure that it would stay stum and keep mum.

            There are quite a lot of sportspersons who have retired between 25-27. We can take turns in listing a few. I gave yo one above. Don’t worry, there are more.

          • Guest

            I am not looking past anyone’s performance but I think blaming Carli for Holiday’s retirement is way off base. I was not at all impressed with Carli’s performance in the last two games and wouldn’t mind seeing others get a shot at the #10

          • dw

            Here’s all that I’m stating. I’m not proposing this as truth, or even probable. I am submitting to you that the reason for her retirement COULD HAVE BEEN (give me long odds 15-1, 20-1, 30-1, whatever) that there was a lot of interpersonal and political crap behind the scenes and she got out while the getting was good. I have labeled it a loony theory, but I would like some agreement that this is one possible, albeit, unlikely explanation.

          • Breakers fan

            I hadn’t thought of it before but I think that, though like you said, the odds are probably long against it, it could be that she was very frustrated not playing her natural best position, saw no change coming in that regard, and decided to get out. Maybe that factor was a real one but just one added to several other maybe even bigger ones that she also had in mind.

          • Steglitz49

            It is even simpler. She had won the WC. There was nothing left to do. Time for a change.

            Lauren has moved on. Another Olympic gold would not have added a cubit to her fulfillment and contentment.

            It is not unheard of in other sports.

          • Breakers fan

            Not only a World Cup but also an Olympics or two, an NWSL title, soon to be 2, and an NWSL MVP award. But, but, even with those the rule is to play beyond 28. Retiring at that age when still playing at a high level is uncommon, though as you point out, not unprecedented. If you love to do something you continue to do it. For many it’s the journey, not the hardware or being able to say “Look what I won”. You start to play a sport because you enjoy it, and you continue for the same reason. How many championships did Michael Jordan win – 6? In other words, after winning 1 he wasn’t even remotely close to wanting to hang it up just because that happened. What drives an athlete is the day to day enjoyment. Very few if any are saying “I’m only doing this so I can tell people I won a World Cup.” Those who play because of that motivation probably never win one.

          • Steglitz49

            I put it to you that you are looking at it from the wrong end of the kaleidoscope. The past is herself (title of a book, not original). Once the goal was achieved, that was it.

            Lauren came off injured at halftime in 2011. It made Alex’s name — but Japan won. This time the US won the world cup. Mission accomplished. She had an exit strategy.

            Bjorn Borg retired at 26. It was at least as big a shock as Neuner’s retirment. John McEnroe tried to persuade Borg to play on.

            If you go too far back, the earnings potential were so much smaller that it is not a fair comparison. We are reminded of that in pro-soccer with the passing of Jimmy Hill the other day.

          • Breakers fan

            We’re basically in agreement. In other posts I already stated the extent of my thinking on this. Which is that I think she retired because she had achieved a lot of her big goals in the sport and for her personally perhaps due to her husband traveling a lot she could see that the best way to be with him and start a family was to retire from soccer. What I wanted to say to you was, generally, that just because someone wins a World Cup once they don’t lose all motivation and love of playing a sport. Many, most, still love all that is involved and want to try to win a second one, and they should not be blamed for that at all. It’s their free will to do as they please. It’s not ALL about titles won. Many continue to enjoy the process of being a pro soccer player even after winning a World Cup or Olympics or NWSL title or MVP award. Lauren’s situation is rather unique, – a strong desire to start a family; already having achieved many goals at age 28; and having a hubby who travels a LOT but who also makes a ton of money.

          • Steglitz49

            Lauren retired just before her 28th birthday. Seems a excellent time to move on to me. Not everyone would have and she could still repeat ARod’s strategy. Life goes on. No size fits everyone.

          • Steglitz49

            In 2012 the then 24 year old Magdalena Neuner shocked the biathlon world by announcing that she would retire at the end of the season because she “could not motivate herself any longer”.

            Today Magdalena prefers to be called Mrs Holzer. They have a daughter born a couple of days after they could be bothered to get married. She lives in the village where she grew up. Katja Seizinger also goes by her married name and when they go skiing the kids keep mum about their mum.

            Why invent all sorts of conspiracy theories? Why not take Lauren at word: that her playing days are over and she is moving on with her life.

          • guest

            Agassi is quoted as saying he “hated” tennis, yet he kept on playing till he was past 30. The only explanation for continuing to play would be money, maintaining a lifestyle. Fortunately for Lauren she had a golden parachute and could push the “eject” button at any time on her career. If only we all had such a golden parachute!

          • Steglitz49

            Agassi had an interesting taste in women. Then he lucked out. He and Steffi hit it off at the last Wimbledon Ball that she attended.

            In spite of Steffi being much more successful on the court than he was, Agassi earned much more because of all his endorsement.

            There is a charming video filmed by a fellow passenger with Steffi and the kids waiting at the luggage carousel (in Miami I think) completely unnoticed but when they walk out everyone is all over Agassi.

          • Breakers fan

            (a light bulb finally turned on for me: I kept reading “LH” as Lindsey Horan and I couldn’t figure out how she jumped back into a WC discussion. I was thinking “boy, people are *really* blown away by her recent play…”)

          • dw

            Cheney, if you will, although this generates a Steg auto-correct that I am somewhat loathe to trigger…

          • Steglitz49

            Merry Christmas, Mr Lawrence!

          • Steglitz49

            Why would Mrs Holiday tell tales out school? She won the WC. What else can she ask for?

          • dw

            A (moderately) big book deal? USWNT: The story behind the shield? Or something or other?

          • Steglitz49

            Her hubby earns more than enough. Why bother? Who would read it? for crying out loud. TS is a Scot who coached in Australia. The US won the WC without him.

            She would earn more from writing a cookbook or a book of knitting patterns.

      • ARED

        I would imagine that many (myself included) saw Wambach as the one most obviously poised to gain/lose a lot depending on the direction of the team, as well as having the power/position to actually make anything happen. Rampone, Boxx, Chalupny, and even Lloyd to a lesser degree.

        Players like Press, Heath, Leroux, and the younger players (Brian, JJ, Dunn, etc) all seemed more likely to benefit with the status quo than the change to Ellis.

        I certainly wasn’t privy to any backdoor discussions though, so I wouldn’t ever say I knew who called for what….

        • Lorehead

          This is a dead horse here, but no, I don’t agree that Wambach had the power to make any such thing happen. She just called for the men’s coach to get fired; did Heaven and Earth move? The idea that Gulati fired Sermanni as part of a plot to keep Wambach on the roster really does not make sense to me. Why would he have even wanted to put victory in the World Cup at risk for that? Wouldn’t he have been happier making a new star who’d be around in 2016 and 2019 out of Christen Press, who’s much more conventionally feminine, wears her hair long, always smiles and says only nice, humble things? (Hmm, could this possibly be related to why Wambach gets written as the villain and Press as the role of the victim?)

          What would that timeline even have looked like? Did Gulati order Sermanni to bench Press and play Wambach, the way rumor says he had to order Klinsmann to give Donovan a testimonial match, and did Sermanni say no? Why wouldn’t Sermanni have spilled the beans? Did Gulati just suddenly realize during the Algarve Cup that Sermanni was going to play Press and bench Wambach, and then realize he had to go? Did his actual lineups bear that out? Didn’t he in fact play Press as a winger, just like Ellis?

          • ARED

            Yes, but at least we’re only beating the dead horse, not betting on it. ; )

            In comparison to the other USWNT players, yes I think Wambach had as much or more power than any of them. Even if it was practically none.

            For me there are different levels of influence and action. It only takes a few grumbles, some uncomfortable results/reactions/players, and changes can be made. It happens everyday in sport, all around the world (look at Chelsea or Real Madrid). But when these things arise the person in charge can either go to bat for their coach (like Gulati has done with JK), or they can take action (whether they feel it’s right, they want to calm any storms before they grow, they were forced, or any multitude of reasons). Sermanni was sent away in a hurry and I think it was a surprise to most, if not an outright shock. So it hardly seems far-fetched to say that players grumbling may have played some factor, however great or small. And didn’t you post “Morgan, Rampone and Solo” called for his sacking? That’s the reason I replied, b/c my feeling is how can anyone know, unless people who were there start to talk (and can be believed).

            If not for some feeling that the players weren’t happy, I don’t see why Gulati fires the coach he just brought in, with help from a highly-regarded panel of experts. But I don’t understand many of his moves.

          • Lorehead

            Whatever measure of power the players had, Wambach had the most of it, if only because the others respect her so much. That’s not enough to play on natural grass or get traded to the Portland Thorns. Money is power, Abby Wambach doesn’t have it, and when the whole team was willing to strike and cost US Soccer millions plus the bad publicity, that’s when it gave in.

            We do know that Gulati, on his own initiative, asked the stars on the team, including her, how they felt about Tom Sermanni. She says she never asked him to fire Sermanni and he never told her that’s what he was planning to do, and of course neither would have, because that’s not how it works. But many players, not just her, said they weren’t happy with Tom Sermanni, and nobody on the team said it was a mistake to fire him. (Of course, those are precisely the people who benefit from the seniority system.)

          • Steglitz49

            I wonder whether they would have dared to run that stunt against a stronger personality? Like Pia, Pellerud or Sasaki.

            What if TS had survived? They never had to worry about that alternative. Wonder why?

          • mockmook

            Oh S49, if only you would post many more insightful comments like this — you could be an EQ star…

          • Lorehead

            Your team just had a huge fiasco, and your manager’s boss shows up to say, he’d like to talk. What kind of job do you think your manager’s been doing? They’re not stupid; they know what that means.

          • ARED

            As for Press vs. Wambach, I try not to look at it that way, but of course many do. I would argue looks should be a non-factor, although youth certainly tends to have bigger marketing potential better than “not youth”. But Abby sells also, and for the past 8+ years the USWNT has seemed scared to shift their marketing away from the status quo (Abby, Soccer Moms, hard work, team work, etc). Even as Morgan was storming the soccer world it was a rather delayed rise to stardom, in comparison to what it might have been. Only in the past 1-2 years does it seem like more of the “younger” players are being promoted, and still seemingly only when their play got in the way of the vets quest for vindication. So again, even though I don’t really agree with it, it seems the tendency from US Soccer, the USWNT, etc, was to favor the establishment as opposed to the new blood. It doesn’t give any concrete evidence of anything, but it fits a plausible narrative.

            And are you saying Press is to be faulted for being nice or humble? lol….you’re right it’s all a dead horse, esp with Wambach retiring. Sermanni might still be wondering what happened though….lol….or maybe he knows.

          • NYRick

            This was a case of Gulati giving one coach (JK) full sovereignty and the other (Sermanni) walking on eggshells or seemingly in the dark. There is no way TS puts out some of the lineups he experimented with at Algarve if he had even an inkling his job was in jeopardy. That was the ultimate blindside hit and with that, it stands to good reason that Gulati had to consult with several vet players like Rampone, Abby etc. to assist in that type of decision. An internal company lifer like Ellis was a safe choice for the vets who desperately wanted that last hurrah. Celia Sasic basically saved Gulati’s job because a WC loss would have and could have been second guessed for another 4 years and put the losing streak up to 20 going into WC19.

            BTW that is an awfully good and astute observation you made in terms of the US marketing (Abby, Soccer moms, hard work etc.) and really keep the status quo that is often lost in this analysis. Not to single out Lorehead, but I don’t think he and some others have ever grasped the importance of that in terms of how the USSF positions this team.

          • NYRick

            To add, Sermanni is never going to tell the full story (if he knows the why) simply because: 1) the guy seems classy and why go there 2) he may have a gag order in his contractual payoff after the firing from the USSF (very likely).

          • Steglitz49

            JE did not want the job straight after Pia, which is understandable given all that Pia had done and achieved. That does not mean that JE did not want the job at some future date with space from Pia, ideally with a downtrun in fortunes.

            When that downturn came because of Alex’s injury, maybe some persons pulled a few strings and activated some levers on her behalf, and hey presto.

            Indeed, Gulati might have asked her (through a decoy) if she would be willing this time were TS to step down, and she took the hint and offered herself.

          • Steglitz49

            Christen Annemarie was not in the soccer public’s eye when TS was given the heave-ho. TS had given her her first cap — JJ got hers in the same match too, incidentally — but her NT performance was less than stellar and she had not yet played in the NWSL.

            Judging by other sports, the European public at least like their female stars to live with partners, have babies and get married. The public don’t care that their other half is a lady or that each one goes on and has a baby each. Fecund femininity as an added value seemingly.

            Female athletes who have affairs or steal each others boy/girl-friends are (generally) given short shrift while photos without clothes for personal gain are an almost certain passport to sport’s equivalent of Siberia. Very rarely, outstanding performance can earn a pardon. Caught with your paw in the dopingjar is a no-no; even suspicion of it can get you cashiered.

          • Lorehead

            Should be? No. The background for what I was saying is that the slightly more sophisticated theory for why Sunil Gulati’s decision was Abby Wambach’s fault is:

            No, of course we’re not saying Sunil Gulati takes orders from Abby Wambach or that he wouldn’t still be responsible for his own actions if he did, because that’s idiotic. But he really did fire Tom Sermanni as part of a plot to keep Abby Wambach, Christie Rampone, Shannon Boxx and Lori Chalupny on the squad, and the reason he wanted to do that is that all those players are so much more marketable than Christen Press. His decision is Abby Wambach’s fault.

            There are a lot of problems with this theory. A lot. I’ve written about many more of them, at length. The one I was pointing out in my previous message is: That doesn’t even make sense, because Christen Press is potentially a lot more marketable than any of those players. If she’d just score when it mattered, she’d be Alex Morgan.

            Does she deserve to be faulted for being so nice and humble? No. But I do think that’s part of the reason her fans are so willing to see her as a helpless victim.

          • Steglitz49

            Verily. Delivering the goods when the chips are down is what makes you a star. If you do it 3 years in a row, you become a mega-star, like Alex. Then you need not get out of bed again.

            Christen Annemarie is only marketable if she scores against top notch teams. She had a fabulous season with Gbg (Hope’s old club) playing there at the same time as Yael and two other Americans but there was nothing humble about how she moved to the fleshpots of Tyresö. By their fruit ye shall know them.

          • ARED

            Yes, fair enough. Everyone’s entitled to their preferences with players and their personalities, and we all probably have different levels of tolerance for those of others. (It seems you were mostly reacting to other comments, and then I reacted by trying to understand where yours were coming from). I suppose it’s fair to say this version of the team won the WC so they were a success, but there was certainly a higher level of intrigue/unkowns behind the scenes than in years past.

            Cheers.

          • Steglitz49

            Had the team performed in Algarve-14 when Alex was injured and Mrs Holiday was unavailable, TS would have continued as coach.

            I suspect TS did not appreciate how much weight the US attaches to friendlies. Friendlies must be won. Experiments are only tolerated as long as the NT wins.

            TS has only himself to blame for failing to spot that Carli might be a winner when Alex was out injured. Granted, he was also without Lauren Holiday.

            Nevertheless, TS did call both Moe Brian and JJ into camp. JJ got her first cap in the same match as Christen Annemarie. I can’t remember whether TS was still in charge when Moe got her first cap.

            Thus, most reasonable people feel for TS. Whether he could have managed the politics better we shall never know. At the same time, given the width and depth of the US talent pool, one can appreciate why the top brass lost patience with him.

        • Steglitz49

          Any objective observer would contend that there were a lot of free passengers among the 20 of the 20+3 in WC-15 and that that strategy almost sunk the USWNT.

          Pia was criticized before WC-15 for relying on too many has-beens, including injured ones, at the expense of young hopefuls. Those critics were proved right.

          The record books will show that the US won WC-15 and that a number of players got their long lusted after WC and one even got herself a second one. Nevertheless, many of those were surplus to requirement.

          Because the US won, the NWSL grows, which is good for pro-WoSo all around the world.

          At the same time, the fact that the WC final was contested by the 2 oldest teams and that 3 goals was scored by a 33 year old, is hardly music to the ears who want WoSo established as a real sport. Homare Sawa was a couple of months short of her 33d birthday when she captained Japan to WC-11 victory and she was the oldest player for Japan.

  • Evevic

    Go away and take Donald Trump with you!

    • Steglitz49

      Trump the Duck, I say.

  • ladywing

    I think she would very much like the trolls that have plagued her for years, ignoring her contributions, to forget her.
    But that’s just me.

    • Steglitz49

      There is a troll or two trolls who has made denigrating comments about at least one WoSo players on two different articles but we are not many who have called him out and/or voted him down.

      Sad to say, the offending comments have not been withdrawn.

      • ladywing

        The number of denigrating remarks directed to Abby are legion and are much more then not liking the way she plays.
        I think personal attacks on any player have no place in any commentary.
        And yes, I am speaking about calling people cows or wanting to see them naked. Those things have nothing to do with the sport.

        • Steglitz49

          If 50 commentators voted them down and wrote a simple request for the offender to withdraw their remark, then the moderator will be forced to take action — at least on those unequivocally offensive.

          At the same time, WoSo players who pose in the nude and go to weddings instead of playing semi-finals for their teams must grin and bear it.

  • Anson

    Kein problem!

  • mockmook

    Can’t wait until some company gets really bold and has a player advert campaign “FU”.

    • AlexH

      Bold? Maybe last century, but the F-train has left the station decades ago.

      • mockmook

        But, there are new vistas ahead…

        Alex Morgan:

        You don’t think I represent in my Nike gear the way I should? You don’t think I can hit the broad side of a barn anymore? FU.

        I put a’s in the seats. I write books for kids. What have you done? FU.

        Nike pays me out the wazoo. Nike knows winners. Nike knows me. FU.
        …….

        NIKE. WE WANT WINNERS. FU.

        • HOFCToDi

          2012 Summer Olympic Games

          youtube.com/watch?v=8TTVF3_3JBU

          Heather O’Reilly with a game winning cross.

        • AlexH

          OK I’s sold, now FU.

        • NYRick

          I like it.

        • guest

          more like alex morgan has ghost writers write her books for kids.

          • Guest

            That is the case for almost every well known person who writes a book not to mention all of the editors.

          • mockmook

            I doubt that Alex doesn’t write her books, she seems genuinely interested in them, genuinely moved to write them.

        • dw

          #FUin90

    • Ethan

      Well, wasn’t there the Haters gonna hate ad with Rodriguez, Suarez, and co? Along those lines?

  • HOFCToDi

    Time to close calendar year 2015 and look forward to calendar year 2016.

    Top Drawer Soccer
    College Soccer Player Rankings – National
    Women’s National Top 100

    topdrawersoccer.com/college/upperclassmentop100/?genderId=f&periodId=35&seasonId=2015&nopage=0

    • Steglitz49

      It must be marvelous to be able to go to college and play soccer at the highest level with good coaches. Some will have at least a pratial scholarship too.

      I wonder whether the ranking shows a changing US WoSo landscape? The first Stanford player is at #6, USC at #9, Rutgers at #18 & 20, while the first Tar Heel at #24 and berkeley at #19 & 25.

      Also, there are 2 Canadians, one at #2 (an international) and #17, both black and there are also 2 black American ladies in the top 20. #1 is the young lady who plays for Costa Rica.

  • newsouth

    Forgot about you when you were still playing. Bye again since you were gone after you scored all those tomato can goals against South Korea and wouldn’t leave the game as a final farewell, just kept playing for more selfish goals.

  • Steglitz49

    We now have more comments than Abby has NT goals. That must mean something to the numerologists among the commentators.

  • dw

    I will say, as a critic of lots of Abby-dom (including that horrible post-game interview on the field) that I could not agree MORE with her on her statements on JK and the state of USMNT. I was pissed about the exclusion of Don Ovan at the time, but taking another look at it from this perspective and listening to her interview, makes me pissed all over again. Not that I didn’t think about it at the time, but this just made it that much more clear. JK’s opinion that the 80th best player from a European country has to be better than anyone born here, and his specific exclusion of the best US-born player ever in preference to those types of players, sucks. Abby knows it, and I know it, and for some strange reason I’m glad to be on the same side (no matter how indirect) for once.

    Just imagine an alternate reality where Birgit Prinz is hired as USWNT coach, and the entire team becomes European-born players with American grandparents. Then Alex and Press get excluded from WWC19… (No offense to Prinz or any Europeans intended. Heck, for all I know, I’d probably say that Prinz would probably be a better coach than Ellis. HOFTroll would blindly defend Ellis using ALL CAPS. Rick would have a nervous breakdown. Mockmook would post formations showing where all our new dual-passport players would play. Steg would quote the population of Germany, and talk about biathlon and white teddy bears. But I digress. Dangerous things, those alternate realities).

    • NYRick

      This is what makes dw a great poster. He comes on with material! He does his homework and offers both critical thought and the injection of wit.

      BTW I am totally in your court on the critique of JK regarding the over-influx of foreign players with the pseudo US grandparents etc. for the men’s team. I think you nailed it with the 80th best player from a country line. I mean it’s not like we are getting a Mario Goetz with the US parent from Germany. Instead, we are getting the Timmy Chandlers and the vastly overrated professional dive master and complainer, Jermaine Joneses of the world. And for spite JK left off the best US born player ever on last year’s WC roster when it seemed he still had a little left in the tank. I like the Bruce Arena line, “if we have 23 players better than LD than the US should win the WC.”

      Happy holidays and Merry Christmas to you and your family.

      • guest

        “if we have 23 players better than LD than the US should win the WC”
        Brilliant! How does JK hang around so long? There are plenty of other questions you could ask US Soccer, like who was responsible for the Hawaiian debacle, and why was nobody fired? And who scheduled all the friendlies on turf anyway?

      • dw

        Happy and safe holidays to you and yours, as well, Rick. Thanks for the kind words.

        Maybe some beep tests and battle rope after the holidays, too. We’ll need our “A” game for 2016. Starting with IRE and the much-anticipated return of Stephanie Roche (the biggest one-hit wonder since Dexys Midnight Runners). Then OG quallies. Then USAlgarve. Rio… Hmm… maybe I should hit the gym now and get a head start.

        • NYRick

          Now you’ve gone and put the ultimate ear buzz in my head, “Come on Eileen” (a great song and one that you can’t sing along and be happy when you hear it). But now it will be with me for a good 3 days, thanks.

          Yep, 2016 should be some fun. “A” game is coming. If only to simply ward off HOFD since he has declared WWIII on me. If only the dude would realize that we are talking WoSo here and nothing of real consequence. But that would be asking a lot.

          • dw

            Why should we have all the enjoyment?

            Call it my holiday gift to Equalizer…
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASwge9wc-eI

          • dw

            So in that light, Happy and safe holidays to everybody! To those that I agree with, and those I don’t, and Steg, who some of the time I just don’t understand, but nevertheless enjoy the discussion, all of the time.

          • Steglitz49

            Thank you. A merry Christmas to you too.

          • mockmook
          • guest

            Well since Máire is Siobhan’s (of Bananarama) sister, Bananarama’s “Cruel Summer” for Stephanie Roche’s spell in Houston.

          • Steglitz49

            Her FAWSL1 team, Sunderland, stayed up as I remember it.

            At least Steph got to go tot hat knees-up in Zurich, be noticed by Messi and CR7 — and got to model a whole host oc clothes.

            Life goes on.

          • dw

            Full disclosure, A-ha and Nena were in the running. There, that should help.

          • NYRick

            Please not 99 Luft Balloons. I beg of you. Please.

          • dw

            Maybe weltmeister would have approved.

          • NYRick

            Nice. But maybe more appropriate for Weltmeister would be:
            Falco (der kommissar).

            It also got me thinking to some one-hit wonders of the era as it may pertain to US players:

            For a get well soon for Pinoe:
            Till Tuesday (Voices Carry). Incredible searing and emotional vocal by Aimee Mann, and the bright spikey blonde hair reminds me of Pinoe.

            For CP since she is often accused of too timid play:
            Kajagoogoo (Too Shy).

            In honor of the upcoming Concacaf Qualifiers:
            Wall of Voodoo (Mexican Radio).

            And for the continual spin we all give to this US team:
            Dead or Alive (You Spin Me Round).

            Anyone care to add a few?

          • dw

            Classic (Press especially).
            I’m also going to give der Kommissar to JK.
            Tobin and her freestyle moves get her A-ha’s “Take on Me” or “Bust a Move”
            Lady Andrade “Kung fu Fighting”.
            Broon “Heart and Soul” by T’Pau
            And for all us pessimists on Equalizer “Don’t Worry, Be Happy”

          • NYRick

            For “Kung fu Fighting” I might give that one to KO too for her karate kick poke goal in the Germany semi.

            And in honor of the US beating Germany in the biggest match of 2015 how about LL Cool J’s (Mama Said Knock You Out).

          • Steglitz49

            Kling could get “Stand by your line”

          • Steglitz49

            Seeing that “A-ha” is a Norwegian band, we could add ABBA’s classic “Take chance on me” to give the other Vikings a chance.

          • guest

            MC Hammer “Can’t Touch This”
            With all apologies to Rick, the two just seem to fit.

          • guest

            For Christen Press, “Borderline” by Madonna which includes the line “feels like I’m going to lose my mind.”

        • Steglitz49

          US WoSo’s perennial problem? A player hits the neon lights but the team can’t cultivate her success. Alex is the exception that proves the rule.

          Stephanie’s wardrobe made headlines though, including at that knees-up in Zürich.

          • dw

            She wasn’t good enough to make the starting XI in HOU. I don’t think that has anything to do with a US WoSo problem.

          • Steglitz49

            She came second for the Puskas award and if a few more women had voted for her, she would have won it.

            Not bad from a country with less inhabitants than Houston.

    • ARED

      This is probably the best post I’ve seen on this sight, due mostly to the spot on breakdown of fellow posters in your hypothetical reality….lol. So “I want to give you a big compliment” for that. (A Klinnsman-ism you may appreciate).

      As for the soccer, I actually defended JK when he took some risks to bring in new blood to the USA at the expense of Bocanegra and Co., even though it brought a few bad results. Everyone seemed to lose their minds, but the US was always going to qualify for the WC so for me that was the time to make changes. But it blew my mind how JK convinced himself, Gulati, the media, and apparently a decent amount of US fans, that Donovan being left off the team was anything other than an insane (or personal) move which warranted his dismissal. If I was Gulati I would have fired him that day (of course I never would have given him the 2 WC guaranteed contract either). Nevermind the fact that he also played a brand new formation for the first time in the final friendly (or maybe it was the 2nd to last?) before Brazil. Again, there is a time and a place for changes and experiments….

      JK made his best players worse (Dempsey, Donovan, Bradley). He made moves based on personal grudges (Donovan). And repeatedly claimed, with a straight face, that Brad Davis (and Wondo, Green, Bedoya, Zusi, etc) were better players would could help the US more in Brazil than LD. I have tried over and over to see how American fans seem to forget/forgive these facts, but I just cannot see it.

      • dw

        Thank you also for the kind words.
        After I wrote this, I said to myself: “Self, it’s a good thing you are a bigger fan of WoSo and USWNT than MNT. Because as critical you are of WNT, there aren’t enough hours in the day for all the criticism of MNT you could muster.” JK with his “Americans can’t play the game and American fans can’t understand the game attitude”. Yeah, I’d have never hired that guy either. I should stop now, I can feel my blood pressure redlining…

        • ARED

          You’re welcome, and again I agree. Aside from actual coaching decisions, his general aura of arrogance and his penchant to always be talking -on and on, and usually saying nothing (or else insulting his new country and it’s league) -were the “insult to injury” factors for me. In 2009 I thought the USA had a very good chance to return to the WC Quarterfinal or perhaps even a Semi over the next 3-4 tournaments. Now, despite the growing player pool and development of MLS Academies, I would hesitate to say the same.

          • mockmook

            I think the expanding pipeline of new USA broso talent will eventually overwhelm any poor coaching.

          • dw

            Again, my critical nature shows through. We don’t know to what extent JK’s anti-American sentiments are also felt by Gulati. I think that it’s more than people think. Why else would he let this crappy attitude and “player development” scheme stick around in the face of mediocre at best results? So if these clowns think alike, then all that BroSo talent of which you speak will know exactly how the young WoSo talent feels. They won’t be able to get into the MNT squad, except it will be for a different, although still stupid, reason. Instead of veterans locking up the roster spots, it’ll be dual-passport players.

          • mockmook

            I’m talking l–o–n–g term (assuming that soccer continues to gain popularity in the USA).

          • Steglitz49

            It will. Don’t worry. Not least if Zlatan comes over for a couple of seasons.

          • Steglitz49

            It is easy to forget that JK’s coaching career was not exactly stellar before the USMNT hired him. His Germany went out in the SF on home grass against Italy (0-2, from memory) in WC-06.

            JK’s predecessor Rudi Voeller took a weak German team all the way to the WC-02 final, admittedly with a lot of luck along the way, which Americans probably remember. They only lost 0-2 in the final against Brazil and neither 2-5 nor 1-7.

            It was JK’s assistant, Jogi Loew, who coached the NT to the WC win.

          • Steglitz49

            We could help Gulati by opening a list of alternatives to JK. You could say that JK was Gulati’s trial run and that he got it right with JE.

            He seems to like given names starting with a J. Thus, Jogi Löw could be a candidate while Jack Charlton is too old.

            The obvious candiate is probably Lars Lagerbäck but that is too obvious a choice. Maybe hand the reins to Zlatan?

          • dw

            That’s what happens when all your player development money is going to your scout teams staying at 5 star resorts throughout Europe instead of hosting training camps, clinics, and scouting at home.

    • Steglitz49

      Biathlon is a huge spectator sport in Europe and this season 2 world cup meetings will be in north-America: Feb 3-7 in Canmore in Canada and 10-14 in Presque Isle in Maine. It has been a while since the biathlon world cup was in either the US or Canada so this is your chance.

      In men’s soccer it seems that as long as you have a population base >15 million, you can do OK at WC level. Countries with less only occasionally make the WC these days, except from the weaker confederations.

      I don’t know what the white teddy bear thinks but I would again remind readers of the EQ that it was Jack Charlton who was the first head coach that made systematic use of the eligibility rules. He took the Irish MNT to rank #6 in the world. It was around the time that Stephanie Roche was born.

  • Gregory Lashley

    Abby didn’t deserve to be on the World Cup team. It is not a lifetime achievement award. She took a spot that a better player should have been given. It is a travesty to have allowed her on the team. She was a great player and she had her chances. This is the opposite side of the coin to what happened to Landon Donovan the year before. He was arguably USA’s first, second or third best player and he was left out because Jurgen Klinnsman had decided that winning wasn’t in the cards and “let’s play for the next cup”. Both decisions were the wrong one.